Good Omens Mafia! Game Over.

[Peachy]

Korais666

: Also, could we get a prod for those people who have yet to post, or who haven't since the very beginning? I feel like 10-12 people are dominating this currently 28 person game.

Gaspode

: Now we have made a lot of progress, but it's basically the same ten people that have been posting all day. Where are all the lurkers? Start posting, people!

Mith

: I'll second that.

Coron

: I agree with the fact that lurkers need to post more.

Alright already! I’m posting. I’m posting.

Here are the thoughts I’ve come up with thus far…

In games I have played IRL, I have commonly seen three types of misdirection tactics used by the Mafia to erase team suspicions and prevent team lynchings.

Tactic #1:

“I will say I find Mr. A is suspicious, but I find Mr. B more suspicious. I vote Mr. B.” in order to distance himself from Mr. A as a teammate.

Tactic #2:

“I find your logic on Mr. A’s guilt weak. Here are reasons why Mr. A seems pro-town or at the very least, not worth discussing now… to prevent the town from lynching his teammate, Mr. A.

Tactic #3:

“I vote Mr. A based on weak logic.” “Oh wait. Your collective points are good townies! I will unvote Mr. A and vote for someone that you have been discussing instead.” “Look at me! I am so pro-town and definitely not affiliated in any way with Mr. A. I voted for him after all! I find it irrelevant that there was no real danger of a lynch.”

These observations when compared to our game, make me suspicious of Aelyn. And, by association, Gaspode. Although, Gaspode hasn't really mentioned Aelyn in his posts.

First Aelyn says,

I also found Gaspode's post a little suspicious, until I re-read it and re-interpreted it as saying "Mith seems to find Korais666 and Mepmuff 100% scummy, but I don't think they're that guilty quite."

Then later, Aelyn says,

I should probably warn you all that my scumdar's a little on the blink at the moment, apparently, since I don't see much suspicious with Gaspode's post.

Then, Aelyn says,

Perhaps he's cracking somewhat under the pressure?
Either way,

Vote: Gaspode.

I'm about 80% sure he's scum.

Then, more comments from Aelyn regarding Gaspode

I found the entire post slightly suspicious. I had been kinda supportive of you, as I was uncertain and wished to play conservatively.

Next, Aelyn says,

I dunno, though. Mith's arguments are pretty convincing.

Unvote: Gaspode, vote: Korais666

I could be misreading this, but I don't think so...

Vote: Aelyn

[Fuldu]

I could be misreading this, but I don't think so...
Vote: Aelyn

I won't dispute the arguments made in the above, because they're coherent, if not damning. But, even taking the premise, doesn't Aelyn's guilt under this argument rely on Gaspode's guilt? And, since there are already several votes on Gaspode (for a variety of reasons), wouldn't your vote be better placed there?

[Aelyn]

Aelyn - But your summary was "Mith reasoning v. strong. yup."

My summary?

*re-reads post*

That wasn't supposed to be a summary. That was supposed to be me referencing mith's logic to dismiss the "very tired" thing rather than repeat it all myself.

@Peachy: Presumably you're trying to say that I followed tactic 3 in an attempt to distance myself from Gaspode? Like Fuldu says, that pretty much only means that I'm scummy if Gaspode is too.

Also, you missed out a fair bit of logic and context in my posts. The first quote was an attempt at clarification; it seemed like at least one person at the time had misinterpreted the post, and I'd hate to lynch someone on such a simple misunderstanding. The second one was in the middle of a bandwagon; it was meant as a lighthearted way of saying "I don't see the point in bandwagonning just yet."

The third came after what I'd misinterpreted as an all-but-confession, with a highly scummy air ignoring that. The fourth was me elaborating first on how the post which prompted me to vote had a suspicious air even before taking into account the misread bit, and then commenting on why I hadn't voted before.

And the last was simply me concluding that Korais was more suspicious than Gaspode, and so changing my vote.

I find it very strange that you also declined to comment on my posts explaining reasoning, and cut out reasoning from previous posts - which made the fourth quote look like I'd been supportive of him given the "suspicious" post. Also, cutting out context and important events / posts in the meantime makes me look a lot more wishy-washy, which in turn makes me look a lot scummier in retrospect.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't cut out highly pertinent information in that way. People might misunderstand things I'd said based on your partial quotes.

FOS: Peachy

.

[Seol]

Er, just history. Gaspode hasn't done anything nonsuspicious, but he hasn't done anything more suspicious either.

What, so you only keep your votes on scum who are kind enough to compound their errors? That's very forgiving of you!

I've had a history of going after someone without considering their posts from a town perspective after their initial scummy posts.

But you said he hasn't done anything nonsuspicious - in fact, all he's done is clarify that his position is one of great reluctence to vote. What has he said that makes you think he isn't scummy?

And like you said, he's not anywhere near a lynch yet, and it's not like there's a consensus that he's the one to lynch. O.o So how does unvoting make me Mafia?

It doesn't "make you Mafia", but taking a vote off whilst not finding him any less suspicious makes me wonder:
a) How suspicious did you find him in the first place?
b) Might you have had a reason

other than suspicion

to place a vote on him?

I'm just saying that at the moment your actions don't make much sense. Whilst I'm not putting it forward seriously, the prospect of it being a seperator vote is both plausible and consistent with your actions - but it was more of a poke than an indictment, I'll freely admit it's fairly flimsy.

[lazarusmoth]

I find Peachy's arguments about Aelyn/Gaspode compelling.

unvote; vote: Gaspode

[Coron]

Thanks for a new lead, I will investigate and be back to you shortly.

[Coron]

I like Aelyn vote fairly well now.

unvote vote: Aelyn

[Stewie]

Ok, I know this might sound like a replay of what Fuldu said, but whatever:

1. Peachy's logic relies 100% on the fact that Gaspode is scum. If Gaspode isn't scum, then the logic stands no ground.
2. Since Aelyn is scum if and only if Gaspode is scum, then there are two good reasons to go after Gaspode rather than going after Aelyn. One being that if we lynch Aelyn and we are wrong, that won't help us determine whether Gaspode is scum or not, but lynching Gaspode might help us determine whether Aelyn is scum or not. The other one being the fact that there are already about 5 votes on Gaspode, thus starting on him will be much more effcient.
3. I think I heard IS's ghost say we should lynch Gaspode. But if you don't believe in ghosts, then hear me say something similar, yet not exactly the same: we should vote for Gaspode to find out more about him, and eventually determine if we want to lynch him or not.

[Coron]

I disagree stewie, I feel it is possible Aelyn is scum and Gaspode isn't. I hadn't really gone through Aelyn's posts, but the style reeks of scum.

[olio]

Would you all have been happier if I

didn't

vote after olio asked me?

Either response can be described as scummy behavior (Not voting even more so), making my response a very poor gauge of whether or not I'm worthy of suspicion.

You got that right. It's not the response I based my accusation on. I based it on the fact that you didn't put your money where your mouth was, not until that was noticed.

Since Aelyn is scum if and only if Gaspode is scum, then there are two good reasons to go after Gaspode rather than going after Aelyn.

So if Gaspode is innocent, Aelyn can't be scum either?

mod

, can we have a votecount?

[mepmuff]

Just a post to let you all know I'm here and I'm trying to keep up with the game. I'll try to get a complete read-through done today.

[mith]

Oh boy, so much on this page to rip into. Shame I don't have time right now. You can expect a post from me this evening.

[mepmuff]

Ok, I did a full read-through, although not as in-depth as I would have liked. About Korais and Gaspode I'm actually more worried about the reactions to those issues than the issues themselves. Furthermore I noticed roland's posts, talk about minimal.

makes mental note to reread this thread some more this week

[Fuldu]

So if Gaspode is innocent, Aelyn can't be scum either?

Several people have made comments similar to this one, so I'll expound a bit. We have two sets of arguments against Aelyn, Peachy's and Coron's.

Peachy's arguments rely on the notion that Gaspode is scum, so if that's what you're basing a vote on, it makes better sense to vote for Gaspode than for Aelyn. If Gaspode isn't scum, then Peachy's arguments don't point to scumminess on Aelyn's part, just (arguably) poor play.

Coron, on the other hand, is voting Aelyn because his "style reeks of scum." This, of course, has nothing to do with Gaspode. As such, it's perfectly reasonable for him to prefer lynching Aelyn to Gaspode. However, if he wants anyone to follow his lead, he's probably going to have to point to specific examples, rather than simply positing the existence of scummy behavior.

I, myself, am voting Gaspode based on the content of his own posts and, if he turns out to be scum, will then reconsider the Aelyn issue. As I said before, Peachy's arguments seem to me reasonable, but hardly damning.

[JDTAY]

Okay, over-analyzing everything in an (rather successful) attempt to confuse me and all the other townies is an obvious mafia tactic.

FOS: mith, Gaspode, korais666, Aelyn, olio, Electra, Stewie, Gencide Heart, Peachy, Seol, and last but not least, Fuldu

for making posts that were too long and wordy for me to understand.

And oh yeah,

unvote lazurus, vote mith

, 'cause he's the most confusing.

[Coron]

My evidence is go to bottom of page, look for all posts by: Aleyn, see how scummy the way the posts are worded, size, organization etc. Then I say hey look this ranks way higher than anyone else *place vote*

[Dragon Slayer]

Vote Count

Gaspode 6

(DP, Fuldu, Lazarusmoth, Rolandofthewhite, Seol, Stewie)
Korais 3 (Aelyn, Darklight, mith)
Aelyn 2 (Coron, Peachy)
Stewie 2 (Olio, Subtletactix)
Electra 1 (Korais 666)
Genocide Heart 1 (Peacebringer)
mepmuff 1 (Genocide Heart)
mith 1 (JDtay)
Rolandofthewhite 1 (Locus Cosecant)
Sinister Overlord 1 (KingEnigma)

15 to lynch.

Please alert me of any errors immediately.


-DS

[Fuldu]

My evidence is go to bottom of page, look for all posts by: Aleyn, see how scummy the way the posts are worded, size, organization etc. Then I say hey look this ranks way higher than anyone else *place vote*

Gee thanks. I was figuring you did it with the help of a ouija board. It's good to know that you read their posts in order to determine whether a person is scummy.

My point, and I'll say it again (and not just for Coron), is that you're going to have to explain that to the rest of us if you want us to follow you. You found posts that are worded in a scummy way? Quote them and state why. That's an argument I can examine for myself and come to a conclusion regarding. Otherwise, for all I know you find posts that are worded ungrammatically to be scummy and that's what this decision is based upon. If it's just a gut feeling or a hunch, say so. Sometimes I can get behind that, but if I think there's analysis involved, I'd rather know what it is, and if you don't say otherwise, I'm going to assume there's analysis.

Oh, and for JDTAY:

Urg! Kill Gaspode! Gaspode bad!

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

vote gaspode

17 to lynch? we'll be here forever.

[Coron]

Perhaps I could go through as say which words exactly set it off, but as I'm going over I'm not like specifically analizing looking for specific words, so you could say it is gut.

[Stewie]

And, at this point, gut is the best you can come up with?

[Coron]

I trust my gut more than the crap you guys come up with. Look through the posts by aelyn like I did, look at how they sound and agree with me.

[Fuldu]

Look through the posts by aelyn like I did, look at how they sound and agree with me.

I did and I don't. Give me a well-reasoned argument over a gut feeling any day. For one thing, everybody thinks their intuition is so good, when, in fact, most people's isn't. With an argument, at least I can determine what does and doesn't make sense. With gut feeling it's just a bunch of people shooting in the dark. As far as I'm concerned, if you can't tell me why you think someone's suspicious, then even if you're right it's just that you got lucky, not that you have finely honed instincts.

[olio]

17 to lynch? we'll be here forever.

What else did you expect from a game with 34 players to start with? It'll take longer, but that's no reason to stop thinking.

[Electra]

[What, so you only keep your votes on scum who are kind enough to compound their errors? That's very forgiving of you!

I would keep my vote on Gaspode if he had actually made an error and not just made a few posts that seemed Mafia-flavoured.

But you said he hasn't done anything nonsuspicious - in fact, all he's done is clarify that his position is one of great reluctence to vote. What has he said that makes you think he isn't scummy?

I don't think he's not scum. I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt since he could be making those posts if he were town and for a while, I didn't give people the benefit of the doubt.

It doesn't "make you Mafia", but taking a vote off whilst not finding him any less suspicious makes me wonder:
a) How suspicious did you find him in the first place?
b) Might you have had a reason

other than suspicion

to place a vote on him?

I'm just saying that at the moment your actions don't make much sense. Whilst I'm not putting it forward seriously, the prospect of it being a seperator vote is both plausible and consistent with your actions - but it was more of a poke than an indictment, I'll freely admit it's fairly flimsy.

I found him suspicious enough to vote him. I don't know what the other people feel exactly about him, but the way that he posted just seemed very reluctant to commit to anything and Mafia-like. But it's not like there was anything concrete against him, just a feeling. After a few more of his posts, I felt that it was possible that he was just a townie speaking in that manner, and since my vote wasn't doing anything anyway, I removed it. Make sense?

From "the Mafia are so easy to spot" to "fairly flimsy"?