Martyr Mafia - Game Over

[Jahudo]

Vote: Jebus

because he is clearly the Muslim or Jewish cult leader.

[Jahudo]

OMG, Jahudo just claimed Christian Leader!

Only if I can be Reverend Lowery from Obama's inauguration. That guy was cool.

Maybe the G in DrippingGoofball stands for DrippingGodball? It makes so much sense I have to

unvote

Vote: DGB

[Jahudo]

Bolded the above. Am I the only one who caught this and was wondering about it?

How about you say what you believe? I think he's probably just talking setup plans like the rest of us instead of contemplating how to use his role. And the =P is obv WIFOM.

But this bears more notice to me:

I would rather assume that I will be converted then attempt to lynch god.

Sounds like someone is playing for the win condition is hopes to have, not the one he has. At least that's what he's trying to tell us.

[Jahudo]

unvote, Vote: Zakeri

Am I the only one who caught this and was wondering about it?

How about you say what you believe?

Sometimes I feel like Jebus doesn't answer my prayers

[Jahudo]

Zakeri is scummy for thinking that Jebus was speculating on who has the role Nietzsche.

Wait, do you believe that? Because you're voting for Jebus now for being unclear but you also said he's possibly speculating. What's the difference between you and Zakeri?

[Jahudo]

vote: Drippinggoofball

Notice how the scum drops a serious vote for a joke one when pressure is applied to him.

unvote

Vote: Zakeri

[Jahudo]

Jahudo's WIFOM (letting christian out), is far to obvious.

It was a joke because Jebus sounds like Jesus who Jews/Muslims would only worship ironically.

[Jahudo]

DGB: You're right! I'm the islam cult leader. Lynch me now!

This just sounds sarcastic but maybe he's trying to distract us from bigger scum.

I still like my vote on Zakeri for trying to brush-off suspicion by returning to random voting.

[Jahudo]

I'm not anybody, I was being sarcastic. Please don't kill me!

That doesn't mean you're not scum, because you will be anti-town if you don't play seriously when it calls for it. Basically, IGMEOY.

[Jahudo]

Mod: Sipylus hasn't posted yet. He's the only one.

[Jahudo]

The fact that zwetschen tried to distract us during Zakeri suspicions with nonsense and now mask man is trying to discredit the Zakeri case with nonsense only makes me think we've found god or a cult leader.

Moar votes please.

[Jahudo]

and now mask man is trying to

discredit

the Zakeri case with nonsense

How did he do this? He made his snide comment again your info-diving, not your case against Zakeri. Just because it dealt with Zakeri, it has nothing to do with the accusations against Zakeri. You are finding connections where none exist.

Because Jebus is trying to apply pressure to Zakeri by calling her lie and mask man is discrediting Jebus' question by limiting and immaturing its purpose.

[Jahudo]

There's no lying in that statement. I understand why Jebus wanted to know, as any information that Zakeri gleaned from all the attacks on him could help the entire town. However, mask man is wise in limiting Jebus' request, as it could just as easily be fishing. He was just immature about it.

I was talking about the inconsistency X explained in post 149 but I looked at it again and I agree with you, she didn't say a lie. It was the way she went from saying she was random voting for reactions to saying she didn't know what reactions she expected to make me think the reactions were not important.

I don't think the way mask man went about twisting Jebus's post was town though, and how is that fishing if your asking someone to state their case? Wouldn't Zakeri need to explain her reaction notes if she voted based on them? She can wait until reactions are over but this doesn't sound like fishing.

[Jahudo]

If I read it correctly, she wasn't thinking about reactions at all, not that she didn't know what reactions to expect.

Agreed. On the surface he is stating the latter is true, but since the results and implications of these reactions were not part of his motivation to change his vote, I think that either:

A) he was not looking for reactions but instead getting his way out of a serious situation to a non-serious one, or
B) he wouldn't think about the effects until after the experiment and also not care about suspicion he received because townies aren't afraid of being under suspicion.

So if/when he does have a case for these reactions his motivation may become clearer.

And in the meantime: VOTE: ZACHARI

Double A, is this vote a joke or do you think he is scum? If so, why? If not, why?

DGB is scum. AMIRITE, AMIRITE?

How so?

And how can I get the FoS in a game without scum?

God and cults are scum in this game.

MOD: PROD INACTIVES

All you've done is call zwetchen stupid so you're not exactly active either. What else do you have to say?

[Jahudo]

Just look at pacman's total contribution. Only 3 posts so far. But already, there's a pattern that is unusual for him.

Actually from my experience that is pretty typical of pacman. I'm all for putting him into the spotlight until he does something though.

Still waiting for Zakeri's post.

[Jahudo]

I'm God! Lynch me now!

Are you f***ing serious?

Don't be suicidal, get replaced. Don't ruin this game please

My first impression here is that Jebus is tired of people claiming scum like it's a joke, which can ruin a game to some extent. Since the first day is so important here I can understand why someone doesn't want to see careless play become an easy mislynch. I can't tell from this quote if Jebus knows anything about zwets alignment, but I don't think that's the case. It looks normal, if frustrated, to me.

[Jahudo]

Frustrated would be correct.
Will say more when I get a good chunk of time.

Do you have the time to go into detail about this?

And pacman continues to lurk. I'm telling you folks. pacman is God. I caught him.

Pacman needs to talk because if he’s not scum he’s proving that scum can hide under the radar.

unvote, vote Jebus

Qwints’s last 3 posts have been vote changes and no explanation of his own although the last quoted ortolan’s reasons. Apart from that he had 1 post where he actually gave sentences but they were theory and speculation. So far he is looking like opportunistic scum but I’d expect this more from a recruit because it doesn’t show the responsibility of being in charge of your own win condition that keeps you from being a one dimensional player.

how town is too town? When the player clearly is making an effort to seem town, which jebus was doing.
…which wasn't really needed because obv attention will be shifted like that…
…If he toned the "WTF DUN U CLAIM GAWDZ0R" down to a "dude, wtf?" or something, it wouldn't be like this.

I understand what you are saying about scum wanting to appear townie, but making an effort to be town is only scummy to me if they’re also not playing pro-town. If zwet ends up getting lynched on any day, I think part of the case against him will inevitably be his joking-not-contributing posts. So it is in the interest of the town to not give scum more chances to inflate a zwet case if he’s town. So I still don’t mind his reaction to zwet’s God claim.

So I have to ask the people on the Zakeri wagon: did you have legitimate reasons to vote Zakeri aside from just joining the wagon?

One reason for me was in feeling that he didn’t have a tactic when he switched back to random voting but after he did, he said he had a tactic. I’m still waiting to hear more about this tactic because he’s been quiet about it. His recent inactivity is making my vote feel comfortable.

Calm down. It's clear that Jebus is being bus'ed. Jebus' statement was perfectly fine and innocuous. However, his buddies want to distance themselves from Jebus by making totally bogus cases. I'm helping them along with my vote.

Do you have any reason apart from being distanced to think Jebus is scum?

[Jahudo]

For the most part I don't have a problem with how zwet answered Jebus's long list of suspicions. He actually had some good answers. These are the only points I'm not sure about:

DGB is trying to lynch me with no good reason. That's why. FoS: DGB and Double A

h)g was the DGB reason, and Double A looked a little too noobish to not put some suspicion on him.

How was he "too noobish" and why does that require suspicion?

I'm guessing agnostic, as he seems quite harmless... "Guchi gugu. Good baby. Pwetty AIIIGH!!! The #$%$#@ baby bit my $#!@$% finger!"

i)I realized Double A was a noob, and posted that I believed that he probably was an agnostic still getting the feel of the game and learning stuff. The second half was a joke.

Why did you switch from thinking his inexperience was a scum tell to a town tell? Also I think calling him a child is ad hom even though you aren't attacking him, you are setting it up so his arguments are discredited because he's a newbie.

[Jahudo]

Is it just me(I'm sure it is), or have I been skipping over all of Double A's posts?

He's had 8 total posts, mostly a sentence or two, last one was last Thursday. Nearly all his contribution has been to ask newbie questions. Zwet's explanation seems to fit with how Double A's acted.

[Jahudo]

I have this stupid paper do for the Model UN thing they tricked me into joining for.

Are you switzerland, because you sure aren't taking a side!

I agree with EA. Zakeri still hasn't explained his gambit after a dozen pages or so. I get the feeling he likes to lurk.

[Jahudo]

I'm confused about how to go on here.

Then just God-hunt. Do you think cult leaders are bussing/distancing or ignoring God? Do you think God is vocal or lurking? State a theory and see who matches that description.

Because right now I'm more than willing to believe a rational God would stay under the radar unless prompted to speak or they can safely latch on to a discussion that does not call too much attention to them. I think cult leaders will not bus their god but safely distance when the spotlight is on someone else making a distraction. So Zakeri and pacman are a few people that fit my idea of God.

[Jahudo]

Post I still want a response to. - This goes for everyone, I'm not questioning just zwet here.

How does this go for everyone? You want us all to answer for zwet?

[Jahudo]

Anyway... either Jebus or Zakerai is going to be our scapegoat. More than likely one if not both of them are agnostic.

Why?

[Jahudo]

Occam's razor to the rescue, pacman is god.

Have you read or played another game with pacman in it?

Because there is 1 role in 20 that we don't want him to claim, and 1 role in 5 that we do.

QFT. Claims wouldn't mean anything to me in this game because there's no pro-town PR that should ever ever ever claim.

[Jahudo]

Jahudo posts, but I can't seem to remember his position on anyone other than that he has his vote on zakeri.

I’ll help you out. I’ve said that zwet, quints, and mask man look like recruits to me. Zwet and mask man were distracting early on, qwints looked opportunistic on votes. Zwet’s play looks better recently but maybe I’m just getting used to his short and frequent posting style.

I don’t like Double A’s contribution but I’ll give him a tinsy bit of slack for being new and pressure him to contribute more often and more analysis. Pacman I don’t like his posts either but I know he gets like this in all the games I've played with him, and pressuring might be the only way to figure out an alignment from him. Right now I have no idea on a Double A or Pacman alignment.

I can’t remember Indigo or Tornado doing anything which is bad because I think scum might try to get away with lurking and hope the town will only lynch someone who has posted something scummy and not waste our best lynch day on a no read. Zachattack has been lurking lately too and a good some of his posts were IIOA and maybe 1 early opportunistic jump on a wagon, so he could be scum too.

[Jahudo]

My case for pacman being Gos is still valid.

My meta question on pacman is still valid. Have you seen or played a game with him where he didn't lurk and avoid scumhunting?

[Jahudo]

If this is the first day, why is the discussion so deep, and why haven't we all jumped on to one bandwagon and voted for him? (or her)

Today is by far the best chance to win the game as an agnostic.

@Pacman: I hope you don't think I'm giving you a free pass just because I say you're following the town meta I have on you. We need unity here.

I still think Zakeri should not be ignored until he explains himself. It seems like a small tell now but he has gone into lurking since getting put under pressure and that doesn't feel right.

[Jahudo]

Jahudo, who's your second pick behind zakeri?

I mentioned a pool of suspects here: here. I think god will stick to active lurking and IIOA like Double A, pacman and zachattack need some encouragement to post more. So I could support a wagon on one of them until zakeri is replaced.

Pacman needs to post opinion on everybody because right now all I can infer is how he's lurking compared to other games and that's not a good enough tell for me.

unvote;

Vote: pacman

[Jahudo]

Sure. It's hard to categorize top pics because I think some people are scummier but less likely to be the 1 scum we want to kill today. I see it more as a process of eliminating possible gods and we might need some big wagons to do that.

[Jahudo]

He's much more lurkish than Pacman is, and add to that the slight difference in meta--qwints is usually more useful than this.

Does he usually post more often or have bigger posts? I haven't liked his lurking, it looks like a recruit who isn't looking for other scum at the very least. But he could be god in the same way pacman could be god and its hard to tell if they just don't aren't playing to an agnostic win condition and why not.

[Jahudo]

unvote;
Vote: qwints

Let's get some stronger bandwagons going. It's the town thing to do.

[Jahudo]

The town thing to do, Jahudo? I don't feel you.

So in the future we can look back on all the wagons and find connections.

[Jahudo]

I don't see how SP "outed" himself as scum and I don't see how anyone could get to that interpretation from that quote.

mm... if you have nothing to say, don't spam. Every thing you say can be used against you (as now).

Interesting. It sounds like pacman wants zwet to shut up before he says too much and gets killed.

Means unless you've got something to contribute/question, don't post.

I feel that we're giving some lurkers a free pass this way. There's a bunch of people who could be scum but we wouldn't know because they only have a few posts that are mostly fluff.

[Jahudo]

This still feels like alot of chatter. The Deadline is in 4 days people.

Everyone should restate the reason(s) they are voting for whoever. Everyone should start to think of second and third choices too because as of the last vote count we have 10 different people being voted.

I'm voting for Qwints because:
1. He's posting very infrequently in this game while posting much more often in other games.
2. He jumped on 3 wagons in three consecutive posts without adding any opinion of his own.
3. Post 497 looks like he's dismissing the Zakeri wagon only because "God wouldn't be the first one suspected". He doesn't give a reason for why this is probably and I don't see any reason why this is probable.
4. Post 516 he responded to a prod by making a baseless speculation on Jebus.

My backup choices are Zakeri, pacman, and Double A probably in that order.

Let's go! Chop chop!!

[Jahudo]

I'm still pretty sure that Jebus knows who god actually is

You've said this twice now. Can you elaborate on why you think this? Who do you think god is if you are assuming that Jebus knows who god is?

I don't like your reasoning for voting zwets. Why is god more likely to be an annoying poster?

[Jahudo]

Less than 3 Days until deadline and I checked through the voting changes.

Something caught my eye:

And I'm seeing, plain as the sun, distancing from Jebus.
unvote, vote: Jebus

Suddenly I want to lynch Jebus.
unvote, vote: Jebus

DGB those are your last two vote changes. Why did you unvote only to revote Jebus?

I think 4 people aren't voting on anybody: Zakeri, mask_man, Double A and xofelf. Who are your top 2 or 3 choices at this time?

The top wagon is qwints with 6 votes. In second with 3 votes is Jebus. In third is Zakeri with 2 votes. Four people have 1 vote on them (DGB, xofelf, Double A, and zwets).

Who strongly opposes the qwints wagon now?

[Jahudo]

I, for one, strongly oppose the qwints wagon.

unvote, vote: qwints

Why did you unvote only to revote Jebus?

[Jahudo]

habit

The momentum of the qwints wagon look legit to me. And 0 the 3 people I have picked as his CL are on his wagon, which is good. Let's see if they make any attempt to bail you out though.

[Jahudo]

Zakeri
Last game post: Feb 13
Recent mafia game posts: Once on Feb 18, Twice on Feb 13

Mask man
Last game post: Feb 13
Recent mafia game posts: None

Erratus Apathos
Last game post: Feb 15
Recent mafia game posts: Once on Feb 18, Four times on Feb 17, Once on Feb 16

I think everyone else has posted in the last three days. Mask flaked and Zakeri is just a lurker everywhere. EA bothers me a little bit but he's posted some content throughout the day.

[Jahudo]

I'm going to go ahead and admit that I am culted.

Are you saying you're a Cult Recruit?

DGB is the only decent wagon remaining. None of her posts look legitimately reasoned at all.

This case looks very good. I want to hear DGB's response and also her response to my question:

DGB: Why did you vote Jebus when you already had your vote on him?

And I'm seeing, plain as the sun, distancing from Jebus.
unvote, vote: Jebus

Suddenly I want to lynch Jebus.
unvote, vote: Jebus

Zakeri, pacman, and DGB are all possible places for my vote if qwints confirms being Cult Recruit.

[Jahudo]

unvote

Bloodmoney's question makes me think he's also in a cult. God obviously doesn't care who's in who's cult.

QFT.

[Jahudo]

You guys are probably right about there not being enough time.

qwints is at L-2 right now. Nobody else is close.

[Jahudo]

Vote: qwints

to L-1

[Jahudo]

It's possible god would vote qwints to distance from him.

It's possible that qwints distanced from god or his recruit, but that might be more likely closer to the deadline when he looked like the solid lynch candidate and his words wouldn't be trusted by people who think he's scum.

He probably wouldn't want to bus someone too hard during the middle of the day or if the wagon was growing pretty big or had the potential to grow. I think it's possible he could have distanced from god or his recruit early in the day though.

Taking a look at qwints's PbPA there are a few key points:

0. random votes Jebus
2. jumps on Zakeri's wagon
3. jumps on zwetschenwasser's wagon (as a joke proly)
4. jumps on Jebus' wagon using someone else's reasons
5. unvotes without really explaining
7. says "Jebus and zwet are probably scum"
8. minor suspicion on EA, WIFOM on Zakeri's wagon (which he was on and didn't explain why he left)
9. more Jebus and zwet suspicion
10. more Jebus and zwet suspicion. Zwet vote
11. more Jebus suspicion. Jebus vote
15. Bloodmoney suspicion
16. DGB suspicion (unreasoned?)
18. Jebus suspicion
19. Jebus suspicion
21. Jebus suspicion

Okay, so Jebus is one big pile of WIFOM right now. Zwets too but not as much. Qwints could be hoping that we will discredit the Jebus case because a cult leader wanted us to lynch Jebus, or he could be hoping that we credit the Jebus lynch because we think he's distancing from god.

What's also interesting is that Jebus and Zwet seemed interchangeable to Qwints in terms of who he should suspect. But he abandons Zwet near the end and the WIFOM is lessened a bit.

The Zakeri vote and then subsequent WIFOM is also interesting. Zakeri called qwints "opportunistic" for his vote. Qwints switched to another target like he did other times without saying what that does to his suspicion on the previous vote. But how did he come to this conclusion after voting for Zakeri:

There are a lot more players in the game than just Zakeri. Would God really have been the first player run up so fast?

Granted, the wagon was early and Zakeri STILL hasn't fully defended against it, but this quote is probably the only instance where qwints says he doesn't suspect someone.

This is enough to make me want to continue pressuring Zakeri to contribute to this game and explain what reactions he was looking for and what reactions he got way back when he switched from a serious wagon to a joke one.

Vote: Zakeri

[Jahudo]

Also, the fact God didn't night-kill Jebus last night (i.e. because he already knows he's not Nietzsche despite qwints tipping him off) means he's pretty much guaranteed to be a cult leader.

That makes sense.

I already explained why cult leaders busing God (not the other way round, though) makes no sense. If the cult leader ever dies they've lost anyway, plus if they get God lynched by busing them they've lost. So no, they have no reason to bus God.

True. I think there might be some safe distancing but we need to determine at what point qwints wagon became serious and then inevitable as a lynch. Same goes for the people qwints voted.

7 people didn't vote for qwints: (Zakeri, mask man, Double A, Indigo Heron, Ting =), populartajo, al_kohaulec)

6 of those people were completely ignored by qwints: (mask man, Double A, Indigo Heron, Ting =), populartajo, al_kohaulec)

2 of those people completely ignored qwints: (Double A, populartajo)

al_kohaulec "HAMMAH'ed" qwints but really the hammer had already happened. He didn't show any sign of suspecting qwints before that post and in fact said he didn't understand the wagon in post 680. His late fake-hammer could be an attempt to look town after the damage was already done. It is the best example of possible distancing I see here.

Out of Double A, tajo and alcoholic I think alcoholic looks like a very possible God.

[Jahudo]

Yay! Day two!



So we got the Christian, well at least there is one less cult to worry about.

Why did you ignore qwints day 1?

Notice the number of the word "god" in this post.

I'm more concerned with the way he talked about god, how he was excited about the lynch when previously he never acknowledged qwints, and how he voted qwints even though someone had hammered. I wonder if that still counts as bussing if he's god?

[Jahudo]

A mistake that some scum tend to make is saying a lot of "if I were ____,..." statements to get their opinion across, basically meaning that they are more likely to be ____ because they have to go about mentioning it every two sentences since they want to tell you, but obviously can't.

Wait, scum wants to tell people they're scum?

Also, considering that God killed EA last night, I'm now more inclined to believe that Jebus is CL. This is still dependent on if qwints was telling the truth, which I put at 33% (that he is truthful). He was spewing quite a bit of lies near the end, so I'm taking his revelations with a grain of salt. But since any lead is a lead for God, the fact that he didn't kill Jebus makes the possible role list: agnostic, CL, recruit, Nietzsche (in that order).

If Jebus is agnostic that would mean qwints didn't try and recruit him but just picked Jebus out of a hat, or saw the suspicion on Jebus earlier and picked him for that. So if Jebus isn't cult then why didn't God kill him? How did God know qwints was lying about trying to recruit Jebus?

If qwints was telling the truth, Jebus is probably a CL because otherwise he'd be nightkilled I think.

[Jahudo]

I didn't have a good reason for switching to my joke vote other than to show that I believed my vote on Jebus was no longer needed. Reaction fishing is just the reason I use for when I do something stupid because otherwise I'd get voted off the island for doing something stupid.

But what about the reactions you said you were gathering? Can you go back and explain what you found?

I can see very well why Qwints would say that I was failed to be recruited by him without actually knowing whether or not he was lieing about it. First, it would definitely make me lynchbait if I wasn't killed

Not likely. God wants to kill Nietsche as early as he can. If a CL says someone wasn't recruitable, and God knows that person is not another CL, then God would want to see if they are Nietsche. Why would the CL lie to God like that? Qwints said he wanted God to win because in effect it would seem like Qwints won too, so Qwints was trying to out Nietsche. Why did he fail?

Wait, what if God killed one cult and his son killed the other one IN THE SAME NIGHT?

What do you mean by God killing cult? Who is the son?

To claim recruit is the only thing that has potential to stop a lynch--a recruit, while anti-town, takes only one player away from the pro-God groups, which is not worth lynching for.

In contrast: when he claimed Jebus as the failed recruit he had already lost everything, the lynch was sealed, and there was no reason he wouldn't try to give God a heads-up.

QFT on all that.

Then he changed his mind and claimed cult leader. This is what he did that IMO made him very suspicious, and with the level of votes on him as opposed to any other player, there's no reason to attempt a lynch on another player so close to deadline with nobody else close to being lynched.

So you hammered because it was close to deadline and you wanted the lynch to go through? And it was the CL claim that you found most suspicious about him?

I also mentioned that I hadn't read everything yet, I was still on page 15.

At what points in the game were you still on page 15 in reading? How much had you read when qwints claimed CL? How much had you read by the time you hammered?

If we take Jebus and quints to be true, then two cults tried to recruit him the same night, and he's currently a recruit in either Jewish or Islamic faiths.

Do you think that God learns of all the recruits? Does anyone think this is true? The role PM on the first page tells that he knows who the CL are but nothing about learning recruits so I don't think he would. If that's true he could just as easily kill a recruit thinking they was Nietsche.

[Jahudo]

Take this scenario: Qwints (Cult Leader A) and Cult Leader B both recruit Jebus night 0. The rules send Jebus to Cult Leader C. Qwints doesn't know why his recruitment failed so he sends a message to God in his dying breath to let God know he might've found Nietsche.

If God doesn't know what Jebus is, wouldn't he try and win the game by killing him?
If God does know what Jebus is, can't he only be another CL or God himself?

[Jahudo]

I think DGB's deliberately playing cult.

I don't follow. Where does she deliberately look like a CL?

[Jahudo]

I don't see the use of arguing whether or not Jebus is lying or not, considering that many weren't going to believe anything he said anyway. Actions speak louder than words unfortunately.

QFT. If qwints was telling the truth Jebus is most likely CL and his reaction is what you'd expect. We aren't lynched CL so it's best to go back to qwints and see who fits the god role.

Going back to Ting's analysis of the qwints wagon, I understand how it's very likely god didn't push the qwints wagon because there's no need to bus before a lynch is presumptive.

I think that god would only need to mention the CL's if he's mentioning alot of the other players too. If god is a lurker and only mentions a small portion of the players, he can certainly get away with ignoring the CL's.

God could be among the hoppers and I think this becomes more likely after the wagon is the presumptive lynch of the day. But god would want a no lynch over a CL lynch even if that meant lurking and talking about irrelevant things.


Qwints Wagon Analysis:

Bloodmoney post 359 – VOTE (L-10)
Jebus post 365 – VOTE (L-9)
Indigo Heron post 572 – VOTE (L-8)
Jahudo post 624 – VOTE (L-7)
Mykonian post 630 – VOTE (L-6)
Zwetschen post 670 – VOTE (L-5)
SilverPhoenix post 686 – VOTE (L-4)
DGB post 687 – VOTE (L-3)
Pacman post 696 – VOTE (L-2)

Mykonian post 705 – UNVOTE (L-3)
Indigo Heron post 706 – UNVOTE (L-4)
Jahudo post 710 – UNVOTE (L-5)

X post 714 – VOTE (L-4)
DGB post 715 – CONFIRM VOTE (L-4)
Xofelf post 716 – VOTE (L-3)
Ortolan post 719 – VOTE (L-2)
Jahudo post 747 – REVOTE (L-1)
Mykonian post 768 – REVOTE (Lynch)

----------
I don't think the unvotes are questionable because qwints first fake claim and then CL claim needed a look to make sure there was a good chance he was lying about being a CL too.

Bloodmoney can't be god, I'm not even entertaining that option because he just kept qwints in the spotlight too early and too long.

Indigo voted pretty early when pressured by Jebus. He disappeared after his unvote so its hard to tell what his motivations were.

mykonian, zwet and phoenix all seemed to help move the wagon at a time when they could have ignored it or pushed something else and they wouldn't be called out for delaying a necessary deadline action or avoiding the obvious scum. They seem like legitimate votes.

DGB seemed more interested in lynching Jebus but If Jebus is another CL, then DGB is definately not god from how the two of them interacted. And she was forceful about getting qwints hammered at deadline.

X, xofelf and ortolan look very unlikely because they kept the momentum going with votes. X and ortolan pushed harder and believed qwints could be lying so they definately don't look like god to me.

xofelf used the deadline as her reason to vote so the intentions look normal even though she didn't really say whether qwints looked scummy.

pacman's L-2 vote had the feel of a deadline vote. There was still a little under 48 hours left but he acted like there was no time to discuss anything, which allowed him to avoid discussing anything. He also hinted that qwints was probably culted and it was too late to vote for someone like DGB. So there is some slight derailment going on there.

Pacman looks the worst out of these people for trying to derail the wagon while not looking obvious about it.

[Jahudo]

nominate pacman for: always V/LA

Who are you to call one-liner fashion annoying? You post alot of one-liners yourself.

Why did you give up on finding scum with 48 hours on day 1 and vote for someone you thought was a cult recruit?
Why were you so happy about the hammer?

Here's some motivation for your re-read:

unvote

Vote: pacman281292

[Jahudo]

Good luck xotelf.

In other news, Jahudo is not God.

Is this because you still think pacman's god?

How did that read go Jebus? What exactly were you reading?

[Jahudo]

Myk does seem to use a lot of hypothetical “If I were god” statements. Is he the only one to do that? I’m not sure.

That change of opinion on lurking as a god tell is very interesting. Myk, what convined you to change your mind?

I've had near-no time to make rereads on last 2 weeks, as I must check on internet cafes.

Hmm, I guess I have to either believe you on this one or not. It explains how you played yesterday.

I have just determined that Zakeri is the lynch for today.

Do you have any new info on him? He’s been lurking lately and needs to post more but I don’t see any new information.

Bloodmoney, why the vote? It looks like it could be a distraction, or a deliberate attempt at distraction. I know he’s not god but that doesn’t mean he’s not scum.

[Jahudo]

Why does Zakeri only have one vote? I wasn't joking, guys.

No one knows why you're voting him.

Why havent we lynched alcoholic yet?

What did you think of alcoholic's defense?

[Jahudo]

Gurgi: please prod Indigo for me.

Why are you singling out Indigo? Gurgi already prodded him plus other people that haven't posted since that prod. Look at X's request for prods.

[Jahudo]

new idea: while day one agnostics were still in a clear majority, this changed day 2.

I think it still is a clear majority. 2 CL, plus 4 max recruits, plus god = 7 people who don't want to find god.

Zakeri is starting to lurk again and I don't like it again. There's a handful of people I'm suspicious of though.

[Jahudo]

Double A is definitely agnostic. Indigo i'm not sure of yet.

[Jahudo]

new idea: while day one agnostics were still in a clear majority, this changed day 2.

I think it still is a clear majority. 2 CL, plus 4 max recruits, plus god = 7 people who don't want to find god.

Zakeri is starting to lurk again and I don't like it again. There's a handful of people I'm suspicious of though.

you missed maskman, that makes 8 against 10

That means almost every agnostic must be on the godwagon to lynch him.

What does maskman have to do with that post?

[Jahudo]

Do you like Alkoholic's defense, Jahudo?

One points I was looking for in possible god tells were people that didn't interact with or suspect qwints early on. Alkoholic replaced in late and still hadn't finished reading by the end of the day so it makes sense that he couldn't suspect qwints until he did. I can also understand his reason for making sure there was a hammer and being happy there was in order to prevent a no lynch. Of course none of this exempts him from possibly being god.

[Jahudo]

He was culted christian right? His only chance of winning is to protect god, and to hope that he gets culted again.

Why do you think this? Day 2 he questioned whether or not there was a christian recruit:

The game is unwinnable for that player, if they exist.

[Jahudo]

What happened to ting? Did he get replaced or is he? It's been 10 days.

[Jahudo]

Again I'm willing to lynch any of the aborted day 1 wagons.

unvote, vote: Jahudo

I never had a wagon on me. That means you're lying. LAL!

So people like DGB, Jebus, Zakeri, zwetschenwasser, ting and bloodmoney are the ones you want to look at if you believe in this strategy.

I have done reading Day 1 and Jahudo is so God.

Read day 2 and give some reasons next time. Thanks for stopping by.

Double A: Maybe you need to start over reading from Day 2 and the quotes will make more sense? Whatever you decide, you need to be more active than this.

[Jahudo]

I'm getting the feeling that this Zakeri wagon is good because it shows who if anyone doesn't want to see pressure on Zak as opposed to the wagon yesterday, but with all the hops I feel that attention is shifting away from legitimately suspicious people, like people who are creating confusion, and I still don't see new scum tells on Zak.

I'm glad I didn't remove my vote. I like mask man's analysis.

But mask man thinks Jebus is god, doesn't he? I'm not Jebus!

[Jahudo]

Exactly. I think dGB is cult.

I agree with zwet.

You two may be right. Keeping her vote on me even though she meant to vote for Jebus might be her way of causing confusion while the real god is being suspected. That means god is either Zak or myk.

Going through DGB's posts:
-She pressured and suspected Zak very lightly but she did vote for him.
-She pressured and suspected Myk much harder but she did not vote for him.

If she was going to distance from god, she would do what she did to myk. If she was going to hop on a not-god wagon, she would do what she did to Zak.

As far as myk goes, he qwints voting patterns looked okay; not the strongest but not the weakest either. His "If I were god statements" don't feel right. His change of opinion on lurking looks bad.

unvote;
Vote: Mykonian

[Jahudo]

Stop messing with my head

[Jahudo]

I can't believe I'm saying this but I like pacman's analysis. He seems grounded and in the game.

I don't know what to think of DGB anymore. Her strategy makes sense for a cult recruit but when half the town is lurking she could be anything just trying to keep us active. Zwet too, except he's def. agnostic.

@Adel: Have you read all of day 1? What do you think of it and people related to qwints?

Mod: Have you prodded Ting recently? If not, can you prod him please?

[Jahudo]

um the fact DGB-cult and Jebus-OBVCULT are on mykonian's wagon is enough reason to pile off it in droves.

Please vote Zakeri and I'll give you candy.

7, now 8, votes and you seem to be the one under pressure.

I still have a concern with your case. Zak voted for pacman and you call it an obvious move. But you also acknowledge that pacman's play was anti-town:

Pacman is too obvious and easy a target (lurking, lacking contributions etc.) and I think Zakeri was taking advantage.

Why would only god do this and not someone who doesn't want to let someone lurk and lack contributions?

Oh, looking for people who DGB has distanced from sounds just dandy.

Can you explain how that's not a good argument if you also think DGB is scum?

More content from Zak, myk, the lurkers (double a, heron, ting, ???), more conclusions and not summary from mask man, and more reading from Adel please.

[Jahudo]

I have a player specific meta against qwints now: he has a scumtell. He, like many players before they learn better, mentions his scum buddy by name in his first post.
This scumtell is quite common for newer players, and is mostly useful in large games where the odds of a person typing another person's name are lower.

link to him naming his scumpartner with one other player in his first post where he names a name

unvote, vote: Jebus

It looks like in that case he labeled one of his buddies as scum but only devotes 1 sentence to that, then has a couple paragraphs where he suspects half the town. If that thinktank guy died would qwints have died? Because I think distancing is different when it involves cults and lovers.

And if Jebus is a CL we don't want to lynch him. I think it's a good bet he is because I still think he was asking god to kill someone he thought was Neitsche.

Why do I get two points for him saying happy birthday? I think as a fluff post that's a null tell.

[Jahudo]

I don't understand her point distribution.

[Jahudo]

new idea: while day one agnostics were still in a clear majority, this changed day 2.

I think it still is a clear majority. 2 CL, plus 4 max recruits, plus god = 7 people who don't want to find god.

Zakeri is starting to lurk again and I don't like it again. There's a handful of people I'm suspicious of though.

I deny that I am lurking again. There wasn't really been much update when I checked yesterday

I have found and looked over the case on Mykon and it's well written. I'd like to see something better from Myk though, since his defence was pretty weak. And then there's X's recent catch, which really bothers me.

It's been 9 days and you're back to lurking. You want to hear something more from Myk, well me too, but I want to hear what you think beyond something bothers you and something is well written. I can't tell where you stand on who is god.

[Jahudo]

There wasn't enough time for enough people to switch to a Jebus lynch on D1, and I think qwints knew this.

Yeah, it was too late. Maybe we shouldn't underestimate qwints in that regard.

[Jahudo]

There are alot of people not talking and so we don't really know who is utterly against lynching Jebus or myk. Even if they are town like Adel says they have no reason not to speak their mind.

Deadline's coming and I'm not sure why I'm not voting for alcoholic, Zak, Double A, or tajo. They're lurkers who didn't have to make associative tells with qwints but I don't necessarily see why that means they're town.

[Jahudo]

and by that I mean tell us who you recruited nights 1 and 2, and we shall get confirmation from them. Don't try anything else, you'll just get lynched for being God.

This actually sounds like a good idea. He'd either have to give up other scum, or he'd have to lie and risk claiming an agnostic. He could just claim agnostic again but I don't know how many people believed him the first time.

Claim scum claim!

unvote;
Vote: Jebus

(TO L-1)

[Jahudo]

hp did you think you were the hammer?

[Jahudo]

unvote

[Jahudo]

Sorry, I just got caught up again

What do you mean?
Did you read page 50?
What pages were you reading?
Did you notice the vote count at all on page 50?
Why didn't you check with the vote count on page 50 to make sure I was not lying or mistaken?

[Jahudo]

If Jebus is Nietzsche he either has to kill today or tonight.

If he kills today...
1) We have a chance to kill God.
2) We know Jebus isn't God or CL, which helps us make a more informed lynch.

If he uses his kill tonight...
1) We have a chance to kill God.
2) Jebus has 1 less person to choose from in his NK decision.

I think Jebus should use his day kill because if it fails to find God then we rely on town judgment.

Also back to lynching mykonian,

Vote: Mykonian

[Jahudo]

I will hammer him if you do.

You're fourth on his god list. Are you worried he might target you?

[Jahudo]

Here's what I think. We lynch alvinz(who replaced Mask Man) today (

unvote, Vote: Alvinz/Mask Man

), I kill either mykonian or Juhado tonight.

It looks to me like you are stalling and your suspicions are baseless because you haven't stated why you think any of these people are likely god.

For the majority of day 2 you ignored mask and myself, and you hopped on mykonians wagon without pressuring him further. I cannot believe Nietzsche would lurk and hop when it is in his interest to scumhunt.

mykonian suspicions

My general thought right now is mykonian, though I need to re-read on myko to confirm. But for the sake of having my vote out there,

Vote: mykonian

No reason provided for why you think he's god.

No, I actually agree with that.

unvote, Vote: Mykonian

You were already voting mykonian here. And I assume this agreement was for my (Jahudo's) post 1048 that laid out a reason for voting mykonian just before you made your post. Why hop on myk's wagon using logic from one of your other god suspects?

mask man interactions

I want more posts from Ting, and Zakeri + All the other lurkers.

This^

Here you agree with him. It is your only Day 2 direct acknowledgment of mask until you reveal him on your god list.

d)maskman voted me for making a joke, and he said srsly?, so I did it right back at him.

Heh. Not sure I like this one, but 'kay.

Day 1 you don't agree with zwets vote on mask man.

Questions:
1. Why do you find Mykonian, mask man, and Jahudo god-like?
2. When did you first think each person was likely god?
3. Why did you vote for mykonian when you were already voting for him? Why did you re-vote using my logic? Why didn't you ever question or pressure mykonian?

[Jahudo]

I'd like to hear this (who I should kill) from:
Juhado

Can you address post 1351?

[Jahudo]

I didn't write down the post numbers or anything like that, and I don't have time to go back and find any. Sorry :/

It's at the top of this page and that's the link to it.

Basically: Why do you find these people god-like all of a sudden?

[Jahudo]

I want to know why we're likely god to him.

[Jahudo]

Why kill Jahudo?

[Jahudo]

Adel, why am I likely god?

[Jahudo]

unvote;
Vote: Jebus

You have a day and you don't even answer any of my questions, probably because you don't have any reasonable answers. You make this desperation claim but you are now stalling for deadline where we are forced to be ready to lynch someone, but we're not ready because you've taken up time with this distraction. The lynch is now going to be rushed and I don't see scumhunting going on from you or the group, so I don't know how you can be that interested in finding God.

[Jahudo]

I'd still like to know why you two think I'm likely God.

[Jahudo]

Also, it's Jahudo. The A comes before the U.

[Jahudo]

I didn't die in vain! DGB is awesome! And the rest of my cult!

I think I got recruited night 1?

It would have been fun to lynch Zakeri in the first place like I wanted to, but I'll take this win too.

[Jahudo]

Yes DGB was a good choice. That was amazing watching her order everyone around by telling them how to vote

Looker, man, you gotta read the new stuff when you enter into the game as the most important role! I was so pissed when you killed the wrong person. It's a good thing you know how to lurk and DGB knows how to distract and distance.

[Jahudo]

Now that I think about it agnostics would have easily won this game day 1 if zwet hadnt claimed cult leader.

Or just listen to EA: He called the game on page 3. I kept wondering why no one speculated why he died night 1.