Mini 767: Cubic Mafia (Game Over!)

[Beyond_Birthday]

Hmmm, I got simul-posted.

Was I just seriously bandwagoned to L-1 in less than an hour? I would highly suggest someone unvote. Then, I will claim.

The votes on me are almost all bullcrap.

KoC, why do you want me to claim so badly?
MafiaSSK, same question.
B_B, answer my question above.

Objection! Badgering the witness. (Sorry, just got done with that game. 'Tis fun.)

Seriously, impatient much?

MafiaSSK just outed himself as scum. Congrats.

Unvote
Vote: MafiaSSK

B_B, hammering obv scum is not a scumtell. Why are you acting like it is? Do you agree or disagree with SSK's vote on me?

I want madeofphail's reaction to the current events.

Agreeing or disagreeing isn't as important as making a vote on someone for your own reasons. I'm considering the law of energy state here where I don't care how you reach a conclusion, but the fact remains that this conclusion is reached. If you flip town, then I'll probably question those on your bandwagon, but since your actions have not indicated anything, and your hammer of Isacc, though correct play, is a very pro-scum move (individually), I am going to call it into question. You're slight paranoia at attacking, what you perceive as a weaker case and trying to set up a situation of a house dividing upon itself (getting me to attack SSK?) actually bothers me more than the reason for my initial vote. So, I'm keeping my vote on you.

Changed due to claim:

Unvote

vote Knight

for incorrectly labeling scum's motives. Scum rarely, if ever, wish to prolong a day, particularly on something as easily proven/disproven as the innocent child claim. Therefore, you look like your trying to talk a townie into quick lynching with your "because it's bullcrap" argument.

SSK's theory is very radical and probably bullshit. Verges on bastard modding, but he's right. It isn't impossible.

Madeofphail: Coaching?

Hm... if ssk is mafia, Knight is likely mafia.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Side note: As indicated, I'd be willing to vote SSK if a more formal case is presented and I agree with it/SSK's response to it is pathetic.

[Knight of Cydonia]

madeofphail - I unvoted Seraphim, not SSK. Stop trying to misrep me on that.

BB - trying to bus your buddy and then line up lynches, much?
By your logic

Hm... if ssk is mafia, Knight is likely mafia.

it makes more sense for you to be voting SSK, since you can't extrapolate SSK's alignment from mine, but apparently you can extrapolate mine from SSK's. So why aren't you voting SSK instead of me?

THe case against SSK is voting without reasoning, and then using a wide variety of bullcrap reasons to justify voting with no reasoning, and often jumping on bandwagons ("a vote with no reasoning is a gut vote" "it's my meta").

[Beyond_Birthday]

madeofphail - I unvoted Seraphim, not SSK. Stop trying to misrep me on that.

BB - trying to bus your buddy and then line up lynches, much?
By your logic

Hm... if ssk is mafia, Knight is likely mafia.

it makes more sense for you to be voting SSK, since you can't extrapolate SSK's alignment from mine, but apparently you can extrapolate mine from SSK's. So why aren't you voting SSK instead of me?

THe case against SSK is voting without reasoning, and then using a wide variety of bullcrap reasons to justify voting with no reasoning, and often jumping on bandwagons ("a vote with no reasoning is a gut vote" "it's my meta").

If I think SSK and Knight could be mafia together, then it doesn't matter which I vote because they hold equal suspicion. I didn't explicitly say this, I admit. However, I disagree with the SSK lynch and find you more suspicious.

If I were lining up lynch, then wouldn't I have said: lynch X and if not scum, lynch y?"

If I were to lynch my other scum buddy to lynch another person, I'd (probably) be the only scum left, which is a terrible play after "bussing" my buddy yesterday. (Since Isacc isn't my buddy, I obviously didn't bus him, just felt like making this directly TO Knight.)

[Knight of Cydonia]

You didn't "not explicitly say it" you didn't say anything like it.
You said "if ssk is mafia, Knight is likely mafia". You're now trying to change that into "SSK and Knight are mafia" which is an entirely different thing.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Not really. My implication of "If ssk is mafia, Knight is likely mafia" is indicating that the reverse is true:

"If Knight is mafia, ssk is likely mafia."

[caf19]

"If Knight is mafia, ssk is likely mafia."

I don't understand why you didn't say it this way round in the first place, as it would have been far more consonant with the rest of that post.

Anyway: KoC, do you approve or disapprove of an SSK lynch?

[Knight of Cydonia]

I approve of it, I'm willing to hammer it, but if the rest of the town wants more discussion, I'll wait.

[MafiaSSK]

I approve of it, I'm willing to hammer it, but if the rest of the town wants more discussion, I'll wait.

Summarization of case plz?

[Knight of Cydonia]

- Ignoring any accusations levelled at you, or worse, OMGUSing against them (see caf19)
- Giving absolutely no reasoning behind your votes, then when pressed claiming those votes were based on "gut" - so why didn't you just say that beforehand, pray tell?
- Bandwagon hopping as it suits you
- Using the meta defence to justify the fact you've been scummy all game.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Nullify my earlier statement. I highly doubt scum bus scum when two (probably) are left, this early.

Unvote

I'll consider his response when he returns and see what I think of him then.

[MafiaSSK]

- Ignoring any accusations levelled at you, or worse, OMGUSing against them (see caf19)
- Giving absolutely no reasoning behind your votes, then when pressed claiming those votes were based on "gut" - so why didn't you just say that beforehand, pray tell?
- Bandwagon hopping as it suits you
- Using the meta defence to justify the fact you've been scummy all game.

-Caf19 wasn't an OMGUS
-Because it developed right after the game started
-Bandwagons have a purpose. The person getting lynched is usually scummy enough
-It's because it's true

[Seraphim]

I wonder...I need to look back at BB's play but I wonder if D2 was a scum gambit to get BB cleared...?

Unvote

I don't think I like the SSK wagon...

[caf19]

I wonder...I need to look back at BB's play but I wonder if D2 was a scum gambit to get BB cleared...?

It's certainly possible. I don't think it's likely though. At the start of D2 scum were having a good time; there were 3 townies and no scum down, and nobody was really suspecting Isacc. I don't know why scum would try to pull off such a dangerous gambit when they probably would have been better off not rocking the boat. Have you seen any evidence that makes it more likely to be true, or is it just a speculation?

I still like the SSK wagon.

[madeofphail]

Seraphim, why don't you like the SSK wagon? He has substantial evidence against him, and he hasn't really provided a substantial defense(at least in my eyes.).

His defense was:

- Ignoring any accusations levelled at you, or worse, OMGUSing against them (see caf19)
- Giving absolutely no reasoning behind your votes, then when pressed claiming those votes were based on "gut" - so why didn't you just say that beforehand, pray tell?
- Bandwagon hopping as it suits you
- Using the meta defence to justify the fact you've been scummy all game.

-Caf19 wasn't an OMGUS
-Because it developed right after the game started
-Bandwagons have a purpose. The person getting lynched is usually scummy enough
-It's because it's true

On his first point, I'm not going to argue whether or not a vote was OMGUS at this point in time.

on the matter of the second point, voting is power, an using that power flippantly based on gut feeling doesnt help the town very much. It makes it so much easier for the scum to quicklynch. So, by doing this, you are being a useful tool for the scum.

On the matter of the third: Yes, bandwagons serve a purpose. They get people lynched far too quickly, such that it usually ends us being a mislynch. You argue that the person is usually scummy enough, and so they are justifiable. Of course the person has to have some dirt on them, after all, if they didn't no one would vote them.

On the matter of the Fourth point: I have stated before that Ido not support meta as a defense. If that becomes an acceptable way to defend oneself, ll sorts of havoc would be wrought on this site. We would have horrible people passing off scumtells as randomness. We would have people saying that wagoning is just their style (as in your case), and so you can't build a case agains them. Or a person could refuse to play in games that they were scum in, and the after about 10 games or so, they could actually be scum, and use their meta to be unlynchable. Meta doesnt serve much of a purpose in a game.

In the game, you look at what has been posted in the game that makes a person's role in the game to be more apparent. It wouldn't make any sense to look at my first game and use a post from there to say that I am scummy here. Games are seperate, and evidence used in each game should also be seperate. In short, I am one who disdains the use of meta as a defense.

I still like the idea of Lynching mafiassk, at least until someone scummier shows up on the radar.

[Seraphim]

Hmmm. I don't like the SSK wagon because it built too fast and it seems too easy. I guess I'm willing to lynch SSK, I just don't like the wagon.

No, there's no evidence, caf, that's just a gut reaction. You are probably right...it's just the fact that Isacc posted directly after BB's post claiming watcher.

[Beyond_Birthday]

I have nothing useful to say as anything I thought of has been said. This is mostly a check in post.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I'm going to be absent from the site from the 23rd to the 31st, having had a holiday sprung on me by my incredibly inconvenient family. However, I

might

be able to get on once during that time.

[MafiaSSK]

I wonder...I need to look back at BB's play but I wonder if D2 was a scum gambit to get BB cleared...?

Unvote

I don't think I like the SSK wagon...

Good thoughts.

[Seraphim]

Hmm. This game kinda slowed down.

SSK, if you're not scum, who do you think is scum?

[MafiaSSK]

Hmm. This game kinda slowed down.

SSK, if you're not scum, who do you think is scum?

caf.

[Seraphim]

Any particular reason?

[Knight of Cydonia]

"Gut". Or, "no reason apart from not being my(SSK's) scumbuddy".

[MafiaSSK]

Any particular reason?

Aggressiveness.

[caf19]

There's something in 472 that is making me doubt myself...

This is really really really stupid. The mod pm'd me to say that Seraphim is indeed mod-confirmed town. This is mod interaction with the game by not letting me believe in my own theories. Fine though,

Unvote

.

Also, I'm a VT.

I was assuming that SSK had made up the story about the mod PMing him, as part of his scum-charade. However, why would the mod confirm that someone is town to a scumbag who already knows that Sera is town?

MOD

, did you really send that PM?

The mod is not a player in this game, and therefore cannot answer this question. Any communications between myself and another player are classified. Please keep any communication between the mod and yourself private.