Mini 739 ~ Mafia Jailbreak, Game Over

[bionicchop2]

@CF Riot

I don't know why you are specifically asking me for an opinion on your page 11 post. All I will say is that it didn't convince me that RC is not the player most likely to be scum.

@RC

Why does pops and Rhinox's meta evoke a general town read and my meta not have a factor?

1. Meta is only a portion of my reading.
2. I have not said definitively anywhere that I have a town read on Rhinox based on meta. Please identify where I have.
3. What I saw from pops was very distinct from my perspective, so it holds more weight with me.
4. My skimming of your games did not show me any conclusive differences in your play that I could easily recognize without being in the game and completely aware of the game situations (versus a static read of a completed game)

It is convenient that your 'entrapment' case where you simplified what we talked about dropped responses #1,3 & 4 to the initial question. YOU chose to focus on response #2 because you felt you could strawman that into something that made me look bad for my response. You ignored where your question was answered because I specifically stated how meta did not have any effect on my vote for you. I contrasted it with why the meta on pops did effect my opinion of him.
===========
As for you waiting one more post to claim, that is your choice. Your claim will now not have any impact on my vote since you declined my request to give me adequate time to assess any claim you made.

[Rhinox]

@Rhinox - i was inquiring everyone who was not on either major wagon. I skipped you, Rhinox, for obvious reasons.
I pay less attention to Moriarty because she spends less time pushing crap on me. Sorry. Sue me.

This is a bit of an overreaction, I think. I was just wondering why you felt the need to single moriarty out with a question. No hidden implication behind it, no hidden attack, just curiousity.

[popsofctown]

are you not the same one who was all "rawr, pops is lurker hunting one player at a time, rawr, he's being biased, rawr". I get irritated about things the second time. If you're not the same person who bugged me once, sorry.

[bionicchop2]

A very concise list of why I find Rhinox > RC > pops suspicious in that order:

@All: I still would like a Rhinox lynch. If we cannot get that I could join the pops wagon because of WIFOM, piggyback voting, and fluff posting.

Obviously we can change our opinions on who is scum. Could you explain the leapfrog of pops over RC for potential scum? It seems to directly correlate with the momentum of opinions against Pops and the buzz that maybe a Pops wagon is the more likely alternate to the RC wagon.

[bionicchop2]

If it isn't entrapment, why didn't bionic merely state that I was incorrect and that he didn't arrive to any conclusions on Rhinox in post 344 or even 371?

I did. You skipped it.

town meta read + MOTR game play = current town read for pops.
neutral meta read + semi scummy play = Rhinox not in the top of my suspect list
neutral meta read + excessive scummy play = RC top suspect.

[Rhinox]

are you not the same one who was all "rawr, pops is lurker hunting one player at a time, rawr, he's being biased, rawr". I get irritated about things the second time. If you're not the same person who bugged me once, sorry.

uhhh... no? I don't think so? I have no idea what you're talking about

[CF Riot]

In the same way, i wouldn't post content alongside fluff if i wanted to conceal scumtells, that doesn't even accomplish the goal. Fluff alongside content isn't a tell in any county anyway.

The problem with this is I don't think you are posting content with your fluff.

@All: I still would like a Rhinox lynch. If we cannot get that I could join the pops wagon because of WIFOM, piggyback voting, and fluff posting.

I'm all for this. I think if Pops is a 7 on the scum scale, Rhinox is a 9, but I'd still rather lynch Pops than RC. I think RC's summary of Pops's play is valid, and I don't think Pops's defense really refutes any of it. Interested in the answer to 453.

@Spy

, and this will probably piss you off, can you clarify something for me? Do you think RC and Rhinox are

more likely town

as in town-read on both, or do you simply lack a scum read on either?

@BC

, OK I understand that, and there's nothing wrong with that, except it doesn't answer my questions at all.

Mainly I want to hear from Rishi and Huntress.

This plus Moriarty and OGML, although I did read OGML's excuse so I doubt we'll here from him soon.

[SpyreX]

@Spy, and this will probably piss you off, can you clarify something for me? Do you think RC and Rhinox are more likely town as in town-read on both, or do you simply lack a scum read on either?

HURHRGHHSGARH HULK SMASH!!!

Just kidding. Why would that piss me off?

Thats a good question. I think that it is a combination of factors that lead me to think both are town at this moment:

1.) The "major" offenses that both of them got wagoned for I still for the life of me can't see as scummy - definitely not "good", but not scummy.
2.) The fact that these did get pushed into such a spotlight AND have taken up almost all of day 1 is, on both counts, a pretty solid day 1 for scum.
3.) The behavior in regards to their wagons by more than one person has been questionable.
4.) The fact, really, that the subset of people I find scummy is 1.) voting for them and 2.) not them.

So, in a vacuum... they'd be neutral, within 5% either way. As it sits with it not being a vacuum I'm leaning far more town because of the other factors.

However, I know the necessity of a litmus test and I do fully expect one of them to get lynched (or this day will repeat ad infinium). I also know that if I'm wrong AND the lynch IS scum I'm, really, up shit creek with good reason. Ultimately I'm not all that worried about that though - like I said, I'm confident in my reads.

[popsofctown]

I don't know how to show that i've posted content in this thread besides a nuh-uh yuh-huh fight. I'll quote every single content post i've ever made, and then put that alongside all of someone else's content and show you i have more. Would you like for me to do that? A page of this thread will become a wall of utter quote pain, but i'll do it.

[Huntress]

Huntress what is your opinion of Rhinox? Do you think the case on him is valid? If you were the only one suspicious of RC today, who would you be voting for?

I'm ambivalent about Rhinox at the moment. The only thing I'm reasonably sure about is that he is not partners with RC. My second choice for a vote would probably be SpyreX.

@ SpyreX: I think you overlooked the questions I raised at the beginning of post 402.

[Vi]

Vote Count:

RedCoyote (L-2) ~ Huntress, bionicchop2, Rishi, iamausername, popsofctown

Rhinox (L-4) ~ Jahudo,

RedCoyote,

OhGodMyLife, CF Riot
popsofctown (L-4) ~ SpyreX, Moriarty147, RedCoyote
OhGodMyLife (L-6) ~ Rhinox

Minimum (L-7)

[size=0]bionicchop2 - 0 | Huntress - 0 | iamausername - 1 - PROD1 10 PROD2 2 | Jahudo - 1 | CF Riot - 0 | Moriarty147 - 0 | OhGodMyLife - 0 - PROD1 17 PROD2 3 | popsofctown - 0 | RedCoyote - 0 | Rhinox - 0 | Rishi - 0 | SpyreX - 0 PROD1 9[/size]

Final Deadline: Thursday, Feb 26 2009

(Only got 2 days left)

[Jahudo]

Could you explain the leapfrog of pops over RC for potential scum?

The three reasons I provided in that original post for RC look minor after he’s had a chance to defend. I still find #1 suspicious, #2 is a very minor feeling, and #3 is a null tell after his defense and it now looks like a difference in semantics than trying to misrepresent Rhinox.

On pops he’s still posted fluff but I can understand his argument that he’s had a comparable amount of content to others. But it still seems like the content is not pressuring the people he’s found scummy, or giving original opinionated takes on the wagons he’s joined. The first RC vote was the best example. The switch to Rhinox was odd because he’s also calling it even money and wavering on making AtE a tell. But then he jumped back to RC based on a meta tell and I personally don’t think meta’s are as reliable in this game because I’ve said the posting length, frequency and style feel much more intense than a usual game.

Now I've seen Rhinox's wagon decrease for a while. If it drops further I will change my vote first to pops then to RC to ensure a lynch occurs before deadline. I'm also still looking over pops's latest defense and waiting for RC to answer to it first but there's points he made that I don't buy.

Also I think I need to be walked through the entrapment case of RC vs bionic because I don't see any suspicious stuff on either side. It looked like RC was trying to get a clarification on BC's stand on a meta issue that wasn't laid out and BC gave an answer. I don't see any scummy intent to distort the truth by anybody or any way BC's meta could be interpreted as a scumtell or RC's inference was out of line.


Get well soon Vi

[bionicchop2]

But it still seems like the content is not pressuring the people he’s found scummy, or giving original opinionated takes on the wagons he’s joined. The first RC vote was the best example. The switch to Rhinox was odd because he’s also calling it even money and wavering on making AtE a tell. But then he jumped back to RC based on a meta tell and I personally don’t think meta’s are as reliable in this game because I’ve said the posting length, frequency and style feel much more intense than a usual game.

I guess the best way for someone to not look scummy with their vote is to place a random vote to start the game and then never change it.

[Jahudo]

I don't think I've ever Confirm Voted someone. I don't see the need.

[SpyreX]

I'm ambivalent about Rhinox at the moment. The only thing I'm reasonably sure about is that he is not partners with RC. My second choice for a vote would probably be SpyreX.

@ SpyreX: I think you overlooked the questions I raised at the beginning of post 402.

I suppose I did overlook them. Allow me to further expand.

But what did you read? Are you saying here that you think my case against RC is only this quote from Rhinox? What about the points I made? See post 191 for a summary.

But, lets go back to 191:

Mainly it was what looked like attempts at role-fishing; his statement re: night actions in post 108, and his comment about it being good practice to talk about all roles in post 126. It was also the way he tried to make out that others were assuming that there wasn't an SK. Those were in addition to the points I made earlier at the end of post 101:

I don't like the way RedCoyote kicked off the discussion about self-voting then just let it run without commenting further. I also didn't like his buddying up to me in post 51.

The implication is what counts.

Then who implied that we should assume there isn't an SK?

You said that you would gladly continue to talk about it. That doesn't sound like your hand was forced, or that you would rather not talk about it, or that you were no longer interested in talking about it.

I think that's legitimate scum-hunting. The fact that you responded to it in the way you did is telling.

By a later day we will have more information, however many kills there are, so the circumstances will be different. I can't predict at this stage how soon that will happen.

I don't think anyone has said that we should never discuss the setup, only that it's too soon to do it today.

This is not true. What is your justification for claiming this? And why are you are seeking to discredit my vote by claiming that it is based on a non-tell like this?

Ok, I think I pulled everything relevant.

So, lets break it down:

Why RC is scum via 191:

1.) Because of rolefishing in 108.
2.) Assuming that others were assuming there wasn't an SK.
3.) Talk of role setup in 126.
4.) Buddying up with you.
5.) Starting a discussion on self-voting then leaving.
6.) Constant SK discussion this early in the game.

Am I missing any?

So, sans the fact that (keep in mind I am not rereading to make 100% sure) minus 4 and 5 (which, really, are filler compared to the other issues) multiple people had commented and voted for him based on this at that point I'll give you there was some pre-case on him.

This begs the question: Why was it the summation of something Rhinox said (that wasn't even an indictment of scum from Rhinox) that you voted after

and not your own case

?

But, yes, I will concede it is there.

Actually there was one thing, abouts Korts, but, as I implied in the bit you quoted, I haven't put much in writing yet.

So you've said I'm your #2. Anything at all in writing yet? On CFR or I? Even baseline suspicions?

That was a reference to RC rather than Pops and in that scenario I said that Pops could be scum or town. Nowhere have I said or implied that RC turning up town would in any way mean that Pops couldn't independently be scum.

It's interesting that you say "when RC is lynched and comes up town". What makes you so sure? Was that a slip?

So, is RC-scum bussing scum-partner Pops, maybe to give him townie points if RC is lynched or to shift the wagon off himself, or is he pretending to bus an innocent Pops? I think the former is more likely but both are possibilities. (Yes, I know there are two other possibilities but I think they are even less likely.)

So, lets have a few postulates.

1.) You believe RC is scum (hence your vote).
2.) You said that there are two scenarios:
a.) RC is bussing pops (i.e. they are both scum).
b.) RC is "pretending" to bus pops (i.e. pops is town.)
3.) You said the former is more likely (2.a.).
4.) You have shown no real suspicion of pops as independently being scum.

Now, keep in mind I do believe both you and pops to be scummy - and I wouldn't be surprised one whit if you were scum together. So, like I said in that post: when RC turns up town (like I think he is), then pops is, of course, not going to be a subject of pushing.

If this is wrong, it really lies on #4. Show me somewhere, anywhere, where you've shown suspicion of pops on his own and I'll have to rethink this. Of course, I'd also like to see actual suspicion on the other people you've said you are suspicious of (sans RC, who we covered).

Have I missed anything else?

[RedCoyote]

I'll start, i'm only willing to see RC lynched.

You find no one else scummy besides me?

Yeah, sure, my two line riddles totally threw off everyone's focus on the game, making it functionally unreadable.

9 posts != two lines of riddles. We're here to have fun, but we're also here to play this game. When someone votes you, with the significant reason for doing so the fluffy nature of your posts, and you ignore him in favor of more fluff, how do you think that makes you look?

You're breaking up my argument in a very strange way. You stated that you've not been oblivious to this game, I quoted what I find to be your worst offense of this game, the height of obliviousness, Spy putting serious weight on your growing wagon while you completely ignore it.

You take an objective look at this thread and my content matches Rishi, Huntress, and anyone.

It's not about the raw number of posts that contain content pops, it's about how you went about favoring fluff over content at times that really called for content.

172 isn't a response to 149, the way you quoted makes me think you're repainting history.

I misunderstood your post 172 then. Whatever the case, why would you consider a vote rhetorical? Do you mean to say you thought Spy was just trying to pressure you into posting more content at the time?

I'm beginning to think i know what i'm doing.

Beginning to? You've been saying that I should be the lynch because you can't read me basically since the game started.

I say you're tying yourself to me, and then from that point on you start screaming that i'm suspicious and start acting like you've been saying that the whole thread.

No sir, this is wholly inaccurate. The first time you bring up the "tying" argument is in post 217. You should be aware of my suspicions since post 152, when I formally said as much.

It's suspicious to make oneself unreadable.

Not only do I completely disagree with this, I don't even agree that I've been "unreadable".

I don't want to excuse anything.

Then why do you continue to say things like,

"In the past few pages, i've been getting less gut feeling about Rhinox being scum. Is it because she's actually town, or because she appeals to emotion every other post? I can't say which."
"i won't be able to read [RC] at all."
"He's like K7, in a different way, evidence shows that i can't read him. In this case it's not because he won't post, it's because he's too good at this game."

What are we supposed to think about this? That it's okay if I flip town because you couldn't read me anyways?

Not being able to play with children other than Rhinox is not an excuse for playing rough with Rhinox and playing rough on the occasion we let you play with the other children. You know it'd be horrendous if they caught the mono, that's why we keep you two in.

I have no idea what this means or what it's refering to.

I can strawman too RC! RC thinks i'm scum because I think he's scum.

Huh? How could that be all you've gotten out of what I said? None of my reasons have anything to do with what you think of me, it's the reasons you claim that have gotten you there that trouble me.

Bandwagonning on theory beliefs is not bandwagoning. It's learning. I tried to figure out on what our policy should be on an early vanilla claim, and my vote moved around until i understood.

BC is smart. He's good people.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with gleaning theory info from BC.

Why are CF Riot, RC, and username's opinions inherently less valuable than those of bionic or Rhinox? If anything me and Rhinox should cancel out, seeing as how we have a bias in the argument, but that still leaves it at a two-to-one.

I mean, it appears to me you were just looking for a reason not to have to vote Rhinox.

OMGUS doesn't help. Cos' i really think you liked your own case on Rhinox better, but i think i've stepped on your tail.

I do, I think Rhinox is scummy as ever.

But that doesn't mean I think you're townie.

And it's laughable that you would label my vote as OMGUS at this stage of the game given the circumstances.

I'd say we ought to have Rishi Htress feedback before RC's claim, if we can manage. I mean, if i am going to be the lynch for the day after all, there's no sense in RC having a claim out.

Based on post 325 by OGML, and with Jahudo and CF Riot's recent commentary, I do believe you can be lynched today pops.

It's unfortunate that Rishi, Huntress, and username have really put this game on the back burner, because it forces me into a very awkward position.

It's basically forcing me to put all my chips on Rhinox, a person who I do think is scum. Rhinox has claimed multiple times that he doesn't see me as scum, so I think he'd be hardpressed to vote me at L-2 if pops is going to be at L-1 on Thursday (assuming CF Riot, Jahudo, and OGML's opinions have not changed, and given that Rishi, Huntress, and username are all wild cards).

That being said, I'm putting the farm on the pops wagon. As you can tell, I'm foregoing the claim I promised I would make, mainly because, and I agree with pops on this point, neither Huntress nor Rishi have made their positions clear like bionic, Jahudo, Spy, or CF Riot.

---

It is convenient that your 'entrapment' case where you simplified what we talked about dropped responses #1,3 & 4 to the initial question.

3 and 4 have nothing to do with Rhinox's meta, and 1 is hardly arguable. Did you expect me to argue that I considered meta to encompass your entire hunting technique? I know meta is only a portion of your reading, but I also know how much value you place on it (i.e. "irresponsible" not to use meta-reads).

---

I'm ambivalent about Rhinox at the moment. The only thing I'm reasonably sure about is that he is not partners with RC. My second choice for a vote would probably be SpyreX.

@ SpyreX: I think you overlooked the questions I raised at the beginning of post 402.

Why would you bother to post this and not reference pops at all? It seems like this post would've better served us 4 days ago.

FoS: Huntress

[Moriarty147]

My apologies for taking so long to post, it's the second week of midterms here and I just had one today, as well as another on Thursday.

Anyway. First off, I'm kind of surprised at how Rhinox's wagon seems to be dissolving and RC's still gaining steam, given how between the two of them, Rhinox has far far more transgressions against him.

This is a bit of an overreaction, I think. I was just wondering why you felt the need to single moriarty out with a question.

Why not? I was one of the 2 people voting him at the time and I haven't offered detailed opinions on which of the major wagons I'd vote for today (to avoid a no lynch) if I had to. It's certainly not a strange question by any means.

RC I'm fairly confident is town. I've read through a lot of the cases on him and they seem to be fairly weak. Most of it's related to fallout from the earlygame SK discussion (Huntress, I'm fairly sure that post where you vote RC makes a valid point that his argument is useless, but nowhere does it show why it's

scummy

), and in some cases I'm not even sure (pops and Rishi). I like bio's case on him, but disagree with its points. What I don't like is the amount of people who seemed to just piggyback on it. Not sure what to make of it just yet.

Rhinox...less confident that he's town. Rhinox, if you had to, where would you move your vote today? Given that it's extremely extremely unlikely that OGML is going to get lynched today. Even after we throw out the AtE and WIFOM, there's not that much scumhunting going on, but he does appear to approach a lot of things from strange angles that may indicate a different approach to scumhunting. I'd much rather see pops or Rishi lynched today, but I'd vote Rhinox over RC if those were my only two choices.

Actually we could have everyone say what persons they would like to see lynched and we could do a matrix. I'll start, i'm only willing to see RC lynched.

Not sooner than a couple posts ago you were willing to vote Rhinox as well, then switched back to RC based off of Rhinox's AtE. Now you won't vote Rhinox at all? Strange.

I'm actually kind of annoyed at the fact that a great deal of the pops case seems to be from him posting riddles. Equally well if we remove those, we still have content equivalent to, say, Rishi's. The riddles themselves are a freaking null tell.

That being said, my vote is staying on pops due to a bunch of reasons (strange vote-hopping and the case on RC which basically amounts to "I'm not sure what alignment he is so I'll assume he's scum and vote him,

on day one

", which is just idiotic this early in the game)

[Rishi]

That being said, I've become increasing more uncomfortable with RC after his last few posts. I'm still not sure if he's scum, but if a vote is needed at deadline, I'd be willing to vote him to prevent a no-lynch.

No one mentioned this. At the time you said this, RC was the only viable wagon other than your own (now the pops wagon is somewhat viable). So, obviously, you would have to switch a vote to him eventually. This sounds like you want to go "on the record" in case RC flips town. Not necessarily scummy, but it seems odd to say since your eventual vote for RC is almost inevitable.

In other news, it bothers me that RC has started going up against pops and Huntress (and implied some suspicion of me). Spyrex's list again. Interesting. It seems that he's desperate to find any wagon other than his own.

I'd say we ought to have Rishi Htress feedback before RC's claim, if we can manage. I mean, if i am going to be the lynch for the day after all, there's no sense in RC having a claim out.

Weird statement. What makes you think you're the lynch for the day?

That being said, I'm putting the farm on the pops wagon. As you can tell, I'm foregoing the claim I promised I would make, mainly because, and I agree with pops on this point, neither Huntress nor Rishi have made their positions clear like bionic, Jahudo, Spy, or CF Riot.

I'd be willing to vote for either Rhinox or pops to avoid a No Lynch, but I would strongly prefer to lynch you. I have about the same opinion on both of them - leaning town on both, but I'm not 100% convinced.

Claim, please. It feels like you're deliberately stalling.

I'm actually kind of annoyed at the fact that a great deal of the pops case seems to be from him posting riddles. Equally well if we remove those, we still have content equivalent to, say, Rishi's. The riddles themselves are a freaking null tell.

When did I become the poster boy for inactivity? You do realize that you've only made 9 posts in this game? Even if you throw in the 6 posts from your predecessor, you still have posted about as much as I have.

[popsofctown]

Why the specific talk to Rishi?

Why mention Korts and username and leave me oddly out, once again?

pops was canoodling with the mod about riddles and replacements and so forth, that's not good enough for you Spy?

FoS: popsofctown

RC, that's all you had before the tie accusation. And it seems really forced.

[popsofctown]

I'll start, i'm only willing to see RC lynched.

You find no one else scummy besides me?

Some lurkers for lurking. But no one comes close to you.

Yeah, sure, my two line riddles totally threw off everyone's focus on the game, making it functionally unreadable.

9 posts != two lines of riddles. We're here to have fun, but we're also here to play this game. When someone votes you, with the significant reason for doing so the fluffy nature of your posts, and you ignore him in favor of more fluff, how do you think that makes you look?

I didn't respond to Spyrex's earliest offenses because he was using the sort of stuff that's weak but indefensible, iirc. I could have quoted him and done a colon P, but i'm guessing you wouldn't have liked that.

You're breaking up my argument in a very strange way. You stated that you've not been oblivious to this game, I quoted what I find to be your worst offense of this game, the height of obliviousness, Spy putting serious weight on your growing wagon while you completely ignore it.

You take an objective look at this thread and my content matches Rishi, Huntress, and anyone.

It's not about the raw number of posts that contain content pops, it's about how you went about favoring fluff over content at times that really called for content.

Let me play my own game RC. If i don't want to address someone who's saying something like "he's scum because he asked us a riddle" or "only scum use meta" (that's not an exact quote, and it's extreme strawmanning but it's just examples), because i think they can stand alone against the town's scrutiny, let it be. I defend myself when i think a suspicion is pretty heavy unless debunked. I mean do you remember Spyrex's post that voted me dude? "Here's a story about a bunch of guys that spilled salt and then made a big deal about it. On an unrelated note, vote:pops", paraphrase.

172 isn't a response to 149, the way you quoted makes me think you're repainting history.

I misunderstood your post 172 then. Whatever the case, why would you consider a vote rhetorical? Do you mean to say you thought Spy was just trying to pressure you into posting more content at the time?

I don't consider votes rhetorical. At some point, Spy said he asked me a question that i never answered for him. Then i said "i'm sorry, where is it? I might have accidentally skipped it because i thought it was a rhetorical question." Then i said i'd find it myself. Then i said i wasn't sure which one it was after looking on my own. No one ever said what/where/which the question really was.

I'm beginning to think i know what i'm doing.

Beginning to? You've been saying that I should be the lynch because you can't read me basically since the game started.

I'm beginning to think my meta is good. And that's a strawman, i've been saying you're scummy by meta and besides that i read you very poorly.

I say you're tying yourself to me, and then from that point on you start screaming that i'm suspicious and start acting like you've been saying that the whole thread.

No sir, this is wholly inaccurate. The first time you bring up the "tying" argument is in post 217. You should be aware of my suspicions since post 152, when I formally said as much.

Yeah, this stirred me up enough to make me double post. a forced bizarre insert in another post was not enough justification for you to start carrying on like you've been against me all thread long.

It's suspicious to make oneself unreadable.

Not only do I completely disagree with this, I don't even agree that I've been "unreadable".

It's definitely suspicious to intentionally make oneself unreadable. But that has nothing to do with you, this quote is about Rhinox's AtE making him unreadable.

I don't want to excuse anything.

Then why do you continue to say things like,

"In the past few pages, i've been getting less gut feeling about Rhinox being scum. Is it because she's actually town, or because she appeals to emotion every other post? I can't say which."
"i won't be able to read [RC] at all."
"He's like K7, in a different way, evidence shows that i can't read him. In this case it's not because he won't post, it's because he's too good at this game."

What are we supposed to think about this? That it's okay if I flip town because you couldn't read me anyways?

I say stuff like that because i believe in being honest with the town, although this game is seriously shaking that belief.
But i don't mean to dissociate myself from responsibility for the lynch. If people want to apply Bayes' theorem and say i've been lynching too much town and count this one in, that's totally legit.

Not being able to play with children other than Rhinox is not an excuse for playing rough with Rhinox and playing rough on the occasion we let you play with the other children. You know it'd be horrendous if they caught the mono, that's why we keep you two in.

I have no idea what this means or what it's refering to.

You were whining about how the thread is only about you and Rhinox. That doesn't acquit you of any suspicion.

I can strawman too RC! RC thinks i'm scum because I think he's scum.

Huh? How could that be all you've gotten out of what I said? None of my reasons have anything to do with what you think of me, it's the reasons you claim that have gotten you there that trouble me.

No, RC, you don't get it. Strawmanning is bad. I'm suggesting that you were strawmanning. My example of strawmanning is just a joke.
If you have no sense of humor, just read that bit as "what i've quoted here is a strawman".

Bandwagonning on theory beliefs is not bandwagoning. It's learning. I tried to figure out on what our policy should be on an early vanilla claim, and my vote moved around until i understood.

BC is smart. He's good people.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with gleaning theory info from BC.

Why are CF Riot, RC, and username's opinions inherently less valuable than those of bionic or Rhinox? If anything me and Rhinox should cancel out, seeing as how we have a bias in the argument, but that still leaves it at a two-to-one.

username and CFRiot are both against policy lynching over vanilla claims. That's the way i understood it. Like, they think it's something you should weigh in but you shouldn't lynch one that's not suspicious.

I mean, it appears to me you were just looking for a reason not to have to vote Rhinox.

OMGUS doesn't help. Cos' i really think you liked your own case on Rhinox better, but i think i've stepped on your tail.

I do, I think Rhinox is scummy as ever.

But that doesn't mean I think you're townie.

And it's laughable that you would label my vote as OMGUS at this stage of the game given the circumstances.

Finally you laugh at something. If you flip town, and i doubt you will, i'm calling you town tightwad. But if you're scum it's ok to be tense. Being scum makes me pretty tense.

I'd say we ought to have Rishi Htress feedback before RC's claim, if we can manage. I mean, if i am going to be the lynch for the day after all, there's no sense in RC having a claim out.

Based on post 325 by OGML, and with Jahudo and CF Riot's recent commentary, I do believe you can be lynched today pops.

It's unfortunate that Rishi, Huntress, and username have really put this game on the back burner, because it forces me into a very awkward position.

It's basically forcing me to put all my chips on Rhinox, a person who I do think is scum. Rhinox has claimed multiple times that he doesn't see me as scum, so I think he'd be hardpressed to vote me at L-2 if pops is going to be at L-1 on Thursday (assuming CF Riot, Jahudo, and OGML's opinions have not changed, and given that Rishi, Huntress, and username are all wild cards).

That being said, I'm putting the farm on the pops wagon. As you can tell, I'm foregoing the claim I promised I would make, mainly because, and I agree with pops on this point, neither Huntress nor Rishi have made their positions clear like bionic, Jahudo, Spy, or CF Riot.

I hope you can post again. The claim->lynch order of business is really kind of nice.
I can check the thread enough for L-1 claiming, as a note.

[bionicchop2]

That being said, my vote is staying on pops due to a bunch of reasons (strange vote-hopping and the case on RC which basically amounts to "I'm not sure what alignment he is so I'll assume he's scum and vote him,

on day one

", which is just idiotic this early in the game)

Could you go into detail about the part in parenthesis? The way you write it seems like it becomes less idiotic in later days to lynch somebody you have no good read on - since you italicized "on day one". This is the exact opposite of how I feel. I certainly wouldn't want to flip a coin in lylo. If the mod came in and said we need to pick one day which we would completely random lynch somebody by dice rolling, I would make it day 1 every time. Please explain your emphasis of the day one part.

[Moriarty147]

Could you go into detail about the part in parenthesis? The way you write it seems like it becomes less idiotic in later days to lynch somebody you have no good read on - since you italicized "on day one". This is the exact opposite of how I feel. I certainly wouldn't want to flip a coin in lylo. If the mod came in and said we need to pick one day which we would completely random lynch somebody by dice rolling, I would make it day 1 every time. Please explain your emphasis of the day one part.

The problem with quicklynching someone you have

no read

on, as opposed to

a scummy read

on, on day 1, is this essentially eliminates the possibility of GETTING a read on them later in the game. Unreadable scum often become readable after their scumbuddies flip, for instance. LYLO certainly isn't the place to lynch someone at random either, but neither is day 1

if there are scummier people around on day 1

, which I believe there are.

[bionicchop2]

Could you go into detail about the part in parenthesis? The way you write it seems like it becomes less idiotic in later days to lynch somebody you have no good read on - since you italicized "on day one". This is the exact opposite of how I feel. I certainly wouldn't want to flip a coin in lylo. If the mod came in and said we need to pick one day which we would completely random lynch somebody by dice rolling, I would make it day 1 every time. Please explain your emphasis of the day one part.

The problem with quicklynching someone you have

no read

on, as opposed to

a scummy read

on, on day 1

, is this essentially eliminates the possibility of GETTING a read on them later in the game. Unreadable scum often become readable after their scumbuddies flip, for instance. LYLO certainly isn't the place to lynch someone at random either, but neither is day 1

if there are scummier people around on day 1

, which I believe there are.

I bolded a portion of your quote. You are adding non-existent parameters to our current situation. Can you identify where Pops is choosing RC over another player that he does have a scummy read on?

[iamausername]

Also, "quicklynch". We're one day from deadline. We've had 19 pages of discussion. Where is the "quick" in that?

[popsofctown]

it is deadline day guys. VOTE