Mini 692: Boost Mafia (Game Over!)

[Patrick]

Day 2, Vote Count #9 - Lynching
icemanE (3) <- Green Crayons, Incognito, eldarad
Xtoxm <- Raging Rabbit
Raging Rabbit <- Xtoxm
eldarad <- Huntress

Not voting: Vollkan, TDC, IcemanE
9 alive, rope at 5.

[Xtoxm]

Most of what I saw, his GF's are just "GF abilities" basically both cop and kill immune. One of his was just cop immune, but the scum were the only killers there.

So I would suspect this GF would be both cop and kill immune, if both were present.

Eh, still think Ice is town, that was just to try and convince others.

What can be drawn, I think, is that there is atleast a cop or a kill other than the scum. not very useful given the circumstances, though...

[Green Crayons]

unvote

. I would rather lynch iceman tomorrow after he uses his ability. That way we at least have something to go off of, regardless of his alignment. If he doesn't use his ability tonight, I would be equally happy to lynch him tomorrow, as that would be typical scum biding his time.

Still not liking the Xtoxm hate.

I'd like to know why THREE completely separate-minded individuals (fuzzylightning, RandomGem, and now icemanE) have all SUPPOSEDLY had this role and not ONE of them questioned the validity of Electra's early INFORMATION ROLE claim.

Information about the game = information about a single other player? That's neat. (I disagree.)

I'm going to go back with

vote: Huntress

. Something that has been nagging me for quite some time was when it was either her or Jahundo, she didn't want to vote Jahundo because "I don't just want to vote for the other bandwagon." Or something along those lines. And she was applauded by a few other players at the time for taking such a stance. However, hindsight, as they say, is 20/20. Seeing that Jahundo was godfather, I could easily see that sentiment voiced by fellow scum who didn't want their GF to be lynched D1. Furthermore, a townie has two priorities: 1. lynching scum and 2. not lynching innocents. If it's a head-to-head between one player and other, if that player knows for a fact that they are innocent then they should do everything in their power to ensure their survival - including having the other player lynched instead of themself. While they might be "pretty certain" that the other player is town, they are 100% certain of their own innocence and should always attempt to ensure their own survival. Huntress' play and attitude in the head-to-head vs. the GF totally contradicts this philosophy - something a scumbag would be prone to do if placed in such a position.

And that to the general scum vibes I picked up throughout the thread from her play, and I'm happy with this vote.

[Raging Rabbit]

Filter those posts. In his scum game, the guy only had like 20-something game-related posts and spent the majority of his time lurking with minimal to no scum hunting. In his town game, he had 100+ posts and made relevant game-related discussion. In this game he's already approaching the 100 post mark, and he hasn't even BEEN here the whole time.

So you think the guy's incapable of figuring this meta out and using it to his advantage? Most of his posts have been oneliners, and a lot of them are a result of people asking him question/me arguing with him. And we have something a little stronger than meta-tells here, which is how he

completely contradicted his predeccesor's claim

. Seriously, they go from sthar calling me stupid for not bothering to read his posts and see how obvious it is he has no power other than double vote when boosted, to xtoxm calling me stupid for not realizing the double vote thing is "just the boost". Doesn't anyone see how strong a scumtell this is?

GC, Ice fakeclaimed cop when pressed against the wall. A few posts before that he hinted at a post restriction, when that seemed likely to maybe stop some of the suspicion on him. There's no reason whatsoever for such a role to have not used his action yet, and the "I forgot" excuse is laughable cosidering the time of his replacing in. Don't let an obvious PR fakeclaim scare you out of lynching scum.

If this day doesn't end in either of the obvscums' death, I'm gonna be seriously pissed off.

[eldarad]

I didn't intend to imply that fuzzylightning/RandomGem/Iceman had a post restriction, but rather that they all felt that they were better off keeping quiet as a result of their role.
That could indeed be because they are a cop (although mafia and scum are other likely candidates).

However, iceman suggested in #916 that I was on the right track, but he also says in #1021 that he had forgot what role he had until he had been asked to claim...
So how could his role be affecting his posting rate prior to that?

I am not so sure as to who Ice's scumbuddy might be, although I note the effort RR has gone to in order to try to link Iceman with Xtoxm.

[Raging Rabbit]

I am not so sure as to who Ice's scumbuddy might be, although I note the effort RR has gone to in order to try to link Iceman with Xtoxm.

Other then them being conncected, I'm mostly just saying both are scum. The other guy doesn't have to be scum for me to suspect either, it just happens I very strongly think he is and he makes sense as a scumbuddy. Doesn't xtoxm contradicting sthar's claim effect your read on him in any way?

[Xtoxm]

Didn't contradict anything, stupid bunny...

[icemanE]

My top picks for scum are RR and elderad, primarily because they're so "sure" that Xtoxm are scum. Knowing that I'm not scum makes it easy to see how bullshit their cases are.

[Raging Rabbit]

Didn't contradict anything, stupid bunny...

We've been over this 3 pages ago, you ran out of deflections and resorted to "whatever".


Iceman - how does you "knowing you're not scum" make my focal point against xtoxm stupid?

[Xtoxm]

The annoying thing is, i've got this feeling in the back of my mind that tells me you're a townie tunneling on us. But, bunny has to die.

[TDC]

I see little reason to lynch iceman today as opposed to tomorrow.

However, iceman suggested in #916 that I was on the right track, but he also says in #1021 that he had forgot what role he had until he had been asked to claim...
So how could his role be affecting his posting rate prior to that?

This is an interesting point though.

--

iceman:
Why the fake self-hammer?
Does your PM contain anything about what happens (or could happen) when you get boosted?


--

I'm not sure why people keep commiting to "there's no contradiction" and "proven scum right there" on the Xtoxm issue.

Of course there is a contradiction (or rather, two of them).

1. Clearly sthar's claim implies completeness. (He gave himself a freaking role name, after all). So anything that adds to this (especially if it turns him from "a double voter" into "a double voter and XY") is a contradiction.
This can only be explained by sthar making stupid assumptions (like "trait A was turned into my boost, so trait B is now obsolete"). This requires a certain carelessness from sthar's side.

2. Xtoxm's "sthar only claimed the boost" clearly implies that something that is not "the boost" is missing. The obvious interpretation of this is something that's not a boost at all. The less obvious interpretation is that the words "of this night" are missing. This requires a certain carelessness regarding a) reading his predecessors claim (that, again, had a role name, so was obviously "complete" for anyone who read it and b) phrasing his own post.

I don't see how anyone can say there's no contradiction there. The question is whether it's careless scum or careless town. (No scum would intentionally counter-claim himself, right?).

I'd really like to hear why iceman and GC think he's "obviously town".

--

Xtoxm: Mind actually explaining why you think RR is scum?

--

Incognito: I don't see a conflict between a one-shot cop and a role that gets vague information about the setup. Why do you?

[Xtoxm]

Because he's a bunny wabbit...

[icemanE]

Why the fake self-hammer?

Well I thought it was a real hammer.

Does your PM contain anything about what happens (or could happen) when you get boosted?

Nope. I guess I should ask the mod about that.

[TDC]

Because he's a bunny wabbit...

How convincing.

[Raging Rabbit]

I'm not sure why people keep commiting to "there's no contradiction" and "proven scum right there" on the Xtoxm issue.

Of course there is a contradiction (or rather, two of them).

1. Clearly sthar's claim implies completeness. (He gave himself a freaking role name, after all). So anything that adds to this (especially if it turns him from "a double voter" into "a double voter and XY") is a contradiction.
This can only be explained by sthar making stupid assumptions (like "trait A was turned into my boost, so trait B is now obsolete"). This requires a certain carelessness from sthar's side.

2. Xtoxm's "sthar only claimed the boost" clearly implies that something that is not "the boost" is missing. The obvious interpretation of this is something that's not a boost at all. The less obvious interpretation is that the words "of this night" are missing. This requires a certain carelessness regarding a) reading his predecessors claim (that, again, had a role name, so was obviously "complete" for anyone who read it and b) phrasing his own post.

I don't see how anyone can say there's no contradiction there. The question is whether it's careless scum or careless town. (No scum would intentionally counter-claim himself, right?).

First of all, score one for sanity.

Look at the confidence both sthar and xtoxm displayed about their role. sthar didn't express a shred of doubt about being a potential double voter and nothing but, and xtoxm did the exact same about having additional powers other than "the boost" (which even conflicts with

his own

later claim). If they were town who got careless with reading their PM, they'd have been a whole let self assured. Also, their claims contradict each other way beyond the realms some carelessness can cover.

Just noticed that sthar's claim also conflicts with how he preffered not to be boosted d1, asking us to boost you instead but saying he won't mind if we pick him - he was the obvious target by that point, and hoped to gain some extra town points by being all unselfish about it. A town player who truely had this role would've loved to get boosted, so he could see what the boost does.

[Raging Rabbit]

Either Iceman or xtoxm is soon gonna claim boosting him will clearly give him another investigation - since the claim is a ripped off cop version of Incog's role anyways - and ask us to boost him tomorrow and give him another night to live so he could "investigate" again. Just thought I'd steal their thunder.

As for the fake hammer, that's good for his town act. Had his scumbuddy yell at him to not give this up and give the town another chance to see the truth. How touching.

[Green Crayons]

And we have something a little stronger than meta-tells here, which is how he completely contradicted his predeccesor's claim.

I don't really remember it that way, I guess I would need to go reread the thread. I remember it more as just not exposing the totality of his role.

I'd really like to hear why iceman and GC think he's "obviously town".

Did I say that? (Honest question.) I remember Incog spouting off such strong rhetoric, and me saying something along the lines that Xtox didn't necessarily seem to be scum lying about their role. Though, I'll admit I was a super-strong supporter of sthar - he was more townish to me than his replacement.

GC, Ice fakeclaimed cop when pressed against the wall. A few posts before that he hinted at a post restriction, when that seemed likely to maybe stop some of the suspicion on him. There's no reason whatsoever for such a role to have not used his action yet, and the "I forgot" excuse is laughable cosidering the time of his replacing in. Don't let an obvious PR fakeclaim scare you out of lynching scum.

Here's my issue with iceman. He's played really shitty, that much is abundantly clear. But, to me, it reflects more of a townie whose bored to tears with playing than a scum who is just bad at mafia (the attempted hammer while maintaining his innocence is what changed my opinion to this - usually self-hammering scumbags say something along the lines of "oh well, shit happens."). I also am not too keen on lynching a cop claim with an unused ability, regardless if it's one shot. While I will hammer if we come down to the deadline simply to produce some sort of result for us to work off of come tomorrow, I would be more open to revisiting the iceman lynch tomorrow when we at least have

something

from him. That way we will be in the situation where we gained something: either a 1. lynched scum or 2. a confirmed innocent result.

[icemanE]

I have pm'd the mod asking if I get a boost, but haven't heard back yet, and nothing in my role pm suggests that i do.

[icemanE]

Alright, answers in, I don't get anything from a boost.

[Incognito]

Green Crayons and TDC: Yes, I realize that Electra only claimed to receive information about the town, but she did also mention at least two or three times that she was hoping it was some form of a cop investigation, which means she wasn't entirely sure herself:

@ iLord – I don’t know what kind of information I get,

but I do hope it’s something cop-ish

, and it certainly would be nice if I got scum out of it. :p And no, I don’t think I get some sort of benefit by being boosted earlier (unless I get the info as soon as I’m boosted? I assumed it would just be at night, but it would certainly be nice… I will ask the mod.)

Okay,

I don't get a cop investigation

, sad. I found out things related to game mechanics, but I want to see what sthar says he got, because there are some things I found that might make life easier for him if he's scum and has to fake what boost he got.

I'd think that kind of speculation would at least throw up a partial red flag from at least one of the three people who've shared this role (maybe some general leeriness about Electra's claim) but I see no sign of that. They all either didn't comment on it or really the purest reaction came from fuzzylightning who just seemed to lean town on her.

Alright, answers in, I don't get anything from a boost.

The mod seriously answered that question? I highly doubt this.

[icemanE]

The mod seriously answered that question? I highly doubt this.

No, he said he couldn't tell me any more than what he said in the original pm, and there was nothing about a boost in the original pm. I thereby inferred that I don't have a boost.

[Xtoxm]

You're such a tard...My PM says nothing about a boost either, and I also asked the mod, and got a pretty much exact same reply. You probably get another investigation on boost.

[TDC]

I'd really like to hear why iceman and GC think he's "obviously town".

Did I say that? (Honest question.) I remember Incog spouting off such strong rhetoric, and me saying something along the lines that Xtox didn't necessarily seem to be scum lying about their role. Though, I'll admit I was a super-strong supporter of sthar - he was more townish to me than his replacement.

Hm, the "obvious town" line actually came from Incognito and was based on meta.
Still, you've completely avoided talking about the problems with Xtoxm's claim.

--

You're such a tard...My PM says nothing about a boost either, and I also asked the mod, and got a pretty much exact same reply. You probably get another investigation on boost.

Your PM, however, supposedly implies that the characteristics get turned into an ability by way of boost.
I would think that iceman's PM would similarly imply that he could acquire more potions or whatever. Clearly, that thought never entered his mind.
I primarily asked to see whether he would take up the offer and claim to be boostable to potentially prolong his life.. which he didn't.

Instead you're taking it up for him?
(Or are you now claiming that the fact that boosting you gives you abilities related to your characteristics is NOT somewhat obvious from your role PM, which would contradict sthar's play yet another time?)

[TDC]

Forgot Incognito's post:

I'd think that kind of speculation would at least throw up a partial red flag from at least one of the three people who've shared this role (maybe some general leeriness about Electra's claim) but I see no sign of that. They all either didn't comment on it or really the purest reaction came from fuzzylightning who just seemed to lean town on her.

Well, yes and no.
If you see someone speculating that they might have your role, but you think they don't have your role*, then why make a fuss? (Especially if you think they're town, but I guess neither of them ever said anything like that.)

* I mean, she had claimed she would get "information about the town". How anyone could get the idea this could be a cop investigation is truly beyond me.

[Xtoxm]

Your PM, however, supposedly implies that the characteristics get turned into an ability by way of boost.

Putting words in my mouth?

NO IT DOESN'T