Mini 739 ~ Mafia Jailbreak, Game Over

[popsofctown]

Vote: Spyrex

Guys, please, i'm seriously not town. Ask me anything you want, tell me what you want me to do to show you. I'll demonstrate anyway i can.

[popsofctown]

Wow. EBWOP: "seriously not scum". I was thinking am town, and not scum. I can't say i wouldn't call that a freudian slip if i wasn't in someone else's shoes though... it's not.

Hm... what can failpops do to make his flip even more surprising to everyone...

[popsofctown]

it's 10:55 my time. I woke up at six this morning. Freudian slips dont actually follow that format anyway. People tend to replace the false alignment word with their actual alignment word. Here, i've accidentally replaced a word that's not my alignment with my alignment, because i'm tired, and forgot the sentence had a negation in it.

Freudian slips tend to follow the format more like "Of course i'm going to claim scum, why are you asking people if they're scum point blank? oops..."

[popsofctown]

............ Vi, can i write a death scene, so i can feel i did

something

positive in this game? If we lose i'm gonna feel kind of bad...

Sorry, the death scene I have in mind is much cooler. ~Vi

[Jahudo]

LOL at pops! When I stop laughing I'm going to mention you're not lynched yet but that even if you had said "Guys please, I'm seriously not scum" I would say "That doesn't mean anything to me because it has the burden of proof, also why Spyrex over Huntress now?"

I can't shake the feeling that with this day going the way it is the last thing a scum would do would be replace out (consider how many people we have responding to prods saying they'll post and not). So, actually admitting and getting replaced (even though I hate replacements) does give some pro-town vibes to me.

I'm not sure what to think of it either. I feel that he is overextended in his games; looking at his post history I see he's modding 4 games and playing in at least 2 games. I wouldn't put it past him to do the whole "respond to prods saying he'll post and not" thing if he was scum, but that doesn't mean he played pro-town.

[SpyreX]

Thats beautiful.

Jah:

I'm not saying his PLAY was A+ pro-town. I am saying getting replaced versus doing what he could have done if sucm, is.

[popsofctown]

You would cry too, if it happened to you.....

For some reason that song seems relevant.

[CF Riot]

Wow. Just wow. Don't cry, I love you Pops. I really do. You just make this game so fun.

I think replacing out of a game is a null tell. I think flaking out of a game is null, I think ignoring prods is null. I think lurking is a scum tell, because it

does

benefit scum, but replacing just seems to affect everyone. I've seen cops asked to be replaced and scum flake so I don't think that holds any weight with me.

I wish someone not voting Pops, besides Pops himself, would post. 4 days till deadline ladies and gents. All you people preaching this, "I'll get to you later," stuff are eventually going to run out of "later".

Is it time for a Pops claim?

[popsofctown]

I claim Alexander.

"I went to sleep with gum in my mouth and now there's gum in my hair and when I got out of bed this morning I tripped on the skateboard and by mistake I dropped my sweater in the sink while the water was running and I could tell it was going to be a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day."
-

Alexander and the terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day.

My RL name is Alexander, i don't drop that often.

[iamausername]

"We lynched a townie yesterday, therefore lynching is a bad idea. Everyone should vote No Lynch."

Help me out, someone, which logical fallacy is pops employing here?

If anything, you're stretching the meaning of his post. Nowhere is he advocating No Lynch, he is merely advocating that tunnelling on a single player for the entire day is a bad idea due to the fact that if he's town it's easily giving scum a free pass.

Yeah, that wasn't meant to be an accurate paraphrase of his post (so I'm really not sure what compelled me to put quotation marks around it). I was extending his reasoning to a logical, though ridiculous, conclusion in order to point out its absurdity. AKA reductio ad absurdum.

OH MY GOSH IDIOTS. Do your silly pairs AFTER i flip.

But if you flipped town, they'd have no reason to be pairing people with you. Are you claiming scum, pops?

---

I've reread Rishi in isolation. Here are some reasons why he is scum:

Post #85: Uses the word 'interesting'. Yes, I am saying that is a scumtell. When you say "X is interesting" in a game of Mafia, what you are saying is "X is something that I could be taking a stance on". By doing that, you invite others to take a stance on that issue by drawing their attention to it, while carefully avoiding actually taking one yourself.

Post #302: There's another 'interesting'. And he's pretty much throwing wild suspicion around indiscriminately. "SpyreX called these three people scum, these two other people responded. THERE'S GOTTA BE SOME SCUM IN THERE SOMEWHERE!" The only purpose I can think of for doing that is so he can come back to it later if he feels like wagoning one of the five or so players that are supposedly implicated here as 'proof' that he was supicious of them all along.

Post #314: As I said at the time, Rhinox's comment was so obviously not a slip when read in context that Rishi calling it out as one looks suspicious. I think it indicates that he wasn't paying real attention to Rhinox's post, and was just looking for things that he could use to cast suspicion on him.

Post #487: Rishi's last post in D1. This post really grated on me at the time. Stating "I am willing to switch my vote to avoid a No Lynch" is utterly pointless. Nobody is ever going to say they're NOT willing to avoid a No Lynch. This is basically the same as saying "Hey everybody, I'm town."

More importantly, Rishi's vote was on RedCoyote at the time. There was, if you'll recall, pretty equal support for both Rhinox and pops as the lynch towards the end of the day, so it might actually have been useful to state which of the two he was willing to switch to. But that would require him to take an actual position, which Rishi apparently has some kind of phobia about.
Who does Rishi suspect? On Day One, it was RedCoyote, because he talked too much about theory, and not enough about finding scum. And that's the only reason he ever gave for finding anyone suspicious throughout the entire day.

Reading his Day One posts in isolation, I don't get even the vaguest hint that Rishi is interested in figuring out anyone's alignment. I would seriously reccomend that everybody else do this, because that's the most compelling reason why I think he's scum, and it's not something I can show in a single quote.

Post #590: So, first of all: "The question was asked much earlier, CF, whether or not I think pops is scum. Well, I thought it was a good possibility at the time, but I'm less sure now." When was the "much earlier" question asked? I haven't been able to find it.

Secondly, the end of this one is horrible. Here's the first time he's listed any suspects besides RedCoyote, and he does so without any real case, and says he's "waiting for them to post". Rishi, remember when you said this:

Other than that one post that I voted for RC, you still haven't given any reasons for thinking I'm scum. It's like you think if you repeat that I'm scum enough that people will believe it. This is actually a fun experiment you can try in any game. You keep listing a particular player on your "scumlist" and keeping saying "This player bothers me but I'm not sure why." The player doesn't have anything concrete to defend himself against, so can't really respond to the accusations. Soon other people put the player on their scumlist and start scrutinizing the player's posts and voila! That player is lynched.

So, is this what you're doing to Huntress/OGML? Saying that they're suspicious, and that you're 'waiting for them to post' without giving them any case to post about?

Unvote, Vote: Rishi

I wish I'd found the time to do this sooner, because a lynch on Rishi at this point is going to have to be slightly rushed, but seriously he is so obvscum.

FAKE EDIT:

I wish someone not voting Pops, besides Pops himself, would post. 4 days till deadline ladies and gents. All you people preaching this, "I'll get to you later," stuff are eventually going to run out of "later".

I'm not voting pops any more. Do I count?

[SpyreX]

... I need to read this when I am awake, but I will say this: POST MORE IN THIS GAME ESPECIALLY OF THIS MAGNITUDE GOD.

<3

I still want pops lynched though. I'll have to read and really weigh on that.

[Moriarty147]

Vote pops, he's seriously not town

Post #85: Uses the word 'interesting'. Yes, I am saying that is a scumtell. When you say "X is interesting" in a game of Mafia, what you are saying is "X is something that I could be taking a stance on". By doing that, you invite others to take a stance on that issue by drawing their attention to it, while carefully avoiding actually taking one yourself.

I disagree on that stance. It is possible that you notice something extremely out of the ordinary in a given mafia game, but can't tell for sure if it is a tell in any way. Therefore calling something interesting is a decent way to bring such a thing to other people's attention and see if someone else can extrapolate any alignment information from it.

That particular post was a good example. Said incident was strange, but by no means a scumtell.

That being said, #487 disturbs me. As did the lack of content in general. The case in #200 seemed largely based around RC being

unhelpful

, not

overtly scummy

. Since then, he really has not bothered too much to attempt to figure out anyone else's alignment in D1.

To be quite honest, I'd much prefer a Rishi lynch today. Mainly, pops's AtE's have been getting to me to such a degree and I'm not entirely sure if scum would be made of so much fail today.

Moreover, while they both haven't been that great at scumhunting, at least pops has made a good attempt at it (even if I don't see half of his cases...why would checking someone's meta be a towntell? when did SpyreX actually misread something? when did I arrive at "therefore obvscum" without sufficient justification?) he's at least making a heartfelt attempt at it. Rishi is essentially made of "Busy. Will post later. I promise." which to me has a feel of classical lurkscum tactics. When he does post, they usually lack useful content and more importantly seem to be very waffly when it comes to actual stances on players. For all he has against him, pops at least is

active

.

Therefore,

##Vote: Rishi

.

In addition, I'd finally like that post from Huntress already.

[Moriarty147]

EBWOP: "such a degree" should be "some degree"

[bionicchop2]

I have said before that Rishi was high on my suspect list. My only issue here is the knowledge Rishi did not kill anybody last night - which can be said for my top 3 remaining suspects.

I would vote Rishi before Pops. I would also consider Huntress at this point. I had her low on my suspect list yesterday, but I was mostly blinded by the fact I thought RC was scum and she was saying he was scum.

[popsofctown]

OH MY GOSH IDIOTS. Do your silly pairs AFTER i flip.

But if you flipped town, they'd have no reason to be pairing people with you. Are you claiming scum, pops?

That's post 650. Get it right!

Sincere answer, i was going to type out "since that means you won't be doing those pairs at all", but amidst concern i was repeating that i'm town too much in this thread, i decided to leave that assumed.

I'm going to read Rishi in isolation before i come back and vote, but i've already expressed suspicion of him and would definitely pick him in a me-or-him situation.

[popsofctown]

unvote, vote Rishi

In isolation, he looks quite a bit like he's trying to play ref, i never go for that.

[CF Riot]

Wow Pops, you reread Rishi in 10 minutes? "Playing ref" pushed him above SpyreX (never explained this vote) and Huntress?

IAUN makes a good case. I'll need to look at the posts myself and I'd like to hear Rishi's response. Rishi's lack of content seemed suspect D1, but failing to send the mod a PM, while not really a

town

tell, does support his lack of activity. I also thought his one big post today was townish.

On top of this, Moriarty's vote seems a little out of place. He(she?) gives reasons in that very post why Pops is scummy and he's been saying he's suspicious of Pops all day without committing to a vote. After 1 person makes a case on Rishi, he votes.

The person who actually

made

the case and the case itself look legit, but this wagon is setting off all kinds of alarms for me.

[popsofctown]

HE's over Huntress because he's a alternative lynch i can actually get to happen. Huntress is still worse. I'm not really sure about Spyrex. That very last vote was joke/policy/ugh vote because i said i was voting the next person to speculate on pairs based of me being scum. Which is a false premise and waste of time.

[Moriarty147]

HE's over Huntress because he's a alternative lynch i can actually get to happen. Huntress is still worse. I'm not really sure about Spyrex. That very last vote was joke/policy/ugh vote because i said i was voting the next person to speculate on pairs based of me being scum. Which is a false premise and waste of time.

um, wow, pops...just, wow.

So first you claim you did a reread of Rishi in 10 minutes, and this was enough for you to vote and bandwagon him?

Then you claim you vote him simply because he's not you and you can potentially make the lynch go through?

Then you claim a vote of yours was a joke vote? Near the deadline on day 2?

Fine, then.

##Unvote, ##Vote: pops

How about actually presenting a case on Rishi? You claim I'm me-too-ish (you still haven't answered the questions I asked you in my post, FWIW), but you provided virtually no reasoning beyond "Rishi was playing ref last night" for your latest vote? There's still enough time before deadline to, like, actually present a proper case, if you'd bother to spend more than 10 minutes on it (and given how much you post in this thread, I assume you have enough free time to actually give Rishi's single page of posts a proper read-through.)

@Riot: I've been increasingly wary of pops D2 because while he's been fairly scummy, lately a combination of his AtEs and just being so fail in general have led me to apply the Too Scummy To Be Scum reasoning to pops (part of it was due to a similar situation happening D1 to Rhinox. I'm not so sure if pops was simply acting similarly to him in the sense of being a fail townie, or what. These latest posts, however, are inexcuseable)

[Trumpet of Doom]

Modkill: Vi

...wait a minute... man, I totally would have faked that.

I don't think that actually did anything. Would you like for me to show you how it's done?~ ~Vi

Working on reread (can you tell what part I've gotten to?), but I figured I probably ought to respond to this from the previous page:

Unless OGML saw pops going up the rope and gave up because he thought it was unwinnable.

I have no idea why he'd think this. As far as I know, we're at 7:3, so irrespective of our respective alignments, this game could go either way. And I'm sure he's a good enough player that if we're scum with Pops, he would have felt he could handle it.

Actually, I'm heading out on V/LA tomorrow and will not be back before deadline. Therefore:

Mod: if deadline arrives and someone is at L-1, place my vote on that person.

Yes, I realize this is setting myself up to take the fall if my vote's the hammer, but I think we're still at that point where no lynch is bad, and I'll do what I can to avoid that. I'll see if I can contribute more once I've returned from V/LA.

[popsofctown]

Moriarty's waffling makes me think rishi is scum.


I'd love for you to show how i fulfill a town win condition by selecting myself for a lynch instead of Rishi. Deadline is in four days.

I didn't read all of Rishi in 10 minutes, i read enough. I already adressed my concerns about Rishi when i i discussed every player about a page ago, Rishi had one of the longest sections.

[Vi]

Vote Count:

popsofctown (L-2) ~ SpyreX, CF Riot,

iamausername,

Jahudo, Moriarty147

Rishi (L-4) ~ iamausername,

Moriarty147,

popsofctown
SpyreX (L-5) ~ Huntress,

popsofctown

Jahudo (L-5) ~ bionicchop2

Minimum (L-6)

Not Voting:

Moriarty147,

Trumpet of Doom, Rishi,

popsofctown

[size=0]bionicchop2 - 0 | Huntress - 1 PROD1 4 | iamausername - 0 PROD1 11 PROD2 4 | Jahudo - 0 | CF Riot - 0 | Moriarty147 - 0 PROD1 15 PROD2 2 | Trumpet of Doom - 0 | popsofctown - 0 | Rishi - 4 PROD1 15 | SpyreX - 0[/size]

Current and Final Deadline: Thursday, March 19 2009

(Only got 3 days left)

-----

Prodding Rishi for the second time today.

Mod: if deadline arrives and someone is at L-1, place my vote on that person.

I do not wish to set a precedent for voting by proxy in this game. I will consider adding provisions for this in future games; however, I would rather finish this game by the rules. Apologies.

[Rishi]

Hey, folks, got my prod. I don't have a lot to say about the case against me. IAUN's main point is that I don't take a strong stance on Day 1. This is pretty typical of my Day 1 play in just about every game that I play. In fact, it's a bit of a null-tell for me. I'm usually more aggressive on Day 2 and beyond, but haven't had a lot of time to play so far.

Rishi is essentially made of "Busy. Will post later. I promise." which to me has a feel of classical lurkscum tactics.

Okay. This drives me absolutely bonkers. Do you see me posting a lot in other games? What gives you the impression that I am intentionally avoiding posting rather than actually busy? And as I've pointed out before, you're not particularly active either, and yet you keep bringing up this argument.

Moriarty's waffling makes me think rishi is scum.

Huh? In any case, pops goes from pretty strongly believing that I'm town, to neutral, to scum in the span of a couple pages. In fact, in that period where he was being nice to me, I was suspecting him of buddying. I know that I believed that pops was town before, but he seems to be on tilt. Plus, the "claiming Alexander" business doesn't help him.

I would throw a vote on Trumpet of Doom or Huntress if I thought it would do any good at this point. My main point is that I can't get a read on them, which is why I've been waiting for them to post.

Vote: popsofctown

[Jahudo]

claim time pops

[popsofctown]

I'm vanilla