Newbie 764 - Game Over

[Japles]

Vote: Korts

Yay mafia game!

[Japles]

just trying to fit in with everyone else.

This... I was just on for a few seconds to read... and when I play a game, I roll a die to determine my first vote.

I will now

unvote

...

[Japles]

And for me not saying anything... my laptop's inverter went bad on Saturday... and I needed to get a monitor to hook it up to... so, I will be here now. Sorry for the absence.

[Japles]

@Japles
Ahh, i was implying that is was a bad (read: scummy) thing that you're just trying to fit in with everyone else. I think that a scum would do everything in their power to be seen as just one in the crowd.

So 'just trying to fit in' would seem pretty scummy to me.

Your vote struck me as an attempt to just look like everyone else, get your name on the board with a minimum of fuss and comment, seems fairly scummy to me.

If you're content with your explanation of 'i wanted to fit in', that's fine, but if that's the case, I'm certainly keeping my vote on you as the scummiest person around in my view.

That is how I play my first vote... yes, I said I was 'trying to fit in'... but then again, that is how I play my games. I RVS with a dice roll my first day then unvote from there once the real stuff starts happening.

So yes and no on the just trying to fit in...

[Japles]

Yes but that tells us that you hadn't payed any attention to the discussion before, Japles, looks like you still haven't. If you "always do that" then you would have been better off stating why you disagree with Kairyuu right away.
I'm kind of getting pseudo-participation vibes from you, which I don't like. On the other hand, by not stating even the silly reason you actually did the opposite to fitting in when you look at the conversation, so maybe slightly more inattentive than scummy - anyway not pro-town so far.

I get what you are saying here. I only had a few moments... which I rolled, skimmed and voted before I had to head out the door. Maybe I should have waited until I got home from work and exhausted to read the thread and then post, but I didn't... then my laptop went haywire. So I don't know how that makes me anti-town already... but hey, I understand.

So would you mind taking a stance in the Kairyuu vs. Korts thing? You're just replying to messages to you so far. Gonna have to

FoS Japles

at this point.

You got it!

With me, random voting sometimes gets good discussion going, especially on Mafiascum where we are normally total strangers. I also play off-site on a place with 10-12 rotating players, so we have gathered tells and all that from playing so much together. Hell, a few of them have stopped doing the RVS altogether.

So it is really based on who you are and how you play. I see advantages and disadvantages to the RVS.

[Japles]

Umm, Japles, you kind of answered beside the question.
Meanigfulness of random vs. arbitrary was the thing.

Is there really any meaning in a Random vote? Isn't that why it is called random? You can use whatever excuse you want... but at the end of the day, it is still a random vote. Yes, I normally do one for discussions sake, but it is still random.

Now.. going to read the rest of this... and hopefully have more input.

[Japles]

@all: Time to reveal my plan, as it has served its purpose as well as it can right now.

Korts was a decoy. I specifically mentioned that I had a plan involving getting people to comment on our debate so that the scum would "see through" that issue, and react in the way I would expect of a townie; that is, they would agree with me. Based on that, I determined that Sando was quite possibly scum buddying up to me. However, this was the weak part of my gambit, because I can easily see townies buddying up to an IC.

What actually forms the divide between myself and Korts in this case is the fact that I was deliberately acting mildly scummy to get Korts to criticize me (of course, the 'random vote' issue was unintentional, but it served as a good starting point). Someone paying attention to that, and to what Korts was saying, would, as a townie (not 100%, but my estimate is that it's better than 60%) side with Korts and find me scummy, possibly even enough for a vote. A scum, on the other hand, would probably be more focused on the fact that I had a decent case on an easy townie target, and would side with me in order to have that route available to them in the event that the wagon gained steam.

A good decoy plan and you really got people involved in that for a good page or so. Seems to have brought out some very noticeable things.

Unvote. Vote: Sando

Wow! That was quick!

Yet despite all of this you never voted me. I was on the brink of voting for you earlier when I called you out on your previous statement but now my suspicions are more solidified.

So because he didn't vote on you, you are suspicious of him? What? Si he was a bit suspicious of you, but not enough for a vote... and you think you were wronged because he did not put a vote on you?

*headdesk*

Note that all first votes are arbitrary due to there not being anything to base them on. It is not to be assumed otherwise. Therefore the act of explicitly prefacing the bolded vote with the word "random" seems like a conscious maneuver, and one that has purpose. There are no good pro-town motives other than fishing for reactions (which should only be done if you're not achieving it by doing something scummy) for this.

QFT. Exactly!

Note that these are what I mean by random and arbitrary: random is based on nothing at all, and decided only by luck/chance/call it whatever; arbitrary is based on something, anything, and is decided by cognitive functions of the player. I don't care if you vote for a player having a stupid avatar or because their name sounds silly, just make note of the fact that

randomly

voting is counterproductive.

I agree that putting

Random

before

vote

is wrong, but I do not disagree with random voting.

He initially just said he was waiting on discussion to get going, but did not pull the vote. It was not until I pressed him further that he unvoted. He did not unvote when the theory was explained. He unvoted when I kept questioning him. Quite possibly an attempt to placate me, which shows he is hesitant to enter a debate. This, in turn, implies that he does not want to be put in the spotlight, which is a scummy mentality.

I didn't notice the delay in unvoting. Noted, thank you.

I had missed this completely. Thanks for bringing it forward, Korts!

Japles is commenting only on things that directly reference him--he might be unresponsive scum. Then again he's pleading technical difficulties, so we'll see.

Sorry, I had been working a lot and hardly had time for much else but responding to things only said about/to me... now that I have a day off... I can read and respond to other things in more detail, as I am doing with this post.

unvote, vote: Sando

And there is the 3rd quick vote on Sando...

First, the Doc gambit. For those that don't know, Kairyuu used a gambit that he'd seen used before (i believe you said it was in your own newbie game, or by your IC from your newbie game or something along those lines). He claimed Doc first day, with no provocation (ie he wasn't in danger of being lynched and needed to claim to stay alive). It's important to note that he was a vanilla townie in that game.

What does that game have to do with this game? When I got put into this game, I did not go through and see what player has done what before... because to me, each game is different because you have different players and no two games are going to be played exactly the same.

Kairyuu and Chaos, scum.

Why the vote for Kairyuu, other than that he's scum? Well I'm convinced of Kairyuu, but I'm still not convinced that Japles isn't scum. The other reason that Kairyuu could be coming after me is that i refuse(d) to remove my vote from Japles. I think the most likely explanation is Kairyuu/Chaos as scum, but i don't discount the possibility of Kairyuu/Japles.

Wow! You go from being sure Kairyuu and Chaos are scum and give all these reasons and then 'well Japles could be scum too'...

for being so sure Chaos and Kariyuu are scum, you sure faltered on it, Sando...

FOS: Sando

Explain this. Why do people need to meta me before voting you?

(Meta: To read previous games played by a player in order to get a feel for the way they play as scum and town in order to get a read on them in a current game)

QFT.

@all: As a general rule, it is said that discussion is good for the town, and quickly ending the Day is good for the scum. That is based on some playstyles. Others prefer methodical, swift Days, with a reasonably quick consensus lynch after some scumhunting. I am of that second group. As long as there is enough information for a lynch, I tend to want that lynch to happen. That is just my style, and other styles are perfectly valid as well.

I tend to go towards that second group as well. Long, drawn out days can sometimes get worse and worse... while quicker days can still get as much info as long ones.

@all again: Whoooo. That took quite awhile. Have fun sorting through it all.

Yes, that was quite a bit to walk into... but it was enjoyable.

[Japles]

Well, I have read all your arguments against Kariyuu and I don't agree with them.

And now, you have given me, in that last post, what was needed to push me over the line...

Vote: Sando

[Japles]

And now, you have given me, in that last post, what was needed to push me over the line...

Vote: Sando

Also, how about you answer some of the questions/accusations against you instead of just putting someone at L-1 with what appears to be an OMGUS vote.

You have your vote on Kariyuu and I voted you... still trying to figure out how that is an OMGUS vote...

Nice try, though.

[Japles]

Not overly defensive, just wondering how he goes from being sure you and Kariyuu are scum at the beginning of the post, to then going... "but it could be Japles/Kariyuu"

Just seemed like he went from being *so certain* to not so certain.

[Japles]

Happy Belated Birthday to you, Sando.

unvote

With all this content... and I have been busy for a few days... so I will do a re-read and post later. I have the next couple of days off.

Yay me.