Mini 767: Cubic Mafia (Game Over!)

[Beyond_Birthday]

/Confirm

Well well... it looks like the reincarnation of that crappy URoE game I played.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Vote Riceballtail

Why'd you think I was scum last game?

[Beyond_Birthday]

Aweh, come now Isacc, you have to love me more than that.

In fact! Why don't the five of us celebrate:

*takes knife and cuts the wrists of Rice, Isacc, Magnus, and Trumpet, letting their blood flow into my cup.*

And now, a little coffee for my sugar.

*Adds coffee and drinks; the other four are twitching, needing blood on the floor.*

Ah...my insanity aside:

caf19: That's nice and all, but at least 4 of us can vouch that Magnus is always this....eager. He expects the town to be magical and always direct, despite the impossibility of that happening right now.

PhilyEc: Your theory on scum voting in the RVS is absurd. But, whatever.

[Beyond_Birthday]

@Beyond_Birthday: When you say that 4 of you can vouch that Magnus is always this eager, do you mean as both town and scum? In your experience, has this approach worked well for the town?

As town only. However, I was mafia who painted him as scummy (for buddying up to a cop who claimed day 1), but he did correctly identify 2/3 mafia. (Not me. To those who were alive, I came off fairly town, but even if Magnus did attack someone in that game, it probably would have been largely ignored.)

However, I understand his style of play and though I'm not expert enough to know the nuance differences between his town and scum play, I can tell what is his play style and what isn't.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Thanks Rice. That was the most useful post ever. Then again, I'm bored and relatively useless in games until discussion picks up, and this talk between Noc, Magnus, and Isacc is about to put me to sleep with boredom.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Thanks Rice. That was the most useful post ever. Then again, I'm bored and relatively useless in games until discussion picks up, and this talk between Noc, Magnus, and Isacc is about to put me to sleep with boredom.

I think the conversation is pretty relevant. Do you have any comments on it?

No, which is why it bores me.

even if Magnus did attack someone in that game, it probably would have been largely ignored

Magnus, do you consider this to be a true statement,? Whether you consider it true or not, do you consider BB justified in making it? What do you see as his purpose and the likely result of him saying it in this game?

Thanks Rice. That was the most useful post ever. Then again, I'm bored and relatively useless in games until discussion picks up, and this talk between Noc, Magnus, and Isacc is about to put me to sleep with boredom.

This bothers me, because it seems true of a lot of players, but is also an excuse for the scum to cruise through Day 1. How about saying something startling and waking yourself up?

1. It was true for the situation last game. He guessed 2/3 scum correctly, but people didn't really take to his guesses much as they were not well substantiated (at least in my opinion.) And by "ignored," I suppose easily shrugged off and countered.

2. Meh, Rice did it in the game (with Mangus) I was referencing, where she just kept popping in with something of a "no opinion, BB's scum, bye." Indeed, last game I was scum, but she annoys me because she didn't substantiate either, but as she was insane cop, I really couldn't counter her and was dayvigged (by accident? I never did understand how his day investigation became dayvig.)

@Ca19 But, I have. I have found annoying people or pissing them off gets faster results. So, I did something obtrusive but not inherently scummy to move conversation to something I care to talk about.

On Magnus: VOILA!

Well, err... I'd hope they'd listen to me.
I don't know, I supose I'm not good at convincing people, but fiding the scum is a different story. Generally, more people think I'm scum when I'm town, and call me obvtown when I'm scum, judging from the games I've been in. (Much to my amusement, of course).

Ah, this is nice to be right.

That said, he clearly understands my playstyle, and may be trying to avoid me, but I don't think B_B would consider trying to convince me that he's town worth the risk of appearing scummy to others.

I think B_B is town, mostly because I was wrong last time I said that, and I said it for different reasons.

Ah, I love this kid. Not for calling me town, but because I feel special having a kind of meta. I typically avoid playing the same way twice, but my general approach to games are the same, alignment irrelevant.

So you think B_B is acting differently, even with the last post he's made? To me, his last post seems like hes just actively lurking, posting enough to make us see he is here, but not contributing to the game. However, that is only from that last post.
And you do realize that just because you were wrong last time doesn't mean anything regarding the outcome of this time, right?

Did you do a meta search on me, because your introductory clause sounds this way. I don't like you, +3%.

Also, gambler's fallacy doesn't apply to analysis of playstyle in judging scum.

And: In the last game, I didn't even post until page 5/6. So your point? I have been bored up to this point.

@Orion:

Meh, how do you think I'll play this game? If I play exactly the same way (once we're in the thick of it), would you think me scum?

@Trumpet: Your post is unhelpful. Stop copying me! *Grr*

[Beyond_Birthday]

@Caf19:

I do percents or some such attack on everyone periodically. I am impossible to read on who I am hunting.

@PhillyEc:
You do ignore one thing: Magnus' overbearing pressure on players works slightly better on experienced scum than experienced town. Novices will almost always crack which can throw off his method, but it does work, only if one can read the minor nuances of the other player's response. Whether or not Magnus has this ability has yet to be determined, but I feel the approach is at least logical.

@Nocmen:
Did you really find Magnus' plan surprising? It seemed like a book opening to me.

[Beyond_Birthday]

There's a whole lot of active lurking going on this game.

I, for one, am starting to get annoyed at it.

I'm suspicious of all of you who are posting things like "I'm bored" or making these short posts. It doesn't really help your case either that you're not contributing anything on your own to the game as well.

Vote: Beyond_Birthday

Hm... I don't think my posts have been generally short. Your attack on me is generally unfounded, but if a "bored" comment bothers you that much...*Smiles wickedly before cutting into my arm in a kind of writing*
*As blood pours down my flesh, I turn to Dour*

@Dour: My percents are a method of attack, not a play style. My mafia game might be flawed, but my town game is still strong.

*turns to caf19*

Who I'm hunting is difficult to read. I dunno if I'm easy to read or not. I don't care what you think of me, no matter if you're scum or not, that isn't my job. My job is to find the anti-town factions.

*Still writing in arm, turns to Nocmen*
One second...

*beat*

Done.

*Shows writing carved into arm*

OMGUS Vote Nocmen

*Collapses*
Ow...this hurts...so not worth it.

[Beyond_Birthday]

I don't care what you think of me, no matter if you're scum or not, that isn't my job. My job is to find the anti-town factions.

BB, if you are town, would you not have three jobs:

1) To find the anti-town factions (as you say).
2) To present your case in such a way that other town players also vote for them (which is what you described magnus as failing to do in a previous game).

3) To not appear so scummy that the town targets you instead (obviously being lynched as a townie can be ok depending on circumstances)

What do you think- is that list about right?

If 1 and 2 are successfully done, then 3 should be automatic. Only scum have to make a conscience effort to look town. (As do amateur townies, but I am not a novice. Not an expert, but not a novice.)

Wait...do you actually have reasons for doing so, or just randomly OMGUSing me?

I don't think your vote is a threat, really, so I'm playing a game with you, yes. Thanks for being a good sport.

Who I'm hunting is difficult to read. I dunno if I'm easy to read or not. I don't care what you think of me, no matter if you're scum or not, that isn't my job. My job is to find the anti-town factions

OMGUS Vote Nocmen

Eh? Dude thats the biggest scumtell all game, an omgus under generally believable opinion and now you simply punish your suspector by returning the vote rather than looking past 'his mistake' and identifying true scum. I'm really susprised at this move to be honest, care to redeem yourself before I'm completely convinced you're mafia?

Guinea Pig! *Takes scalpel, and cuts open the rib cage* After I cut the aorta, I wonder how long you can watch your heart beat before you die...hm... so many questions:

Seriously though, you're proving my point.

Isacc's post: I knew you would get it. Go ahead and ruin the sick, twisted joke. Now, as for the point of it:

Scum, if the object of a joke (which ends in there being voting) causes their percent to be raised by 1% (at least on day one) if they over react. In other words, if Nocmen has posted something similar to PhilyEc's post, I would have found him the slightest bit more suspicious. However, I don't. He handled it well, in a town "I'm sure this will be explained" manner. (Though, not in those words, per se.)

Magnus is playing like himself, but I must admit, something is nagging me.

Dourgrim's play in this game also bothers me, but I'm afraid I must wait before I can say anymore on this.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Scum, if the object of a joke (which ends in there being voting) causes their percent to be raised by 1% (at least on day one) if they over react. In other words, if Nocmen has posted something similar to PhilyEc's post, I would have found him the slightest bit more suspicious. However, I don't. He handled it well, in a town "I'm sure this will be explained" manner. (Though, not in those words, per se.)

So, do you find PhilyEc suspicious for his condemnatory reaction to your omgus? You seem to be using the tactic solely to judge Nocmen and ignoring the reactions of others.

Yes, I

seem

to be.

@PhilyEc: For some reason, your post bothers me. I think its because you make a statement about a lack of scum hunting while you continue to scum hunt...

@SSK: When did "unusual" become "scummy?" Paranoid and eager to flip things around on RBT as soon as possible, huh?

Unvote

Just because the joke is long sense over.

[Beyond_Birthday]

*since

[Beyond_Birthday]

I've read here. Nothing more to add really, except that I am waiting on Phily's response.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Note to self: I am hear, and while Phily did ask me a question, I don't really know to what it is referencing. I may have been mistaken then...
...
*Checks*
I think you mentioned that there is a lack of concentration on just the scummy people in reaction to dour/magnus. The problem is, you haven't really attacked the "scummy" people, not with any real effort anyway.

[Beyond_Birthday]

...

*looks at fireworks of the Magnus arguement*

*sits with knees to my chest, grabbing a cup of coffee, I add a seemingly endless amount of sugar until it stirs similarly to molasses. Drink cup.*

I think I need jam.

*eats jam while talking.*

Isacc -31%- Has targeted players who, similar to my view, seem suspect. Acted logical and struck at Walnut and Dourgrim for play (particularly her analysis of 83-135.) The only thing that bugs me is a lot of filler post, but he did make the effort to note that he would be unavailable.
magnus_orion -27%- Has presented an excellent case against Dourgrim. Despite questioning, and Walnut's tempting invitation to attack me for my assessment of Magnus' play, he has remained level headed, calm, and logically countered Walnut and Dourgrim. I feel most confident in Magnus' alignment thus far.
Nocmen -36%- Though Noc's percentage is, admittedly, high, Nocmen has put fourth a substantial amount of effort in playing the game. The percentage is high because, as Isacc pointed out, she voted someone (me?) for lurking when flame has made, perhaps, 1 post. IAlso, a majority of his post seem to be spent not scum hunting but prodding lurkers, a terrible replacement for actual hunting.
Beyond_Birthday - 100%- Obvious serial killer. Look at this psychopath, he's carved his left arm out for God's sake!
Flame -?- I don't know who this is.
caf19-33%- Not enough to make a huge concern over, but definitely someone I need posting more.
Riceballtail-33%- I can't read you...
PhilyEc-37%- Maybe he's just not used to people like me, but I don't like Phily's posting thus far.
Trumpet of Doom-35%-Lurking, I'm sure he has a reason... Quell est votre raison, mon ami?
MafiaSSK-?- I just met the guy.
Dourgrim -42%- His play style has rubbed me the wrong way, and his logical fallacies are too numerous and too...foolish for the Dour I know.
Walnut-40%- His insistence on my alleged "undermining of Magnus' play" is stupid. I...really don't have anything else. That seems to be a majority of what his post talks about, and...yeah... It's a stupid concept that scum might find a reason to hide behind. So, stupid=scummy for once. Yay!

[Beyond_Birthday]

*
MafiaSSK-?- I just met the guy.

I have some posts. How can you not deduct anything from them?

Probably trying to say the he's not attempting to be hasty in his method of deciding if you are town or scum by your current play.

I endorse this statement. My method demands X number of posts. (It's why I will probably drop any game I play with Killaseven.) And no, I'm not telling you the number. It is also inflated until at least two alignments are known (therefore, by day 2.)

However, I trust my system, it has worked so far, and it will work again. So, moving on:

Magnus:...wait, what is the condition that makes Isacc suspicious to you? You mention its conditional and then make the condition that your wrong which...is...well...true for anyone, so you are not explaining yourself well.

MafiaSSK: Seems like your putting as little effort into scum hunting as possible. I really don't see any real content from you. So, who do you find scummy?

[Beyond_Birthday]

Dourgrim:
Your play in that game was significantly more logical (and I knew we won, which is why I didn't waste time referencing, my apologies and it was very loose) in my perspective. Here, you almost seem to be reaching. I would expect more of you, but maybe I just don't see your logic.

For that matter, he's been trying to make individual players suspicious of each other for much of the game, including apparently trying to make Nocmen look at RBT.

It's about consistency. If two players perform a similar action there needs to be a reason given why it is scummy for one of them but a null tell for the other. It makes the player think about why they commented the first time and justify the decision around whether to apply the same logic the second time.

I agree with this statement completely. Even I think it's bad play that so early in this game, we go and just ignore some players, and I will admit I've even been doing that, ignoring some of the peopole who havent psoted as much and gone after a few people. We should really make sure we get as many opionions in as possible before going and making the first lynch.

So, we should lynch Empking and Zwetchenwasser every single game because their play style is scummy? No. That is the point of metagaming, so you can use someone's play style to condemn/defend them. It is inherent that in a game with familiar people that you expect a certain style of play from a person and not from others. Lowell is one of the most unique styles I've seen and I will not attack him for his play. His actions have not been shown to be scummy, and I think you're very closed minded for ignoring this possibility.

[Beyond_Birthday]

I'd say Nocmen is town.

I wanna know why you have this opinion.

Who I'm hunting is difficult to read. I dunno if I'm easy to read or not. I don't care what you think of me, no matter if you're scum or not, that isn't my job. My job is to find the anti-town factions

OMGUS Vote Nocmen

Eh? Dude thats the biggest scumtell all game, an omgus under generally believable opinion and now you simply punish your suspector by returning the vote rather than looking past 'his mistake' and identifying true scum. I'm really susprised at this move to be honest, care to redeem yourself before I'm completely convinced you're mafia?

In Myko's Open 126, recently closed, you mentioned reading a lot of (I assume Zwet's?) games and found his one or two liner posts were common for his game play. Why then do you mistake my normal game play for a scum tell?

Aggressive as in attacking everyone in the game. It's a scumtell because aggressiveness shows that they want night more and do not like the day. This usually means that they are mafia.

In Day One I'm not suprised. Theres been no concentration on scummy players yet since we've not made much progress, would you agree? The only problem is, attacking everyone doesnt help anyone. More concentration on scummiest players is more appropriate.

Here, you bother me because you start off sounding, vaguely, like you are defending Magnus. You then move on to suggest he is attacking everyone since their is no focus on scummy players, but then fail to make any reference or inference to who the scummy players are. Let's say you suspected me for my "scum tell." Why not say:
Scummy players such as BB or others? (I will grant you that at this point, you may have read that Magnus doesn't suspect me the way some people might, but I still feel that a lack of logic is present in this post.)

In Open 126, I will admit you have a plethora of worthless posts and arguments about...definitions? with whoever Wulfy... Looking at his join date, that had to be his second or third game... Why would you get in a stupid argument like that? Oh, your just as new... I just realized this. Anyway, my point here is that despite posts like THAT, you generally had a greater attention to attacking posts and actually posting helpful content (most notably, I am seeing a lack of scum hunting in this game.)

Oh, and
@MAGNUS:
In the other game, 126, he did repeat himself quite often as Vanilla. Therefore, that is playstyle/habit and not a scum tell.

Back to PHILY!
Phil, look: I get the fact you think I'm scummy, but my issue is that after doing this analysis of these two games, I feel that your contribution of scum hunting is seriously lacking. You constantly allude to the fact you thought my OMGUS VOTE post was scummy, which is fine, but your failure to actually extend that case beyond repetition makes you look very scummy. Therefore,

Vote PhilyEc

I'm affraid your meta game doesn't quite add up for me, though its very close, and this is a very slight percentile your leading by.

At the everyone! (intended)

PARTICIPATE!!

[Beyond_Birthday]

@BB: What about phillyec suddenly changing from passive fence sitting comments to active attacks? Is that common for him?

In the other game, he wasn't agressive until he saw someone do something (he considered) really scummy and then attacked him without mercy until he reevaluated the other player based on their reactions, so I suppose the same idea could apply from a perspective of fence sitting to sudden agression... That is true...

I just think that his play in Open 126 seemed stronger and more logical...

However, to continue my point: In Open 126, his attack on the person, Wulfy, eventually did end because he reevaluated his play. Also, Phily and Wulfy were both town. Wulfy won endgam, Phily shot N1. (For those who care but are too lazy to actually go look it up.)[/opinion].

Though definitely not cleared, Phily's behavior doesn't condemn him. However Magnus and caf, you two probably need a better reason to attack Phily. I do like voting Phily till he returns to scum hunting (as far as I can see).

[Beyond_Birthday]

True, Orion, but should we not then press other people who have spoken little? Trumpet, for example, should be pressured for the same reason.

Hopefully someone good will come in for Flame. *Sighs* This game is stalling...

[Beyond_Birthday]

Later Dour, till Monday.

Caf: You see my point on Trumpet? I think if Trumpet is scum, Magnus' raises slightly due to his lack of attack against him the way he attacked Phily. Keeping vote on Phily till he has time and actually does make a scum hunting post.

RBT: Any inclination of who is possible scum?

Isacc: GET BACK HERE!

[Beyond_Birthday]

I'm also a bit wary of magnus trying to string lynches together by saying that Isacc is scummy if Phily is town. did you ever explain why that is the case, magnus?

Well, its about time somebody mentioned that. I was starting to think you'd all lost your heads.

1. Neither philly nor issac are lynch worthy at this point. If we were forced into making a lynch this instant with no further discussion, I'd go with philly. But we should interrogate the suspect, gather information on them, and collect data. This way we are better informed once we decide on a lynch.

2. Issac is scummy if philly flips town. Based on a few premises: That scum want to lynch asap, and that scum are afraid to push for this. I've played as scum, and I feel that there is a natural inclination toward finding something acceptable once a townie or two does it. Since I know I am town, Issac's reluctance to vote Philly upon post # 145, but he votes philly in his post # 166, directly following my post # 165 where I vote philly.

Assuming philly is town, then Issac would feel that when I voted him, it became established that it would not be impossible for a townie to take this route. Issac's immediate jump to take this action makes him slightly scummier then anyone else on the wagon. That said, with any town lynch day 1, unless the lynch is forced by deadline, the possiblity is much greater that scum would be on the wagon as opposed to not. So, if philly flips town, everyone on the wagon should be subject to greater scrutiny. Issac had already commented on philly, but only voted him after I did, so he sticks out among the members of the wagon. With a deadline lynch, I'm not entirely sure if scum would necessarily want to avoid the lynch or not, since it is technically forced, so they might hide from the wagon to avoid aforementioned scrutiny...

Also, the reason I deal with "stringing lynches together" is very simply due to habit forming, as a result of me never having survived night 1 as town in the history of my play on mafia scum, for various reasons, so its only natural that I'd put out my thoughts on future events before I no longer can. Its not that I suspect I'm going to be nightkilled, but more of a "just in case" type of thing.

+4%
Somehow, I'm seeing more Mafia theory and theorizing on players being linked than I am seeing actual scum hunting. This looks strange Magnus. You usually take a position of attacking everyone viciously and reading deeply into texts, but with more support on why a person is scum for X, not by relation. Although, I could be reading this wrong.

Nocmen, get back here. With a series of minor posts, you've failed to advance the game and to contribute.

[Beyond_Birthday]

@BB: Do you want me to attack ToD for some reason?

See, in the last game, you attacked the scum boss (whoever Phate replaced) viciously for his style of posting and his general lack there of. You are doing it against Isacc (who definitely needs it. His play style is radically different from last game), but it seems unlike you to batantly ignore someone like that. As for RBT, we all have that problem.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Nocmen, get back here. With a series of minor posts, you've failed to advance the game and to contribute.

That's just hilarious. You're yelling at me to contribute, when you were the one that was bored when I had something close to a relevant discussion.

As of right now, I really don't have much suspicion. The perpetual walls are contributing to this though, as a lot of it seems to just be talking between each other and it doesn't look like a whole lot of focused scumhunting yet. It's there, but it's not focused.

I don't like this attitude. If you don't think theres enough scumhunting, you can try to do some on your own. Are you afraid of trying to scum hunt? Do you not want to?

Oh, I know it doesn't look like I am. But sometimes the best analyzing is done without questioning.

You do realize that if you are trying to appeal to us to make us understand your causes, you need to focus on a topic and push at it, trying to prove someone is scum? You just seem like you're going and trying to skim through, afraid of causing suspicion on yourself.

Vote: Riceballtail

I just realized this was here. Also, your so called "relevant" discussion WAS boring, and to me, meaningless. This is good though. Sorry I missed it.

Philly/Zwet wagon I don't mind...

No opinion/response to Noc?

Within the next page, Seraphim will call me scummy.

For the love of God, I was scum in that game.

BTW, you're scummy. XP

I love inside jokes. Just...you know...maybe pay a little attention to the surrounding arguments and attempt at scum hunting.

This is a larger suspicion to RBT, who has blatantly ignored Noc's accusation. Rice, even if you think the attack is crappy, I expect an acknowledgment of the attack at the very least since completely pretending it doesn't exist is scummy.

Dour: Your play is still radically different. Granted, maybe you need someone like GIEFF to argue with, but I think your being exceedingly passive this game. Reason?

[Beyond_Birthday]

Dour/Magnus: Honestly, the italics thing is not a big deal. Let's...move on to something else. yay? Yay.

Now then, Isacc posted: bland.

Dour: That would be nice.

Other people: Noticeably absent.

Mod: Prod PhilyEc

[Beyond_Birthday]

Yes, newbie play does not look like scumminess, what made you think it would?

I don't actually know where to start here. It is like arguing with someone who is claiming that the Earth is flat. I see any further discussion of this as a distraction to the thread, but if enough people other than magnus see value in taking it further, please let me know.

I can see now why BB said that people would ignore magnus, so my suspicions of him for that comment have gone down.

*Nods* Although, I faintly see strain on Magnus... scum, perhaps? I dunno. *yawns* Just trying to read deeper than I have at this point because little has happened since my last post that I find important enough to comment on.

RBT: The game=interesting, thus ???

[Beyond_Birthday]

Unvote

Something rubs me the wrong way in the Magnus versus Dour play. I feel Magnus could be scum for some vague reason that I'm unaware of. Maybe Saturday I will do an isolation reread to see if I can derive any proof or if this feeling is misguided.

Dour seems, more or less, on the ball. Very reactive to Magnus post, just not the exact same way he was with Gieff...then again, I dunno of anyone like Gieff. Point aside: Noc's play still rubs me the wrong the way.
Isacc still hasn't made quite the splash I'd expect yet...

[Beyond_Birthday]

*jab Riceballtail*
Get back here dammit! I'm not scum this time to know your right and not really challenge your short posts! Get back here and explain you damn logic! *Is frustrated*

Magnus: Saying you disagree with suspicion of you is pointless. Unlike me, for example, who conceded the point that I was scummy as hell, thus catching a scum who was defending me with terrible logic. Caught a scum-a-day in that game.... ah...good times, right Dour? Goo-ood times. Although, it was really just laziness on my part.

Back to being angry at Rice*

[Beyond_Birthday]

Vote RBT

Only because RBT provides less than Walnut.

FoS: Walnut

Your response sucks.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Isacc, that was a weird attempt at a strawman.

You start off by attempting to define "following" as a particular set of behaviours, then demonstrate how you are not displaying them. You go on to say that I was completely wrong to say that you were "following" when in fact you were actively lurking and proud of it.

Actually, I thought that this sequence of logic was actually a decently designed case. It doesn't prove Isacc town, but it does prove your accusation false.

[Beyond_Birthday]

It's okay Dour, but do try and give a well reasoned vote by Friday.

Unvote; Vote: Walnut

If Walnut is scum, Phily is 30% likely to be scum.

Magnus' forgetfulness to include Phily and his near passive play in reference to.

If Walnut isn't scum, I would suggest Caf19 is scum with Magnus Orion.

Magnus found, in his post on the last page, a question Caf asked that he called scummy. Caf never responded and Magnus never pursued it. This is scummy on both.

A third partner could be Dourgrim, but this is far less likely. (But a more likely third partner to those two than anyone else.)

If Magnus did coach Caf as my last post alludes to as a possibility, it could be infered that he reminded Caf of something along the lines of: Don't suspect Dour without reason, even though you know he's scum.

I may, to be honest, be reading too much into this, but these are my thoughts at the moment, and why, if we do not lynch Walnut, I will pursue Magnus/Caf19.

Noc feels faintly town. Isacc feels faintly town. Everyone else is still on the border line, which is almost as bad as being a suspect. As in, so far from being "town like," its like being suspected of murder.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Ebwop: Walnut's forgetfulness*

[Beyond_Birthday]

BB, what if Walnut is indeed scum who is his accomplice(s)?

Mentioned that is Walnut is scummy, odds Phily are scum go up decently. However, Walnut has made exceptionally little atention to others, so outside of that, I dunno.

Odds SSK is scum if Walnut is not went up very slightly. If Magnus and Walnut are scum, odds SSK is scum becomes incredibly low. (nearing 21%)

[Beyond_Birthday]

EBWOP: Walnut, I read your post and I am far too lazy to check out all those post. If he is town or trying to look town, I'm sure that Isacc will argue about the content of each post/agree. If he disagrees, then I can use what he put in writing to convict him. If he agrees, I'll review my opinion on le deux based on that.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Noc feels faintly town.

Why?

Not really sure. Mostly a feeling, to be honest. I had faint scummy vibes, yes, but just...getting a strange town feel. Other half recognized, now mostly dropped.

Side note: Isacc's post pretty much wins him the argument in my book. Anyone reading this differently post your views, as a few opinions on that before deadline (and very shortly after, a few votes) could be very helpful.

[Beyond_Birthday]

I suspect Isacc, RBT and BB to be the scum team.
I seem to be catching hints of a group in Isacc and BB, and RBT seems to just enjoy pushing the wagon.

Your theory is flawed. Scum rarely, if ever, vote in unision this way unless it lead directly to a win. Not to say its impossible, but it just...doesn't happen. Scum are too paranoid.

Also, BB=scum refutes more than half of your statements about me/in reference to me. I'm starting to consider my latter theory, and the sheer confidence of casting preliminary doubt on if/when Walnut flips scum is very suspicious to me. Then, there is the fact that you, unlike me, failed to consider potential scum with Walnut. Maybe you already moved on since you know he's town?

Walnut, don' claim yet. I want Magnus' response to this and other people's views. Maybe I just received the wrong impression or misread. If I didn't my vote's moving.

[Beyond_Birthday]

So, BB, did you have faith in the walnut wagon or not? A good townie should be willing to put his reputation and standing with the town on the line when making a lynch he believes in, and you've just demonstrated that you don't feel walnut is scummy enough to warrant you becoming more suspicious if he flips town.

I think we both know I have no issue voting to death people I know are town, as scum. However, I do take issue when someone decides to start attacking tomorrow when today isn't finished yet. Town or scum, you haven't won yet, and when it comes to lynching, only scum CAN move on with absolute certainty. Lose a partner or townie, they are always looking to associate the wrong person in order to get a mislynch next time no matter what happens this time.

And "Its not impossible, it just... doesn't happen" is a pretty weak defense.

This means that while possible, it is very rare and there is a lack of data to say, as of yet this has happened.

Hm... I feel that given Walnut's lack of reaction, the wagon is the right play. And due to this last minute discussion, ramifications should be devastating from scum assuming town plays well. With deadline so close, I doubt we have time to hope off. I'll be able to check once tomorrow before deadline. Make a plan by then. Sorry for any inconvenience.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Just checking in, I have information, but short on time. I'll come back after other people have posted. Sorry to do this.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Oh, I'm allowed a bah post under these rules.

Very well then, I better make this count:

BAH!

hmmm... feels lacking..
oh well.

Screw it, scum won't post. I watched Magnus last night. One visitor: Isacc.

Ergo scum and all that crap:

Vote Isacc

[Beyond_Birthday]

...well, then.

Vote: Isacc.

Two reasons:

1) Isacc's claim does not preclude the existence of another player who targeted Magnus. Even if he's telling the truth, "B_B=scum" is a non sequitur.

2) If B_B's lying, he's got some serious cojones. Especially since he claimed first, and we should be nowhere near lylo - there is no good reason for scum to claim unprovoked at this point.

Nice and logical agreement. Nice.

Anyway, shall we continue to lynching Isacc?

[Beyond_Birthday]

1) Would be logical, normally. However, B_B's lie about me targeting Magnus results in the only logical conclusion being that he is scum (or town lying, but in this situation I see no reason for town to lie).

Caught scum. Logical argument results in:

BB claims Isacc is scum, 100%. Isacc claims BB is scum, 100% certain.

Logical conclusions:
Both are scum.
Isacc is scum because BB is unprovoked.
BB was stupid and claimed to try and prove someone else was scum.
BB doesn't recieve full results on who visited Isacc, but since Isacc did not fess up to visiting Magnus, this is false. Therefore.

The odds BB is scum are 49%. Odds Isacc is scum are 51%.

Conclusion: Vote Isacc.

Everyone should at least speak before Isacc is lynched, if this hasn't happened yet.

[Beyond_Birthday]

*Would like a trophy saying "Most aggressive player"*

If anyone is gonna get that trophy it's gonna be me.

[Beyond_Birthday]

BB is still alive, hmm.

Who'd you target last night BB?

Deleted your other two posts for you cuz I'm nice.

Doesn't matter, I was role blocked making my ability utterly useless until we target the role blocker with our lynch or he finds someone more worthy of his prevention skills.

I don't have a clue this game as I thought that surely my powers would be of no more use (ie, I=dead), but based on the spookily accurate guess for the vig kill, the mafia either has a watcher, or picked up on the tell Nocmen left yesterday. (noted above). I might give this a once over later...

[Beyond_Birthday]

You don't have a read on me because I don't want you to.

MafiaSSK seems most scummy to me. On my first read of the game, I noticed his meta defense of himself. Frankly, I could care less about his meta. His behavior isn't townish so I don't like it. I don't think caf is scum and I don't think phail is scum either. I think SSK is where my vote belongs right now.

Vote: MafiaSSK

IF SSK is mafia, Phail is almost definitely not mafia. But, for the record, I think Phail could be mafia. I'm also suspicious of Trumpet, to some degree.

Odds are, Phail is inverse of Trumpet in terms of alignment, but I'm not at all sure. I don't particularly care too much for any of the cases so far, as they seem weaker than we should be having at this point. (Hypocrisy, thy name is Birthday. Why? Cause I don't have a case to offer...
>.>

[Beyond_Birthday]

I think with Isacc equaling obv scum, a scum buddy is most likely to hammer.

I'll actually

Vote Seraphim

primarily for that.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Hmmm, I got simul-posted.

Was I just seriously bandwagoned to L-1 in less than an hour? I would highly suggest someone unvote. Then, I will claim.

The votes on me are almost all bullcrap.

KoC, why do you want me to claim so badly?
MafiaSSK, same question.
B_B, answer my question above.

Objection! Badgering the witness. (Sorry, just got done with that game. 'Tis fun.)

Seriously, impatient much?

MafiaSSK just outed himself as scum. Congrats.

Unvote
Vote: MafiaSSK

B_B, hammering obv scum is not a scumtell. Why are you acting like it is? Do you agree or disagree with SSK's vote on me?

I want madeofphail's reaction to the current events.

Agreeing or disagreeing isn't as important as making a vote on someone for your own reasons. I'm considering the law of energy state here where I don't care how you reach a conclusion, but the fact remains that this conclusion is reached. If you flip town, then I'll probably question those on your bandwagon, but since your actions have not indicated anything, and your hammer of Isacc, though correct play, is a very pro-scum move (individually), I am going to call it into question. You're slight paranoia at attacking, what you perceive as a weaker case and trying to set up a situation of a house dividing upon itself (getting me to attack SSK?) actually bothers me more than the reason for my initial vote. So, I'm keeping my vote on you.

Changed due to claim:

Unvote

vote Knight

for incorrectly labeling scum's motives. Scum rarely, if ever, wish to prolong a day, particularly on something as easily proven/disproven as the innocent child claim. Therefore, you look like your trying to talk a townie into quick lynching with your "because it's bullcrap" argument.

SSK's theory is very radical and probably bullshit. Verges on bastard modding, but he's right. It isn't impossible.

Madeofphail: Coaching?

Hm... if ssk is mafia, Knight is likely mafia.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Side note: As indicated, I'd be willing to vote SSK if a more formal case is presented and I agree with it/SSK's response to it is pathetic.

[Beyond_Birthday]

madeofphail - I unvoted Seraphim, not SSK. Stop trying to misrep me on that.

BB - trying to bus your buddy and then line up lynches, much?
By your logic

Hm... if ssk is mafia, Knight is likely mafia.

it makes more sense for you to be voting SSK, since you can't extrapolate SSK's alignment from mine, but apparently you can extrapolate mine from SSK's. So why aren't you voting SSK instead of me?

THe case against SSK is voting without reasoning, and then using a wide variety of bullcrap reasons to justify voting with no reasoning, and often jumping on bandwagons ("a vote with no reasoning is a gut vote" "it's my meta").

If I think SSK and Knight could be mafia together, then it doesn't matter which I vote because they hold equal suspicion. I didn't explicitly say this, I admit. However, I disagree with the SSK lynch and find you more suspicious.

If I were lining up lynch, then wouldn't I have said: lynch X and if not scum, lynch y?"

If I were to lynch my other scum buddy to lynch another person, I'd (probably) be the only scum left, which is a terrible play after "bussing" my buddy yesterday. (Since Isacc isn't my buddy, I obviously didn't bus him, just felt like making this directly TO Knight.)

[Beyond_Birthday]

Not really. My implication of "If ssk is mafia, Knight is likely mafia" is indicating that the reverse is true:

"If Knight is mafia, ssk is likely mafia."

[Beyond_Birthday]

Nullify my earlier statement. I highly doubt scum bus scum when two (probably) are left, this early.

Unvote

I'll consider his response when he returns and see what I think of him then.

[Beyond_Birthday]

I have nothing useful to say as anything I thought of has been said. This is mostly a check in post.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Best play perhaps?

Vote MafiaSSK

Fair thee well. And to be honest, I'm in a bad mood...

[Beyond_Birthday]

I've got nothing.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Knight, while it is true I'm insane enough to do exactly as planned, I was blocked.

However, I feel you're scum, and won't discount that as a possibility. So, shall we decide who is scum now?

Of the remaining players, here is a list of scummiest to least scummy. Not, Mine is much more general than a simple 1-5 list.

Beyond_Birthday-cleared

Has no clue?
caf19
madeofphail
Trumpet of Doom
Knight of Cydonia

haha...yeah...

Okay, here's the issue: I really need to reread. So, I will do that mmm....today at some point. let's say in the next 10 hours after all other affairs are in order. Hopefully, I can make a case, and I will be more productive than I have been. Sorry for my lack of full force in this game.

[Beyond_Birthday]

1) Isacc's claim does not preclude the existence of another player who targeted Magnus. Even if he's telling the truth, "B_B=scum" is a non sequitur.

2) If B_B's lying, he's got some serious cojones. Especially since he claimed first, and we should be nowhere near lylo - there is no good reason for scum to claim unprovoked at this point.

1) Would be logical, normally. However, B_B's lie about me targeting Magnus results in the only logical conclusion being that he is scum (or town lying, but in this situation I see no reason for town to lie).

2) Well, it sure seems to be working predictably. You're all jumping on his bandwagon quite fast, doncha think? Seems like it wasn't such a crazy strategy to pull off.


If you guys really think I am the more likely scum here, I think you should consider BB's play end of the last day.

Post 339, he jumps on the Walnut wagon with pretty much no reasoning for his actual vote. He posts a lot of speculation about who would be scummy based on the flip, but never actually justifies his case.

Commandeering a mislynch much?

In other news, in the event that I am mislynched, I would like to note:

1) Take a look at MadeofPhail. Starts of wanting to discuss night actions (DING DING DING) and then jumps pretty quick on this wagon.

2) I'd watch out for Caf19. Notice his last post says I am the right lynch, but he fails to actually vote me, and asks others' opinions first. Seems like he wants to make sure he's getting on the popular wagon before he commits.

3) MafiaSSK is another Walnut wagon surprise. I don't really think he ever gave any explanation at all for that vote.

4) Nocmen is obvtown by 382.

Yeah I know, early to be giving "If I get lynched" sentiments, but I am going to be gone all of tomorrow, and most of sunday.

I think the most interesting part of this post is his reference to my earlier post on the Walnut flip, which at this moment I am sure is 100% correct.

1. MadeofPhail is likely town, but soft doubt is cast on it as Isacc=caught GF.
2. Soft doubt on Caf19. I am 100% certain one of MoP and Caf is scum.
3. Defends MafiaSSK
4. Nocman is obvtown.

Confirmed:
3. MafiaSSK IS TOWN
4. Nocman IS TOWN.


However, in this post he attacks me for my thoughts on Walnut, which again, I believe is 100% correct.

I said:

"If Walnut is scum, Phily is 30% likely to be scum.
Magnus' forgetfulness to include Phily and his near passive play in reference to.
If Walnut isn't scum, I would suggest Caf19 is scum with Magnus Orion.
Magnus found, in his post on the last page, a question Caf asked that he called scummy. Caf never responded and Magnus never pursued it. This is scummy on both.
A third partner could be Dourgrim, but this is far less likely. (But a more likely third partner to those two than anyone else.)
If Magnus did coach Caf as my last post alludes to as a possibility, it could be infered that he reminded Caf of something along the lines of: Don't suspect Dour without reason, even though you know he's scum."

I think that Caf19 is very likely scum. As is Knight, but we must be careful here. 1 misvote by town could lead to game over.

Thoughts?

[Beyond_Birthday]

Because, I find it odd that Isacc would suspect you while simultaneously discrediting my post UNLESS I was right about something. I think you're the roleblocker, which is why the mafia godfather wanted to protect you most of all.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Madeofphail=actually, misread the first post. Saw "Go" and thought GF. My bad. Anyway, I will be gone until Tuesday afternoon. I apologize for the inconvenience.

Side note: Isacc cleared two confirmed (via death) townies. It would make sense that one of the mafia members is in the four mentioned.

[Beyond_Birthday]

I don't think your suspicion of me clears you KoC. In fact, it condemns you. You could have passed over me as "assumed town." But you've "known" there is a roleblocker, but doubted my claim? Further, you don't understand why I'm still alive? You haven't gotten a roleblocker notice, which is why I'm alive. You would have to die or be roleblocked to make your claim plausible.

{b}Pseudovote KOC{/b} <--intended!

Go ahead, talk your way out of this one.

[Beyond_Birthday]

But you said that opposite. You drew suspicion on me. And it wasn't until suspicion was drawn on you that you suggested that I was innocent and presented "proof" of this. Since I am alive, you might when the town. You should definitely win me and with only one person not willing to lynch a mafia member, the mafia is safe.

I don't think we should vote you yet, but I put my vote as a "pseudo vote" in good faith.
I know better than to rush into things.

Now, again, explain why attack me? Why draw attention to the fact I'm alive and then say I was scummy? Both are obvious doctor tells. Too obvious and not mere breadcrumb. It really seems odd and unusual to tell mafia "I'm doctor" unless you're faking it. Especially for a player of your experience.

[Beyond_Birthday]

"obvious doctor tells" was a test, and instead of pass/fail, you kind of side swiped me there. I guess that *is* passing it though...

I don't like you a whole lot at the moment, and getting offensive to someone you think is town isn't helping. Truly, you give me too little credit.

[Beyond_Birthday]

I have nothing to add at the moment, so bump while I give Knight more time to respond.

[Beyond_Birthday]

madeofphail, what do you think? Do you agree with the suspicion of KoC? If not, who do you think is scum?

I would enjoy madeofphail's response.

[Beyond_Birthday]

I am getting depressed with the speed of this game.

[Beyond_Birthday]

I agree with Caf. The most logical thing to do is to narrow our choices by PoE and then pick the scummiest person of them. If someone "eliminated" is uber scummy, don't eliminate them and put them in the running. It's the best move, and I have no objections right now.

[Beyond_Birthday]

I'm sick of stagnation. Win or lose (right now)

Vote Knight

It's time to progress forward now.

[Beyond_Birthday]

caf, while I see your point about that...if he hammers, it's over right?

[Beyond_Birthday]

EBWOP: Assumes Phail is mafia and knight is town.

[Beyond_Birthday]

I think that KoC is town and I can't possibly vote twice, so I'm in limbo still.

----------
I have an idea, let's kick it up a notch.
*BAM!*

[Beyond_Birthday]

Mistype
I think KoC is scum.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Well Magnus, but you're glad we were on the same team this time. So easy by the end...
Thanks Kairyuu for a good game!