Mini 738: The Town of Merrin - Game Over

[mykonian]

Actually you are right, upon verification, although I think you are at the lower participation side of town, it's not very just to call you a lurker.

I suspect that there are very few people on the high side . But you are right, I should have participated like Zilla, goat and GIEFF.

But don't think for an instant that I have 'no right' to accuse people of lurking.

you are right, shouldn't have said that. textbook example of a personal attack I was annoyed, but that is not an excuse.

[GIEFF]

B_B, mykonian, Panzer, and Zilla are my 4. qwints could be on that list too, pending his response to my question.

mykonian's 180 still seems way too abrupt to me. I know Panzer himself just admitted I was right, but he had ALREADY admitted it, many pages ago. mykonian ignored it then, and he ignored it every time I brought it up subsequently.

[kloud1516]

Vote Count XII

Panzerjager

(5): ting=), subgenius, springlullaby, Zilla, qwints

Zilla

(3): Beyond_Birthday, Panzerjager, Dourgrim

Beyond_Birthday

(1): GIEFF,

qwints

(1): mykonian

Not Voting:

militant, Goatrevolt

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

Please notify me if there is a discrepancy in the list above

[militant]

I read your post, I think you didn't completely understand the motivation behind the one where I asked for three people. I want to see if we can force this day to an end by just looking who the most people think suspicious, and that way find a lynch most of us can agree on. Even if your suspicions are not that clear, would you name them?

I guess, well it would be Zilla, B_B and Panzerjager.

Dourgrim: Since you wished to end the day pages and pages ago by voting Zilla I presume you still favour the day ending soon. Why are you still voting for Zilla, who is less likely to get lynched now rather than Panzerjager who is more likely to be lynched?

[mykonian]

B_B, mykonian, Panzer, and Zilla are my 4. qwints could be on that list too, pending his response to my question.

mykonian's 180 still seems way too abrupt to me. I know Panzer himself just admitted I was right, but he had ALREADY admitted it, many pages ago. mykonian ignored it then, and he ignored it every time I brought it up subsequently.

Can I miss things too? I couldn't remember the original. and I know you quoted it, one sentence that would prove that Panzer said you were right. I did' that then, because I thought: "Panzer can never have said that, it must have been out of context"

[GIEFF]

I did' that then, because I thought: "Panzer can never have said that, it must have been out of context"

As I've said many times before, you were not interested in having a discussion. You were only interested in keeping your pre-set view on the situation, and refusing to take in any new information. This is not how a townie should play. Truth should be your main objective, not consistency of your case.

It is flat-out ridiculous that you refused to even consider my point of view, and argued with me over it for 30 pages, and now suddenly are completely convinced, going so far as to call ME townie and PANZER scum.

I can't wrap my head around a townie playing that way.

[mykonian]

of course, I shouldn't have played this way, tell me something. I should have checked where that quote came from, to verify that in context it meant the same thing. I should have stood open to the fact that Panzer thought you were right, and that he admitted to have seriously overreacted on a post in the random voting stage, something that is simply not normal play. The fact that he seriously thought I thought you SK is still hard for me to understand. I don't know how someone based on only what was posted could ever come to that conclusion.

So yes, because I simply couldn't understand it that someone would say something like that, the discussion dragged on far too long. I didn't want to keep my case consistent, I thought it unbelievable someone would say that in such a situation.

It was ridiculous, but I didn't intent it to be.

[Zilla]

Militant, you may have now noticed by the last votecount that I AM voting for Panzer.

I agree with GIEFF here, Mykonian completely changed his tune very, VERY quickly, over information he already had, and now thinks Panzer may be scum, which means his entire rationale behind him being town was that GIEFF was attacking him, and he thought GIEFF was scum for attacking Panzer...

Militant's question to Dour is important; why are you voting me if you prefer a Panzer lynch and Panzer is more likely to be lynched?

Mykonian has not been doing any scumhunting, and even his reason for having us list our top three smells like scum trying to steer a lynch.

[mykonian]

zilla, stop doing that please. This is as subjective as it can be.

The information was available, I didn't use it (not on purpose). The way Panzer said it now was direct enough to wake me up. My whole case on GIEFF was that he tunneled with a case based on a misrep. My whole case proved to be not true, so I had to look at the game different. I believed GIEFF scum because I thought his case was not so good that it deserved that attention. Follows that Panzer should have been scum. The fact that GIEFF his case was true, does say a lot about GIEFF, don't you think?

And again: I have done no scumhunting. No I don't nitpick at posts like you do. I'm sorry.

And I want to steer a lynch, you say. Since when is asking opinions to come to a consensus "steering a lynch"? That is simply trying to find something scummy in every post.

[Zilla]

I'd definately like to see Mykonian explain how GIEFF was scum for attacking panzer and panzer was town for being attacked by GIEFF.

[mykonian]

I'd definately like to see Mykonian explain how GIEFF was scum for attacking panzer and panzer was town for being attacked by GIEFF.

are you satisfied with the post above, or should I explain better?

[Zilla]

lol @ crosspost.

Mistaken case or not, you held that Panzer had to be town and GIEFF had to be scum. You tunnneled on him, and you heavily defended Panzer, especially wierd considering his initial attack on you. Suddenly, because you "suddenly realize" (though this happened before, so you claimed) that GIEFF's case was not mistaken, everything changes.

I don't like this hairpin turn. Why was the case so tunnelvisioned that it was based on one small detail?

In fact, you claim you don't "nitpick" but now your ONLY thing you've done for scumhunting is revealed to have been bringing up one person's "mistake" and continuing to push it, no matter how many times it was refuted and explained. And then, once that's refuted, your entire outlook is reversed.

Why was Panzer not scummy before? Are you saying right now that the only reason you find Panzer scummy is because GIEFF turned out to have a valid point that Panzer lied about thinking your vote was a joke?

[kloud1516]

SensFan replaces subgenius, effective immediately.

[mykonian]

lol @ crosspost.

Mistaken case or not, you held that Panzer had to be town and GIEFF had to be scum. You tunnneled on him, and you heavily defended Panzer, especially wierd considering his initial attack on you. Suddenly, because you "suddenly realize" (though this happened before, so you claimed) that GIEFF's case was not mistaken, everything changes.

I don't like this hairpin turn. Why was the case so tunnelvisioned that it was based on one small detail?

In fact, you claim you don't "nitpick" but now your ONLY thing you've done for scumhunting is revealed to have been bringing up one person's "mistake" and continuing to push it, no matter how many times it was refuted and explained. And then, once that's refuted, your entire outlook is reversed.

Why was Panzer not scummy before? Are you saying right now that the only reason you find Panzer scummy is because GIEFF turned out to have a valid point that Panzer lied about thinking your vote was a joke?

No, that was the problem, each time I tried to tell GIEFF what went wrong, what the misrep was, he didn't explain to me how I was wrong (He probably didn't understand what could have gone wrong), while I had the feeling he didn't want to get it to that point. That "mistake" was the basis of a case his pushed, so I wouldn't call it a small thing.

And again, I still can't believe Panzer said that. It is not simply refuted, the person admitted to have intented a certain play to be very weird, while I thought there was a normal explanation for it. I felt that an agressive towny (and I expected some agressiveness from Panzer) was misrepresented and attacked for no reason: If a case looks bad to me, I'm not going to look the other way.

and why Panzer is scummy? The first weird play, and the way he acts now, his reluctance to be involved. I thought that weird earlier, and it could be explained as annoyed town. I thought I had scum with GIEFF, and Panzer was seriously not his buddy, so I didn't think about it. Now I do.

[mykonian]

SensFan replaces subgenius, effective immediately.

what a hero! (did you realize our day 1 has not ended yet, and this is page 38?)

[qwints]

I'm just posting to note that I was gone for the last three days - the hotel I was at didn't have free internet. I'll re-read as soon as I get the chance and post.

[GIEFF]

each time I tried to tell GIEFF what went wrong, what the misrep was, he didn't explain to me how I was wrong

This is laughably wrong.

[Dourgrim]

I don't have much time to read on weekends, and tomorrow's going to be a hellishly busy day at work for me. I'll try to catch up tomorrow.

[mykonian]

each time I tried to tell GIEFF what went wrong, what the misrep was, he didn't explain to me how I was wrong

This is laughably wrong.

No, that was the feeling I got. For example that quoted post, where a part was bolded. I said you had the wrong part bolded, you said Panzer agreed with it, and that was that. I acted there in the wrong way: but I already thought you were scum.

[Goatrevolt]

Spring: I thought you were town back when I made those comments because I was convinced Zilla was scum, and your Dejkha pressure didn't seem like busing. Since you stopped lurking, I've found your posting to be fairly pro-town. I've disagreed with some of it, but little of it has struck me as scummy. My only problem is your "lack of preferences" with willingness to lynch half the game, but that seems to be a common theme with you. Also, I will say that your play this game is not at all similar to your play in our last game. I can't pinpoint the difference, but you just don't seem scummy here, whereas you always seemed scummy to me in that game. I trust my read on you for now.

My top 3 are Qwints/BB/Zilla. Currently, I'd go for a lynch in that order, but I want to hear more content from qwints (an answer to the repeated question would be nice) before really committing there.

[PJ.]

First off I would like to here from qwints who shot himself right up next to Zilla on my Scum Leaderboard by being so obviously connected with her and obviously oppurtunistic with the vote on myself and BB. I believe the quote is that I hadn't explained my contradictions clearly. How much more clear can I be. The only contradiction I have been apart of is the Mykonian thing. I've owned up to that and the lead interogater has dropped it because I simply read one sentence twice a day apart and reacted to it differently. My bad.

Panzer: Highly lacking in original scumhunting content, active lurking, refusing to read posts, desperate for my claim, tunneling, possible links to Goat/Mykonian, an "anyone but me" mentality (could he be self-aligned?), and his lynch gives information on a lot of the game.

Ok, lacking original content. Already went over and has been dropped by everyone who isn't 100% determined to find me scummy(aka everyone but you). Also, we have determined that orignality makes your point more/less valid or the player more/less scummy. Will come back to this orignal content. I was not desperate for this claim, I was demanding it because you were L-2 and I found you the most scummy and still do. Tunneling: LMAO. I have tunneled the least out of everyone in this game. Gieff, Goat, Dourgrim, and most notably(and the biggest offender ironicaly) YOURSELF. So Tunneling shouldn't even be on my list. Possible links to goat and mykonian. Funny that, everyone that your suspicious of happens to have thought you were scummy until recently except for me and I'm the last one saying that you're on top of my list. I don't see my anyone but me mentality, I believe I've been quite explicit that I wanted the day to end and us to lynch someone. I didn't specify that It didn't need to be me. Of course I prefer it but I've gone to great lengths to get people to calm down and stop convoluting the information so far this day. My lynch giving us info is just BS. At this point about 8 of us would give a lot of information to the town. Everyone except Timg, Sens, SL, and Militant seeing they've been the least involve.

I was not lurking anywhere in this game until like 10 pages ago. In which a clearly demonstrated why and thus did so, and people are finally coming to their senses and trying to end the day and I'm be called scummy for this. I find this extremely oppurtunistic.

I'm back seeing as people have come to their sense and I'm gonna defend myself and push my 3.

Zilla: Being oppurtunistic, A spin doctor, and clearly just OMGUSing people with BS reasons or piggy backing those of GIEFF(who finds me 3 on his list, just barely abouve Zilla). She was completely oppused to my idea of ending the day and streamling discussion because she was lowest on the vote count now that I'm back in the spotlight she is all over my lynch.

Qwints: Very oppurtunistic jump onto my wagon. And has been doing whatever he can to get Zilla out of the line of fire.

B_B and GIEFF are tied her. GIEFF for Spin-Doctoring and B_B for the oppurtunistic jump off of my wagon earlier.

Any other questions I can answer will be appreciated. I'm definently willing to defend my self as i have nothing to hide.

Also my vote is gonna be for either Qwints or Zilla today.

[SensFan]

SensFan replaces subgenius, effective immediately.

what a hero! (did you realize our day 1 has not ended yet, and this is page 38?)

Yep.

On that note, give me a day or two. If anyone claimed, it'd be great if someone could tell me that ASAP, before I read.

[mykonian]

no, no claims till now.

[GIEFF]

It may be worthwhile to skip the pages of back-and-forth between Zilla and Goat, and just read their summaries later on.

[Beyond_Birthday]

See above on what to skip, and thus far, I see qwints and Zilla's name coming up over and over again. Anyone here wanna say who to lynch since both are on my list too. Kinda want Zilla first because of the information that pushes her to be more valuable in addition to her scumminess. And Qwints might be scummier to other people so... yeah, if you had to pick, who?

*votes Zilla*