Mafia 29: Mafia - Game over!

[Yggdrasil]

Vote Count:

3 lazarusmoth (Save The Dragons, PeaceBringer, Mastermind of Sin)
2 Mastermind of Sin (olliep13, lazarusmoth)
1 JDTAY (KingEnigma)
1 commify (JDTAY)

7 to lynch.

[commify]

Vote Lazarus Moth

This is exactly why people think you've been acting scummy.

[lazarusmoth]

Three votes on me. Not surprised that some people are grasping straws but I have to say that that is all they are doing. STD and PB are mum about their reasons. MoS is doing an OMGUS vote on me since I've been on his case.

I'm sorry that this game seems to be bogging down but I've read all the posts and I'm still liking my vote on MoS.

[Mastermind of Sin]

yeah, way to be totally wrong, lazarus. If you actually bothered to read my posts, you would know that I had posted suspicion about you well before you switched your vote to me, so it's not an omgus. We're on day 3, lazarus...why in hell would anyone ever omgus vote on DAY 3???

[Thesp]

Save the Dragons, it's good to have some significant contribution from you in the game, and I hope others follow suit. And while I know it's difficult to get people to change, at least I'd like to get them to contribute at least.

lazarusmoth, you are incorrect in that StD has been mum on his reasons, the last paragraph of his post is pretty on point, and you ought to address his questions.

Mastermind of Sin, an OMGUS vote is pretty stupid for day 3, which leads me to readdress my question to...

Peacebringer, why in the world did you vote for me earlier? And why are you voting for lazarusmoth now? You may have good reasons for both, I just want them from your mouth (or fingers, or whatever else you type with ).

[Save The Dragons]

I'm actually most suspicious of Laz. Although I'd think with three kills, the doc is pretty likely to go down, mafia is full of twists and turns. Hell, everything's backwards anyway. And I'm curious about why HM was scummy on day two.

First of all, I was hinting at your adament attack against MoS just because he was a doctor who didn't die. Mafia is full of twists and turns meaning scum groups may choose to keep people alive just so the town kills the doc. Maybe they don't but ignoring possibilities sometimes is a scum tactic. And I'm still curious about why HM was scummy on day two. That was directed at you, just in case you missed it the first time.

Peacebringer comes from a faster world. He's out looking for reactions. I don't find it scummy. I do wish he'd say more, but in reality I'm guessing it's not because he has stuff to say. Of course, I skipped PB 101 so I may be completely off.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Save the Dragons, it's good to have some significant contribution from you in the game, and I hope others follow suit. And while I know it's difficult to get people to change, at least I'd like to get them to contribute at least.

lazarusmoth, you are incorrect in that StD has been mum on his reasons, the last paragraph of his post is pretty on point, and you ought to address his questions.

Mastermind of Sin, an OMGUS vote is pretty stupid for day 3, which leads me to readdress my question to...

Peacebringer, why in the world did you vote for me earlier? And why are you voting for lazarusmoth now? You may have good reasons for both, I just want them from your mouth (or fingers, or whatever else you type with ).

Umm, didn't I already explain that it's not an OMGUS vote? Why are you insisting that it is the post right after I explain that it isn't? In fact, let us look at those two posts.

We're on day 3, lazarus...why in hell would anyone ever omgus vote on DAY 3???

Mastermind of Sin, an OMGUS vote is pretty stupid for day 3

sound similar? I wonder why? Maybe because I know that an omgus vote on Day 3 would be stupid and therefore would never do it? Funny how often the simplest answer is the truth...

[DarkLight140]

Mastermind of Sin, he wasn't claiming you were OMGUS voting, he was agreeing with your logic and applying it to PeaceBringer's vote against him earlier. Really, you're being excessively defensive.

[Thesp]

Mastermind of Sin, he wasn't claiming you were OMGUS voting, he was agreeing with your logic and applying it to PeaceBringer's vote against him earlier. Really, you're being excessively defensive.

Quoted for truthery.

My apologies, I do see how what I wrote could be understood other than I intended it. Mastermind of Sin, you have given reasons behind your vote, and I don't classify it as an OMGUS vote.

[PeaceBringer]

Vote Lazarus Moth

This is exactly why people think you've been acting scummy.

I play this way, I understand the suspiscion.

[PeaceBringer]

really want reasons- JDTay for the HM push.


Thesp- voted you because the vote for me seemed more on style of play. You took coron being guilty and then took it to mean musta been a bad guy on the JDTay vote. There may be, but I doubt it. JDTay was not pushed heavily by Coron and where the vote landed.

Voted Lararus moth because his play is odd to me. I don't like where he is pushing. He early on tried to link MoS and coron. Then he pushes the same canidated Coron was pushing in Zoneace and MoS. Unlike the standard Mafiascum player I use my voted differently and find FOS to be toothless. Larzarus also was hard after me, as well as you. Oh and for Lazarus moth, focusing on a claimed doc not being dead is something scum would do to the real doc who they have chosen not to kill. It is right out of Scum 101.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Mastermind of Sin, he wasn't claiming you were OMGUS voting, he was agreeing with your logic and applying it to PeaceBringer's vote against him earlier. Really, you're being excessively defensive.

Quoted for truthery.

My apologies, I do see how what I wrote could be understood other than I intended it. Mastermind of Sin, you have given reasons behind your vote, and I don't classify it as an OMGUS vote.

ok, i just misunderstood, then...I was just exasperated that you would say what I thought you said right after I explained myself.

[DarkLight140]

Can we get a prod, kick in the pants, or other alerting-signal to get into the thread for KingEnigma and olliep13? Neither of them have been around in a while, and as discussion seems to be slowing, maybe one of them would be inclined to shed light on, well, something or other.

[Yggdrasil]

KingEnigma and olliep13 have been prodded.

Since discussion has seemed to slow, there is a new

deadline

, set for

Wednesday, March 9 at 11:59pm PST (US)

.

[Save The Dragons]

Wow, this game just died.

Laz, would you like to enlighten us on the points brought up against you?

Everyone else, would you like to vote Laz?

[Save The Dragons]

In fact, if you voted someone else, I wouldn't really care much. Just as long as you participate. Please?

[Mastermind of Sin]

I completely agree with the above two statements.

[lazarusmoth]

Apologies for misreading your last paragraph, STD. I somehow didn't equate it being aimed at me. Fact is, I don't know why HM was scummy (did I think he was scummy?) on Day Two and I'm feeling particularly lazy that I don't want to go through the earlier posts.

About MoS being scummy, I'm guess I'm taking hard gut feel over this. But I'm starting to think my gut feels aren't worth squat in this particular game so I'd gladly take it off now.

unvote

Bottomline is: I'm a bit out of sorts with regards to this game and I'm going to correct that by reading it over the weekend.

It also doesn't help that the others don't seem to be posting.

[DarkLight140]

Okay, what's wrong with us all? Surely we can come up with something better than "Start posting, people!" to say.

That said, I'm hypocritically saying that and promising a more detailed post of new thoughts and suspicions tomorrow. Hopefully, other people will be willing to do the same thing. Really, guys, four posts in two days in a game this big is just disgusting.

[Mastermind of Sin]

i've pretty much expended all my thoughts and suspicions that need to be public at this point. Plus i'm too tired to add to it.

[Save The Dragons]

My sentiments were:

Everyone vote Laz, and if your not going to do that, at least post.

[DarkLight140]

Okay. Firstly... there are currently 13 people alive. ZONEACE, olliep13, KingEnigma, and Scalebane have not posted since before Coron was shot. Of these people, olliep13 and King Enigma are voting, although their last posts were approximately a month ago in each case. ZONEACE and Scalebane both posted last promising more detailed thought/greater participation soon, and have not returned in more than two weeks. I think all four should be considered strongly for replacement. By which I mean, replaced overnight or even sooner if at all possible. If nothing else, a new perspective might kick the game into gear.

On to my suspicions.

Firstly, with regards to lazarusmoth, the biggest thing I pick up from him is his continued pushing for Mastermind of Sin- all the way back to his and Coron's spamfest however many pages ago. He seems to have trouble bringing up his reasons in a concerted fashion, or maybe just doesn't bother with doing so. Therefore, I've tried to collect them: MoS has good chemistry with Coron, hops around in votes, stalled when roleclaiming, didn't die the night after he claimed doc, and can deflect suspicions well. The validity of these, well, is up to the reader, I suppose. I, at least, am willing to give Mastermind of Sin another night. I would almost have marked laz as a cop role of some sort until this recent unvote. Now, I just don't know. He also went after HairyMezican and mentioned Maximus and Coron as well, but as there's a mix of alignments there, I don't think that's either in his favor or against. As for his apparent backpedaling now... we'll see what he has to say.

Secondly, Save The Dragons. joe posted almost nothing other than votes; after pushing hard but mostly unsupportedly for HM he started voting for MoS with no reasoning at all. STD came into the game voting laz. He brought up mostly what I just said, but found it enough to vote. In any case, I don't find him particularly scummy.

Thirdly, Thesp. bigbenwd was essentially useless, doing nothing but lynching ZONEACE. He entered the game actively, tried to get read on everyone, although he had a neutral read on Coron, which might be the safest move to make. Most of his time has been spent raging against inactivity, lack of reasoning, and persuing people for those reasons. While it's easy to believe that he's actually opposed to these things and feels so strongly about it, if none of the townies were lurkers or people who vote without reasoning, it could make excellent cover.

Fourthly (I need to stop using this pattern), Uraj45. He advocated no lynch day 1, but eventually changed to voting claimed goons since he felt more day 1 claims would be bad. Since then he's gone mostly with the crowd, voting and unvoting Mastermind of Sin around his claim, PeaceBringer after Thesp attacked his style, JDTAY around Coron's shooting, then PeaceBringer around his claim. I'd call that pattern more than a bit suspicious.

Fifthly (Gah! I can't stop!), commify. He went after Coron early, following laz's post about his chemistry with MoS, and tried to push the lynch that way rather than towards claimed goons. Later, he quietly aligned against Maximus but didn't vote against him. He aligned against JDTAY, and since that dissolved, has sort of been sitting and supported other's points. Scummy? Maybe. I'm not sure.

Sixthly and lastly, JDTAY. He started the game by going against Locus, and then left for HairyMezican. He continued to push HM until he died, a which point he voted the newly arrived Thesp, but quickly took that back after a comment from me. As people started to bandwagon him, he claimed an unspecified role that needs several more nights to work, and said that his going after only confirmed innocent all game was relatively meaningless (while I'll say that it isn't, I definitely wouldn't expect a mafia kill on HM when it puts JDTAY in that situation if he was one of them). Finally, he hinted at possible resuls tomorrow if he lives through the night. He seems very aware that he's inactivebut is taking few steps to correct this. If not for the whole Coron issue, I'd probably be taking a very, very close look at him.

I'm not going to bother making summaries for the really bad lurkers (who I want replaced), myself (for whom I'm hopelessly biased), or Mastermind of Sin and PeaceBringer (who have claimed and, further, probably been looked over already by anyone who cares). In any case, I'm not actually voting anyone just yet, but hopefully this helps people reach conclusions.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I agree with DarkLight140, and I'd like to take this post to address a couple of the points he mentioned had been made against me. I don't see how stalling the role claim was a scummy move for me. Considering my role, why would I be eager to reveal myself? As for not dying, it's common mafia practice in a big game to leave the doc alive for at least one night in hopes of getting them lynched for not dying. As for Coron, we like to hang out, and since the game was stalling, we thought we'd liven it up with a little unrelated chat. We'd already made our statements pertinent to the game and were waiting for everyone else to contribute. So, we chatted idly in the meantime. This is the way I saw it at least. I don't claim to know what Coron was thinking, but that's my guess. As for vote-hopping, that was just my style at the time. I like to see the reactions I get for placing a vote a certain way, and I tend to change my vote as my suspicions change. While it's not exactly applicable, since if I was scum I would still know this, but I'd like to point out that scum are usually more persistent, sticking with their votes for longer periods of time in order not to seem like they are just trying to lynch anybody, which is what it can seem like if you don't know the reasons behind a vote. Needless to say, I changed my vote each time for reasons that I usually tried to post in the thread around my vote. If you want to verify that vote-hopping has been my style, though, take a look at day one of THoMioST mafia.

I'm happy with my current vote, and unless Lazarusmoth come up with a very good explanation for his actions, I'm going to keep it there. If he can explain himself, I'd like to take a closer look at Uraj's actions throughout the game.

[commify]

This entire game has me pissed off. Too, too many people need to be or have been replaced.

I stand by my vote against Coron early on. Also, if I haven't had anything productive to say recently, maybe its because most people aren't posting.

[DarkLight140]

I know that it's probably not that great of a solution, but I would advocate putting the game on hold until we can get some decent replacements. There's no way that what we've got going now will live up to the game's full potential, and deadlining continually when four-six people are unable to carry on a decent discussion of twice their number is hardly fair, to anyone. The worst part, of course, is that the townies can kill off those who speak a lot- after all, those are the people most valuble to the mafia, yes?- and then there's really no one left.

Therefore, mod, can we get drastic modkills, replacements, game on hold, ANYTHING other than just saying that the game will move forward burdened by a huge amount of dead-weight-players? I don't think this is fun for any parties involved.

(As for you, commify, standing by a vote against someone early on is hardly the best argument for your innocence when they're dead and confirmed town.)