Mini 692: Boost Mafia (Game Over!)

[Xtoxm]

I fail to see what you expect to achieve by vigging a PR.

And i've already said, that's just the boost. Are you stupid?

[Huntress]

I still fail to see how anyone can see Sthar as scum.

I didn't like the way he was trying to deflect attention from Eldarad among other things and although an individual read of him made him look more town, my initial read of the whole thread, plus his later posts, make him seem more likely to be scum. He was/You are currently my second highest suspect.

[Xtoxm]

Whatever, kill me if you want. I have no intention of playing this game being constantly called scum by everyone.

[icemanE]

Vig me instead.

[vollkan]

139: Incog. He refers to a post by ilord where ilord uses a point that Incog raised to argue for FL being town. Incog asks how ilord can do this and find incog scummy. There's clearly no reason why incog cannot be scummy for reasons X, Y and Z but can also have a valid point about somebody else. (+1)
146: Incog. ilord has made the same point that I made above (in 142). Incog responds to the rest of what ilord says, but makes no mention of this. It's odd that for a point that his questioning suggests was so obvious, he would shunt it so quickly - his attempt to gather townie-brownies failed, and so he drops the potato. (+1)
151: Crazy posts his read thus far. It's all just very uncontroversial. Out of the entire post, he only really says one thing which can lead to further discussion or anything (a question to skillit about him providing slant). For IIoA (+1)
154: Crazy says RR's attack on sthar8 is "crap and scummy" - no elaboration or anything. It's odd that something he actually has an apparently strong opinion about (which is more than can be said for 99% of his previous post) would be entirely omitted from his previous post. (+1)
166: Eldar makes a very weird vote for Crazy. His first comment on Crazy is "I am surprised that springlullaby pulled Incog up for referring to my opinion, but completely ignored Crazy doing the same in a much more blatant way." (I don't see why this makes crazy scummy and not SL.) and "I also don't like the continued assumption that Electra's "information" will be a cop investigation." (It's a stupid assumption, but it isn't scummy). Especially given that he has a far greater number of points on SL (+1)
172: Incog ignores SL's post, very blatantly. (+1)
193: Jahudo posts his reads: "My current feelings: Electra, iLord look town; eldarad, incog and spring I feel gut town; skillet, TDC and sthar are neutral; RR and crazy getting slight scum. I don't have a read on fuzzy." This increases the odds of at least one of RR and crazy being scum quite substantially (scum will typically place a partner within their suspects so as to enable distancing cred). No number increases or anything for this, but I think it is important to bear in mind.
229: RR accuses ilord of a contradiction. I'm going to have to quote here, to make this point capable of being understood.

Yup, scum make an active effort to appear pro town while town are more concerned with looking for scum, so obviously scum have a much stronger sense of guilt when they are called on an anti-town play. For them, it means their town-act failed, while town are more inclined to think it's the other guy's fault for not reading them correctly.
However, both in hindsight and considering his latest comment, I think sthar's massclaim speculation is a pretty strong sign that he's town. Unvote.

That's weak logic - if one of them had a stronger sense of guilt, it would be town because they would feel guilty for harming to town - their faction.

Good job backing up finally, after someone attacked you for it. My suspicions of you do not falter.

[quote="ilord #2]

I'll ask again since you didn't quite answer this one - much of your reason for suspecting me seems to be that I "pushed" my point against sthar repeatedly. However, I did that because I was repeatedly questioned about it by other players. What is the pro town course of action in this case that would'nt have made me look scummy to you?

Admit that your point was weak once you realized it.
[/quote]

There's no contradiction there. In the first post, RR makes a weak defence of a weak point, but proceeds to abandon the vote for other reasons - the easiest means of dropping accountability for a bad point. If RR had simply said "My guilt argument sucks", then there would be no problem; instead he mounts a defence of that point. (+2)

234: Unclear why Eldar boosts Jahudo or why he votes ilord.

@Eldarad

: Could you clarify these please?
239: incog votes ilord, saying to check his previous posts. He has taken issue with ilord, so I don't have a problem with this right now.


2) Green Crayons (replacing Mana_Ku who replaced Skillit) - 55
3) Raging Rabbit - 54
5) TDC - 50
6) Huntress (replacing Crazy) - 53
7) Incognito - 55
8) eldarad - 51
9) Xtoxm (replacing sthar8) - 50
12) icemanE (replacing RandomGem who replaced fuzzylightning) - 50

[Raging Rabbit]

And i've already said, that's just the boost. Are you stupid?

No, but apparantly you are. Sthar already "confessed" to having no other powers except the boost.

Unvote, vote Xtoxm

. Lynch all liars, especially when said lie practically screams scum.

I support Iceman's suggestion to vig him.

[Patrick]

Day 2, Vote Count #6 - Lynching

icemanE (2) <- Green Crayons, Incognito
Huntress <- Xtoxm
Xtoxm (2) <- TDC, Raging Rabbit
Raging Rabbit <- eldarad
eldarad <- Huntress

Not voting: Vollkan, icemanE.

Boost Count
eldarad (2) <- TDC, Xtoxm
TDC <- Raging Rabbit
Raging Rabbit <- Incognito
Vollkan <- Green Crayons

9 alive, cool stuff happens at 5.

[TDC]

Got prodded.

Still want Xtoxm to claim.

I remember someone (RR?) claiming to have a case on iceman/his predecessors. Can we see that?

In other news, we need to get a boost vote done, it's just like.. one week and a bit to deadline.
Only 5 people have boost votes going, this needs to change.

vollkan: Are you aware of the deadline? It looks like if you were to progress through the game at a similar speed you've been doing this week, you'll not actually reach the end of it by then.

[vollkan]

Yeah, I know there's a deadline. My intention at this stage is to continue the read as best I can. I will accelerate my read (ie. minimal notes, etc.). I like to be as thorough as possible, but I am of the view my coming to a proper conclusion at the end of the day is more important than my being thorough. (Also, my past experience is that more recent content is usually more helpful anyway).

280: Incog vote Guardian for SL's dummy-spitting. Her play there was dreadful, but I don't think it is scummy. She was pissed off earlier in the thread IIRC, and there's no real reason to suppose she would be more likely to quit as scum then as town. (+1)
299: Incog attacks ilord's reads. See my previous post for why the argumnet that , becasue ilord used a point of incog's he should see incog as pro-town, is simply untrue. He also says the list seems contrived becasue he couldn't see how players could be ranked so early, passing over (but mentioning) that incog stressed his reads were not concrete. Sure, the rankings didn't mean much, but that doesn't make them "contrived", just tentative. His third point, however, is legit. (+1)
374: The whole "dirty reads" thing. I don't find this scummy, because I've seen the argument before, but it isn't true. Scum benefit from buddying; scum benefit from playing as they think town would - the "dirty read" strategy is one that scum can employ, sure, but it is by no means uncommon for town to also find suspicion globally.
414: @RR: What is the "apparent contradiction" here? I can't see it.

2) Green Crayons (replacing Mana_Ku who replaced Skillit) - 55
3) Raging Rabbit - 53
5) TDC - 50
6) Huntress (replacing Crazy) - 53
7) Incognito - 57
8) eldarad - 51
9) Xtoxm (replacing sthar8) - 50
12) icemanE (replacing RandomGem who replaced fuzzylightning) - 50


I know this post is short; it's just to indicate where I am up to and what I found most notable in what I read.

[Raging Rabbit]

I remember someone (RR?) claiming to have a case on iceman/his predecessors. Can we see that?

I found some serious linkage between him Jahudo, no real time to go back to my notes and explain it in detail right now. No need either, we've got obvscum xtoxm to lynch.

414: @RR: What is the "apparent contradiction" here? I can't see it.

First the vote is based on a scumread, than it's just meant to gather info.


Lets boost either vollkan or TDC, lynch xtoscum and get this day over with.

[eldarad]

It's an intriguing move, I know, but I actually considered the parts where she posted without claiming. Also her first post still strongly reads town.

I fail to see how you can reach an opinion on Electra/Vollkan without considering whether her claim is genuine. Surely that is the crucial issue - yet you are saying that you have got a gut town read on Electra

without considering her claim

.
Do you think your opinion on Electra's alignment will change if you reach the conclusion that her claim is fake?
If so, how can you have any confidence at all in your 'gut read'?
How can I - or any of us - take your stated read seriously if you have ignored such a crucial point?

Lynch all liars

yay. That's the third general "rule" (rule is poor choice of word, but can't think of a better one) you've trotted out without explaining how it applies in this specific case.
It sounds like you're using LAL as a justification for your vote (in addition to your stated view that the claim is scummy). Is that accurate?

~~~

I didn't like the way he was trying to deflect attention from Eldarad among other things and although an individual read of him made him look more town, my initial read of the whole thread, plus his later posts, make him seem more likely to be scum. He was/You are currently my second highest suspect.

Oh. So your opinion on sthar has changed? When did that happen?
Was there one particular point where your opinion changed, or has it been gradual? Why didn't you mention your change of opinion before now?

~~~
Xtoxm, are you reading the thread from the start? Are you planning to make some kind of analysis post?

~~~
Vollkan,
I boosted Jahudo because of - as I said to iLord - "accumulated townieness". It was also, to a much lesser extent, a gut reaction since I was pleased that someone was thinking critically about Electra's alignment even after the majority of the town had accepted Electra's claim at face value.

I think my reasons for voting iLord are pretty well documented in-thread, including the post where I originally voted iLord (#234).

I guess my problem is that Crazy was coming across to me as scummy whereas I still haven't figured out if my issue with sl is a playstyle/personality thing.

This was my response to a very similar point you raised regarding my vote on Crazy (rather than SL).

~~~

boost Vollkan

on the basis that I still believe Electra's claim to be genuine, and if it is not then we have another chance to spot any inconsistent "information" that Vollkan will have to invent overnight.

unvote
vote iceman

primarily because there is a lack of content, not just from iceman, but from all of the other players who have had that role. Possibly it suggests that there is something in the role PM that incentivises them to keep quiet?
Given that I don't appear to be gaining traction with my RR case, I much prefer an iceman lynch to a xtoxm lynch.

[Raging Rabbit]

I fail to see how you can reach an opinion on Electra/Vollkan without considering whether her claim is genuine. Surely that is the crucial issue - yet you are saying that you have got a gut town read on Electra without considering her claim.
Do you think your opinion on Electra's alignment will change if you reach the conclusion that her claim is fake?
If so, how can you have any confidence at all in your 'gut read'?
How can I - or any of us - take your stated read seriously if you have ignored such a crucial point?

I'm not ignoring it, I'm just aware of the fact that it involves a ton of WIFOM and I therefore can't really utilize it to form an opinion. You, on the other hand, have a completely bogus argument for why it clears her and are apparantly not basing your opinion on any of her other actions. Claiming that my approach is the scummy one is just pure BS.

yay. That's the third general "rule" (rule is poor choice of word, but can't think of a better one) you've trotted out without explaining how it applies in this specific case.
It sounds like you're using LAL as a justification for your vote (in addition to your stated view that the claim is scummy). Is that accurate?

xtoxm basically completely contradicted his predeccesor's unconvincing claim. What more could you possibly need to base a lynch on, a signed confession?

Unboost, boost vollkan

. He's a more popular choice than TDC and we need to get this day over with.

[Raging Rabbit]

My role PM gave nonspecific qualities of my character, and implied that boosting me would

amplify these charactersitics into a power.

...And many other times he essentially claimed to have no power other than the boost.

That's just the boost, guess it's a partial claim.

And i've already said, that's just the boost. Are you stupid?

Clearly the claim suddently changes to having a power role that has nothing to do with boosts.

I rest my case.

[Xtoxm]

Volkan doesn't get anything though. We may aswell try and give a townie a power.

Like Eld.

I should be able to read this today.

[Huntress]

I didn't like the way he was trying to deflect attention from Eldarad among other things and although an individual read of him made him look more town, my initial read of the whole thread, plus his later posts, make him seem more likely to be scum. He was/You are currently my second highest suspect.

Oh. So your opinion on sthar has changed? When did that happen?
Was there one particular point where your opinion changed, or has it been gradual? Why didn't you mention your change of opinion before now?

It was a gradual change which you can see from my day one posts.
In post 351 I said I thought he was suspicious after my initial read.
In post 497 I said he seemed more town-like after completing an individual read of his posts.
In post 538 I mentioned a concern about him when I explained why I wasn't joining his boost-wagon (second to last paragraph).
Further exchanges with him increased my suspicions.
He rose to second place due to the lessening of my suspicion of Incognito.
The inconsistency between Sthar and Xtomx re: the claim has served to confirm that placing.

[Xtoxm]

This game just got promoted to #1 in my catch up list. I'll try and read through it today or tomorrow.

If you just want to lynch me go right ahead, i'd rather not waste my time.

[icemanE]

vote iceman
primarily because there is a lack of content, not just from iceman, but from all of the other players who have had that role. Possibly it suggests that

there is something in the role PM that incentivises them to keep quiet

[Huntress]

vote iceman
primarily because there is a lack of content, not just from iceman, but from all of the other players who have had that role. Possibly it suggests that there is something in the role PM that incentivises them to keep quiet?

Fuzzylightning seemed to have no problems posting content, and RandomGem had one decent length post (488) which had an interesting point at the end re: the value of a boost on him.

[Patrick]

Bumping above locked topics. Deadline stands at Monday the 2nd of February.

[Xtoxm]

Incog looks scummy in thw whole SL thing. And Spring looked very town.

I heard you claimed vig.

Incog, did you vig SL?

With a vig claim he's almost ceertainly town I guess, though it's possible Maf getting boosted gives an extra kill.

[Xtoxm]

Electra and Eld. The eraly claim, and his reactions around it look town. Eld looks town in general to me. Good boost target. Glancing through isolations I see no reason to chnage these opinions.

[Xtoxm]

Just realised i'm only looking for 2 scum.

Green Crayons (replacing Mana_Ku who replaced Skillit) - Lurky, but liking what he says and overall looks pretty town. Good first post, too.


Huntress (replacing Crazy) - Huntress herself; hard to read, and overall play not disimilar to that i've seen of her as scum. So I took a look at Crazy. Disliked his reaction to El's claim, and lurking, however I hear he lurks as town. But..I dunno, he just kinda feels sincere, and town, to me.

Ice - Doubt scum would ask to be vigged.

TDC - Dislike his reaction to El. He accuses her, then realises it's a mistake when questioned and Boosts her. Also dislike his recent attack on me, as with RR. I fail to see why anyone wants to boost him.

Raging Rabbit - Well I already know i'm gonna call him scum, but i'll look at his posts anyway. Good reaction to El. His general early play comes off pro-town.

I don't really buy you weren't noticing the stuff you wrote, this sorta panicky response looks like scum kicking himself for being suspected.

Unvote, vote sthar.

This is the first thing I see I don't like. Why would you even attack someone over that? That looks like scum attacking a weak reason.

Town has less inclination bothh kick themselves for not looking pro town enough and make an active effort to not draw suspicion.

I try harder to look town when i'm town. I seem to fail more/just as much.

And, like I say his recent attack on me looks like scum picking an easy target.

I see him as more liekly scum than TDC, so

Unvote Vote RR

So, there's the scum. GG.

[Xtoxm]

And before you ask, no I didn't read everything. It's 37 bloody pages. Screw that.

[Raging Rabbit]

vote iceman
primarily because there is a lack of content, not just from iceman, but from all of the other players who have had that role. Possibly it suggests that there is something in the role PM that incentivises them to keep quiet?

Fuzzylightning seemed to have no problems posting content, and RandomGem had one decent length post (488) which had an interesting point at the end re: the value of a boost on him.

QFT. The role itself is both generally bad for the game and somewhat contradictory with the theme in particurlar. I highly doubt a mod like Patrick would put a role that encourages lurking in a game like this. Very inconsistent with Iceman's predecessors as well, who posted few long posts instead of (relatively) many short ones. I'd say we have two caught scum here.

I enjoyed Xtoxm stating he's gonna vote me before even reading my posts (can you get any more OMGUSy than that?), then digging up that old apology thing I explained a million times while ignoring said million explanations, and at the same time not coming up with any sort of defense to the glaring lie he's been caught in.

[Xtoxm]

I expected you to call my vote omgus. Standard scum accusation.