Mini 708 - Cheat Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Master Ruck]

Mod: Can we get prods on Ghost Writer and UROE please.

[UnofficialRulerOfEveryone]

I am here...

I've been gone for a day (2 days in this game, I presume), and I get asked to be prodded, Bah.

I don't know where to go from here, as I am being asked questions that I have no info on how to answer, so, I can't truthfully defend myself in this situation.

I do, however, want to state, that I find Nat's miller claim, even from an outside perspective of the game (As, I know that I am a miller now that I have the PM...), truly OK, it's a difference in play styles at the worst. Some people don't like to let claimed millers live, some people don't like to claim as miller until a cop inspect proves as such is needed, and some people don't have as much of an opinion, but, either way, I find the claim fine.

[Master Ruck]

Sorry. I had it in my head that today was the 24th so I thought you had been gone for 4 days. GW still needs a prod though. We also need to stop faffing about with matters that bring the game to a complete halt if one person doesn't say anything. We have 9 days until deadline, so we need to start scum hunting again. My vote is staying on Jahudo for now, but I'll do a brief reread soon and see if anything changes.

[malthusis]

Sorry. I had it in my head that today was the 24th so I thought you had been gone for 4 days. GW still needs a prod though. We also need to stop faffing about with matters that bring the game to a complete halt if one person doesn't say anything. We have 9 days until deadline, so we need to start scum hunting again. My vote is staying on Jahudo for now, but I'll do a brief reread soon and see if anything changes.

The point though, Ruck, is that nothing's going to change unless some miarcle is going to happen. I know this is not fair UROE, but I still want to lynch Nat right now. I'm not moving my vote right now. I can't seem to find any case that's more scummy then nat's. My vote stands.

Mod: Maybe we should have a massprod to get things going?

[/b]

[iLord]

An Ally Found (Day 3)

Axelrod, ever the outspoken one, decided to brave a question to the teacher:

"Hey, miss, could we leave this room?"

The teacher's response was remarkably percieving and harsh:

"You mean to escape from this school and leave the test?"

"No, no, no, we just-"

The teacher's response was again surprising:

"Yeah, I want to get out of this too - I've been stuck in this school for over 30 hours. But it's going to be hard to get out. They couldn't even get out your other teacher - the snow is too thick outside. And the officers quarantining the school aren't helping. They've heard about the deaths in here, and they want to keep the killers stuck in the school."

The students were shocked at the outburst. Apparently oblivious of this, the teacher continued:

"Yeah, you know what? I'm going to get us out of here. I'm sure you're just as sick of this as I am. But don't forget, you guys still have to do good on this test, I'm rewarding those that do when I check. I won't be helping you there, but I'm ready to escape. So who's with me?"

The students all chimed in with their agreement. Axelrod expressed his appreciation:

"Wow, you're a really cool teacher Mrs. ...?

The teacher opened the door and glanced back at Axelrod:

"You can call me Jennifer."

Vote Count the Second:

Natriasha (2): Sirdanilot, Malthusis
Jahudo (1): Master Ruck

Deadline: Sunday, Feburary 1st, around 4:00 EST. I prodded Jahudo, sirdanilot, GhostWriter, and Axelrod, but this will not count as an official prod because it's a period of mass inactivity.

[GhostWriter]

I've already said that I believe the miller claim, for the most part. This is because I feel that it's most helpful to the town for claim miller, if you know that you are one, early on. I've never been a supporter of the "lynch all millers" ideal, but I that doesn't make me completely exclude them if there's a strong enough case on them. However, I don't think that there is, at least not for me. I'm much more comfortable bumping my previous FoS to a

Vote: Jahudo

.

[UnofficialRulerOfEveryone]

I need to re-read the case against Jahudo, up until then I believed he was surely town, and still had him as my #1 pick for town, but I may be wrong...

[Jahudo]

I swear someone said they had (I haven't re-read lately) but I didn't cheat off Nat.

Is this what you were thinking?

I know animorpherv1 has more answers. Mostly because he said he cheated off of me last night.

I just got it randomly, I don't remember asking to cheat off you.

This is my take on sirdan's PBPA on Nat...

• 5 - Unless you can prove that Nat set alerts on Day 1, this is not a lie. He never unconditionally said he'd leave alerts off the entire game.
  
  31 - not a tell. fluff post only.
  
  41/48/61/65 - I think he means to say "Ani's character claim (Class Clown) looks true but is not entirely town-oriented. It could be scum alignment just as easy, which is a gambit to pull." I understood that from his original post, not his explanation.
  
  74 - this is contradictory. I'm inferring that he doesn't have confidence in a animorph wagon but that feeling is outweighed by not wanting pressure on himself. This could be town or scum I guess.
  
  85 - not a tell. fluff post only.
  
  94/102 - IIOA. He's talking setup but not scumhunting. Slight scum tell.
  
  106 - not a tell. animorph misread the game and nat corrected him.
  
  134 - not a tell. fluff post only.
  
  148 - I agree. He didn't express suspicion before voting. This could be a huge scum tell if the post count wasn't incorrect. Maybe Nat knew what he was doing and knew he could use it to defend himself, maybe not.
  
  150/152/154/156/ - If this was face to face we might know if he was acting, but I can't tell from that.
  
  168 - This could be a scum tell. He said he wanted to scumhunt and he was given an extended twilight, but he does nothing with it.
  
  190 - Theory talk but we had to say something to armix I guess.
  
  223 - Alot of people voted animorph over the jester thing. I don't see how Nat looks any different. Also, your post was overflowing with loose ends about animorph and armix so I can understand someone else not responding to a question the first time its asked in that manner.
  
  250 - not a scum tell.
  
  255 - Yeah, animorph said he didn't cheat so I guess we trust him over Nat here. Ani said he got them randomly though and I don't know how he could do that? Does this mean Nat is lying or Ani was confused?
  
  262 - personality tell if anything.
  
  285 - sarcasm is not a scum tell

I think only posts 74, 94/102, 148, 168, and 255 might be scumtells.
@Everyone: Does anyone have any suspicions to add or subtract from my list?

[sirdanilot]

This is my take on sirdan's PBPA on Nat...

• 5 - Unless you can prove that Nat set alerts on Day 1, this is not a lie. He never unconditionally said he'd leave alerts off the entire game.

And I still don't agree with this interpretation, but whatever.

31 - not a tell. fluff post only.

Fluff post = tell

41/48/61/65 - I think he means to say "Ani's character claim (Class Clown) looks true but is not entirely town-oriented. It could be scum alignment just as easy, which is a gambit to pull." I understood that from his original post, not his explanation.

uh ok

74 - this is contradictory. I'm inferring that he doesn't have confidence in a animorph wagon but that feeling is outweighed by not wanting pressure on himself. This could be town or scum I guess.

how could that be town

85 - not a tell. fluff post only.

no. contradiction with 74 where he said the game didn't interest him. neverthele[quote[ss, only a very small tell if anything but still worth to note.

94/102 - IIOA. He's talking setup but not scumhunting. Slight scum tell.

to me it's more that he's trying to say that the speculation is 'obvious'. it isn't

106 - not a tell. animorph misread the game and nat corrected him.

this is slight setup speculation but w/e

148 - I agree. He didn't express suspicion before voting. This could be a huge scum tell if the post count wasn't incorrect. Maybe Nat knew what he was doing and knew he could use it to defend himself, maybe not.

Even if he didn't know that he was hammering, so mindlessly voting him to put him at l-1 and then saying 'damn I hammered him' is scummy enough in itself. how can you not see that.

150/152/154/156/ - If this was face to face we might know if he was acting, but I can't tell from that.

see above. even if he didn't know, this is scummy.

168 - This could be a scum tell. He said he wanted to scumhunt and he was given an extended twilight, but he does nothing with it.

190 - Theory talk but we had to say something to armix I guess.

223 - Alot of people voted animorph over the jester thing. I don't see how Nat looks any different. Also, your post was overflowing with loose ends about animorph and armix so I can understand someone else not responding to a question the first time its asked in that manner.

250 - not a scum tell.

255 - Yeah, animorph said he didn't cheat so I guess we trust him over Nat here. Ani said he got them randomly though and I don't know how he could do that? Does this mean Nat is lying or Ani was confused?

I have no idea.

262 - personality tell if anything.

285 - sarcasm is not a scum tell[/list]
I think only posts 74, 94/102, 148, 168, and 255 might be scumtells.
@Everyone: Does anyone have any suspicions to add or subtract from my list?

285 - way to dismiss what he said and just look at the 'sarcasm' brackets.

[Jahudo]

Fluff post = tell

Post 31 was in the random voting stage but I don't see what purpose he had of saying it as scum or town.

how could that be town

The way I saw it, post 74 did look scummy and I pointed it out when I first showed up. But I'm also considering that this guy had a thin skin and avoids pressure in all his games. I'll need to meta it.

no. contradiction with 74 where he said the game didn't interest him.

Did he play with you and Axel before? Does interesting in post 85 mean he doesn't want to play with you or he is looking forward to it?

to me it's more that he's trying to say that the speculation is 'obvious'. it isn't

Another thing about post 102 is that he is responding to an Axel quote but he doesn't actually answer Axel's question. Axel asked "what about this setup leads to multiple millers?" but Nat answers "It's obvious that our powers are to not be millers". It feels to me that Nat had been thinking about this power idea for a while and wanted to tell it to us. It is certainly there to make us believe his claim.

this is slight setup speculation but w/e

Do you mean he's speculating that whoever talked about there being a death miller also thinks this is a bastard-mod game? If so I see your point.

Even if he didn't know that he was hammering, so mindlessly voting him to put him at l-1 and then saying 'damn I hammered him' is scummy enough in itself. how can you not see that.

If the vote count had been accurate and Nat still did that I would say lynch him, end of story.

I have no idea.

Post 168 is scummy because he said he wanted the chance to scumhunt and 168 was his chance to do so, but he said nothing in that post. At twilight only town want to scumhunt, while scum want to night kill.

Post 223 - You brought that up but I don't understand why Nat looks scummy but malthusis doesn't?

Post 255 - Do you think Animorph was A) Telling the truth or B) Confused at the question. If A, then Nat is scum and we should lynch him now. And explain how A is true because Ani confused me with this post so I think B.

285 - way to dismiss what he said and just look at the 'sarcasm' brackets.

I'll look for this too in the meta and see if he uses sarcasm as scum. It was late in the game for jokes but it just sounded to me like he couldn't handle a little suspicion.

[Axelrod]

I'm still here.

I was leaning towards voting Nat. and Unoficial Ruler hasn't done anything yet to make me feel like changing that opinion.

The early Miller claim is a slight plus, just because it's a gambitty thing to do as scum right out of the block, but Nat. kind of went downhill from there. I am trying to figure out who my #2 is, but, as is becomming more and more the case, my time is limited. Sorry.

[iLord]

Sneaking Around! (Day 3)

Jennifer opened the door and the kids filed out. They looked around, and saw that the coast was clear. They rushed out into the next classroom. Fortunately, this one was empty. They students sat down and waited as Jennifer went to scout out the next room.

Vote Count the Second:

Natriasha (2): Sirdanilot, Malthusis
Jahudo (1): Master Ruck

Deadline: Sunday, Feburary 1st, around 4:00 EST. Bumping past MeMe.

[Jahudo]

My vote is staying on Jahudo for now, but I'll do a brief reread soon and see if anything changes.

Was the vote for me creating a distraction, for misreading the game mechanics, or something else?

I'm sticking with my Jahudo vote as he's done nothing as far as I can see to make me think I was wrong

I don't know what type of suspicion this is. Was this just looking town in general or does this also refer to the distraction?

[Master Ruck]

Well, I said I'd do a brief reread and for now it's just included an isolation read of Jahudo and Electra before him. My vote on you was because I saw you going on about confirmed and wrong answers and the way you persisted in it for a while made me think scum, though now I'm not so sure. However, Electra has done you no favours. His very first post was him suggesting Death Millers which I believe has been said that it's never a good thing to discuss or imply or something. Also, his last posts were during the "Vote Ani" stage and while he fairly unvoted to give ani a chance to talk and discuss the possible issue of the number of answers he had, El later votes Ani with that being the whole content of his post.

I'm feeling a bit iffy on Nat/UROE so I'm gonna do a read on them next, but on the whole you are still looking scummy to me.

[Master Ruck]

Oh, and Happy Birthday iLord!

[DrippingGoofball]

Well, I said I'd do a brief reread and for now it's just included an isolation read of Jahudo and Electra before him. My vote on you was because I saw you going on about confirmed and wrong answers and the way you persisted in it for a while made me think scum, though now I'm not so sure. However, Electra has done you no favours. His very first post was him suggesting Death Millers which I believe has been said that it's never a good thing to discuss or imply or something. Also, his last posts were during the "Vote Ani" stage and while he fairly unvoted to give ani a chance to talk and discuss the possible issue of the number of answers he had, El later votes Ani with that being the whole content of his post.

Does this sound like mutual bus'ing?

[Master Ruck]

You're gonna have to explain that as I don't know how someone can be

mutually

bussed. Regardless, those were my thoughts after looking at Jahudo/Electra and I'll post my thoughts on Nat/UROE soon as well. Not right now, though, as another game I'm in is almost at deadline.

[Jahudo]

Does this sound like mutual bus'ing?

I don't think Ruck is scum. I'd put UROE or Sirdan as scum but not Ruck at the moment.

[UnofficialRulerOfEveryone]

Now that my previous commitments are winding down, or I am being killed off in my commitments, I can actually scumhunt! *CHEERS*

I re-read Master Ruck, I'm not convinced of his scumminess, but I really don't think jahudo is a good choice for today's lynch.

[sirdanilot]

Post 255 - Do you think Animorph was A) Telling the truth or B) Confused at the question. If A, then Nat is scum and we should lynch him now. And explain how A is true because Ani confused me with this post so I think B.

I don't really get what you're getting at. 255 is a nat post, not an ani post. As for 254 (which was an ani post), he wasn't answering a question. He only said that he got only 2 with his role. As for 259, "I just got it randomly, I don't remember asking to cheat off you.". I don't know what this means. Nat says that he

said

he cheated off him n1, but

did

he cheat off him? Ani only said that he

hasn't asked

to cheat off Nat, not that he

hasn't done it

. And "I just got it randomly" what is that supposed to mean. Maybe that he randomly picked someone to cheat off of, but does that even matter?

So could you rephrase or explain your question here?

[Jahudo]

Nat says that he

said

he cheated off him n1, but

did

he cheat off him? Ani only said that he

hasn't asked

to cheat off Nat, not that he

hasn't done it

. And "I just got it randomly" what is that supposed to mean. Maybe that he randomly picked someone to cheat off of, but does that even matter?

That's what I'm trying to figure out but I don't know what Animorph meant by "I got them randomly" either. Since Ani is town maybe he did ask the mod to pick a target at random, or maybe random cheating is in his role ability as Class Clown.

I know animorpherv1 has more answers.

Mostly because he said he cheated off of me last night.

What do you make of this second line? I can't find Animorph saying that in thread so I think Nat is claiming to have talked with Animorph in PMs.

I just got it randomly, I don't remember asking to cheat off you.

And that's how Ani responds. He doesn't mention outside of game conversations, but he doesn't call Nat a liar either.

So I think Nat is either lying or Ani didn't provide everything he knew at L-1. He didn't explain what random cheating was or if Nat had talked to him in PMs which sounds like something you'd want to give if you're asking people not to lynch you.

[sirdanilot]

Since Ani is town (1)maybe he did ask the mod to pick a target at random, (2)or maybe random cheating is in his role ability as Class Clown

1 no
2 We will never know. And we cannot assume this simply because we would then be setup speculating. Also, personally this makes little sense to me but that doesn't even matter.
Therefore the only assumption we can make is that he just randomly chose a target out of the list and it was nat.

Since the random thing is a non issue (it doesn't really matter does it) we need to ask ourselves if ani PMed with nat. To be honest, look at post 74. He suspects animorpher. Since animorpher was a newbie I don't think that he would find someone who is voting him pro-town. Not pro-town enough to pm.

Look at post 105, he suspects nat for claiming death miller (which he didn't, but that doesn't matter). He takes that back in 107, but look at 111; when he takes it back about DH, he doesn't unvote him. So for some reason he still suspects DH enough, and it would be only logical to extend that to Natirasha. Remember I am just following ani's logic here.

If you can point me to even a single day 1 post where ani said nat was pro town, we should immediately unvote nat. But you probably can't. That's why I still think Nat is scum and we should lynch him.

[Jahudo]

To be honest, look at post 74. He suspects animorpher. Since animorpher was a newbie I don't think that he would find someone who is voting him pro-town. Not pro-town enough to pm.

True and the only reason I can think of Nat PM'ing Ani is as Nat-scum trying to trick him with wrong answers.

Look at post 105, he suspects nat for claiming death miller (which he didn't, but that doesn't matter). He takes that back in 107, but look at 111; when he takes it back about DH, he doesn't unvote him. So for some reason he still suspects DH enough, and it would be only logical to extend that to Natirasha. Remember I am just following ani's logic here.

107 Ani still "knows" that DH claimed death miller so in his confused mind the case is still against DH but not Nat with this point.
111 Ani drops the case against DH but says

I am sorry, however, you don't seem to be posting much. I'd like to see some more activity from you.

So the case on now about lurking I guess? But this looks more like self-preservation than voting confidence. Anyway, it's irrelevant to Nat tells.

If you can point me to even a single day 1 post where ani said nat was pro town, we should immediately unvote nat. But you probably can't. That's why I still think Nat is scum and we should lynch him.

I can't and with deadline 5 days away I'll go ahead and

Vote: UnofficialRulerOfEveryone

[malthusis]

Mod: can you use the almighty prodstick to get this through?

[UnofficialRulerOfEveryone]

Why do you want me dead so bad, malthusis?