Mini 731 Speed Dating Smalltown: Over!

[Empking]

@Korts: Was this

I agree with Shanba on the Empking wagon when it comes to Empking's role, and I agree that his craplogic and tunnelvision isn't scummy, only anti-town. If the majority wants him for a lynch, he'll still be around tomorrow,

but tracker is possibly the most useful role in the setup for town, and the least useful for scum.

a breadcrumb?

No. What would I be breadcrumbing here?

That you would use your ability as it would help town either way.

How do you get that? I'm curious.

Bolded for you.

I still don't get it.

[shaft.ed]

"Can't you all just vote for the same person so we can get this thing moving along," Priscilla suggested obviously annoyed. Paula added "I think they're all guilty. Let's just get rid of every last one of them."

Vote Count:

orangepenguin

(3) neko2086, MafiaSSK

MafiaSSK

(2) orangepenguin, Korts

Empking

(1) hohum

hohum

(1) Empking

neko2086

(1) Oman

Korts

(1) farside22

Not Voting

: Shanba, Tanarin

With 10 alive it's 6 to lynch or 5 to No Lynch.

[neko2086]

Thank you, Tan.

This got me thinking, what did you think of SSK while/after talking to him in private?


SSK, same question about Tan.

[farside22]

Neko why are you voting for OP?

[neko2086]

Pretty sure I've been talking about him a lot lately, but through our conversations I think his night choice is more than just unfortunate, that he hasn't been scumhunting (though apparently I haven't either, so what do I know), that he's drawing baseless (until he can answer my question about it) connections between myself, SSK, and empking, and that his appeals to emotion as well as his omgusy reaction and deflection to me

really

aren't helping his cause.

I still have a question for him as well as others on the table, so clearly I'm not 100% sold on him.

Also, my case on him does not rely on him being a SK. It was just a thought I wanted to toy with.

[Korts]

So who wants to join me in the SSK lynch?

[farside22]

So who wants to join me in the SSK lynch?

You still want to lynch him after everything he said? Why?

[Korts]

Because he opportunistically jumped on OP's wagon to L-1, and to defend himself he initially referenced something that didn't exist. From Tan's version of the story I didn't get the feeling they talked much about OP other than being uneasy about him. Referencing a non-existent case implies, to me, a lazy way out of explaining opportunism (L-1 vote).

So, wagon?

[farside22]

Because he opportunistically jumped on OP's wagon to L-1, and to defend himself he initially referenced something that didn't exist. From Tan's version of the story I didn't get the feeling they talked much about OP other than being uneasy about him. Referencing a non-existent case implies, to me, a lazy way out of explaining opportunism (L-1 vote).

So, wagon?

Excuse me I just looked can you point out where Tan's has a story about his talks with Mafia please?

[Korts]

Neko: Basically we were concerned about his lack of posting and his behavior, I know in the end I felt i was scummy but not enough to vote on at the time.

This is what I was talking about, farside. Even though none of the relevant keywords are present I'm fairly certain Tan was talking about speaking to MafiaSSK regarding OP's scumminess.

[farside22]

Neko: Basically we were concerned about his lack of posting and his behavior, I know in the end I felt i was scummy but not enough to vote on at the time.

This is what I was talking about, farside. Even though none of the relevant keywords are present I'm fairly certain Tan was talking about speaking to MafiaSSK regarding OP's scumminess.

What about what Mafia has said after that about other things going on, does that not change your view of him?

[MafiaSSK]

Thank you, Tan.

This got me thinking, what did you think of SSK while/after talking to him in private?


SSK, same question about Tan.

I thought Tan was town.

[Tanarin]

Thank you, Tan.

This got me thinking, what did you think of SSK while/after talking to him in private?


SSK, same question about Tan.

As I mentioned during D1 I got mostly town vibes off of him, though towards the end things did trail off communication wise. Only reason I didn't say anything is because I knew he was busy. (Seeing him on IRC and all.)

[Shanba]

On another note completely I really get scum vibes from Korts that just aren't going away. His reasons for hohum and case is really lacking.

I've been skimming Korts ever since day 1, where I became all but convinced he was town. I read the argument at the beginning of the day and, frankly, it looks like a storm in a teacup to me. I don't like his liaison with empking, earlier, it looked very much like he was trying to link himself to emp, but that's all I got on him.

We really need a dead scum. I just feel that if we get one scum, this whole game will break open, but it's not quite there yet.

Oman's being quiet is that normal for him? Last game I was in he was pretty talkative and turned out to be scum. Now I get the complete opposite. He seems like a player who is quick to turn around 180 as town or scum. However more games I've played and he was quiet he was town.

I don't really know, tbh. My big experience with Oman is Fire Emblem mafia, where he completely snowed me with an excellent gambit, and so I did not pay much attention to him all game. So far, I've agreed with him, though, and his attitude towards the game, generally, feel pro-town (and I've had a couple of instances when reading his posts of "that's a pro-town perspective, difficult for scum to think like that").

@Farside: I don't think his reasoning was adequate, but I think it it was legitimate. The distinction I'm making is that while I do not think that using his ability was optimal play even given what he has said, I can also see that a pro-town player would approach it that way, and I don't see a massive

intrinsic

benefit for scum - it only makes sense as a scum move if he stands to gain a lot from it, in which case I would say that empking was the only one who stands to benefit, and obviously, korts would then subsequently suffer from having linked himself to emp. In brief, I reckon it was a mistake rather than scummy.

@Shanba Post 883: I wanted to address this earlier, but like has been keeping me busy. Shanba, I believe you sad in your first post about my passivity that I do it as town and scum, if this is the case wouldn't that be a null tell for me? I know I ave not been as active as some people like farside or korts, but I fell as if I am trying my best. Also, you say I am the scummiest of the three. If this is the case why not vote me as opposed to OP. You said s yourself that you were unhappy wit an OP vote. Kinda seems like you are contradicting yourself here. I know how you are and if you felt I was as scummy as you said you feel I am, you would vote me despite any wagons and try push the case. I have not seen this from you.

FoS: Shanba

Number of issues with this piece of logic.

Firstly, you are absolutely right that I said it was a bit of a nulltell for you. I can't really dispute this, as it is true, but I am, in brief, re-assessing my meta on you. Even early on, you can see that I was going back and forth on that, and I still am - and the pattern of behavior has continued and indeed become more pronounced, and, to be frank, I don't ever remember you being quite this passive.

It's not just passivity, though, it's the whole way you seem to be trying to define yourself through your positions, rather than taking positions because you believe in them - it's almost like you're playing mechanically. It's hard to describe, because it's more of a gut read than anything else, but that's how I read you.

The second part of your post is based on a lack of understanding of my position, though - you are the scummiest, but I cannot lynch you while you are the doctor. I made that perfectly clear in my posts, so any misunderstanding there is your fault. At least I can't lynch a power role today: I'm coming to the conclusion that as time goes on, each role becomes less useful, and the need to lynch scum becomes greater, so that we should ignore roles entirely at late game. Tomorrow is when I (arbitrarily) would place the switch over.

neko: yes, I did reread to clear my mind of bias, though mostly about hohum. Also, in my reread I still came to the conclusion that Korts was town, and so switched off on him.

I need to gather my thoughts again for another assault at this game.

[Oman]

You guys are right. Oman is being incredibly quiet. If you checked his Facebook Page you would notice there isn't much happening there either. Basically I just graduated from my Inital Officer Course, and that meant putting most of my spare time into packing, and all of my work time into getting the Graduation Parade right. So, yes, I've been much more silent than I should be, but I'm on leave now and will fix that immediatly.

Might I aslo say I just reread Fire Emblem Mafia and it has renewed my love for this game. Granted I was scum, but I posted a lot, we had several good jokes, and I enjoyed the people I was playing with even as they lynched me.

I need to find scum though, because this "one vote for everyone" thing sucks.

[neko2086]

SSK, Tan, that was my assumption, but I thought it might be useful to have that stated for the record.


Oman, still wondering what sparked your last vote. You also said you'd look over the OP case. And before that, you said a Empking/Korts pairing warrants a reread. So, can we get those now?


Also,

V/LA through 3/14

[Oman]

This post right here gives me a real town feel on OP. Its nothing quantifyable, it just feels town. I'm sure Shanba will back me up that this kind of gut is hard to explain.

This one here gives me the same kind of feeling but more from a knowledgable standpoint. The responding to everyone concisely and looking at SSK at what could be almost called an abjective standpoint.

On the other hand This Neko post is fairly dirty. I hate anything that starts with hammering a well known logical falacy. Its again, nothing that when I try to explain it I can swing your opinions with, but it just looks to me like "Nice try, lets lynch this fool".

Oman's being quiet is that normal for him? Last game I was in he was pretty talkative and turned out to be scum. Now I get the complete opposite. He seems like a player who is quick to turn around 180 as town or scum. However more games I've played and he was quiet he was town.

Its circumstancial thing, sorry. I'm flowing between lots of time and little time to play. There is little correlation between my talkativness and my alignment, its just been the way my last few games fell in with my timetable and my alignment.

Wait, isn't that what rereading is for? Isn't it to make sure you don't have biased opinions of people?

Not really, it just gives you a different perspective, a different bias.

Unvote

too.

By the way after quickly skimming Farside's posts I am leaning towards more her being town.

Thats where I've been standing for a while.

My theory is there is alway, always at least one scum on a townie BW

I will tolerate this being used as a starting point, but I actually lost a newbie game because someone demanded this to be true. I don't think that with the evolving nature of play we can constantly do this kind of assesment.

I guess one thing I'm getting out of this game so far is that I don't think the following people are scum:
Farside
Korts
Shanba

Simply because we seem to be looking at ineffective scum. Look at the voting record, its rediculously spread out. The bad guys should be manipulating us, leading us towards a town lynch. But the way the lynches raise and fall, I just can't see experienced scum being on this team just now.

[Empking]

Why is Korts' experienced but not Neko?

[Oman]

I'm acutally unfamiliar with Neko, never seen him/her before, and assumed as such.

[neko2086]

Oman, the OP post that looks townie to you contains this:

I doubt you even skimmed, I bet you were just saying that to make ME look bad.. FOS: neko

...

neko, your vote on me doesn't make any sense. Plus, it's all built around your own speculation that has no merit.

I'm not sure what you saw in the rest of the post that looked very pro-town to you.

Also, do you not consider appeals to emotions scummy? If not, fine, but I'd like to know why rather than you just arbitrarily discrediting my posts.

[Oman]

Its not the actually content that makes it look townie, its more of the inbetween stuff.

[orangepenguin]

Oman, the OP post that looks townie to you contains this:

I doubt you even skimmed, I bet you were just saying that to make ME look bad.. FOS: neko

...

neko, your vote on me doesn't make any sense. Plus, it's all built around your own speculation that has no merit.

I'm not sure what you saw in the rest of the post that looked very pro-town to you.

Also, do you not consider appeals to emotions scummy? If not, fine, but I'd like to know why rather than you just arbitrarily discrediting my posts.

Um, neko, you said my case on MafiaSSK came out of nowhere and said you skimmed through my posts, and didn't see anything on it. If you skimmed all my posts, you would've seen a prior vote on MSSK. Plus your vote on me is based on speculation on your part. Speculation isn't based off actual evidence, thus I think your vote on me is ridiculous, added with the fact that you basically lied and said I had no prior relationship with voting MafiaSSK - some people might've believed you and took that as fact, when it wasn't true at all. That's why I thought you were suspicious. It was only "OMGUS" in the fact that you were voting me - the reasons of which is why I thought it was suspicious and questionable, but I didn't vote you. I just gave you a fos and kept my vote on MafiaSSK, whom I believe is more likely to be scum than you, but because of what you did, I gave you an FOS, indicating to the rest of the players and yourself, that I am personally suspicious of you.

I don't know why that's even scummy. Or appealing to emotion for that matter.....some people might think saying "um" is emotional and show attitude, though, so maybe my use of words like "Um, eh, er, and ..." might throw people off. Meh.

[neko2086]

OP, I've been over this. See my post 904.

As far as the speculation, of course it's not based off evidence, but it's based off of likelihood. At any rate, that was just what prompted my vote. There have been other things I've not liked from you already mentioned.

I don't like appeals to emotion because they're a desperate move that townies really don't need to make, as they're more expendable than scum.



Oman, gut is great and all, but when you say it's not OP's content that looks townish to you, I just want to know what

do

you think of his content?

[Oman]

What do I think? I'm not putting a lot of weight on it. I don't think OP is nailing the correct stuff, and so I don't think he's really got it sorted who is and isn't scum.

[Empking]

Oman: Do you find AtE scummy?