Mini 763 - Carnival Mafia - Game Over

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Ok, let's get this started. Another list full of unknown players to me...

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Vote: VP

Because I'm sure he'd do it.

[Shinnen_no_Me]

How could you not like Konata!!!??? And what's worst, Konata in santa suit! That's outrageous!!!!!!!

[Shinnen_no_Me]

I agree with what Kairyuu said about disliking random vote stages. I dislike them as well, they usually cause stagnation, and while some may say they can do well to find out about certain characteristics of players, I think the same can be said if one just takes it the same and starts questioning the other players.

Though Kairyuu, why would you say you dislike long random phases when just a few posts earlier, you went with the same kind of random votes you dislike?

Well, what do you suggest then to start moving the game instead of the rvs?

[Shinnen_no_Me]

I don't like DDD's attitude at all. He's like "I'm the most experienced player here thus my references are valid and the others are not". Arrogant and with a policy lynch, another two things I don't like. Just because Datadanne has been a bad player in other games doesn't mean he will be in this one. Get reasons in this game to vote for him. Though it's true that so far Datadanne is drawing attention to himself, DDD's reasons to vote for him (which are based in pure meta) just don't convince me.

Be clear that I'm not defending Dd, I'm just pointing out DDD's attitude and ingame baseless reasons to vote for him.

Unvote, Vote: DDD

Sorry, but I really don't like the way your approaching to this game. You are just supporting a lynch on Dd for the sake of a random lynch, just because of the meta. That is a really scum thing to do, you know? You are just encoring a bandwagon on a random player, and last time I checked, that was scum.

[Shinnen_no_Me]

DDD, how if we follow your advice, but instead of a "predetermined" DD lynch, we lynch you instead? You wouldn't like it, isn't it?

You are just pushing a lynching just for the sake of lynching someone, without arguments (other than meta) of any sort. That, my friend, is clearly scum. DD may not be helping the town, but at least he's not screaming "I'm mafia" like you are.

[Shinnen_no_Me]

I'm starting to believe that DD lynch isn't as bad as I thought...

Any roads, ask for replacement, don't ruin the game.

It's true that a DDD's lynch is not worth in this moment, however, what I wanted with my vote wasn't a quicklynch but a good pressure on him for his unique strategy (which I still think it's very anti-town).

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Unvote: Chief
Vote: DDD

After reading over the pages of discussion (Which I haven't been able to participate in, sorry, school has been giving me hell in the past 2 weeks), my current vote stands as such for now.

Care to elaborate a reason behind your vote? It seems as if you just were jumping on a wagon.

[Shinnen_no_Me]

To answer questions on my vision on double posting: I don’t think double posting on its own is a scumtell. I do think however that scum is more likely to double post than town. Scum can only pretend to be town, so they think by themselves ‘am I acting like a townie?’, which makes them go back to their posts and possibly adjust themselves.

I disagree strongly with this.

Also, when the multiple posts are kind of erratic and in different directions, it might point to scum who’s just trying to point out as much as possible so something sticks.

A stronger argument but I'm still skeptical of it having much/any worth.

L-1 is not premature. Also, early wagons to claims rarely happen anymore, and of the older games where I've seen them they tend to work well to increase the likelihood of D1 scumlynch. Besides, current meta states that L-1 = claim time. I'll not apologize for calling for it.

It was clear there was zero legitimate reason for lynching him at that point in time, and if there was zero legitimate reason for lynching him, then there was zero legitimate reason for asking him to claim.

For your question about my previous defense (if you'd like to call it that) of Datadanne, I was initially just putting my two cents in (which included that I didn't think Datadanne was particularly scummy) and that sparked a discussion over my intentions, where I defended my beliefs. In the post that you quoted, I meant for the reader to infer that Datadanne's actions and posts weren't scummy standing on their own, but with DDD's urging us to drop him as a topic of discussion rather entirely, made them look scummier in the light of a possible partnership.

Ok.

My take on VP's possible slip is this- It's suspicious to a degree, but nothing that's getting my alarm bells going. I wouldn't have even noticed it if it hadn't been pointed out. But maybe that's just me being unobservant.

What slip?

My current take on Datadanne- Wow. Just wow. Useless. Please post something, like, meaningful. Or ask for a replacement. Nao. Lol.

Agreed 110%

This is a bit of outguessing the mod, but I think you may have just slipped up big time.

Unvote
Vote: Nocmen

You talk all your post about Weyouns, Kairyuu and Chief, and you end up voting for Nocmen? And what's more, without reasons? I find this odd.

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Ok.

Shinnen, do you notice any inconsistences between the last paragraph of post 108 and your own role pm?

Well, in my role PM I'm said that my victory condition is to kill all puppeteers. Not a word about jokers. So, if I see any inconsistency, is that a townie (albeit all townies received a similar PM) shouldn't be aware of a joker threat (or shouldn't consider it).

[Shinnen_no_Me]

I also find Chief more scummier than Nocmen. It's like if he was trying hard to merge as a townie.

Vote: Chief

[Shinnen_no_Me]

My, I think I forgot to unvote. Sorry mod.

Unvote, vote:Chief

[Shinnen_no_Me]

It's like if he was trying hard to merge as a townie.

Is that sentence about me? Or Nocmen?

About you.

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Hmmm... Weyouns' case just don't seem quite appealing to me. I mean, it's possible he slipped the smiley face, hence thinking that Shanba was really for a random lynch. However, I'm suspicious about Nocmen and his slip with his goal. But, didn't the mod told us the last time to stop making cases based on the PM roles? What would be different this time? Also, VP has a point there. When I read Nocmen, there are times when I get good pro-town vibes from him. However, there are other times when I smell something fishy... So, I can't really make a stance just yet based on what we have. Though, IGMEOY.

[Shinnen_no_Me]

@Shinnen: Information that is already out is already out. Ignoring it now would not be playing to win. We were barred from discussing win cons further, but building cases out of previously revealed information is acceptable (I would assume).

You're totally right, and I agree with you. However, I fear that we might unleash the wrath of the mod again.

The thing that really shocked me, Shinnen, is that he

did

see the smiley... and didn't unvote! I just can't fathom...

You're also right on this. He did admit to had seen the smiley, yet he didn't unvote. Weyouns, why didn't you? I mean, were you happy with your vote, even after you saw it?

Also, DDD, any reasons you want Nocmen lynched so badly? It seems that you like to push cases against other persons just because you want it. It was the same on D1. Really, Nocmen's slip isn't as bad compared to your eagerness to lynch.

Vote: DDD

Nocmen's slip is enough to make me think he's hiding something (probably he's scum). However, DDD's eagerness to lynch is even more suspicious. He has cast three votes on D2, and without real arguments.

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Btw, I'm leaving for vacations, so I won't be much active. However, I'll try to post something useful at least once per day.

Noted. ~SP

[Shinnen_no_Me]

I'll be waiting for that post, Kairyuu, as I really need something that makes me take away this idea of lynching DDD...

WLC, I'd also want to know what do you mean with that (the accusation on VPB).

[Shinnen_no_Me]

DDD is right about something: if he was a jester, he could have self-hammered yesterday for an easy win. But he didn't, which makes me think he's not a jester, and (thanks to his other arguments) not a pro-townie either. As suspicious as Nocmen's slip can be, I think DDD has shown us that he's not a pro-town role. Whatever he is, we can't let him live for much.

Lynch DDD!

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Wait, don't you find something odd? Shanba didn't die, he left. Doesn't that mean that his sibling is already dead? I'm not quite sure how the sibling role works (I'm assuming similar to lovers, but I'm not sure), so that may be a chance. Also, if that's what happened, it also means that mafia couldn't kill last night, which means that there's also a chance that we have a doc.

In another issue... [offtopic]Karma is a great thing, isn't it, VPB?[/offtopic]

MOD NOTE: I'm giving full rolename reveals when a player leaves the game. That should explain enough. ~SP

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Well, on N1 the mod told us that the victim was killed. Why would the mod say now that Shanba left instead of was killed? I find that suspicious. We should ask him...

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Ok, just read the mod's note, so I'm guessing that's there's truly not a connection between DDD and Shanba. However, there must be a connection with someone else. And I'm liking that idea of the scum sibling who will end up killing himself tonight. If that's the case, then it's best just to let that issue be.

Right now, I don't have much on anyone, except the small issue with Nocmen's slip and Emp. Regarding this last one... WHY THE HELL DO YOU THINK A JESTER LYNCH IS GOOD???? What would have been if the game ended with DDD's win? Really, you're more of a hinderance (sp?) to the town than a help, Emp!

Vote: Emp

Emp has 18 posts in the game. Most of them are single-phrased, with no content whatsoever. He never does anything to back up his claims, nor he cares for that. He's clearly not helpful to the town, hell, he's clearly ANTI-town. We're at a point in the game where the remaining players need to be useful, and Emp clearly isn't. Going further in days with Emp would only makes things harder for us. His useless posts won't help us in a future, as they haven't, and he will only be a bad distraction for town.

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Wait, if we are making assumptions, there's a chance a mafia member will suicide tonight, so we wouldn't reach lylo tomorrow in case we mislynch. And, just regarding lylo, how many of you would want to be in a lylo situation with Emp (assuming he's town)? My point is, Emp will only be a hinderance on the following days, regarding his alignment. Why? If he's scum, well, duh. But if he's town, then the problem arrives because of his anti-town playstyle (though, I admit that he's playing somewhat different this time, so I'm thinking in dropping this idea, but not yet. He hasn't proven me otherwise yet that he's a capable player.)

However, it's also true that lynching mafia would be better. So, I will leave the first option open to anyone to consider, but I will not push it harder.

Ok, I read WLC's posts, and he didn't strike me as scum. Maybe one or two strange things here and there, but nothing really scummy overall. I tried with Grimmy, but nothing really scummy either. VP, can you point out the cases on those two?

Also, I agree with a mass-claim. And I find it odd that Karyuu don't want one...

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Hmm... The WLC case isn't just too strong. I mean, there are some things there, but just not enough to make me think he's scum. I'm not sure yet who should we lynch today, however, I do want to Emp, Grimmy and WLC claim, in that order. Fluff claim included.

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Yes, I agree with that order. I wanted the scummy ones to claim first, to prevent them to try to copy our claims. But well, Kairyuu's idea is better. So, Emp, claim. Now.

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Hmmm... Emp's claim seems kind of real to me, except with the small slip, which makes it suspicious. Wouldn't he had slipped, I would have believed him. Also, his reaction to VP is also strange too. Sounds like someone is nervous. Hmmm... Wait, I'm thinking in something... Why would he slip? He first thought Shanba was out, because of he leaving. But then, he realized that it would be more logical for him to be at home to get targeted and thus changed his statement.

But... why would he pick a reporter role? I mean, there's a chance his claims are invalid (although I admit I stayed at home N1), so, it's quite risky as a claim. Too much wifom for my own taste...

Any roads, let's move with the next claim. Go ahead, Karyuu.

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Or, you just made a slip. Your scumplay isn't perfect.

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Well, time for my claim. I'm the turkey-leg vendor (paradoxically, because I hate turkey... -_-U). Yep, vanilla as it can be.

So, Grimmy's next, right?

Right now I'm a bit inclined for an Emp's lynch, due to the small slip with his investigation and with the second informative role in such a mini game. But well, let's wait for Grimmy's claim.

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Hmmm... It's truth that the most unlikely role is Emp's. However, it's precisely in this game where I have read a kinda of townish attitude from him, in contrast with other games... So, I'm really not sure how to proceed on this one.

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Also, what's wrong with the vanilla claim? As Karyuu said, it seems the vanilla are the food vendors, so, what's the problem? Would you have preferred me (or VP or Noc) to claim a power role?

Ok, then, let me change my claim: I'm a power role that have the ability to stay quiet during nights, waiting for the dusk to come. During days I have this great ability called "vote", which lets me, with some help of other players with my power role, lynch a scumbag. Albeit it sometimes misses, it's the best PR ever.

There, happy?

[Shinnen_no_Me]

To you, obviously.

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Well? Kairyuu, will you hammer please?

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Yay! We won!!!!! ALRITE!!! GO TOWN!!!! KUDOS TO US!!!! (Not you, DDD )

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Excellent game, SilverPhoenix. We were kind of lucky, I admit, but still, justice prevailed in the end!

[Shinnen_no_Me]

/prein

Can I do it now, right?

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Predictable.

Any roads, I'll believe you next time, VP, when it's about a Jester. However, I'm glad that he won, because that made him talk about this game in that other game we're playing, causing him an exciting and helpful modkill.