Mafia 90-Lolwat? Mafia, Game Over, Mafia Win

[Knight of Cydonia]

The cougar's anger leads it to bite,
But before we reach untimely night,
He might do better to aim his teeth
at one who truly deserves to be six beneath.

[Vino]

Welcome to the game BSG, I hope you did well with that French horn, quite an elegant instrument.

I would love to get in on this discussion but it is moving very fast,

has nothing to do with me

, and seems to be between a group of people who have known each other for a while, so I have very little to contribute. Also this is my first large game and I've never played with so many people, so I'm having trouble sorting out who is who.

I'm speechless...

I don't see the problem? It had nothing to do with me in that other people were talking about other people, and I didn't really have any opinion on an issue that was in my opinion a non-issue. People made way too big of a deal about a misunderstanding that I didn't even fully understand.

Post 187

How are you attacking him, Vino?

It was just a general criticizing of behavior. But see below:

Wait, wait wait. Did Vino use the 'too scummy to be scum' argument in post 202? Because when I read this, I get that impression:

It was jestery in my opinion only because it was sloppy for scum play.

Still not convinced he is one,

but I prefer it to scum

.

And why is that?

I stopped caring about Jesters a long time ago. Let them win, they are anti-town, so better to get them out of the way.

Concerning anything that was posted before Serengeti's bandwagon, please refer to this post for my defense.

Also, why are all those poems (which are nice) posted?

Nobody knows. Cydonia started it after a bandwagon started up on him.

THe penguin and lynx with their ears tight shut,
come up with foul riddles barely better than smut,
and while the reader in his grey robe sees red
all kinds of mystery floats over their head.

This is definitely talking about Serengeti and StrangerCoug, and I can't find any source for it on the internet so he must have written it. #700 is even more obvious.

A Knight without a Muse, loaded up on rum
Maybe Jester, maybe traitor, understood by none
The fans are in the bandstands, the jeers heard by some
Will turn around to bite him on the day he flips to scum

[Empking's Alt]

Er, why are people voting KoC, because of his poems?

PoS: Why do you think I'm lurking?

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

PoS: Why do you think I'm lurking?

Just off the top of my head, the fact that you're lurking comes to mind.

[GnKoichi]

Empking: There was an attack made against KoC, some time around the near lynching of PoS (someone else could do a better job than I of summarizing the attack itself). Instead of defending himself in any way, he flipped out. He self voted, we all pretty much think in emulation (or parody) of PoS. I think he's upset, as was I, that we missed the chance to lynch a player as frustrating as PoS, but this is taking it too far. If his point was that bad players are surviving, he's made it. It's time to be productive again. Otherwise he just looks like scum using a gimmick instead of an actual defense.

[Empking's Alt]

PoS: Why do you think I'm lurking?

Just off the top of my head, the fact that you're lurking comes to mind.

Please give proper answers.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Sure. Do what I did. Go the bottom of the screen, and check out Empking and Empking's Alt combined input. Is that not lurking in plain sight? Your contribution to scum hunting or expression opinions is a big zero.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

And you're touchy about it too.

[Numberfourteen]

Name: Straight G
Flavor: Your a gansterlicious pimp.
Alignment: Town--You win when all non-neutral factions besides the town are dead.
Role: Mason
Passive Abilities
The Shady Lady: Each night, you may speak to the other people who go to The Shady Lady Gentlemen's Club at this quicktopic(http://www.quicktopic.com/42/H/9bnWjUfcej5). The people who attend this fine establishment are orangepenguin, Yosarian2, GnKoichi, Lowell, Penguins of the Sarengeti, Numberfourteen.

There is the Mason PM...

@#14
What's the difference between SSK's posts and Rolf's at the time you wrote post 158?
Also, why did you suddenly appear after =/- 4 days?

I think the main difference is that I have never seen a play style like Rofl's. It seems pretty unanimous among people who have played with him before that that is just the way he plays, so I am over that now.

[BSG]

I'm not sold on Yos' explanation in post 251.
So I would like to know, when this game started, did you or did you not know that you're a mason?

Also a question to PotS, Lowell and Yos. Were you allowed to talk before the game started? Seems you weren't.

I found it especally odd since she had already figured out by this point that I had

misread

my role PM when I first got it.

???


Seems you really enjoy fishing (post 299) Vino...
Statsitics...

Uh, she hasn't outed the whole group.

Not sure if this has been pointed out yet, but perhaps you should look at post 300.


@Penguins
Do you mean #14 instead of OP in post 332 or did I miss something?


H_H, from what do you get a townie vibe regarding Vino?


Post 394 bugs me. Rofl has stated many times already that he thinks that Penguins is town. So I really don't see why it suddenly is FoS worthy.


Policy lynch?! Seriously? Not liking that post.


SSK, I seriously was proud for your behaviour at the start of this game. Please don't go back to your old habit...


posts 400 and 402. Definitly scummy.


I agree with post 427. Mainly due as I saw Crackers and the other game we were in. I really can't see Rofl's play as anti-town as I find it really helpful, although it's not the way i would play.
Also, for those complaining about Rofl's playstyle, you should all listen to Glork:

A few underlying principles:
1) Players -- especially when scum -- like to be comfortable. Bringing pressure that is difficult to respond to pulls them out of their comfort zones, making them react in a way they normally wouldn't react. This makes it significantly more likely that they will say or do something particularly telling of their alignments.
2) In the long-term, players often reveal the most about themselves when acting on limited information. While this maxim generally applies to the notion that D1 and D2 are the most revealing parts of a mafia game, it also applies when dealing with "unexplained votes."
2a) Let's look at the general case of an unexplained vote from a player of unknown alignment. The motivation for a protown player is to discern the intent of the voter, generally in order to obtain their alignment. The motivation of an anti-town player is to discern the intent of the voter (which sometimes involves seeking alignment) and to best utilize the situation to their advantage. There is an important, if subtle, difference. By cultivating our exploration of these differences, we can find new tools to seek and destroy the scumbaggoes amongst us.
2b) Now consider the case where I am a confirmed protown player making an unexplainded vote. In this case, my motivation is very clear. In some way, I am seeking to find scum. Here, I'm actually going to dip into one of my trade secrets and note that protown players tend to have a broader picture of our voter's intent, whereas scums tend to focus more on themselves (or, sometimes, their allies). If the person I'm voting is more concerened with how everyone else reacts than with deflecting my attack, they are usually more likely to be protown. If they immediately seek to bury someone else in accusations, wildly reject my vote/claims outright, or blame-shift, they're more likely to be scum.
3) Taking an alternate approach to scumhunting allows one to take advantage of "weak points" in other players' gameplay. Most mafia is played in the public arena. Players openly debate and discuss who is scum and why. Thus, most people tend to focus most of their attention on growing and evolving as players in this realm of open banter. A couple years ago, I learned that the vast majority of players didn't know how to react to certain circumstances. One such circumtsance was a completely irrational, yet intensely focused onslaught from an established player. This was a very noticeable chink in the mafia community's collective armor, and while you had your Internet Strangers and your Baby Jesuses (the paragons of this style of play), people who effectively played without explanation were very few and far between. Thus, very few players put the necessary time, thought, and effort into ensuring that they new how to interact with these playstyles. Over time, parts of the community evolve, and playing such playstyles shifts and changes just as the overall game meta does. Not only do they not know how to react, and not only do they give more information about themselves, but their weaknesses are actually exploitable, allowing the attacker as an individual to crack other players' shells and expose their soft, fleshy interiors, thus opening the game up for everybody.

Here he explains why unexplained votes are good. The same could be said about calling players scum without saying why. And I agree with Glork in this case.


Post 436. Do you have anything else to add after that read of yours SSK?


Just thought of something. Coug, didn't you complain of being outed as a vig after to many players talked about it? So why are you talking about a vig if you didn't like that in that game? Seems OP already pointed this out.


I so like post 457 and I don't like post 458. This especially goes for the question you ask in that post KoC.


@Vino, how did you get to 7 anti-town roles in post 465?


Ad hom in post 467 by Coug against PotS perhaps? This really raises you in my scumlist. It's also nice to know that you didn't respond to OP about the vig. Perhaps you can do it now as I included it in this post.


Page 20 is up next. However, America's next top model is waiting for me. And after that, it's Project Runway. I think that my read will be finished definitly on wednesday. With some luck tomorrow.

But three things:
Rofl and PotS, any reasons why you started to post poems?
Vino (I'll come back to you at the end of my read), the quoted poem of KoC is about Rofl and PotS.
#14, if I'm correct, I was asking Yos to quote that PM. If this is indeed the case (too lazy to check. See the reasons above why), why did you post the PM?

[Vino]

@Vino, how did you get to 7 anti-town roles in post 465?

She put seven people on her scum list.

Vino (I'll come back to you at the end of my read), the quoted poem of KoC is about Rofl and PotS.

It is about a lynx, which to me says StrangerCoug, not roflcopter, who has a bunny in his avatar. But if you want to cast the lynx as roflcopter anyway I don't disagree that it would be fitting.

This puts Cydonia's poetry squarely in the satirical category, but the more he continues to post it the more I consider the possibility that he may be under a post restriction rule.

[Yosarian2]

I'm not sold on Yos' explanation in post 251.
So I would like to know, when this game started, did you or did you not know that you're a mason?

Correct. I did not realize that until DGB tipped me off with the comment about my role and why was I voting Lowell.

[Vino]

Also, is there a reason you didn't censor the link to the QT, #14?

[Yosarian2]

Er, why are people voting KoC, because of his poems?

ARe you reading the game?

She actually has a good point about KoC.

Why would you say "I'll wait one hour then hammer you"? What, exactally, is "one hour" going to do, KOC?

Also, this:

The annoying thing is, I can't hammer you yet. Need some other bright spark, since you're at L-2, AFAIK. Shame.
At least we agree on something - I can't wait for you to die either, scum.

is really scummy, and this:

I think, if anything, Penguins, surely it should be scummier for me to put you at L-1 than to hammer? Surely the fact I'm willing to wait, and put my neck on the line by hammering, is less cowardly than to just put you at L-1 and wait?
Oh, and I always write "fellow townie", regardless of role, unless I think someone is scum. You really are reaching.

is worse.

KoC, if you are town who thinks she is scum, if you're so sure that you just want to lynch her now and end teh day ASAP, then why aren't you voting for her? Why are you saying "Well, I'll hammer her, but I won't put her at lynch -1". You realize that makes no sense, right? And the second post makes me think that the reason for that is that you think putting her at -1 would look worse then dropping the hammer.

Big

FOS:KoC

. Is likely to turn into a vote if he dosn't have a good reason for the "one hour" thing.

He was acting totally irrationally during the Penguins thing. The whole "I'm going to hammer Penguins unless someone tells me not to in the next hour" was incredibly scummy.

Then, instead of answering my questions, he spazzed out and self voted, and claimed vanillia.

Then, I went back and re-read all of his posts, and saw how totally scummy and useless he's been all game, and how the only thing he's actually called a scumtell when someone else did it was something he soon after did himself.

Looking back at KoC's posts now, I'm pretty happy with voting him.

For example:

FoS: GnKoichi

for his "town or not, you might as well be lynched" comment.
While not a strong scumtell, since I've seen townies get frustrated with idiots before, it is still worrying, since it's essentially an excuse to push a mislynch and say "I did say "even if he is town it helps us".

Which is rather funny, since he later said

I'm almost at the point where I'm pissed off enougfh to policy lynch roflcopter for being an absolute fucktard.

Ugh. Right, you know what?

unvote; Vote roflcopter

Because I'm fed up of you leading the town into a massive circle-jerk about sk masons and how yos is very funny and quite frankly, if I had tits, you'd be getting on them. As it is, the only reason I'm not pulling my hair out is because the chemo will do a quicker job of getting it out. But only just. That's how fucking annoying you are.

Which is almost the exact same thing he just attacked GnKoichi for.

The only other scumhunting he did was a vauge post where he said

Anyway, so, yeah. Vino or Yos for scum, and the Vino lynch could very possibly confirm the presence of scum mason/s. If there are more than 1 scum mason, I'd look at PoS next.

Huh? No reasons, no explination, nothing. The statement makes no sense, on any level, and he never explained any of it.

I see no reason to not lynch KoC today.

Since then, he's absolutly refused to post content in all, and just keep posting in meaningless useless poems rather then defend himself.

Did you really not understand any of this, Emp?

And can someone please tell me why KoC has not been lynched yet?

[Yosarian2]

Also, is there a reason you didn't censor the link to the QT, #14?

Good point.

Lucky there's nothing there yet, we haven't had a chance to talk yet, but we are probably going to need a new quick topic now, we can't use that one now that everyone knows the link.

Mod, should we make another one, or do you want to?

Not that we have much to talk about at night now anyway.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Rofl and PotS, any reasons why you started to post poems?

Contagion?

I very much doubt KoC is post-restricted.

[StrangerCoug]

Just thought of something. Coug, didn't you complain of being outed as a vig after to many players talked about it? So why are you talking about a vig if you didn't like that in that game? Seems OP already pointed this out.

I think you're talking about Open 81. In that game, another player drove me to claim vig when he said that I was at L-3 and implicated me regarding some vig issue that I don't remember. While I tried to avoid talking too much about the vig because I thought I'd give myself away as such, it apparently came to that. I may or may not be a vig in this game, but that game did teach me a lesson, if the lesson comes from after I claimed (

DON'T ANNOUNCE YOUR VIG TARGETS OUT LOUD!

). The issue about directing the vig also came up that game, but I'd have to look at it again to figure out the consensus.

[Vino]

So wait. We are allowed to post PM's. Doesn't this mean that #14 was just confirmed as a townie if the other mason players have one that matches? Surely the mafia masons will have a slightly different one, and if #14 had it, he wouldn't have access to the town one, specifically the "Alignment" line that he was able to reproduce perfectly.

Doesn't this also mean that we are able to confirm one vanilla townie using the same method? I think it may be prudent to discuss who should be the one to post their PM.

[Yosarian2]

So wait. We are allowed to post PM's. Doesn't this mean that #14 was just confirmed as a townie if the other mason players have one that matches? Surely the mafia masons will have a slightly different one, and if #14 had it, he wouldn't have access to the town one, specifically the "Alignment" line that he was able to reproduce perfectly.

Only problem with that line of logic is, the alignment line is also just like that in the vanillia townie PM the mod gave us first post.

[Vino]

No. The wording is different.

Alignment: Neutral--You win if Natirasha is lynched.

versus

Alignment: Town--You win when all non-neutral factions besides the town are dead.

14's matches mine exactly, so he's a confirmed townie to me now, because if he were scum the wording would have been different.

We can confirm a townie with the Flavor: line.

Shit no we can't Natirasha quoted it in the first post. Shitfuck I see what you are saying now. Shitfuck. Nevermind about the whole thing.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

So wait. We are allowed to post PM's. Doesn't this mean that #14 was just confirmed as a townie if the other mason players have one that matches?

Interesting. Yes. I'll have to drop my suspicion on #14.

From my point of view, then, #14, Lowell and myself are the safest townies. That narrows down the field of scum masons to GnKoichi, OrangePenguins, and Yosarian.

At some point, Koichi voted OP, OP voted me, and Yosarian voted Lowell. It's interesting. The three 'less proven' masons, again, from my point of view of knowing my own alignments, all of them voted a fellow mason. My guess is that they had too many player names to remember.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

I concur with the never mind, haha.

[Yosarian2]

On the other hand, #14 may have had to make some kinds of changes in order to make the PM look like a pro-town mason PM. For example, I would think that a scum-mason PM would include names of scum partners somewhere. It seems kind of unlikely to me that #14 would make those changes, and then forget to remove the quicklink URL.

No absolute proof of anything here, of course, but I think I'll consider it a small point in #14's favor.

[Vino]

Upon further thought, if #14's general format matches another mason's then we may be able to confirm him as a pro-town mason. Consider the event where #14 is really a scum and the

real

townie PM looks like this:

Name: Straight G
Flavor: Your a

bombatastic

pimp.
Alignment: Town--You win when all non-neutral factions besides the town are dead.
Role: Mason
Passive Abilities
The Shady Lady: Each night, you may speak to the other people who go to The Shady Lady Gentlemen's Club at this quicktopic(http://www.quicktopic.com/42/H/9bnWjUfcej5). The people who attend this fine establishment are orangepenguin, Yosarian2, GnKoichi, Lowell, Penguins of the Sarengeti, Numberfourteen.

If we can find slight differences, we can establish he's scum. If the flavor and general format from the other mason posts, which weren't in the mod's first post, match #14 then he is confirmed town.

All we need is a majority of the masons to post their agreement that #14's matches and we have confirmed a townie.

[Yosarian2]

(shrug) I donno about "confirm", but here's the real mason PM.

Name: Straight G
Flavor: Your a gansterlicious pimp.
Alignment: Town--You win when all non-neutral factions besides the town are dead.
Role: Mason
Passive Abilities

The Shady Lady

: Each night, you may speak to the other people who go to The Shady Lady Gentlemen's Club at this quicktopic(http://www.quicktopic.com/42/H/9bnWjUfcej5). The people who attend this fine establishment are orangepenguin, Yosarian2, GnKoichi, Lowell, Penguins of the Sarengeti, Numberfourteen.

Confirm In-thread.