Mini 738: The Town of Merrin - Game Over

[SensFan]

Sens I see as going either way, depends how big his ego is.

So yeah, this is the umpteenth time you've tried to attack my character in this game.
I mentionned that you attacked my character in another game.
You told me you only attacked my character in that game because you were Scum.
This is the umpteenth time you've tried to attack my character in this game.

You are Scum.

[springlullaby]

Sens I see as going either way, depends how big his ego is.

So yeah, this is the umpteenth time you've tried to attack my character in this game.
I mentionned that you attacked my character in another game.
You told me you only attacked my character in that game because you were Scum.
This is the umpteenth time you've tried to attack my character in this game.

You are Scum.

No, I'm not attacking your character, and I certainly am not insulting you.

Tell me, is there are reason you are contributing nothing apart from whining?

If you are town and think me scum, yours is the highway to righteousness, and being beyond this. But no, you are choosing to offer nothing of value. What do you propose town do now?

[GIEFF]

SL, are you OK with shooting mykonian instead of Sensfan?

[springlullaby]

It's not a "shit case" SL. Of course I understand why you're saying that: because you can't refute a single thing I've said regarding that case so far, and so you're reverting to the

same playstyle you've used all game, rudeness and vulgarity

, in an effort to trivialize the points I've made. So, for the sake of argument, let's review, shall we?

• You can't refute the "SK innocent when not killing" point because I linked you to an example of where it's been used in a game I designed, and because other players have agreed that it's a realistic possibility (or perhaps even probability, although I don't know that for certain).

1. This way lies ad hominem. 'rudeness and vulgarity'? Really? This is such a pathetic accusation. If you truly take offence to any of my address to you please go complain to the mod and I will respect arbitrage. In meantime be assured that I'm taking your ad hominem for what they are, floundering from scum who has nothing of interest to say.

2.

Fallacy

. Just because the role exist doesn't mean I'm it, I have nothing to disprove in the first place. This is such a crappy argument you can only be scum for it.

You can't refute the flavor text that explicitly says both kills were made by "the evil presence." And, since you've taken credit for one of those kills, you can't really explain it without outing yourself as being anti-Town.

Lie.

Not once in the flavor does Kloud mention an 'evil presence' in relation to ting's death.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 70#1553870
In fact, as far as the flavor goes describe Goat's death as far more gruesome and 'evil' contrasted to ting'death.

You claim that reading into flavor is a "shit case," but then rely on the flavor of a report on SensFan as your reasoning to want him lynched and me "vigged" instead of vice versa.[/list] You're scum, I have no doubt anymore.

False.

1. Your case based on flavor sucked because it was a lie in the first place. 2.The flavor is only part of the reason I think Sens should be lynched and you vigged. I've explained it, you voting me why it was suggested that sens should be lynched means that you are prolly not NK immune.

I'm not making emotional pleas, by the way, nor am I trying to drag the day down. If I were, I'd be trying to stay alive and I'm not. Note that, as convinced as I am of you being scum, I'm STILL not pushing for your lynch... that's because lynching me is correct Town play IMHO. You all have reason to suspect me, I can't be cleared without wasting an outed Cop's investigation, and I'm a VT, which makes me less useful to the Town than a PR.

Is that another round of 'look i'm so willing to die gimme town point'?
If you are not fighting your lynch, what the hell are you arguing for.

[SensFan]

SL, are you OK with shooting

mykonian

SL instead of Sensfan?

Fixed.

[springlullaby]

SL, are you OK with shooting mykonian instead of Sensfan?

I don't think it is a good decision but ok.

[GIEFF]

SL shooting SL does us no good. We'll likely lynch her tomorrow anyway. Better to shoo mykonian.

[GIEFF]

Assuming Dourgrim is the lynch, here is who wants SL to target the following:

Night-kill mykonian: GIEFF, B_B, Panzer
Night-kill SL: Sensfan
Night-kill Sensfan: SL

Is that right? Dourgrim, mykonian, and Xtoxm - who do you want SL to night-kill?

[springlullaby]

Assuming Dourgrim is the lynch, here is who wants SL to target the following:

Night-kill mykonian: GIEFF, B_B, Panzer
Night-kill SL: Sensfan
Night-kill Sensfan: SL

Is that right? Dourgrim, mykonian, and Xtoxm - who do you want SL to night-kill?

What is that?

[GIEFF]

That is "voting" for your night-kill.

I want you to kill mykonian, as do Panzer and B_B:

Actually...SL should shoot mykonian.

Lynch: Dourgrim; shoot Mykonian.

[springlullaby]

Ah ok.

[mykonian]

I would like spring to shoot herself. If she is not the SK, we don't have to think about that anymore, we'll have only one scum to take care about after that, and that can hardly be not a win.

If she doesn't kill herself, after we asked it, she is confirmed scum, and after that, same reasoning goes. With the power we have in town, we can hardly lose.

The only thing that could really hurt us, is if scum are going to shoot our precious powerroles, with two shots this night. That would mean we probably can find one, but after that, we can get in several ways a lylo situation, contrary to an auto win situation that appears mostly.

So, we need to be sure we have only one scum to think about before we get there. And because spring is actually our biggest chance at finding scum (the only person that can be SK), and lynches are valuable, because we can talk about it, makes the plan to make Spring kill herself the absolute best.

[kloud1516]

Vote Count XX

SensFan

(2): Xtoxm, mykonian

springlullaby

(2): SensFan, Dourgrim

Dourgrim

(2): Panzerjager, Beyond_Birthday

Panzerjager

(1): GIEFF

Not Voting:

springlullaby

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

Please notify me if there is a discrepancy in the list above

[GIEFF]

I see your point, mykonian. Her power role is useless after tonight anyways, and yours may not be. And if we lynch her, we cannot also kill Dourgrim; her shooting herself allows us to kill 2 people.


Consider my vote switched to SL shooting herself.

If that happened, then tonight, B_B can track Xtoxm, and Panzer can investigate mykonian. Me and Sens would be the other two still alive going into the night phase.

Xtoxm should protect B_B 100%, as if Xtoxm is scum, he can't try to kill B_B, or he would implicate himself, and can't kill another, as B_B is tracking him. This assures our most valuable PR (assuming invest-immune is more likely than tracker-immune) will be alive tomorrow.



If Panzer is mafia, he will probably kill Xtoxm. He can't fake a guilty report, as we will still have a mislynch (5 players left), so he would clear mykonian (who would be clear with Panzer report no matter Panzer's alignment). We would then lynch Sens or me, and that would leave an ambiguous 3-way lylo.

If Xtoxm is mafia, he will no-kill. A no-kill doesn't necessarily mean Xtoxm is mafia, but Xtoxm cannot kill with this PR plan, unless he is tracker-immune.

If B_B is mafia, he will probably kill Xtoxm, although he could kill Panzer. Killing Panzer wouldn't make a lot of sense, because mykonian would become the cop, and could get off an investigation of B_B that night due to Xtoxm-protection. And if B_B is investigation-immune, he will probably kill Xtoxm or Sens.

If mykonian is mafia, he will kill Panzer. B_B will clear Xtoxm, and he already has semi-clears on me and Sens, so mykonian will be lynched (and if we are somehow wrong, we will have an ambiguous 3-way lylo). If mykonian is investigation-immune, he will probably kill Xtoxm, and then B_B the following night, but I think he would get lynched before two of either me, Sens, or Panzer do.

If Sens is mafia, he will probably kill Xtoxm or Panzer.


In order, I trust the following claims from most to least:

Panzer, BB, Xtoxm, mykonian, Sens.

I think the biggest flaw with the above plan is letting Sens-scum get away with a kill - is it worth having BB track Sens tonight instead of Xtoxm? B_B being scum would also make this plan pretty bad, but the odds that either Dourgrim, mykonian, or Xtoxm is scum dwarfs the chance that B_B is.

[SensFan]

If Xtoxm is mafia, he will no-kill. A no-kill doesn't necessarily mean Xtoxm is mafia, but Xtoxm cannot kill with this PR plan, unless he is tracker-immune.

If Xtoxm is Mafia, he loses, barring a Scum Power. If he is seen targetting the dead body, he's busted. If he's not seen targetting anyone, he's busted.

I think the biggest flaw with the above plan is letting Sens-scum get away with a kill - is it worth having BB track Sens tonight instead of Xtoxm?

For me to be Scum, the following both need to be true:
*SensScum did not make the kill when it was him and ZillaRB alive
*SensScum blatantly and prematurely hammered ZillaBuddy, not knowing if she would claim her way out of it

[mykonian]

I think it is. Personally, I think the no kill makes Xtoxm quite believable. It would be anti-scum play, and a huge gambit.

[GIEFF]

I don't believe you when you say it was on purpose, so the second point isn't all that strong.

I think B_B should still target Xtoxm, but I'd like to hear Panzer and B_B's thoughts, firstly on whether SL should kill herself, and if so, if B_B should switch to Sens.

[GIEFF]

Also, B_B's report on Sensfan came AFTER Zilla-RB was dead. Sens is 100% clear unless he no-killed last night, but I don't see why he would do that. So really more like 80% clear.

B_B, why did you track Sensfan last night?


I would be 50% cleared (as there were probably 2 scum alive at the time I was tracked visiting nobody), but the fact that Zilla is RB means that I would probably be the one to do the killing, so I am probably more like 75% cleared.

[SensFan]

I don't believe you when you say it was on purpose, so the second point isn't all that strong.

What reason does SensScum have to lie about it?

[GIEFF]

What reason does SensScum have to lie about it?

That is a very silly question. SensScum can later say things like this to earn townie points:

You are dumb to vote without explanation.

I guess I was also dumb to hammer Zilla without expla-oh wait...

Why were the claimed Vig and claimed Doc removed, but the guy who bluntly hammered Scum out of nowhere still on the list?

Sorry, but how the fuck are you guys confirmed?
And if you're killing unconfirmed people,

why start with the one that hammered Scum out of nowhere?

I'm really not seeing the case to have me lynched/vig'd.

*I hammered the ScumRB point-blank

*I was tracked and found to do nothing, when the (presumably) only other Scum was a RB

For me to be Scum, the following both need to be true:
*SensScum did not make the kill when it was him and ZillaRB alive

*SensScum blatantly and prematurely hammered ZillaBuddy, not knowing if she would claim her way out of it

You actually would have earned these townie-points in my mind if you weren't so obviously trying to squeeze every last bit of townie out of it. I think you accidentally hammered Zilla, and lied about it. I can see both town- and scum-motivations for doing so.



But most crucial now is B_B and Panzer's input on if they agree SL should self-shoot, and if they think it makes more sense for B_B to track Sens than to track Xtoxm.

I'm also curious to hear what SL thinks about the self-vig plan.

[SensFan]

SensScum knows Zilla will flip Scum, though, and so is much better off claiming its intentional right off the bat.

And the only reason I've been bringing it up over and over again is when people start saying that I should be lynched today.

[GIEFF]

SensScum knows Zilla will flip Scum, though, and so is much better off claiming its intentional right off the bat.

Obviously, if you claimed you knew Zilla was scum right off the bat, then we would KNOW it was a bus. Saying "I am lynching Zilla right now, even though GIEFF is asking people to wait"

And the only reason I've been bringing it up over and over again is when people start saying that I should be lynched today

This is not helping your defense. Lynch-avoidance is scum's main goal, and townie's secondary goal. Trying to avoid a lynch by cashing in town-points you earned by lying does not make you any more likely to be town.


Can you explain why you were so sure Zilla was scum? When I asked you before, all you said was "gut." When did your gut kick in? Were you 75% sure Zilla was scum early in the day? Did you purposefully wait to vote her, planning out a quickhammer in advance? Did you really think that claiming your hammer was accidental would be enough to avoid getting lynched the next day if Zilla flipped town?

[SensFan]

This is not helping your defense. Lynch-avoidance is scum's main goal, and townie's secondary goal. Trying to avoid a lynch by cashing in town-points you earned by lying does not make you any more likely to be town.

When the game can be won just by looking at the 'unconfirmed' people, I think its perfectly pro-Town to point out the ridiculous things that would need to have happened for me to be Scum.

I thought Zilla was Scum.
I assumed she would claim some good Power Role.
I knew Town would quickly pussy out of the lynch.
I hammered.

[GIEFF]

When did your gut kick in? Were you 75% sure Zilla was scum early in the day? Did you purposefully wait to vote her, planning out a quickhammer in advance? Did you really think that claiming your hammer was accidental would be enough to avoid getting lynched the next day if Zilla flipped town?

[SensFan]

When did your gut kick in? Were you 75% sure Zilla was scum early in the day? Did you purposefully wait to vote her, planning out a quickhammer in advance? Did you really think that claiming your hammer was accidental would be enough to avoid getting lynched the next day if Zilla flipped town?

I honestly don't know exactly when it kicked in. I just thought she was Scum.