Mini 738: The Town of Merrin - Game Over

[Zilla]

Well, I'd say if he's really a cop, he's at least useful as a lightning rod to direct mafia wrath away from other town. It's true he'd create WIFOM, but as long as he's not paranoid or insane or anything, we could at least try to get information out of him. Even if he turns out to be scum, it's possible his claims will give us information as well (though that information is also subject to WIFOM).

[Beyond_Birthday]

I was very busy and didn't care about this game too much. Yes, it is a blunder and NOW I would agree that your assesment can correctly call me scummy. Not because I'm scum, as I'm not, but because my play WAS scummy, just you picked out the wrong reasons.

Now, as this post should imply:
I am in no way saying nor can I even begin to suggest that Goat's case is invalid. His case is entirely valid and well reasoned (though assuming the wrong things, he reaches the right conclusions and at least considers the right reasons.)

Okay, so it's entirely valid (but parenthetically, it assumes the wrong things). The previous part of that post is all about what Goat "missed"

The following is snipped at obvious points. Bold is my responses.
[quote=""Goat"]So, to clarify my points on BB:

Lack of scumhunting.

<---And you think I voted Panzer with an actual reason because...?

Lack of solid stances:

<--Meh, not really. I have stances but for a good majority, they are not too well defined yet. I feel that the motives behind people's posts is obscured, but this will become apparent once I have better reads.

Suspicious disengage from the Panzer wagon:

*Shrugs* I can't really say it wasn't suspicious. Convenient, I would agree with convenient. But convenient isn't necessarily scummy/suspicious. Still, I can definitely say that I think your town.

These are quite murky and echo the opinion that Goat has the right idea to call them scummy, but that his arguments aren't actually valid. So you've said you think Goat's case is valid explicitly, but inherently, you've pointed out where you think it's invalid.[/quote]

I now like this person slightly for accurately reading my post.
Also, her last post makes sense and her ability to play with a level head, granted she is without pressure, reduces the odds she is scum. Furthermore, qwints is scummy. We should lynch him. Panzer doesn't strike me as cop, sorry to disagree. Gieff's statement is true, but wasn't a good idea to explain to town/scum. Also, Zilla's last post also isn't true sense Mafia may keep the cop alive and determine its threat level versus increased suspicion on the STILL living cop. Hm... Not liking that much.

In any case, town should move forward while we have time to probe again in case qwints' claim causes us to change directions.

[Zilla]

... Where's the Qwints vote though? You're saying things like "We should lynch him," but instead you're still voting me.

[PJ.]

I think I'm on qwints and Yes I'm calm. Why wouldn't I be calm when I know if I get lynched that it will be exetremly helpful because ALL 3 scum would have to be on my wagon. GIEFF can bring up whatever BS reason he wants to say that I'm not cop but I'm the one with the Role PM saying Cop. And at this point I've given my top three. I'm waiting for you guys to decide which of Qwints Zilla BB or GIEFF you're gonna lynch..If It's anyone else then I'll agrue.

[mykonian]

I think, even with this extended deadline, it would be right for some people to take action. I don't understand how GIEFF and Goat are suspicious of an un-cc'ed cop. If it stays that way, panzer is OR the cop, OR super lucky mafia: I don't think the last is likely to happen, so I don't understand why two persons I thought most likely town even spend energy in that direction...

[Goatrevolt]

Panzer wouldn't be super lucky as mafia to claim cop and not get countered. Very few games I've played on this site have had a cop. Only 1 out of 10, I think. There was another game where a guy I was hounding as scum claimed cop and I let him get away with it. So maybe I'm just jaded to it, but I don't think a lack of a counterclaim means that Panzer is in the clear.

[mykonian]

but can we please wait with lynching till this night is over?

I see absolutely no advantage in lynching a claimed Pr day one, and I don't understand why you are even thinking about it...

[Goatrevolt]

Vote Qwints

I'm fine with waiting a day to decide on Panzer. I want to note, though, that if I think someone is scum I'm going to want to lynch them regardless of them claiming a power role. If claiming a power role let you off the hook this easy, then all scum would claim power roles.

[mykonian]

I'm fine with waiting a day to decide on Panzer. I want to note, though, that if I think someone is scum I'm going to want to lynch them regardless of them claiming a power role. If claiming a power role let you off the hook this easy, then all scum would claim power roles.

They kind of do, don't they? I have seen little vanilla claims this way. Simply because it is usually not a great town play to lynch a Pr day 1, as you don't have enough information then.

[militant]

I have just been prodded. I am lost again. I would prefer to be replaced. I am dragging you guys down because this game is going to quick, especially for the schedule I have. I apologize to all the players and the mod especially.

[GIEFF]

Before you get replaced, can you tell us if you counter Panzer's cop claim?

[GIEFF]

Here is my unofficial vote-count. Let me know if I made a mistake.

qwints (5): mykonian, Panzer, GIEFF, Zilla, Goatrevolt
Panzer (1): militant
Zilla (1): Beyond_Birthday
Not voting (5): ting =), Sensfan, springlullaby, qwints, Dourgrim


mykonian has since switched to BB, but did not unvote first, so his vote is still on qwints.


And here is the latest pseudo-vote tally. I added Zilla to the OK-with-lynching-qwints list; are their any other updates?

9 Panzer (mykonian, zilla, GIEFF, militant, SL, qwints, Dour, ting, goat)
8 BB (mykonian, GIEFF, militant, goat, Panzer, SL, qwints, Dour)
6 zilla (GIEFF, militant, panzer, bb, qwints, Dour)
6 Qwints (mykonian, goat, Panzer, bb, GIEFF, Zilla)
4 GIEFF (Panzer, bb, Dour, ting)
2 mykonian (zilla, GIEFF)
1 Goat (zilla)
1 Springlullaby (ting)

[mykonian]

Yes, I would like to get my pseudo of Panzer, I don't believe in his lynch.

and I thought I voted BB. Qwints is a lurker in my eyes that just should take a look at militant...

If he doesn't want that, see my statements about lynching lurkers, esspecially when there is some doubt about their allignment.

[GIEFF]

You never unvoted qwints, mykonian, so your vote is technically still on him.

I'll remove Panzer from the pseudo-voting list completely - we won't lynch him today, so the next step is to find the next person, and quickly.

8 BB (mykonian, GIEFF, militant, goat, Panzer, SL, qwints, Dour)
6 zilla (GIEFF, militant, panzer, bb, qwints, Dour)
6 Qwints (mykonian, goat, Panzer, bb, GIEFF, Zilla)
4 GIEFF (Panzer, bb, Dour, ting)
2 mykonian (zilla, GIEFF)
1 Goat (zilla)
1 Springlullaby (ting)

I would prefer a qwints lynch to a BB lynch, and qwints has 3 more votes than BB (assuming mykonian switches his vote), but BB has 2 more pseudo-votes. As I've said before, SL, militant, and Dour are the three OK with BB but not OK with mykonian; I've asked them multiple times if they are OK with a qwints lynch and they haven't responded.

Is anybody who is still reading the thread against a qwints claim or lynch?

[SensFan]

I haven't read enough to make a decent opinion on Qwints, unfortunately.

[mykonian]

unvote

, just for the show, I prefer BB, but qwints was third in my top three.

I thought we should go with the pseudovotes, as they show the majority of us was in favor of a BB lynch: but I'm afraid qwints is just the easy target just before the lynch, and I don't know if I should be that happy with it. On the other hand, a lurker lynch is better then a random lynch.

[mykonian]

I haven't read enough to make a decent opinion on Qwints, unfortunately.

That has probably little to do with you, and a lot with qwints

[militant]

Before you get replaced, can you tell us if you counter Panzer's cop claim?

I can tell you. I do not counter his claim.

[kloud1516]

Vote Count XIV

qwints

(4): Panzerjager, GIEFF, Zilla, Goatrevolt

Panzerjager

(1):militant

Zilla

(1): Beyond_Birthday

Not Voting:

ting=), SensFan, springlullaby, qwints, Dourgrim, mykonian

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

Please notify me if there is a discrepancy in the list above

[kloud1516]

I have just been prodded. I am lost again. I would prefer to be replaced. I am dragging you guys down because this game is going to quick, especially for the schedule I have. I apologize to all the players and the mod especially.

I understand completely. I will begin looking for a replacement.

[Zilla]

Yes, I would like to get my pseudo of Panzer, I don't believe in his lynch.

and I thought I voted BB. Qwints is a lurker in my eyes that just should take a look at militant...

If he doesn't want that, see my statements about lynching lurkers, esspecially when there is some doubt about their allignment.

You mean when you wanted to lynch SpringLulliby when we had no idea about her alignment?

HUGE FOS: Mykonian

[mykonian]

Yes, I would like to get my pseudo of Panzer, I don't believe in his lynch.

and I thought I voted BB. Qwints is a lurker in my eyes that just should take a look at militant...

If he doesn't want that, see my statements about lynching lurkers, esspecially when there is some doubt about their allignment.

You mean when you wanted to lynch SpringLulliby when we had no idea about her alignment?

HUGE FOS: Mykonian

No, when discussion was stalling, I told my stance on lynching lurkers, how I got to that stance, and why it can be a good thing to lynch a lurker with less evidence. Do you want the reasoning again, or do you think you can find it.

In anyway, it mostly applies on qwints too.

[qwints]

I'm against a qwints claim and/or lynch.

I believe this game is a perfect case study for how too long day 1s can be anti-town.

[Beyond_Birthday]

... Where's the Qwints vote though? You're saying things like "We should lynch him," but instead you're still voting me.

My bad:

Vote Qwints

I'd like some sort of defense...yah?

[qwints]

I'm playing without a great deal of consideration as to what has happened - hence the appearance of opportunism. All I can say is that I've reacted to what I've seen.