Mini 738: The Town of Merrin - Game Over

Dourgrim · Post Post #1575 (ISO) » Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:16 am

I linked the scene flavour above. Find

anywhere in it

where it says which kill was performed by which role. Besides, both of you are ignoring the part of the scene where the Mod

does

says that the second kill was made by "the evil presence" to guard qwints' body. Seriously, find

any Mod-written post anywhere in this game

that says who got killed by what role, and I'll take back my accusation. I don't see why we shouldn't read potential clues out of flavour text... it's there for a reason.

myk: why

wouldn't

scum kill ting=)? They eventually have to kill everyone to win... maybe they thought ting=) was being quiet because he was a PR trying to avoid attention, who knows?

xtoxm: no, I'm a VT. Like I said above, though, I can't be cleared without wasting an investigation by the Cop, so I'm a logical lynch choice. I won't fight it, but I do think the rest of the Town should consider the SL thing

and

definitely have a plan for what happens when I flip VT. Other than that, there's nothing I can do.

Xtoxm · Post Post #1576 (ISO) » Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:33 am

Just thought of a reason to doubt BB's inno's, Ninja's.

Xtoxm · Post Post #1577 (ISO) » Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:44 am

Another had been killed by the elusive threat to Merrin, but ting=) was not the only victim that night.

This implies whoever killed Ting was anti-town. Implies SL is anti-town.

Dourgrim · Post Post #1578 (ISO) » Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:59 am

I agree, although I still think you're looking at the kills backward (see below). However, the net result is the same:

both

kills were made by anti-Town sources.

Personally, I think SL the SK killed Goat and the scum killed ting=). Seriously, is there anywhere in this game where the Mod says who got killed by what sort of killer, or are we making inferences based on the claims of the players? SKs LIE, just like SCUM LIE. Of COURSE the SK wouldn't admit to making the Goat kill, because it doesn't look like a Vig kill, it looks like a SK kill.

And, for the record, there's absolutely no reason to dismiss flavor text out of hand without at least considering it as a potential source of information. You might decide it's not strong enough evidence to follow for now, but you should at least consider the chances of its validity.

mykonian · Post Post #1579 (ISO) » Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:16 am

Haven't you read Klouds stories before? It was part of the reason I inned for this game. And no, no matter how gruesome the death is, I don't think he tells us something with it

PJ. · Post Post #1580 (ISO) » Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:31 am

MYK claimed deputy? Ok I have a new plan of action..

Unvote:Vote:Dourgrim

Dourgrim · Post Post #1581 (ISO) » Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:37 am

No, I haven't read kloud's stories before. He is definitely a gifted writer, I agree with that... but it's not his

stories

we're talking about here, it's his

game flavour

that I'm referring to. Are you willing to

guarantee

that the flavour text has no real information included in it? I'm not... which is why I suggest that the idea be given consideration.

The point is, however, that there's

nothing

that proves which role/player killed which victim, so you can't assume that SL is telling the truth... and really, who's going to CC to disprove that kind of claim? All you know is that SL has admitted to making a kill independently and that she says she killed ting=). Consider this hypothetical situation: if you were a SK trying to pose as a pro-Town Vig, would you admit to killing Goatrevolt, considering how pro-Town he looked while he was alive? Me either.

mykonian · Post Post #1582 (ISO) » Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:40 am

I know that a vig claim can be highly usefull to a SK.

And the story part: it is not the first time that someone dies gruesomely. It probably has more to do with Klouds style then roles, plus that most mods are busy giving as little information away as possible.

GIEFF · Post Post #1583 (ISO) » Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:48 am

ting was "pumped full of lead," i.e. shot. That matches a vig more than an SK.

I have reasons for suspecting SL as SK, but flavor is not among them.

I would prefer, in order, a mykonian lynch, and then a Dourgrim lynch. How common is a deputy in a mini normal?

Dourgrim · Post Post #1584 (ISO) » Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:55 am

Like I said, I'm willing to be lynched to help the Town, but PLEASE don't be dumb about it: come up with a plan of attack if/when my death confirms my claim.

mykonian · Post Post #1585 (ISO) » Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:58 am

GIEFF wrote:ting was "pumped full of lead," i.e. shot. That matches a vig more than an SK.

I have reasons for suspecting SL as SK, but flavor is not among them.

I would prefer, in order, a mykonian lynch, and then a Dourgrim lynch. How common is a deputy in a mini normal?

No idea, never been one.

Did see a backup blocker in a semi open, but that was all. (C9++)

Xtoxm · Post Post #1586 (ISO) » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:01 am

GIEFF wrote:ting was "pumped full of lead," i.e. shot. That matches a vig more than an SK.

I have reasons for suspecting SL as SK, but flavor is not among them.

I would prefer, in order, a mykonian lynch, and then a Dourgrim lynch. How common is a deputy in a mini normal?

Not often. That's not the point. Framer is rare too.

Myk reads town. And you said the claim fits, too. Why the hate?

GIEFF · Post Post #1587 (ISO) » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:08 am

I thought it scummy that mykonian instantly assumed Panzer to be town.

Possible town-explanation: mykonian is the deputy (this explanation did not exist before)

Possible scum-explanation: mykonian KNOWS Panzer is town, because mykonian is scum.

I went through 5 finished mini normal games, and found 1 Framer role, 1 Nurse role (backup doc), and no deputy roles. The fact that there was a nurse makes me think deputy is at least possible, though.

If I were lynching based solely on role-claims and PR-reports, it would be Dourgrim, but I think mykonian is scummier than Dourgrim.

mykonian · Post Post #1588 (ISO) » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:12 am

you have thought me scummy for a long time, GIEFF, everytime for an other reason. I would like to know what the reason is now.

GIEFF · Post Post #1589 (ISO) » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:27 am

Here is my plan for if dourgrim flips town:

Night actions

spring shoots Sensfan.
Panzer investigates mykonian.
B_B tracks Xtoxm (to test doc claim).
Xtoxm flips a coin to protect Panzer or B_B.
I assume maf will kill Xtoxm - if not, things get a lot more complicated.

Following day

If Sensfan does not get shot, we lynch spring.
If Sensfan flips scum (and we haven't won yet), we lynch spring. This would leave B_B (tracker), Panzer (cop), GIEFF (townie), and mykonian (deputy). Likely one kill that night (probably me), and mykonian would be the best lynch choice in lylo.
If Panzer gets a guilty on mykonian, we lynch mykonian. If we haven't won yet, lynch spring in lylo.
If Sensfan is town and mykonian comes up inno, we lynch spring. If we haven't won yet, Panzer investigates B_B, B_B tracks mykonian, and we will have to choose between godfather-mykonian or faketracker-B_B.

Does that make sense?

SensFan · Post Post #1590 (ISO) » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:38 am

GIEFF wrote:Here is my plan for if dourgrim flips town:

Night actions

spring shoots Sensfan.
Panzer investigates mykonian.
B_B tracks Xtoxm (to test doc claim).
Xtoxm flips a coin to protect Panzer or B_B.
I assume maf will kill Xtoxm - if not, things get a lot more complicated.

Following day

If Sensfan does not get shot, we lynch spring.
If Sensfan flips scum (and we haven't won yet), we lynch spring. This would leave B_B (tracker), Panzer (cop), GIEFF (townie), and mykonian (deputy). Likely one kill that night (probably me), and mykonian would be the best lynch choice in lylo.

If Panzer gets a guilty on mykonian, we lynch mykonian. If we haven't won yet, lynch spring in lylo.

If Sensfan is town and mykonian comes up inno, we lynch spring. If we haven't won yet, Panzer investigates B_B, B_B tracks mykonian, and we will have to choose between godfather-mykonian or faketracker-B_B.

Does that make sense?

I guess, though B_B can't be confirmed if Xtoxm dies.

Dourgrim · Post Post #1591 (ISO) » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:43 am

GIEFF wrote:Here is my plan for if dourgrim flips town:

<snipped by Dourgrim>

I assume maf will kill Xtoxm - if not, things get a lot more complicated.

<snipped again>

Does that make sense?

You need to have a more comprehensive plan than "things get a lot more complicated," especially now that you've said that in the thread

where the scum can read it.

I mean, come ON!

And, this is all junk unless you lynch me today, yet you've said you're more comfortable with a myk lynch today and me tomorrow. Pick one scenario, work out all the kinks, and run with it. Stop trying to hedge your bets; all you're going to accomplish is confusion.

GIEFF · Post Post #1592 (ISO) » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:59 am

I feel it is optimal for maf to kill Xtoxm, and if they do not, things become easier. If Xtoxm really coin-flips (and really is doc), maf can't take the 50% chance that their kill doesn't go through at all.

If we kill Dourgrim AND maf manages to get around Xtoxm-doc to kill Panzer or B_B, then:

If Xtoxm is maf, he would kill B_B, as B_B will be tracking him (and would, conveniently, have no doc protection).
If Xtoxm is doc, then B_B's report will verify that.

Actually, now that I think about it, Xtoxm should be on B_B with more like 90% odds. If B_B dies, we know Xtoxm is fake. If B_B lives, he can confirm Xtoxm as doc, and maybe even get caught as a fake-tracker if Xtoxm didn't really save B_B. If we set it up this way, then if Xtoxm and B_B are both town and visiting each other, the night-kill would likely be Panzer, as he is probably the most clear out of all of us.

If Sens flipped town, then it would be SL and mykonian, and a difficult choice for the lynch. This is the worst possible situation for the town, I think - Dourgrim and Sens BOTH being town, and Panzer getting NK'd.

springlullaby · Post Post #1593 (ISO) » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:18 am

For fuck sake, I drew it out already in 1556.

There is no possibility of 100% proof plan because of the frigging numbers. The more people talk about it the more it reveal to scum, the more room for wifom.

And GIEFF, is there a reason you want Xtoxm and mykonian to be checked, but not BB?

GIEFF · Post Post #1594 (ISO) » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:23 am

B_B's reports successfully reported tracks on 2 vanilla townies; without any possible buddies left, that is not easy to fake. I believe him a lot more than I do Xtoxm or mykonian. Xtoxm could easily have NK'd to set up a doc claim, and mykonian is mykonian.

SensFan · Post Post #1595 (ISO) » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:27 am

GIEFF wrote:Actually, now that I think about it, Xtoxm should be on B_B with more like 90% odds.

[...]

This is the worst possible situation for the town, I think - Dourgrim and Sens BOTH being town, and Panzer getting NK'd.

Ummm...if worst-case scenario involves Panzer being lynched, then why are you saying Xtoxm should be protecting B_B?

springlullaby · Post Post #1596 (ISO) » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:28 am

What about the 10% scum on Sensfan then? So you think Sensfan is vanilla?

Anyway,

I'd like sensfan lynched

and dour vigged.

Do it now already.

GIEFF · Post Post #1597 (ISO) » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:29 am

It makes sense to lynch the person more likely to be scum, so we have that information during the night-phase, right? Doesn't B_B's report mean Dourgrim is more likely scum than Sensfan?

Xtoxm · Post Post #1598 (ISO) » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:31 am

Mm, this day is ready to end, so the end should be hastened. I don't really care which of the two, the other would just be NKed. I'll change if you want.

GIEFF · Post Post #1599 (ISO) » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:32 am

I think Dourgrim should be it.

If Dourgrim flips maf, should SL still shoot Sens?