Mini 731 Speed Dating Smalltown: Over!

[Xtoxm]

A lynch is better than NL cos it has chance of getting scum, or atleast removes a suspect.

[MafiaSSK]

For those people who have played with Xtoxm before, can you please describe his playstyle for me. And to SSK, is this how he gets when he is town who hates his role or scum who hates his role, since you seem to have played with him before when he has done this.

I've forgotten his real playstyle and it probably has changed since mini 539. But in 539 he did not treat himself like this when he had a townie role.

[Shanba]

Shanba I really don't get your unvote of Neko at this point. Are you saying you don't think he is scummy and believe him?
Why vote for xtoxm now and do you believe emp not scum or just not someone you wish to lynch today.

Empking is slightly scummy, i.e, he is slightly more likely than normal to be scum: that means, btw, that he's still more likely town than scum. I don't think that level of suspicion (or even any level of suspicion, tbh) is worth lynching him over while he is the tracker.

As for neko... I'm getting increasingly doubtful of my read on him. On to suspect number 2.

only if the person selected is arbitrary, I don't believe Xtoxm to be scum./

I don't see how you can believe that. Read RS in isolation, then read Xtoxm in isolation. Then tell me that they look town.

[Empking]

Unvote

I can't lynch that. You are, though, only partially correct. I am determined not to let the Empking wagon end in a lynch. No matter what else happens, lynching him is not at all beneficial to us. EVEN IF he were scum, it would b rather like a cop outing himself day 1 to catch a scum: we trade the cop for the scum. Except worse, since scum would have the opportunity to pick off

another

role, as well. Furthermore, I'm not at all convinced or even all that close to believing he

is

scum anyway. So it's all yucky. I no longer believe neko is scum, ftr.

Vote: Xtoxm

I don't want credit, I want her lynched. If I continued, she wouldn't be lynched.

I think purposerly baiting someone is scummy, you don't. That's a difference of opinion.

You didn't say that. You said: "Poor Farside, yes she was a scummy but Empking is too stupid to find scum anyway".

I also think that is a massive stretch to even conceive that farside was deliberately baiting you.

you don't think the fact that it clearly shows how you'd react with not thinking FS was scum shows that I think you'd react with not thinking FS was scum?

Xtoxm that was very anti-you.

[farside22]

I don't see how you can believe that. Read RS in isolation, then read Xtoxm in isolation. Then tell me that they look town.

And this is what Xtoxm fails to realize. I voted RS because of his comment then vote on Emp. Didn't like it. He disappeared now xtoxm has yet to attempt any scum hunting and self votes which is the most anti-town thing to do.

[Shanba]

you don't think the fact that it clearly shows how you'd react with not thinking FS was scum shows that I think you'd react with not thinking FS was scum?

I think you either completely failed to understand my objection to your response or alternatively, you deliberately avoided responding to my response by asking a question instead.

You said "Poor Farside, yes she was a scummy but Empking is too stupid to find scum anyway". This to me reads like you're not lynching her because you wont get any credit for it. Did you mean by "yes she was a scummy" that she was scum who just got lynched or a scummy looking player? Please try and be clearer in your language.

[hohum]

There still seems to be two distinct camps here

1) Lynch based on role
2) Lynch based on perceived alignment.

I don't know what the correct answer is but the more I think about it the more I realize one side won't be able to convince the other, and we're going tie ourselves up into knots trying. Game mechanics aside, it's anti-town to not lynch based on alignment.

I don't think Xtom would be self-voting if he were scum. In my mind that confirms his alignment.

FoS: shanba

until someone can convince me otherwise.

Vote Empking

still our best lynch target for the day.

[Shanba]

There still seems to be two distinct camps here

1) Lynch based on role
2) Lynch based on perceived alignment.

I don't know what the correct answer is but the more I think about it the more I realize one side won't be able to convince the other, and we're going tie ourselves up into knots trying. Game mechanics aside, it's anti-town to not lynch based on alignment.

I don't think Xtom would be self-voting if he were scum. In my mind that confirms his alignment.

FoS: shanba

until someone can convince me otherwise.

Vote Empking

still our best lynch target for the day.

I am

not

lynching based on role. I am refusing to lynch based on role. If you take my list from a few pages back, I'd actually be willing to lynch pretty much any of them after JOAT. If you think I am only taking role into account when I am deciding who to lynch, you are

not reading my posts.

Also, you have no idea how utterly annoying I find the idea that self voters can't be scum. That's rot. Xtocm has been around far too long to be allowed to get away with that sort of WIFOM on a massive scale: and even perpetrating it is scummy, since the only possible motivation he could have is to cast doubt over his own alignment. It makes almost no sense from a pro-town perspective to selfvote.

[farside22]

There still seems to be two distinct camps here

1) Lynch based on role
2) Lynch based on perceived alignment.

I don't know what the correct answer is but the more I think about it the more I realize one side won't be able to convince the other, and we're going tie ourselves up into knots trying. Game mechanics aside, it's anti-town to not lynch based on alignment.

I don't think Xtom would be self-voting if he were scum. In my mind that confirms his alignment.

FoS: shanba

until someone can convince me otherwise.

Vote Empking

still our best lynch target for the day.

Can I point out that I've seen Xtoxm self vote as anti town and town as a null tell. I have seen more anti town people self vote then town.

Don't like this post at all. Get the impression that xtoxm or neko is hohum's partner as Xtoxm lack of comments beats Empkings constant nagging any day.

fos: hohum

[hohum]

@Shanba:

I have been reading your posts and I understand where you're coming from, so please feel free to offer up alternative lynch targets if you don't want to lynch his role. If you "refuse to lynch based on role" surely you find someone else equally as scummy as empking who has a lesser role we can lynch.

Self votes are usually scummy, but in context I think xtom thinks he's simply doing the right thing. I really don't like the knee-jerk reaction from you.

[Shanba]

RS, I want to ask you something since we haven't heard too much out of you. I understand the farside vote was a random vote, but now that we have progressed past that stage, what do you think about the current Farsid/empking thing? Personally, I can see farsides point, no one really did question her other than BSG and Korts until the beginning of the day, (Even I am guilty of that one.) What gets me is why did he wait so long to even bring it up? I counted 2 posts by him between her selection and the start of D1 and then it was the very first thing he brought up D1 as well, which ust happend to be after she voted him.

P.S. Speaking of not hearing much out of people, can we get some proddage TAX's way, he hasn't even said anything since his selection. In fact, looking back his selection is the ONLY thing he has said this entire thread.

Empking seems like the type to bicker over crap on the few occasions that he posts. No real tell one way or the other. Though from what I remember I always seem to read farside as town...

unvote, vote:empking

Ill just leave this here...

This sequence of two posts is the single scummiest thig in the game, above and beyond anything anyone else has done, including his replacement's, xtoxm's, selfvote.

Xtoxm has then hidden behind the idea of wanting a random lynch so that he hasn't had to give any opinions

at all.

I am deeply worried by this. The selfvote is also scummy, though hardly as damning as either of the other two tells. It is most definitely

not

a towntell. Indeed, I was unaware of the meta, but if there is one, then that only strengthens my point (ftr, farside, can we have links to where xtoxm has done this before?)

Furthermore, if you disagree with my arguments as to why lynching Empking is a bad thing, then why have you not refuted them? To look at it yet

another

way, would you lynch a day 1 tracker claim? Why not? How certain are you that Empking is scum? Would you advise a tracker with a guilty to come forwards day 1? Lynching Empking,

if he were confirmed scum

, would be roughly equivalent to a cop coming forwards day 1 with a guilty, except worse, since the scum have a chance to kill another role/player as well! I do not consider 1 scum for one tracker and one Joat, for example, a worthwhile trade, and I certainly don't consider it worthwhile when we're not even certain EmpKing is scum.

[farside22]

Shanba: He self hammered in this game.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9690

I have to look up something. I think I remember another time, but I think every time I've seen Xtoxm do it, it was a hammer vote.

[Oman]

only if the person selected is arbitrary, I don't believe Xtoxm to be scum./

I don't see how you can believe that. Read RS in isolation, then read Xtoxm in isolation. Then tell me that they look town.

Xtoxm is RS? I thought he was BSG....fuck!

Okay give me some time then.

[Tanarin]

Xtoxm, I wanted to ask in my last post directed to you but at the time I was busy, so I am going to ask this now. Why do YOU think today isn't about scumhunting?

@Shanba: You say you are refusing to lynch someone based on role, wouldn't that in essence be a form of voting based on role. In this case excluding roles from being lynched as opposed to lynching someone based on the usefulness of their role? (Which is what Xtoxm is proposing.) The way I interpreted hohum's two camps would put you in Camp 1, again though excluding as opposed to including certain roles.

[orangepenguin]

There still seems to be two distinct camps here

1) Lynch based on role
2) Lynch based on perceived alignment.

I don't know what the correct answer is but the more I think about it the more I realize one side won't be able to convince the other, and we're going tie ourselves up into knots trying. Game mechanics aside, it's anti-town to not lynch based on alignment.

Wouldn't the solution to lynch based on perceived alignment AND role, since we can't seem to agree.

[farside22]

So here is my issue with Xtoxm:

A lynch is better than NL cos it has chance of getting scum, or atleast removes a suspect.

If he believes this why the self vote? Why not vote for Neko? These are things I just don't like about Xtoxm. Nothing so far from him has shown a single thing that isn't anti-town.
He talks about SSK as a bad player but I feel like say pot this kettle.
Ugh I dont know whether to think Xtoxm scum if he is scum is Neko his scum buddy since he (a) doesnt' meantion the role and (b) doesn't sway votes if he believes voting out a useless role and lynching is informative.
Or if he is setting Neko up for a mislynch knowing he will flip scum.

Seriously nothing from Xtoxm says town to me and RS was not helping or giving anything from my read of him.

I'm torn because of the PGO role that Neko has and knowing if Neko is scum nothing can stop him from doing a hit.

[neko2086]

hohum, why single out shanba as somebody who is wanting to lynch based on roles and not xtoxm or others?

OP, I very much agree with you, but please indulge us with an idea of who you think that person might be.

[Xtoxm]

Unvote Vote Farside

[farside22]

Unvote Vote Farside

OMGUS much?

[orangepenguin]

So he's just going to self-vote and then throw out an omgus vote? Mmm..okay.

neko: I have no idea. If we lynch based on role, then you are the obvious lynch. IMO, if we base on percieved alignment, then it's Empking. Soo...not sure what to do. People don't want to lynch Empking today because he's tracker, which I get, I guess, but people want to lynch you too, because they think you're scummy for choisng the PGO right away.

[Xtoxm]

I don't see Emp as scummy.

If we lynch based on role, it's me.

Vote not omgus.

If we lynch based on percieved alignment, I say Farside.

[neko2086]

xtoxm, can you please explain why you find farside scummy?

OP, yes, people want to lynch me, but what do

you

want to do? Also, I was interpreting your statement differently than you, apparently, because you seem to be viewing this as an either/or scenario.

Clearly, the best way to go about this is to lynch based on both role and alignment. There are several roles we can do without, and if a scummy person is holding on to one of them, they are a perfectly acceptable lynch candidate.

So, OP, do you think I'm scummy? What about Xtoxm? Others?

[farside22]

I don't see Emp as scummy.

If we lynch based on role, it's me.

Vote not omgus.

If we lynch based on percieved alignment, I say Farside.

Please share. I live and breathe for this.

[Empking]

you don't think the fact that it clearly shows how you'd react with not thinking FS was scum shows that I think you'd react with not thinking FS was scum?

I think you either completely failed to understand my objection to your response or alternatively, you deliberately avoided responding to my response by asking a question instead.

You said "Poor Farside, yes she was a scummy but Empking is too stupid to find scum anyway". This to me reads like you're not lynching her because you wont get any credit for it. Did you mean by "yes she was a scummy" that she was scum who just got lynched or a scummy looking player? Please try and be clearer in your language.

A scummy looking player, I should've used "is"

[Korts]

Hmm, I see that I forgot to follow up post 602 with the appropriate vote.

unvote, vote: neko

The Xtoxm wagon is poor and the self-vote stupid.

For those people who have played with Xtoxm before, can you please describe his playstyle for me

Those games that I've been in with him he was generally lurkish, but none of those games was filled with excitement. He's easily bored apparently. I've read some games though where his activity was very high.