Mini 738: The Town of Merrin - Game Over

[Goatrevolt]

Qwints, what specifically about the case on her is weak? From reading your posts I get the general idea that you are of the opinion that Zilla being aggressive somehow trumps any amount of scummy actions she can take. Do you think scum are somehow unable to play aggressively? Furthermore, myself and GIEFF are both aggressive players and are two of the major factors pushing the "Scum-driven" wagon on Zilla. How does that fit with your aggressiveness = pro-town idea?

[Goatrevolt]

Zilla, how is my lack of input disconcerting when I said I was V/LA?

I'm guessing you are off V/LA at this point. What is your take on present discussion?

It looks like it'll be Monday before I can post in any depth, but here are things to remind myself of for tomorrow's post:

No post?

The subject of the attack is not abrasiveness.
The motivation for attacking is that she is abrasive.

If my motivation for attacking her was abrasiveness, I would have done it far earlier. She has not acted in an abrasive fashion to BB or Militant, and did not act that way towards GIEFF prior to his attack on her. I fail to see how this is at all a relevant point.

[springlullaby]

Sorry, haven't had the time for this game yet.

[Dourgrim]

POSTING IN ALL GAMES: I'm here, I was home with a nasty cold and fever yesterday and so didn't check any of my games, I'll post either today or tomorrow with meaningful content.

[GIEFF]

:x

[kloud1516]

Vote count and prods of those who have not made note of their absence (if this applies) coming soon.

[PJ.]

I haven't read present discussion just skimmed. Will read today, possibly after some Street Fighter 4 and turning in job applications.

[Zilla]

Quickie: Sorry Panzer, I forgot your V/LA, and it seemed like you had skipped out when nobody was talking about you anymore :/.

[GIEFF]

qwints, if you really thought the Zilla wagon was scum-driven, shouldn't you be saying something other than just the fact you think it's scum-driven? If your objective is to hunt scum, you wouldn't just use your suspicion of a player being scum as defense, you would use it as offense, trying to build a case against that person.

Or is catching scum not one of your conditions for victory in this game? You seem more eager to defend Zilla than to try to find scum.

Here are your words about Zilla:

On the most likely town side:
Zilla
Asking for a summary is suspicious, but it suggests a lazy player rather than a scummy one. Since then, her posts have been aggressive and fairly detailed.

I read the attack on zilla to be more based on her abrasiveness than her actual play. Being aggressive is pro-town (especially on day 1.) I need to re-read more closely to see if there is a scummy motive behind the misrepresentation

I assume you haven't read more closely yet?

I understand that zilla isn't being attacked for being abrasive, I just think she's being attacked because she is abrasive. I read it as a scum-led drive against an unpopular player.

Here are your words about who you find scummy:

Here are my thoughts so far:
Mykonia and panzer come off as the scummiest players right now, and they could certainly be part of a team. Panzer attacked Mykonia early on and then tried to dismiss it as a joke, despite claiming that his vote "moved us out of the random voting phase." Here's the key points about them that I find scummy:

Panzer
*Seriously votes Mykonia and then tries to back off of it
*Started an unproductive discussion about whether to go after the sk or the mafia
*Attacked GIEFF for tunnel vision rather than dealing with the attack
*Most seriously, asked why Mykonia was scum in post 350

Mykonia (aka: the unhelpful, it burns)
I'll flesh this out soon, but mostly I was bothered by him describing what had happened rather than providing analysis. I also see signs of unhelpful opportunism

"soon" has come and gone, and still no fleshing. I guess you found a softer target in B_B?

vote Beyond_Birthday
I now think that BB is the most likely scum.

Defending scummy play by calling yourself lazy/stupid is unhelpful. This wasn't the first time BB did so. It looks to me like scum trying to pre-empt discussion of their scummy behavior.

Another instance of admitting to anti-town behavior instead of explaining it. You can't just ask us to write off your scummy behavior.

These are literally all the accusations you have made in this thread: not a lot more text than the text you have spent defending Zilla.


It is also odd that you say mykonian and Panzer are the scummiest, yet you hop on the B_B wagon without presenting any original reasons, probably because it looks like an easy lynch.

The same players are driving the Zilla wagon that were driving the B_B wagon; where was this "scum-driven wagon" excuse then?

You have been excessively lurky, your predecessor dropped off the map after being accused of being scummy, and now you are defending a Zilla wagon for reasons that would have applied equally well to the B_B wagon, onto which you QUICKLY hopped without writing a single word about him prior to that point.

Hello, scum. Meet my vote.

unvote

vote qwints

Zilla, I would very much like to hear what you think about my above post.

[Dourgrim]

OK, first of all, I apologize profusely for my hypocrisy. I do NOT usually lurk in games, and I should have made a point of posting content yesterday regardless of being ill. I was home all day, I just didn't trust myself to post clearly in an environment where we've all shown that every single word of every single post can and will be analyzed to the Nth degree. GIEFF has made a living out of pointing out my inconsistencies all game, and I was (I believe rightfully) worried that any analysis I might've provided would be flawed at best.

GIEFF: I am

not

ignoring your question of my stance re: Panzer/myko, but I'm having a very tough time trying to figure out how to phrase my thought processes in that regard. I am going to need to reread the whole frigging thread to figure it out. Not sure about GIEFF still, but I think most of that is because I was in his crosshairs for so long before. There's still the "Dourscum" thing, but that's not really enough to base a case on.

Did I see earlier in the thread that I'm being linked to Zilla now? Is this because I said above that I believed Zilla to probably be Town? I did say that, but I'd be a liar if I said that my opinion hasn't changed since Goat/GIEFF's analysis of Zilla's case. The most telling part for me is Zilla's vote for Goat while BB is supposedly her top suspect. That makes no sense at all. The vote switch later is "too little too late" IMHO.

I can only hope you guys will give me time to read through things and develop more informed opinions here. I have to reduce my posting time, though; work started to suffer in the weeks since I've come back to mafiascum, and I can't let that happen.

I'll say this, though: I don't think Panzer is the best lynch choice anymore today. Not sure whether it's BB or Zilla. I will reread tonight or tomorrow morning and weigh in again.

Sorry for lurking, guys.

[Beyond_Birthday]

unvote

vote qwints

Zilla, I would very much like to hear what you think about my above post.

Interesting and all, but to question Gieff:
If Qwints is scum, what does that alignment say about other players?

At Dour: It seems you have read far enough to know about the turning of tides, but tell me, what do you think of Gieff's attack on qwint?

[GIEFF]

If qwints is scum, then Zilla is more likely to be scum.

But scum can irrationally defend both townies AND scum, so qwints flipping scum wouldn't 100% implicate Zilla.

[Goatrevolt]

Did I see earlier in the thread that I'm being linked to Zilla now? Is this because I said above that I believed Zilla to probably be Town?

I'm guessing you were referring to my "player shift" post. It's unrelated to you saying you thought Zilla was town. I'm not even going to go into it at the moment, because that is contingent on Zilla being lynched and turning up scum. I'm fairly confident she will turn up scum, but getting her lynched has been difficult. Half the game has resorted to lurking or giving feeble Zilla-defenses in light of the recent push. People think the wagon on her is too easy, I'd have to respectfully disagree.

I think qwints is more likely to be scum if Zilla is scum. I think Zilla is far more likely to be scum than qwints is.

GIEFF, do you think the evidence points to qwints being more likely to be scum than Zilla? I'm skeptical of your vote change here, right after you confirmed your vote on Zilla. I think there are decent points against qwints (I don't agree with everything you said, but I'll see how he responds), but is a weaker vote on Birthday and a poor defense of Zilla scummier than the mounds of evidence against her? I can see townie justifications for how qwints has been playing, and I feel his posts have been at least consistent. I simply cannot see townie justifications for Zilla's actions.

[GIEFF]

I would like to hear qwints respond to me before I respond to you, Goat.

[PJ.]

I think this is getting dangerously close to talking too-much and overthinking this first lynch.

[Goatrevolt]

I think this is getting dangerously close to talking too-much and overthinking this first lynch.

What do you mean?

[PJ.]

I'm a believer that a day can be TOO long. It can steer away from the scum and can confuse the town and convolute good conversation and lead to a mislynch.

[Goatrevolt]

I can agree with that. What do you think about Zilla?

[PJ.]

I think Zilla is pretty much Caught Scum. But that's just me. To me, nothing she has said has changed my intial opinion of her.

[Goatrevolt]

Why are you voting Birthday, then?

[qwints]

I think we've learned that failing to follow GIEFF gets you voted...

I don't have time to thoroughly evaluate the case against zilla but it just doesn't feel right to me. Beyond birthday was much scummier.

[mykonian]

Yeah, GIEFF has the same problem that Zilla also has. Failing to agree makes you a target, like I found out both ways. After rereading, I'd like to ask why Zilla attacked me and goat in the start. And why she has the feeling that a whole scumteam is needed to get her this many votes...

[GIEFF]

Do you guys really think that I voted qwints because he didn't agree?

Re-read my post. That is a ridiculous misrepresentation.

[PJ.]

Because I was V/LA and forgot I switched Goat, sorry

Unvote:Vote:Zilla.

[GIEFF]

The same players are driving the Zilla wagon that were driving the B_B wagon; where was this "scum-driven wagon" excuse then?

Still waiting, qwints.