Medieval Mafia - Game Over


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Post Post #450 (ISO) » Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:31 pm

Post by camn »

If you have been scumhunting the whole game, how do you explain your obsession with Jebus?

Look at your posts...
You posted 6 times. Including trying to uber-wagon zwet.
scotmany12 wrote:We fucking serious people? Seriously, stop unvoting. I do not get what makes this claim so believable; and after reading about William Wallace, I really don't see how martyr (or bodyguard for that matter) fits for him.
Then, until I got you off the topic... only 2 of your next 29 posts are not ABOUT JEBUS.

I clearly am the only one that could pull you away from your obsession.
If scumhunting = obsessing about Jebus.. then you are totally scumhunting.
But it doesn't.

So... why are you so into him?
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Post Post #451 (ISO) » Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:36 pm

Post by scotmany12 »

Camn, can you read this post.
scotmany12 wrote:
qwints wrote:I don't like scotmany defending jesus. Let him come defend himself.
I am attacking the validity of people's arguments against Jebus. I'm not going to sit back and let people do things that I disagree with. The arguments for why Jebus is scum are severely flawed, so I'm going to speak up about it.
I find the wagon on Jebus to be dumbfounded and baseless. So I'm going to try and stop the wagon. Now I read every post, make notes to myself in my head, and if anything extremely scummy jumps out to me, I will comment on it. If I disagree with anything, like lynching lurkers, I will most likely comment on it.

Camn, do you have other games where you share this enthusiasm of lynching lurkers? If so, can you point them to me? I don't want to vote for you if you do this regardless of alignment, even if it is antitown.
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Post Post #452 (ISO) » Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:41 pm

Post by camn »

God I have to do this:

All from Scot:
Is there any actual argument for voting for
Jebus
?
If you didn't believe him, why did you unvote him then and place a mindless vote on
Jebus
?
What made you "sold" on the
Jebus
case in the span of about a half-hour?
This is complete bullshit. You are basically voting for
Jebus
because he is a lurker. Way to go.
Attacking someone's activity, regardless of his activity in other games, is ridiculous to do on day 1.
Lynching anyone on day 1 for lurking is something I don't believe strongly in, no matter the extent.
My comments about
Jebus
are directed to everyone, including tajo.
Hell, maybe he forgot about it (Infact, Mod: prod
Jebus
please). None of these make him scum.
You not stated shows your vote has no validity, hence it being mindless.
Unless you have say a solid meta on someone who only lurks as scum, which I don't think people have on
Jebus
, I view lurking as a null-tell.
I do not condone the wagon on
Jebus
.
DrippingGoofball wrote:Is
Jebus
worthy of such a supportive statement?
Well I don't think he is worthy of being lynched if that is what you are asking.
he could quite possibly be scum in those games and town in this one.
I don't understand why you people are rushing to lynch him. Give him some time before you automatically condemn him.
Xylthixlm wrote:Four votes is "rushing to lynch"?
Well its five votes, and he went from two to five in like a matter of, what, a few hours? So yes.
The difference is zwet was scummy while
Jebus
has done nothing scummy.
So he has done nothing scummy. So unvote him.
scotmany12 wrote:
Your argument seems to be that
Jebus
is innocent until proven guilty.
He is, and anyone who thinks otherwise is retarded.
I am attacking the validity of people's arguments against
Jebus
.
Pretty much the same situation with
Jebus
. Indifferent on both of them.
I want to avoid his lynch because there is no reason to lynch him.
Lynching lurkers should not be the priority
why would town vote for a lurker simply for lurking
You know, I have been scumhunting this whole game.
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Post Post #453 (ISO) » Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:47 pm

Post by scotmany12 »

No, you didn't have to do that. This is going nowhere. So please camn,
scotmany12 wrote:Camn, do you have other games where you share this enthusiasm of lynching lurkers? If so, can you point them to me? I don't want to vote for you if you do this regardless of alignment, even if it is antitown.
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Post Post #454 (ISO) » Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:48 pm

Post by camn »

scotmany12 wrote:Camn, can you read this post.
scotmany12 wrote:
qwints wrote:I don't like scotmany defending jesus. Let him come defend himself.
I am attacking the validity of people's arguments against Jebus. I'm not going to sit back and let people do things that I disagree with.
The arguments for why Jebus is scum are severely flawed
, so I'm going to speak up about it.
I find the wagon on Jebus to be dumbfounded and baseless. So I'm going to try and stop the wagon. Now I read every post, make notes to myself in my head, and if anything extremely scummy jumps out to me, I will comment on it. If I disagree with anything, like lynching lurkers, I will most likely comment on it.

Camn, do you have other games where you share this enthusiasm of lynching lurkers? If so, can you point them to me? I don't want to vote for you if you do this regardless of alignment, even if it is antitown.
Yeah, I can read it.

Now I am going to totally blow your mind:

a) I have never argued that Jebus is scum. Your debate is elsewhere.
b) I am not pushing the Lurker Wagon. I simply understand why it exists.
c) I don't keep track of my games. And I don't assist people with meta-analyzing me.
d) I don't care if you are voting me. I just want you to stop thinking about JEBUS!!!
e)
UNVOTE, VOTE TSQ
Why? because I was trying to pick this fight with you, but somehow Scot took over. You two with your lurker love.
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Post Post #455 (ISO) » Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:51 pm

Post by Xylthixlm »

Stop jumping off a perfectly good lurker wagon just because someone does something a little bit scummy.
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Post Post #456 (ISO) » Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:53 pm

Post by camn »

Look, we have all day to kill lurkers.

But arguing about it tires me.
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Post Post #457 (ISO) » Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:56 pm

Post by scotmany12 »

Why must you be difficult camn...
camn wrote:a) I have never argued that Jebus is scum. Your debate is elsewhere.
This is exactly my point camn. There was no reason for you to be voting for him, and I still don't exactly understand why you were voting for him, and that leaves me confused as to what you are trying to do in this game. Were you just voting him for reactions? Were you seriously considering lynching him because he was a lurker?

I gave you a way for you to show me that my vote on you had no basis to it. You refusing to do so reinforces it.
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Post Post #458 (ISO) » Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:57 pm

Post by Xylthixlm »

camn wrote:Look, we have all day to kill lurkers.
There's no time like the present.
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Post Post #459 (ISO) » Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:17 pm

Post by camn »

scotmany12 wrote:Why must you be difficult camn...
camn wrote:a) I have never argued that Jebus is scum. Your debate is elsewhere.
This is exactly my point camn. There was no reason for you to be voting for him, and I still don't exactly understand why you were voting for him, and that leaves me confused as to what you are trying to do in this game. Were you just voting him for reactions? Were you seriously considering lynching him because he was a lurker?

I gave you a way for you to show me that my vote on you had no basis to it. You refusing to do so reinforces it.
Its not a refusal, I just can't be bothered. Your vote's 'basis' does not interest me.
I like that you are
asking
me now, though. You never did before, you know. You just said I was 'mindless' and 'retarded'.
Not that I mind. I do like the attention.

Anyway, I told you. He random voted me and then vanished. I don't like that. Plus my random vote on pop seemed inappropriate by that time.

And yes. I would be willing to lynch a lurker, I would rather see the pressure force them to play correctly, but all lurkers should die. If he gets to L-1 and still hasn't posted, I will hammer him. I hear and understand that you are AGAINST a policy lynch on day 1 of a large theme game with a closed setup. I get it. I, personally, am all for it. But there is really no need to discuss it further.

So.... can we talk about something else? Like TSQ? I would normally grill you some more, but you seem like an innocent townie cursed by an unhealthy obsession with JEBUS.
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Post Post #460 (ISO) » Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:35 pm

Post by OhGodMyLife »

Vote Count:
9 to lynch

Jebus: 4 (populartajo, Xylthixlm, Yosarian2, qwints)
Thestatusquo: 2 (DrippingGoofball, camn)
DrippingGoofball: 2 (farside22, CounselWolf)
camn: 1 (Jebus, scotmany12)
hasdgfas: 1 (Caboose)
Xylthixlm: 1 (Thestatusquo)

Not Voting: 5 (stark, crywolf20084, hasdgfas, sam.samhorn, Kmd4390)
Last edited by OhGodMyLife on Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #461 (ISO) » Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:49 pm

Post by Xylthixlm »

I'm guessing Yosarian2 doesn't actually have two votes.

At least two of the following are scum: CounselWolf, crywolf20084, hasdgfas, Jebus, stark

Vote count fixed. -OGML
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Post Post #462 (ISO) » Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:45 pm

Post by scotmany12 »

Unvote
. I quite liked camn's reaction to my vote on her (as frustrating as it was).

As for TSQ, I see the case on him having to be he is bussing farside, and his vote on zwet. I do not see how his vote on zwet is that much different than Yos's. Sure, he was more vocal during this, but still, zwet was scummy as hell. Shouldn't you be looking at the less vocal people on the wagon of zwet, the people who were riding it, like sam, and cow, and hell, even me? I mean, TSQ looked like the most protown player on the wagon (not including me).

As for him bussing Farside, should you not be going after farside first? If you are trying to make a case against TSQ that he is scum for bussing Farside, then you would have to know farside's alignment. If you were to lynch TSQ, and if he were to come up scum, then you can attack farside and say that you think TSQ was bussing her, but ti can't be used as an argument against TSQ. If I am missing anything with the case against TSQ please let me know.

Also, I'm not reading anything into TSQ considering a replacement.

Cow is scummy. Out of everyone who stayed on the zwet wagon, he seemed the less sincere about it. He was the first of place his vote, having done so in the random voting stage, and he kind of just drifted along, letting others, mainly TSQ and Yos, do all the work. And then him trying to get someone to claim to the kill of zwet is condemning. We don't want the assumed dayvig to claim, and cow trying to lure him out through false information, saying that there is plenty of ways for him to survive the night, which we do not know, is not acceptable.
Vote: hasdfgasCOW


All the people voting for Jebus: why are you voting an inactive over people are actively lurking and providing nothing to this game like qwints (who has placed an opportunistic vote on Jebus) and Crywolf, who has yet to make a stance on anyone?
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Post Post #463 (ISO) » Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:45 pm

Post by Thestatusquo »

Camn, I am not defending him. I am attacking the validity of xyls vote on him, and more importantly attacking his motivations.

I have called for jebus to be replaced.

I don't think lurking is a tell one way or the other, as I have seen both town and scum lurk in equal amounts. Therefore rather than get him lynched, I would rather we get him replaced so we can make an informed opinion on him.

That said, I don't think it's scummy to attack a lurker, I just think that xyl could add a whole lot more to the game than he has, and I don't see a pro-town motivation for doing what he has done.
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Post Post #464 (ISO) » Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:05 pm

Post by Xylthixlm »

Okay. I am completely baffled by how scotmany12 can think that "actively lurking" is scummy, and simultaneously believe that being active on the site but not posting at all is not scummy. It doesn't work. There's no set of consistent assumptions that leads to those conclusions. I smell rationalization.
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Post Post #465 (ISO) » Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:12 pm

Post by scotmany12 »

Xylthixlm wrote:Okay. I am completely baffled by how scotmany12 can think that "actively lurking" is scummy, and simultaneously believe that being active on the site but not posting at all is not scummy. It doesn't work. There's no set of consistent assumptions that leads to those conclusions. I smell rationalization.
Jebus is not actively lurking in this game. He is inactive in this game. His activeness across the site is irrelevant. You can not compare his performance in two games when his roles are unknown in both. I'm tired of repeating that. Being active in the game, yet providing nothing, is scummy.
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Post Post #466 (ISO) » Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:21 pm

Post by Xylthixlm »

His general activeness means that his lack of posting here isn't because he's too busy, or has unexpected circumstances, or whatever. He's deliberately avoiding this game. That is
not
a null tell.
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Post Post #467 (ISO) » Tue Feb 17, 2009 2:52 am

Post by DrippingGoofball »

camn wrote:If someone were CONFIRMED town, I wouldn't lynch them. I would hope they were nightkilled...
Say that again?
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Post Post #468 (ISO) » Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:05 am

Post by DrippingGoofball »

scotmany12 wrote:I mean, TSQ looked like the most protown player on the wagon (not including me).
I believe he was the one most aggressively pursuing a townie that painted a target on his own back, and willfully ignored his meta, as described by PopTartajo and myself. That's exploitative, and TSQ didn't leave the door a crack open to consider the possibility of suicidally bad town play. You're guilty of the same, scot.
scotmany12 wrote:As for him bussing Farside, should you not be going after farside first?
No, because farside herself has done nothing wrong. TSQ is more scummy for his stubborn pursuance of a zwet quicklynch,
combined
with possible bus'ing of farside. Dealing with probabilities, the first lynch should be TSQ. If TSQ flips scum, then take a solid look at farside, whom I expect will be more active shortly. We'll judge farside on the own, adding in the TSQ possible bus'ing handicap.
scotmany12 wrote:Also, I'm not reading anything into TSQ considering a replacement.
The cowardly reasons he gave are strongly indicative of caught-scum exasperation. It is a very strong scumtell.

If TSQ were town
, he'd want to savor the victory of flipping town, and proving me wrong and illogical to everyone.

IF TSQ is scum
, he'd want to avoid the humiliation of flipping scum, and proving me (a player he considers illogical) dead on correct.

So yeah. I think that's a very strong scumtell.
scotmany12 wrote:All the people voting for Jebus: why are you voting an inactive over people are actively lurking and providing nothing to this game like qwints (who has placed an opportunistic vote on Jebus) and Crywolf, who has yet to make a stance on anyone?
Because Jebus is VERY active elsewhere, and Jebus knew of zwet's meta and did not show up to weigh in on it.
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Post Post #469 (ISO) » Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:16 am

Post by DrippingGoofball »

scotmany12 wrote:As for him bussing Farside, should you not be going after farside first?
Sounds like you may be bus'ing Farside, too.
scotmany12 wrote:If you are trying to make a case against TSQ that he is scum for bussing Farside, then you would have to know farside's alignment.
Knowing TSQ's alignment works well too; I always assume that a regular scumbag is unable to refrain from starting a game with bus'ing his partners.
scotmany12 wrote:If you were to lynch TSQ, and if he were to come up scum, then you can attack farside and say that you think TSQ was bussing her, but ti can't be used as an argument against TSQ.
Yes, it CAN be used as an argument against TSQ, and a solid one, too. TSQ's attacks arise from a complete void of farside contributions, as she's currently V/LA and everyone knows this because I said it several times already. It's as if he's got his scumbuddy list in his head, and starts the game with the inevitable distancing. He's so programmed to do his distancing that it doesn't even matter that farside isn't here to post anything. TSQ is on bus'ing autopilot. That's why it's bus'ing. It's not a legitimate suspicion or accusation. It comes out early in the game and out of the clear blue sky, with a disproportionate amount of certainty.
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Post Post #470 (ISO) » Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:20 am

Post by Thestatusquo »

To be honest, I don't think of mafia in terms of showing other people up. I think of mafia as what I can best do to win. I don't think going after you right now is a strong move, considering the fact that I'm about 80% sure that you're town.

There's also a huge logical flaw in your argument. You're saying that if I were town, I'd want to be lynched just to prove you wrong? I don't think you know me very well if you say that. I'm reasonably sure that getting lynched doesn't suit my interests very well regardless of my alignment. Also, I'm reasonably sure that I have displayed frustration over attacks that I have thought to be illogical as both town and scum. For someone who keeps going on and on about meta, you should learn mine before you try to make an attack about what I would do in a given situation.
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Post Post #471 (ISO) » Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:27 am

Post by DrippingGoofball »

Thestatusquo wrote:There's also a huge logical flaw in your argument. You're saying that if I were town, I'd want to be lynched just to prove you wrong?
NO

I'm saying that you wouldn't consider being replaced so early in the game, while under direct fire from me, as town. I do agree that you wouldn't want yourself
lynched
under any circumstance.
Replaced
is different.
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Post Post #472 (ISO) » Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:39 am

Post by Thestatusquo »

Nah, not really. DGB, no offense, you're a great person out of games... But I hate playing with you. I think we've played with each other in three games now, and after each one I promise myself that I'm not going to ever do it to myself again.

Every time I end up doing it because the rest of the list looks awesome (this game) or the theme looks cool (this game) or I really like the mod (this game) and every time I do it I end up regretting it almost immediately.

This time, I mean it. After this game I am never playing with you ever again. I really would appreciate it if we could stop talking about this. It's not really game related in the slightest, and I don't really like bringing my personal feelings into games, which is why I actually haven't ever night killed you, even when I had the opportunity before.

I just... This is not fun for me right now, playing with you. I don't relish proving you wrong because you don't learn anything from it, and the next game you'll be making the same illogical arguments against some other poor sap. There really is NOTHING that I enjoy about playing with you.

Lets drop this, ok? It's really extra-game.
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Post Post #473 (ISO) » Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:57 am

Post by camn »

I generally nightkill people I am mad at. It feels good. You should try it, TSQ.

And DGB! That post was in re: to lurkers. If there were a confirmed townie lurking, I would hope the scum would choose to remove them from play, instead of an active townie.

Duh.
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Post Post #474 (ISO) » Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:10 am

Post by Thestatusquo »

I enjoy winning more than petty revenge, and petty revenge very often gets in the way of winning.
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