Sushi Mafia! Game Over

[DrippingGoofball]

Plum, of all of those scrambling to find the right/easiest lynch in the wake of the Santos lynch, you're the only one who seemed to actually be trying to do so

in a way diagnostic of alignment

based on yesterday's play.

Um...... you lost me here. Can you explain that in

simpler

terms?

I'll explain it. OGML is trying to suggest that his strategic lurking is a form of scum hunting.

He's going to lurk while we wagon him, and then at the end of the day, he'll call scum on most of the players on his own lynch.

Besides calling Plum 'town,' he seems to be carefully avoiding association or disassociation with players - possibly to give us as little to work with tomorrow as possible, if he flips scum.

[Talitha]

I'm not sure whet the vote count is, and I'm not certain OGML is town, but how 'bout we lynch someone who DIDN'T vote to lynch a scumbag yesterday.

OGML is a good / well-known player in a game that's likely to have more than one killing group. I doubt he'll still be alive at endgame. We don't need to waste a lynch on him.

[Simenon]

Vote Count

OhGodMyLife (6)- Azhrei, Riceballtail, Slicey, Narsis, Jebus, DrippingGoofball
Pear Bear (2)- Farkshinsoup, Plum
Flameaxe (1)- Talitha
Not Voting (Seraphim,Flameaxe, CounselWolf, sirdanilot, ortolan, raider8169, alvinz95, sentata, hp [leaves], Pear Bear, OhGodMyLife, Hybris, Microphone_Kirby)

Prods are being figured out shortly. sirdanilot is on VA and requested temporary replacement, but I don't want to deal with that.

[Azhrei]

I'm not sure whet the vote count is, and I'm not certain OGML is town, but how 'bout we lynch someone who DIDN'T vote to lynch a scumbag yesterday.

OGML is a good / well-known player in a game that's likely to have more than one killing group. I doubt he'll still be alive at endgame. We don't need to waste a lynch on him.

So what are you saying? We shouldn't lynch OGML for the 2 reasons, them being that he voted for Santos yesterday and is experienced? So we should just ignore all the scummy things he's done, and lynch someone else, because he's experienced and voted for Santos.

Come on. Ever heard of bussing? If OGML flips scum, I'm gonna be looking verrry closely at you.

Plum, of all of those scrambling to find the right/easiest lynch in the wake of the Santos lynch, you're the only one who seemed to actually be trying to do so

in a way diagnostic of alignment

based on yesterday's play.

Um...... you lost me here. Can you explain that in

simpler

terms?

I'll explain it. OGML is trying to suggest that his strategic lurking is a form of scum hunting.

He's going to lurk while we wagon him, and then at the end of the day, he'll call scum on most of the players on his own lynch.

Besides calling Plum 'town,' he seems to be carefully avoiding association or disassociation with players - possibly to give us as little to work with tomorrow as possible, if he flips scum.

Yeah, that's what I thought too. Doesn't exactly scream 'town' to me. "I'm not scum so most/all of the people voting for me are scum" isn't exactly a great defence.

[Farkshinsoup]

I don't know, I'm not feeling the OGML hate. So he switched abruptly to Santos. Big deal. All that shows is that he was paying attention. I would like to see some scumhunting from him today, though. It feels like he's given up, and I dislike it when players surrender - it makes them an easy target.

[Talitha]

unvote: flameaxe
vote: Azhrei

You did

exactly

the same thing yesterday that you are voting OGML for today.. i.e. the turnaround from M-K to Santos. The only difference is that yours was less blatant and attracted less attention. So who is more likely scum? The one who attracts everyone's attention for aggressive play, then changes his vote when new evidence comes to light? Or the bandwagoner, who follows the crowd?

If you flip townie, I'm going to be looking very closely at OGML tomorrow.

Come on. Ever heard of bussing? If OGML flips scum, I'm gonna be looking verrry closely at you.

These comments make me feel pretty happy that Azhrei is scum. He's not thinking deeply about the game, just playing to a lazy formula and setting up his vote for the next day in advance, in case there's no convenient bandwagon to follow.

[Seraphim]

You did

exactly

the same thing yesterday that you are voting OGML for today.. i.e. the turnaround from M-K to Santos. The only difference is that yours was less blatant and attracted less attention. So who is more likely scum? The one who attracts everyone's attention for aggressive play, then changes his vote when new evidence comes to light? Or the bandwagoner, who follows the crowd?

If you flip townie, I'm going to be looking very closely at OGML tomorrow.

Come on. Ever heard of bussing? If OGML flips scum, I'm gonna be looking verrry closely at you.

These comments make me feel pretty happy that Azhrei is scum. He's not thinking deeply about the game, just playing to a lazy formula and setting up his vote for the next day in advance, in case there's no convenient bandwagon to follow.

This.

Vote: Azhrei

Oh, hi all. I've been paying attention, I just haven't had the time to make a post since real life has been killing me lately. So yeah, I'm back.

[Simenon]

Replacing alvinz95

Prodding Flameaxe, Counselwolf

[Azhrei]

unvote: flameaxe
vote: Azhrei

You did

exactly

the same thing yesterday that you are voting OGML for today.. i.e. the turnaround from M-K to Santos. The only difference is that yours was less blatant and attracted less attention. So who is more likely scum? The one who attracts everyone's attention for aggressive play, then changes his vote when new evidence comes to light? Or the bandwagoner, who follows the crowd?

I did not do the exact same thing as OGML yesterday. As I said in my original post, OGML hounded M_K to no end, and acted like all other cases were nothing, right up until the last moment with Santos. Now, I'm definitely not saying that the claim was a bad reason to vote Santos - and I never have - because it wasn't. It was the manner in which OGML made such a turnaround that I found scummy.

If you flip townie, I'm going to be looking very closely at OGML tomorrow.

Come on. Ever heard of bussing? If OGML flips scum, I'm gonna be looking verrry closely at you.

These comments make me feel pretty happy that Azhrei is scum. He's not thinking deeply about the game, just playing to a lazy formula and setting up his vote for the next day in advance, in case there's no convenient bandwagon to follow.

So what, I'm not allowed to note when people are being overaggressive or defending other players? If someone defends someone, and the person who was being defended turns out scum, then the defender deserves a closer look, now don't they?

Same thing goes when someone is being overly aggressive towards someone - as OGML was being yesterday. If the person who was the brunt of the aggression turned out town, then the aggressor deserves a closer look, don't they?

[Microphone_Kirby]

OGML is a good / well-known player...

... If you say so. How would I know... or, true or not, why should I care?

...in a game that's likely to have more than one killing group. I doubt he'll still be alive at endgame. We don't need to waste a lynch on him.

Really......?
Geez... this post is giving me some really bad vibes...

[Pear Bear]

Plum, [...] I think you're very likely town.

This will be very interesting later on if OGML flips scum. I already suspect plum for a few fallable reasons, one of them being that whenever someone votes against me, and I am town, they automatically jump into my line of sight as potential scum, because theyre voting to lynch town. Also, in nearly every mafia game Ive played, those players who you think are "likely town" and do the best job at looking the part of a townie, end up being scum. And Plum is doing a great job at looking pro-town.

vote OGML

for the time being.

[Talitha]

Azhrei, I made note of the difference between yours and OGML's behaviour in my post. "hounded to no end"? You are exaggerating here... but even so, aggressively pursuing a player you suspect of being scum is pretty townish behaviour in a deadlined game.

If the person who was the brunt of the aggression turned out town, then the aggressor deserves a closer look, don't they?

Not especially. From my experience, these people are very often town, while the scum behave more like you have.

MK - you are frustrating to play mafia with. The "bad vibes" is the only thing you posted that is relevant to the game. Feel free to vote me if you really think I'm scum.

[Azhrei]

Azhrei, I made note of the difference between yours and OGML's behaviour in my post.

"hounded to no end"? You are exaggerating here... but even so, aggressively pursuing a player you suspect of being scum is pretty townish behaviour in a deadlined game.

If the person who was the brunt of the aggression turned out town, then the aggressor deserves a closer look, don't they?

Not especially. From my experience, these people are very often town, while the scum behave more like you have.

You did? I saw you say 'exactly the same', and that implies that there is no difference. Now, unless we're not both speaking the same language, you've just contradicted your self.

Also, I disagree that I was exaggerating, but I suppose that is just your opinion. From what I saw, OGML really did hound MK, but you might've seen it differently.

That said, I'll read your first post again. I see. You contradicted your 'exactly' just after you said it.

"The only difference is that yours was less blatant and attracted less attention."

And that's not even the difference I pointed out.


As to aggressive players tending to be town in your experience, I guess that's just a difference of opinion between us. In my experience, players who have been very aggressive have tended to be scum.

MK - you are frustrating to play mafia with. The "bad vibes" is the only thing you posted that is relevant to the game. Feel free to vote me if you really think I'm scum.

I agree that he's frustrating to play with, but he does actually have a point. We've not actually seen any evidence of multiple killing groups yet, as there was only one NK. So why would you say that was likely? I can see where he's getting his 'bad vibes'.

[Talitha]

Azhrei, what is your experience by the way.. have you played games elsewhere?

Why likely? Because it is always likely that a 24 player game has more than one killing party. And then we have Santos named as a "pre-cooked" goon - which is suggestive (but not conclusive) of other scum.

[Azhrei]

I've played 3 games on another site, and 1 game here (all completed) and I'm in the middle of 3 on here (this one included) and 1 on the other site.

And yeah, while I can see where you're coming from with multiple killing groups, I can also see why MK was getting his 'bad vibes'. Myself, I'm not quite sure what to make of your speculation. I think it might be a bit of null-tell.

[Talitha]

I'd be interested in hearing if MK was referring to the killing group speculation, or something else in the post when he mentioned his 'bad vibes'.

[Azhrei]

I'd be interested in hearing if MK was referring to the killing group speculation, or something else in the post when he mentioned his 'bad vibes'.

Hm, I didn't think of that. I just assumed he meant that group speculation. Clarifcation would be good MK.

[Farkshinsoup]

Plum, [...] I think you're very likely town.

This will be very interesting later on if OGML flips scum. I already suspect plum for a few fallable reasons, one of them being that whenever someone votes against me, and I am town, they automatically jump into my line of sight as potential scum, because theyre voting to lynch town. Also, in nearly every mafia game Ive played, those players who you think are "likely town" and do the best job at looking the part of a townie, end up being scum. And Plum is doing a great job at looking pro-town.

vote OGML

for the time being.

Translation: I have specious reasons for suspecting Plum (OMGUS and Too Townie). I'm going to jump on this wagon over here, not so much because I think he's scum, but because it will help to clear up my thoughts about this other guy who's voting me. Oh, and I'll slap "for the time being" on there so that I can back out and put my vote somewhere else if this wagon falls apart or I attract too much attention.

This is a sad attempt at scum hunting from someone who has no interest in finding scum.

[DrippingGoofball]

OGML is a good / well-known player...

... If you say so. How would I know... or, true or not, why should I care?

...in a game that's likely to have more than one killing group. I doubt he'll still be alive at endgame. We don't need to waste a lynch on him.

Really......?
Geez... this post is giving me some really bad vibes...

Good catch.

In other news, since I see nothing noticeably scummy about Azhrei, or even nothing noticeable about Azhrei, I can't help but think Azhrei is being bus'ed.

[DrippingGoofball]

Why likely? Because it is always likely that a 24 player game has more than one killing party. And then we have Santos named as a "pre-cooked" goon - which is suggestive (but not conclusive) of other scum.

Really. I assumed that the game has pre-cooked sushi against raw sushi. Why would you think otherwise, ESPECIALLY since THERE WAS ONLY ONE NIGHTKILL????

[Microphone_Kirby]

I'd be interested in hearing if MK was referring to the killing group speculation, or something else in the post when he mentioned his 'bad vibes'.

Hm, I didn't think of that. I just assumed he meant that group speculation. Clarifcation would be good MK.

Yes, I was primarily referring to the fact that she mentioned the possibility of more than one killing group... but everything else that was said - "doubtful he'll be alive at endgame" and "we don't need to waste a lynch" - added to those bad vibes.

[Pear Bear]

Plum, [...] I think you're very likely town.

This will be very interesting later on if OGML flips scum. I already suspect plum for a few fallable reasons, one of them being that whenever someone votes against me, and I am town, they automatically jump into my line of sight as potential scum, because theyre voting to lynch town. Also, in nearly every mafia game Ive played, those players who you think are "likely town" and do the best job at looking the part of a townie, end up being scum. And Plum is doing a great job at looking pro-town.

vote OGML

for the time being.

Translation: I have specious reasons for suspecting Plum (OMGUS and Too Townie). I'm going to jump on this wagon over here, not so much because I think he's scum, but because it will help to clear up my thoughts about this other guy who's voting me. Oh, and I'll slap "for the time being" on there so that I can back out and put my vote somewhere else if this wagon falls apart or I attract too much attention.

This is a sad attempt at scum hunting from someone who has no interest in finding scum.

And this is a perfect example of how my newb tendancies and inexperience are being horribly misinterpereted for scum behaviour, by more experienced players who are either confusing themselves, or going for an easy kill.

I was simply putting my thoughts out there.

[OhGodMyLife]

I'm a bit divided on that one given my belief that if Flameaxe had been Santos' buddy, he would have bus'ed him so hard our heads would spin.

Your preconceptions are dangerous. Unlike you, not everybody loves the day one bus.

OGML was resisting the Santos wagon by continuing to be very aggressive on the M_K wagon. It's like he was screaming to us, "No!!! Look HERE!!! Lynch M_K! What are you guys doing! M_K! M_K!" OK that's a bit of hyperbole for humor's sake. But then he switched to Santos anyway, when it looked like Santos' lynch was inevitable.

I switched to the Santos wagon when Santos very clearly outed himself as scum. I pushed the M_K wagon like I did because I believed I was onto something and this game has strict two week deadlines. Aggression is required.

I can see OGML busing Santos. He was pushing hard for a M_K lynch and ignored the scum tells that even I picked up on. Im happy with a OGML lynch however I wish to read back Day one and see if I notice anything else.

In other words you're gonna wait and make sure voting for me is a safe, widely accepted move. Your self-deprecation should not be fooling anyone here.

Pear Bear has done some scummy stuff as I outlined in an earlier post, but his question isn't all that surprising given that he's a noob.

Noob defense coming from the noob himself is one thing, but why on Earth are

you

invoking the noob defense for him?

Not sure whether to vote for OGML or Pear Bear. Both seem extremely scummy to me.

Wiffle waffle. Sitting on that fence can't be too comfortable.

I'd... love to hear an explanation for why OGML's "less suspicious". Personally, he's on the top of my list, mainly because of that rather sudden change-of-vote from me to Santos...

Well, I can see you're still sore about yesterday.

... I'll need to think about the arguments given on the other people more carefully before I comment about them.

See my comments to raider. You're just waiting to figure out what the safe direction is going to be.

Is OGML keeping a low profile in the hope that we'll forget about him and build cases against players that are currently more active?

Yet you don't seem overly concerned with where Flameaxe is in all of this. Hmm...

VOTE:Riceballtail

Obviously sushi-scum. Speedlynch GO!

Rice, you got flack for this early on. Whatever, the self vote means nothing to me. What I find strange about this post is your tone. I would describe it as playful? Maybe a little reckless. That seems out of character for you. I don't think I've seen that before. Not sure it means anything, but I wanted to bring it up. Care to comment?

100% humorous vote during what I thought was random voting stage. My name happens to fit into the theme fairly well, and couldn't resist make the joke.

Yes rice is active lurking.

Alright, this is long overdue.

Vote:OGML

So focused on lynching MK (

which in hindsight was not a very good case and I regret voting for him

), the "buddying" between MK and Raider, which he never discussed and nobody was able to figure out, as far as I remember. Then just jumping on the Santos wagon at the end after pushing so hard all day for an MK lynch.

I guess you saw there was enough support to make this an acceptable move. Re: bolded section I love how you try to make it seem like the M_K wagon is 1) entirely my doing and 2) definitely a miswagon. Given that this is a large game and the dead mafia had a prefix associated with him, its far from guaranteed that M_K is town even if he isn't a part of Santos' scumgroup.

Im good with a OGML lynch however I wish to sum up my case before I place my vote.

Ya huh, I'm waiting. You're a bit more cautious than Slicey, I see.

If I read correctly then Flameaxe is being attacked for defending Santos' claim. I didn't think the claim was that unreasonable myself, seemed a perfectly possible role. The reason I voted him was simply that he basically directly contradicted what the mod had just said.

Simultaneously defending dead scum and Flameaxe, nice one.

I need to look at hp[leaves] position on Santos' wagon to see if I can make more of a case against him. OGML also needs a re-read.

Translation: I need to make it appear as though I'm considering doing something else with my vote, but eventually I'll just join the OGML wagon.

And an obligatory

FoS: OhGodMyLife

Still with the smarmy comments and no real help or answers?

Why don't you just grow a pair and vote me? Your FoS is worthless.

now OGML I definitely do see as scummy based on his play yesterday.

Lame. You don't even explain what about my play yesterday you find scummy. You're just getting in while the going is good.

Chapter 2: Dousing the Flameaxe

The Case: All I found that basically, Flameaxe weakly defended Santos and gut feelings...

My opinion: I can't peg a thing on Flameaxe. The weak defense on Santos is exactly that; it doesn't mean much to me. I'd want Flameaxe to post more, and something that we can use; most of his posts are useless so far for info gathering.

Geez, all these scummy people want us to ignore Flameaxe, I wonder why?

Hypothetical question for a pro-town mafia vet:

If someone (town or scum) were to do something really obvious and scummy, and another player takes the bait, believes the lie and thinks the person who did the scummy thing is obviously pro-town (or so they say) should that player be looked at as suspicious? or just stupid?

This may or may not pertain to this specific game.

IMO, stupid. Both town and scum set traps, and both town and scum fall for them. It makes you stupid, and possibly an alignment tell from that, but always stupid.

Rice is active lurking some more.

Why is M_K so high up? That lyncher/jester thing was in the random stage, and I'm honestly seeing that as a random comment. I really don't see why that part is getting brought back again and again.

Playing defense for M_K...

OGML's strategic lurking, when in jeopardy, confirms that he is scum.

vote: OGML

But you're still ignoring Flameaxe. Whats with that?

We're almost at the threshhold where I'll be able to nail all the scum just based on my wagon. Hint: DGB is not one of them.

Well, I may have been wrong about DGB. I doubt she's Santos' scumbuddy, but if there's a second scumgroup you can bet she's in it.

Plum, of all of those scrambling to find the right/easiest lynch in the wake of the Santos lynch, you're the only one who seemed to actually be trying to do so

in a way diagnostic of alignment

based on yesterday's play.

Um...... you lost me here. Can you explain that in

simpler

terms?

No. Well, ok. Basically, she seems like she's really trying to ascertain alignment, whereas most of the rest of the people voting me seem to just be doing it because its easy.

unvote: flameaxe
vote: Azhrei

You did

exactly

the same thing yesterday that you are voting OGML for today.. i.e. the turnaround from M-K to Santos. The only difference is that yours was less blatant and attracted less attention. So who is more likely scum? The one who attracts everyone's attention for aggressive play, then changes his vote when new evidence comes to light? Or the bandwagoner, who follows the crowd?

If you flip townie, I'm going to be looking very closely at OGML tomorrow.

Come on. Ever heard of bussing? If OGML flips scum, I'm gonna be looking verrry closely at you.

These comments make me feel pretty happy that Azhrei is scum. He's not thinking deeply about the game, just playing to a lazy formula and setting up his vote for the next day in advance, in case there's no convenient bandwagon to follow.

Tally wins.

Plum, [...] I think you're very likely town.

This will be very interesting later on if OGML flips scum. I already suspect plum for a few fallable reasons, one of them being that whenever someone votes against me, and I am town, they automatically jump into my line of sight as potential scum, because theyre voting to lynch town. Also, in nearly every mafia game Ive played, those players who you think are "likely town" and do the best job at looking the part of a townie, end up being scum. And Plum is doing a great job at looking pro-town.

vote OGML

for the time being.

Translation: I have specious reasons for suspecting Plum (OMGUS and Too Townie). I'm going to jump on this wagon over here, not so much because I think he's scum, but because it will help to clear up my thoughts about this other guy who's voting me. Oh, and I'll slap "for the time being" on there so that I can back out and put my vote somewhere else if this wagon falls apart or I attract too much attention.

This is a sad attempt at scum hunting from someone who has no interest in finding scum.

Farkinsoup wins.

In other news, since I see nothing noticeably scummy about Azhrei, or even nothing noticeable about Azhrei, I can't help but think Azhrei is being bus'ed.

You just love to talk about bussing. It makes it so much easier when you plant the ideas in peoples heads before your scumpartners get lynched, huh?

Really. I assumed that the game has pre-cooked sushi against raw sushi. Why would you think otherwise, ESPECIALLY since THERE WAS ONLY ONE NIGHTKILL????

Really? In a game this big, you don't think there's likely to be at least one more source of nightkills, and roles that interfere with those nightkills? You would like us to just keep hunting for Santos' scumpartners, wouldn't you?

And this is a perfect example of how my newb tendancies and inexperience are being horribly misinterpereted for scum behaviour, by more experienced players who are either confusing themselves, or going for an easy kill.

I was simply putting my thoughts out there.

Ahhh, the noob defense.

---

Lets see, to sum up - there is very likely more than one mafia group. DGB is in it. Its probably got most of Flameaxe, Pear Bear, Ortolan, M_K and raider in it.

Also scummy, somewhat independent of the DGB nucleus of evil, are Narsis, Azhrei, Slicey and most significantly Riceballtail, who hasn't done anything today.

Putting my vote where it will be most helpful in leading to a lynch today.

Vote: Pear Bear

[Flameaxe]

Research projects, essays, film schedule insanity (Which by the way

Sim:

It's only going to get worse next week. Production deadline Friday, and we're not exactly on schedule), etc all equal a lack of focus for more than three minutes a night on scum. I'll be able to get around to something tomorrow.

[ortolan]

I need to look at hp[leaves] position on Santos' wagon to see if I can make more of a case against him. OGML also needs a re-read.

Translation: I need to make it appear as though I'm considering doing something else with my vote, but eventually I'll just join the OGML wagon.

Way to be paranoid. For the record I only determined to re-read you because you'd earned a decent number of votes. I hadn't really been paying attention to you otherwise. But I certainly could vote you now.

If I read correctly then Flameaxe is being attacked for defending Santos' claim. I didn't think the claim was that unreasonable myself, seemed a perfectly possible role. The reason I voted him was simply that he basically directly contradicted what the mod had just said.

Simultaneously defending dead scum and Flameaxe, nice one.

Oh, sorry, I guess anyone who claims a role which is actually in the wiki should be policy lynched for it:

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Actor

Plus you and Jebus pseudo-attacking me for "beating around the bush" with Santos is an ungodly stretch.. I actually went out of the way to

confirm

via the mod that he was scum before voting him. Apparently it's scummy to not quicklynch someone who claims a role in the wiki nowadays.

You're not my number one wagon though.

Vote: hp[leaves]

See Post 251.

Subsequently, 262:

I think you misunderstood me. When replying to sirdanilot, I was saying I wasn't going to defend myself because I all had to protect myself was a meta defense.

On the vote/fos thing, I think I should change my playstyle a bit.

I like the pressure on Santos; but I don't think he's that scummy to have another vote on.

Unvote, Vote OGML

An offer to change his playstyle for me. Hmm. Null-tell.

Drawing attention to the pressure purposes of a vote simply serves to negate them.

To be honest I don't see any greatly increased chance of a link between hp[leaves] and Santos. He is scummy otherwise, however. And I agree that the prefix "Precooked" suggests there may well be multiple mafia factions anyhow, which means he doesn't need to be Santos' buddy to be scum. And I don't even think hp[leaves] has posted today? I like this vote, even better than the OMGL wagon.