Mafia 90-Lolwat? Mafia, Game Over, Mafia Win

[Yosarian2]

Well, seeing as we have 11 days before the deadline, I don't mind giving Litral's replacement a few more days to read through the game first. if he dosn't say something soon, though, I wouldn't mind just lynching him.

[ThAdmiral]

still reading but I see people want to lynch me even though I haven't even had a chance to say anything .

As far as I can tell so far the only thing people are saying about me/litral is that we are "scummy"...which is pretty hard to defend against. If anyone wants to write up an actual case I will respond as well as I can (obviously I can't explain everything litral did), and am willing to claim if necessary. I don't have the flavor yet, but I'm getting it off natirasha.

[GnKoichi]

I can't speak for everyone, but the reason I'd like to lynch Litral/You came in this post:

I know you guys keep mentioning me somehow, but I stopped reading the argument when people started talking about misunderstanding the misunderstanding of misunderstandings... Is there any question directed at me or my comments?

Lowell's opinion is exactly mine I got weak scum vibes from StrangerCoug earlier (because of all the strange misunderstandings and several rather pointless posts), but they have not amounted to anything.

So...

unvote, vote: Numberfourteen

. Hey. Speak up.

He admits to trying to use Lowell's anxiousness to start a random bandwagon. Randwagoning (yes, I'm coining a new term, because I'm tired of typing random bandwagoning in this topic [yes, it took me even longer to type this explanation]) is scummy. There's no pro-town side to this action.

After Number14 responds, we get this post from Litral:

Numberfourteen, that opinion of roflcopter is not a weak opinion at all. It is the sort of thing we would like to hear.

Unfortunately for you, because of that, I'm going to keep my vote.

I don't see any way to read this except as pure scum. He pushed 14 for lurking, then 14 posts and gives good opinions, and Litral says that's his new reason for voting him. Litral creates a situation where, no matter what 14 had done, Litral was going to say it was a reason to vote for him. Since then, he's been completely unable to defend himself, and seems to me like scum who got caught with his hand in the cookie jar really early and decided to say "forget this" and just wait until he got replaced.

Others may have more/different reasons, but that's my reasons. Now, I don't expect you to defend yourself for Litral's actions. I think it would be pretty odd if you did, frankly. I want to hear your analysis of the game, the major players, the different wagons that have come and gone, and who you think is Public Enemy #1. Normally I would say take your time, but I'm worried about our reads on people getting tainted as the deadline approaches (as in, they can excuse their actions away by "it's 24 hours from the deadline, so I'm just doing this"), so, instead, hurry. Get a good read through done in a few hours, keep notes, post 'em, and generally try to survive this trial by fire.

That, or we could just lynch you.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

ThAdmiral, if you would have started to HUNT SCUM soon after your entry into the game, I would have been more willing to peg you as a townie. But the delays in reading, and the 'how can I possibly defend myself' hints that you are discouraged because you replaced into a scum player slot, that's in jeopardy.

[roflcopter]

yep, litral/admiral is scum, carry on

[Natirasha]

I am issuing a statement here.

Thadmiral has not recieved an actual role pm. He has recieved his actual role, but no flavor or anything that usually goes into a role pm.

This will be the case until I get computer with the role pms on it back.

[Head_Honcho]

Cops?

I'm assuming this is in response to the 'no way to clear masons'. Do masons not investigate as scum in this game? I thought that was how it always worked.

[ThAdmiral]

ok the delays in me reading is because I replaced in to a number of games at once.
Probably not advisable, but I'm catching up and once I am up to date I will be able to manage fine.

Also on the not-scum hunting thing - I generally am not known for my pursuit of scum at the best of times so me not immediately doing it as soon as I entered this game is a null-tell. I've got some time now, though, so expect a summary/case soon (as in within the next couple of hours).

[ThAdmiral]

After a pretty unexciting discussion about whether bandwagoning is good or bad, and also an unexciting discussion about misunderstandings, rofl foses gnkoichi. He follows it up with:

Rofl, are you FoSing me for the quote wall? If so, why me and not the two people after me? If not, why FoS me without giving a reason?

not for the quote wall, that would be infantile. and i'd like to see if anyone else sees what i see before giving reasons.

I hate it when people say stuff like this.
At best it's bad play, at worst it's distancing or simply scum mud-slinging.

There are also numerous posts by alvin during this period in which he appears to be buddying with rofl. So scum points there.

OH MY GOD! Coug, please read more carefully.

I'm trying. (In fact, I went back and made sure that I was already voting MafiaSSK before I did so.)

Yos2 was doing a paraphrasing of you not telling you what to do.

hey look more information instead of analysis. why aren't there more votes on this scum yet?

rofl brings up iioa (an overrated scum tell at the best of times) again having done it a few times before. He also has that annoying tendency to tunnel on people displayed here with the last sentence. He will later do that with litral/me (the funny thing about these tunneling players is that they are almost always wrong and then when they are proven wrong they just pretend it never happened).

There is then talk about the ills of a "lurker wagon" (i.e. 2 votes by litral and lowel) which, it must be said, got number 14 talking.

(by the way I will not deny litral was a bit...well he seemed to find it hard to express himself. I think what he was trying to say initially is that if number14 could make post which clearly showed he was keeping up with the game why didn't he make that post earlier instead of when he was called out for it, which is a somewhat ok point)

rofl comes in around now and posts:

this game gets my full and undivided attention a la mañana

i agree that lurkerhunting is v scummy, especially with so much else going on in the game

which seems like he wants to be in with the populist opinion. In keeping with this he then votes litral a few posts later.
(by the way what ever happened to the obvscum ssk? and what was it he saw about gnkoichi?)

for some reason penguins also starts buddying with rofl.

then the masons get outed. And vino makes as big a slip as I've seen.


Ok this is taking a lot longer than I thought (was distracted by tv ). Will continue tomorrow but my main choices for scum are rofl and vino. If I had to choose I would choose vino. Even though there is a lot of small things about rofl I don't like, the slip is a major scum-tell against vino.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

And vino makes as big a slip as I've seen.

I have to admit that the suspense is killing me.

[GnKoichi]

Hey, look, Admiral is town. Didn't see that coming.

[Vino]

And vino makes as big a slip as I've seen.

I have to admit that the suspense is killing me.

He's talking about that time I was interpreted to have implied that I knew how many scum masons there were, when I was actually referring to things that everybody else had said four times already. He's just catching up so give him some slack. Admiral, read this.

That said, I'm particularly astonished at Admiral's post, it is decidedly pro-town. The duality of Litral's behavior versus Admiral's is perplexing.

Honcho, I don't know, my point is, there's ways of clearing out scum masons. Even if (in the crude scenario) a vig or sk or opposing scum faction should kill two scum masons then we can be reasonably sure that the remaining masons are town.

[roflcopter]

whats so decidedly pro-town about admiral calling me scum like in every other game we've ever been in together?

i haven't been scum in a game with thadmiral yet

[GnKoichi]

Rofl, bringing up other games as the VERY FIRST THING you use to defend yourself is basically admitting that you have NOTHING to defend yourself with in this game.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

Rofl, bringing up other games as the VERY FIRST THING you use to defend yourself is basically admitting that you have NOTHING to defend yourself with in this game.

What's wrong with that, and why is Empking still alive?

[GnKoichi]

Really, PotS, that's what you're going to comment on? No thoughts on my Vino case after I reworded it three times for you? No thoughts on Admiral's first post? No? You're just going to continue this playstyle? Really? And then defend it when you get called out on it? Really? And then attack other players for doing similar things? REALLY!?

[Vino]

It's a weak case, that's why she's not commenting on it.

I'm beginning to become wary of the deadline due to this group's inability to come to any coherent consensus on anything. Today is the 8th, deadline is the 18th, and we're no closer now than we were ten days ago.

Mod, last vote count was in January, again please.

Unvote, Vote: Empking and his Alts

for lack of content.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Mod - I will be absent from the site between the 14th and 22nd, due to unavoidable circumstances.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

It's a weak case, that's why she's not commenting on it.

'xactly.

[Knight of Cydonia]

...And this is why I wanted to hammer PotS. Because she's actually ADMITTING her case is weak, and somehow getting away with it.

[Penguins of the Serengeti]

...And this is why I wanted to hammer PotS. Because she's actually ADMITTING her case is weak, and somehow getting away with it.

What are you talking about? I said that Koichi's case against Vino is weak; I tried to 'get it' but I don't. Though ThAdmiral seems to see it (though I'm unsure if the scumtell he speaks of is the same as the one Koichi believes he has caught)... what does this have to do with your eagerness to hammer me?

[Knight of Cydonia]

Ugh. consequence of speed-reading: thought you were admitting your case on Emp was weak.

[orangepenguin]

I think the case on Empking (+ Alts) aren't weak at all. Keeping my vote there too.

I don't think GnK's is really that weak, but I don't think Vino is that scummy, therefore, I think the case is just kind of bad in general. If that make sense.

[ThAdmiral]

Rofl, bringing up other games as the VERY FIRST THING you use to defend yourself is basically admitting that you have NOTHING to defend yourself with in this game.

What's wrong with that, and why is Empking still alive?

Are you and rofl the same person?
Also for the record I'm in the "outing the masons was a bad play" camp.

@ rofl: what did ever happen to obvscum ssk? And also what did you see in gnkoichi's post?

back to the summary/case.

I focused mainly on rofl in my previous one, and now I'm going to focus on rofl, vino and penguins as they are my top three suspects.

from about page 15 onwards, i.e. after the mason outage, penguins is generally unhelpful and starts tunneling on yossarian for being, not scum, but sk.
for example:

The problem is that now the SK probably won't kill us, and instead, will be much more likely real town power roles, when I would much rather he would kill glorified townies like us.

I hadn't thought of

that.

It's as if you can read the mind of how a serial killer would behave in this game, it's truly uncanny, the detail in which to see the SK's point of view rather than, say, the more populous and prevalent mafia, which, I dunno, I presonally feel is more of a threat given that so far we had no night and no evidence of a serial killer.

Of course yos wouldn't have any idea what an sk would do based on his massive experience, would he?[/sarcasm]

I would also like to point out now a flaw in penguins original logic for outing the masons. Why would the scum mason draw attention to themselves by voting one of the other masons? And if you believed there was indeed scum in the masons wouldn't it be the correct play for other masons to vote other masons if they thought they were acting scummy?

penguins also keeps listing his "scum list" saying he would be happy to lynch any of them. This strikes me as the rather scummy tactic of being able to hop on any number of wagons if they happened to appear (there were up to 7 names on the list).

Around this time vino refuses to claim. I am ok with that since he was only at -3, but he states that he was in no danger of a lynch, and seems just a little too comfortable where he is. I find this odd since there was a lot of talk about a vino lynch just a couple of pages before.

by the way @ vino: I know that people were talking about the possibility of scum in the masons, or even saying they were sure there were scum in the masons, but your statement implied

knowledge

that there was scum in the mason group. In my opinion it's a pretty strong slip.

soon after - penguins self vote. ugh. I've definitely seen scum do that to discourage a lynch, in fact I've done it as scum (it worked too, as it did here).

vino is protective of his meta. Why? (that question at vino)

penguins and rofl have a major buddy session where penguins asks rofl to lynch him and rofl doesn't do it.


Ok ran out of time again but I'll be back on hopefully later tonight.

[Vino]

Thanks for all your thoughts, Admiral.

Around this time vino refuses to claim. I am ok with that since he was only at -3, but he states that he was in no danger of a lynch, and seems just a little too comfortable where he is. I find this odd since there was a lot of talk about a vino lynch just a couple of pages before.

It's an issue of numbers. Of the people who hadn't voted, there weren't three people who had expressed negative opinions of me. There simply weren't enough available votes to put my neck in a noose.

by the way @ vino: I know that people were talking about the possibility of scum in the masons, or even saying they were sure there were scum in the masons, but your statement implied

knowledge

that there was scum in the mason group. In my opinion it's a pretty strong slip.

You can interpret it as a slip if you want, but I was really only expressing what everybody else had already expressed.

vino is protective of his meta. Why? (that question at vino)

I think maybe you saw this line:

Serengeti: I don't care for your meta, and I won't tell you mine.

My policy on meta is that I don't ever give any weight when other people post their meta, ie "look what I did this last game when I was town" I will ignore, because I think it has zero bearing on what they are doing this game. It's so ridiculously easy for a person to mimic as scum what they did as town in previous games. It's a random game and just because they acted a certain way as town last game doesn't mean they're still town this game. Likewise I never give people my meta, I don't think it is very convincing, I like to give stronger reasons for my townliness. I may ask people for meta if I think it is pertinent and would prove useful, but that instance is rare. If you ask me for my meta I may give it to you if I feel like it, I wouldn't say I'm protective of it.

PS: Serengeti is female.