Mini 708 - Cheat Mafia (GAME OVER)

[DrippingGoofball]

Jahudo, what do you think of GW?

[Jahudo]

Jahudo, what do you think of GW?

I don't think Ruck would get a paranoid/insane power off playing the game well, so where would GW scum fit into Ruck and Axel scum with DGB town scenario?

[DrippingGoofball]

Jahudo, what do you think of GW?

I don't think Ruck would get a paranoid/insane power off playing the game well, so where would GW scum fit into Ruck and Axel scum with DGB town scenario?

But think of this. A cop investigation at endgame, when few people are left, is like shooting fish in a barrel. The scum doesn't have time to discover a cop, it's like, almost a free dead scum for the town. And the way we have to earn investigations over time, guarantees that we have no powers early on, but acquire them in end game.

So maybe to balance things off, two investigations were given last night. One insane cop, and one thief. If the mod had done it otherwise, it wouldn't be much of a game, would it?

[Master Ruck]

So rather than answer his question, you instead play one big game of outguess-the-mod.

[Jahudo]

I think some rereads discussing interaction with Natirasha are in order before the hammer vote is placed.

Sirdan, how are your reads coming along?

And the way we have to earn investigations over time, guarantees that we have no powers early on, but acquire them in end game.

You think we all started out as vanilla? Also, how do we know that you're not the insane one?

[Jahudo]

Mod: Can you prod sirdanilot?

[sirdanilot]

Eep. I'm here.

This is quite simple. DGB is obviously lying. A rich girl, who happens to gain the powers of a thief? Mistaking lock PICKING with using bolt CUTTERS? Everyone knows what lock picking is, and can assume, roughly, how it is done; people know, through sheer common sense, that bolt cutters cut, and do not pick.

Eek, this screams so much scum, since the picking vs cutter incident was resolved already.

Jahudo, what do you think of GW?

This seems a bit too pushy.

So yes, GW dropped a scum tell there but I don't think he fits in with any of our potential scum. Still worth noting.

NPC, The Hillbilly Kid, Innocent has been expelled Day 1.

Der Hammer, Orchestra Geek, Innocent has been lynched Day 1.

Xtoxm, the Football Player, Innocent has been stabbed through the back Night 1.

Animorpherv1, the Class Clown, Innocent has been killed by a glass shard Day 2.

Armlx (VisMaior), the Too-Nice Kid, Innocent has been poisoned Night 2.

UnofficialRulerofEveryone (Natirasha), the Fat Kid, Druggie has been shot with a pistol Day 3.

Malthusis, the Quiet Kid, Psychopath has been killed Night 3.

It seems that roles typically have the name of a high school stereotype, and that the town name is 'innocent' and the mafia are the 'druggies'. The psychopath is obviously third party. Rich girl does not seem to bear any connection or aversion with/to druggies (rebelling rich girl doing drugs? mafia godfather daughter? or nice rich girl doing nothing with drugs?). However, rich girl and thief seem a bit of a no-no to me. If this is true, then it would point towards a druggie rich girl gone bad at best.
That's everything I'm willing to speculate on in this post.

---

Firstly, Axelrods pushy posts gave me some bad vibes, so here is some axelrod/mana-ku interaction with Natirasha and vice versa.
(real thread numbers)
mana-ku:
post 32: "I'm not gonna focus on those claims yet. I've seen to what it can lead. Eventually, it comes down to their play." distancing from nat?
35: no interaction, but just noting the "And I was wondering, how many answers have you already been given and by whom? "
axelrod:
85: "[quoting axelrod replacing in]Hm...this is interesting. Between you and SirD, I think that this will be an interesting game for me. " very minor, just pointing out.
90: out of the two miller claims, suspects DH is scum over nat.

AXELROD: why did you not start suspecting Nat when DH flipped town? You said that one of the miller claims is scum. if one flips town isn't it a logical conclusion the other one is scum?

99 - keeps the option of nat-scum open but no clear suspicion wiffle waffle
102 - the hideous nat (alt) post speculating that a 'you're no longer a miller' ability is so obvious. just for reference, because...
118 - NOTHING about nat. just a useless malth unvote (

AXELROD: why?

). And, reiterating his predecessor's 'what's the amount of answers everyone got'. Just to note.
158 - finally some nat suspicion. but uhm 'somewhat insincere' what?
180 - says 'that doesn't mean there aren't other reasons to vote Natirasha' and says he'll start rereading.
194... no nat reread? aww
292 - "looking at nat is a good place to start the day"
<more than a page of absence>
328 - a reasonably good post, but nothing about nat
382 - constructive post suspecting UROE (nat replacement). finally
388 - uroe says axelrod is top pick for scum, reread pending.
410 - suspects nat, but no vote yet. still pending nat reread?
443 - uroe hammer

Alright, so what has this reread told us?

The biggest tells are these:
90 - Did not suspect nat after DH flipped town.
Continuously promising nat rereads, but nothing happened
Not voting UROE day 3, while expressing suspicion, until he got the opportunity to hammer.

I think I could do one of these from DGB as well in the near future. I'm sorry for not posting a lot. What is everyone's opinion about this? It personally hasn't convinced me of axelrodscum yet but it's very worth considering (especially since I put quite a lot of time into this).

MOD: DOES THE MAFIA HAVE SAFECLAIMS?

Asking never hurts.

[Jahudo]

They both suspected the miller claims but they took a long time to finally push a case on Nat. It looks like they were both hypocritical in pushing DH hard and opportunistically forgetting about the miller in favor of an animorph wagon.

[iLord]

To Come! (Day 4)

Flavor to come.

Vote Count the Second (Day 4)

DrippingGoofball (3): Master Ruck, GhostWriter, Axelrod

With 6 alive, it's 4 to lynch.

I cannot answer sirdanilot's question.

[Master Ruck]

One other point I would like to add. If I did have an insane cop scan like DGB would like to make us believe, then that would mean he is, in fact, town. He's been at L-1 for a while now and unless something stops the scum kill tonight, a mislynch ends the game. Where, then, is the opportunistic scum hammer to make all this happen?

[Jahudo]

One other point I would like to add. If I did have an insane cop scan like DGB would like to make us believe, then that would mean he is, in fact, town. He's been at L-1 for a while now and unless something stops the scum kill tonight, a mislynch ends the game. Where, then, is the opportunistic scum hammer to make all this happen?

Both scum would have to already be on the wagon. If you aren't insane and DGB is town, then you are scum. If DGB is town and sane, then Axel is town. If both those are true, then both scum are already on the wagon.

[sirdanilot]

They both suspected the miller claims but they took a long time to finally push a case on Nat. It looks like they were both hypocritical in pushing DH hard and opportunistically forgetting about the miller in favor of an animorph wagon.

Who are you talking about here?

[Master Ruck]

If DGB is town and sane, then Axel is town.

I assume you meant to say Axel is scum in this line, right?

[DrippingGoofball]

Jahudo makes a lot of sense.

[Jahudo]

They both suspected the miller claims but they took a long time to finally push a case on Nat. It looks like they were both hypocritical in pushing DH hard and opportunistically forgetting about the miller in favor of an animorph wagon.

Who are you talking about here?

In post 487 I put a few quotes together that showed DGB and Axel disbelieving the miller claims but forgetting about Nat once DH flipped town, then rediscovering him day 3. They both seem fake to an extent.

And yeah, If DGB is town and sane then Axel is scum.

[Master Ruck]

I would like to hear from GhostWriter on this. He still currently has a vote on DGB yet he hasn't said anything in a while. I'm interested to hear his thoughts on the sane/insane issues.

[Master Ruck]

Ok, my bad, he did say something recently. I just missed it. Basically, though, the current thoughts you are putting forth, Jahudo, are that either I am town with a sane cop scan and DGB is actually scum, or DGB is town with a sane thief role and both Axel and I are scum. Fair enough. Both are possible, I suppose, from the eyes of another townie. Allow me, then, to lay all my cards on the table.

I am the Cheerleader. I know for a fact that the answers to question 7 and 8 are both B. By the time I replaced in to the game, they were still the only answers I had as Dattebayo had only attempted (and failed) to cheat N1 and didn't bother N2. He made no effort to trade answers with anyone either from what I and iLord could get. I made a number of trades during D3 by trading my 2 known answers with Malthusis and GhostWriter, and using the two answers ani gave before he died, I had 8. From there, I did a mass trade with Axel and UROE. UROE did nothing except give me about 2 or 3 answers and simply confirm that the others I had matched his. The simplicity of his reply gave me my initial suspicions towards him. Axel, however, gave me 8 answers I did not have and also confirmed the ones I gave him that he knew of.

Last night, I got and used my cop scan, but that was not the only power I received. I also got a one-shot jailer ability. Through this I have strong reason to believe Axel is town as he gave me the answers necessary to get 2 power roles and I doubt scum would be so willing to give correct answers away, as the trade with UROE leads us to believe.

Now, I think I have potentially given the town their victory. My cop scan showed me DGB is scum. With 6 alive, it means there is at most 2 scum as 3 living scum right now would win them the game. Seeing as how we have no game over, I believe there's 2 scum left. DGB is scum, so we lynch him and there's one left. With my jailer power, all I have to do is use it on the last remaining scum and their kill is blocked giving us a very strong idea of who the last scum is. There is room for error here as it could also be that I protect town and scum happens to try to kill who I protected, but this is a small chance so I'm inclined to ignore it.

I originally kept all this quiet telling this only to Axel (I trusted him as his answers gave me roles) but I realised that even if everyone knows this I still might survive the night if I jail the right person. Both Axel and Ghost should still have records of me trading with them in their PM boxes and should be able to confirm at least that much. I'm also going to proceed with showing the answers I have to

all

the questions. Question 3 is nothing more than an educated guess, but all the other answers came through trade and if they got me 2 powers, I'm inclined to believe most of them are right.

1=B (UROE)
2=B (Axelrod)
3=D
4=C (GhostWriter)
5=C (Malthusis)
6=D (UROE)
7=B (Me)
8=B (Me)
9=D (Axelrod)
10=C (Malthusis)
11=C (GhostWriter)
12=B (Axelrod)
13=C (Axelrod)
14=B (Axelrod)
15=C (Axelrod)

The names in brackets are who I originally got the answer from by trade so you can confirm or deny them further based on any trades or cheats anyone else may have done. Make of this what you will, but this is everything I have on this game so I have nothing else to give.

[Jahudo]

GW and Axel: Which answers are guesses?

[Axelrod]

AXELROD: why did you not start suspecting Nat when DH flipped town? You said that one of the miller claims is scum. if one flips town isn't it a logical conclusion the other one is scum?

I said that I did not belive the town would have two Millers. That's logic and common sense. So initially I was just trying to decide which of the "Miller" claims was more likely.

In a void, when a person comes out early on Day 1, claiming Miller unpressured, I am more likely to believe that person. This because, as scum, it would be a gambit and a risk they would be taking very, very early on. They risk getting lynched right there. They risk getting lynched down the road because they are "unconfirmable." I tend to think that the scum don't ususally take unnecessary risks, especially right out the gate on Day 1. Does that mean it doesn't happen? Obviously not. But most of the time I've seen it, the person who claimed Miller actually was town. It doesn't mean I give them a free pass for the rest of the game, but that's my experience.

Two Miller claimers changed things, however, because that was something I could not believe. I thought DH was fishier. And

then

he said he wasn't actually a Miller at all. He made a "mistake."

At that point it wasn't an either/or situation anymore, which ought to be obvious. There was no reason to conclude that if DH was town Nat. was therefore scum, because DH had made a

mistake

.

I would have thought that was pretty obvious.

As for the rest, I plead guilty to slacking on this game (and, incidentally, every game I was playing across multiple sites.) My "excuse" is that I've been busy and distracted, but I take responsibility for that, so if you want to suspect me for it, I can't say anything to dispute it. It is what it is.

I felt that Nat. was scummy for a long time, but couldn't ever get the time/energy to make a long case out.

Right now, I think with a DGB lynch there's a good chance the game can be locked up. I can confirm everything MR just said, in terms of the answers. If anyone has different answers, they should say so.

If everyone now changes their tests to use the same answers, we can assume that all remaining townies will get useful powers. The last scum will get "something" as well, but hopefully, it is still going to favor the town more.

Right now, I am looking at GW or Jahudo as the last scum. I've felt okay about SirD for most of the game, despite this last post, and I'm 99.9 Master Ruck is town.

[Axelrod]

GW and Axel: Which answers are guesses?

Most of my answers were got through trades.

Is there an answer that you have different? If so, I can tell you where I got mine if you will reveal where you got yours.

[Jahudo]

11=C (GhostWriter)
12=B (Axelrod)

These two mostly.

[Axelrod]

11=C (GhostWriter)
12=B (Axelrod)

These two mostly.

I got my answer to #12 from Xtoxm. This was further "confirmed" by a trade with Nat. - for whatever that's worth.

It has also come to my attention that Xtoxm may have lied about some of his answers, despite being town. That's neither here nor there at this point.

Are you saying you have a different answer? If so, can you say where you got it from?

[Jahudo]

11=C (GhostWriter)
12=B (Axelrod)

These two mostly.

I got my answer to #12 from Xtoxm. This was further "confirmed" by a trade with Nat. - for whatever that's worth.

It has also come to my attention that Xtoxm may have lied about some of his answers, despite being town. That's neither here nor there at this point.

Are you saying you have a different answer? If so, can you say where you got it from?

#11 and 12 are answers I started with. I also got a number #12 from Xtoxm night 1 and his answer was B too. I think some of his answers were wrong too.

[Master Ruck]

So seeing as you started with those answers, can you confirm if they are right, and if not then what do you have? I think at this point it doesn't matter as even though scum might gain some powers, having town get 1, maybe 2, extra powers will easily overpower the remaining scum and point them out with ease.

[Master Ruck]

Also, Jahudo, you say you had a power last night that let you bypass an alert to cheat. you also said that the power was an item yet you failed to say what the item was. What was it?