Mini 738: The Town of Merrin - Game Over

[GIEFF]

Was it during your intial read of the thread, when she first started posting? Or was it after qwints flipped scum?

[SensFan]

Was it during your intial read of the thread, when she first started posting? Or was it after qwints flipped scum?

Combination of the two.

[Xtoxm]

I guess SL killing Myk is fine. Don't see him as scum though. No point is asking her to self kill. We'll lynch her tomorrow if the game isn't over.

[GIEFF]

Was it during your intial read of the thread, when she first started posting? Or was it after qwints flipped scum?

Combination of the two.

Two more you still haven't answered, Sens:

Did you purposefully wait to vote her, planning out a quickhammer in advance? Did you really think that claiming your hammer was accidental would be enough to avoid getting lynched the next day if Zilla flipped town?

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I guess SL killing Myk is fine. Don't see him as scum though. No point is asking her to self kill. We'll lynch her tomorrow if the game isn't over.

If we're going to automatically lynch her anyway, why not just have her vig herself? That way, we save mykonian if he is a power role, and have the option of choosing for ourselves then with no information, instead of choosing now, and hoping SL actually goes along with it.


This also avoids the possibility of mykonian or Sens being NK-immune, which may be the case, or which spring may claim happened and try to wriggle her way out of a lynch.

[Xtoxm]

No.

[GIEFF]

If we are going to lynch SL no matter what tomorrow, how is that any different from her shooting herself?

If SL shoots mykonian, we are making that decision now, but if SL shoots herself, then we have the ability to lynch mykonian (or another) tomorrow, when both Zilla and Dourgrim's alignments are known. I would rather make the decision on the third kill with as much information as possible, and SL self-shooting allows us to do that.

[Xtoxm]

I wouldn't shoot myself. I wouldn't ask anyone else to. She should shoot who she thinks is scum. If she's SK she does whatever...

[GIEFF]

This isn't about SL, this is about the town. From SL's point of view, shooting herself is bad, even if she is vig, as she would not have the chance to hit scum. You are proposing lynching her NO MATTER WHAT tomorrow, which is effectively the same as her lynching herself, but it provides more flexibility. Do you see the point I am making? If SL refuses to shoot herself, we can just lynch her today.

[GIEFF]

EBWOP in bold:

This isn't about SL, this is about the town. From SL's point of view, shooting herself is bad, even if she is vig, as she would not have the chance to shoot scum. However, you are proposing lynching her NO MATTER WHAT tomorrow, which is effectively the same as her

shooting

herself, but it provides more flexibility. Do you see the point I am making? If SL refuses to shoot herself, we can just lynch her today.

[springlullaby]

No sugar, I'm not killing myself because it is a 100% waste of my kill and give scum one more kill in case of error.

Do realize that if I were scum I wouldn't even argue this with you lot as I would just nod to whatever, then do whatever I want afterwards anyway.

What I'm ok with:

Lynch Sens - Vig Dour
Lynch Dour - Vig mykonian
Lynch Dour - Vig Sens <-----BUT YOU BLOODY MAKE SURE BB TRACK ME

[Dourgrim]

2.

Fallacy

. Just because the role exist doesn't mean I'm it, I have nothing to disprove in the first place. This is such a crappy argument you can only be scum for it.

You can't refute the flavor text that explicitly says both kills were made by "the evil presence." And, since you've taken credit for one of those kills, you can't really explain it without outing yourself as being anti-Town.

Lie.

Not once in the flavor does Kloud mention an 'evil presence' in relation to ting's death.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 70#1553870
In fact, as far as the flavor goes describe Goat's death as far more gruesome and 'evil' contrasted to ting'death.

Another had been killed by the elusive threat to Merrin, but ting=) was not the only victim that night.

This ONE sentence says that ting=) was a victim of the elusive threat to Merrin. Is that really so hard to see?

The rest of your response is based on the above, and so I'll disregard it. However, you're right about one thing: no one's listening to me anymore anyway, so I won't bother posting anymore.

Have a great game, and remember this when I'm dead.

[GIEFF]

Do realize that if I were scum I wouldn't even argue this with you lot as I would just nod to whatever, then do whatever I want afterwards anyway.

Not true. If you were scum, you would try to convince us to change our minds, because if you just did whatever you wanted afterwards anyway, you'd get lynched. We have two non-lylo lynches, and one of them has your name on it, no matter what happens.


The town is going to make three kills before lylo; Sens, Dourgrim, and SL. Why do you care if you get shot by yourself or lynched by the town tomorrow, SL? Your kill isn't wasted, as it frees up tomorrow's lynch, which would instead be wasted on you. One person's kill for the entire town's lynch (with a lot more information to go off of based on reports and the alignment of Dour and SL), is an excellent trade.

[GIEFF]

Also, spring, what if you do hit a NK-immune target? Isn't it better to kill that person with a lynch? You say you are worried about the NK-immune problem, but shooting yourself and allowing us to kill the other two via lynches solves this problem completely.

[springlullaby]

2.

Fallacy

. Just because the role exist doesn't mean I'm it, I have nothing to disprove in the first place. This is such a crappy argument you can only be scum for it.

You can't refute the flavor text that explicitly says both kills were made by "the evil presence." And, since you've taken credit for one of those kills, you can't really explain it without outing yourself as being anti-Town.

Lie.

Not once in the flavor does Kloud mention an 'evil presence' in relation to ting's death.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 70#1553870
In fact, as far as the flavor goes describe Goat's death as far more gruesome and 'evil' contrasted to ting'death.

Another had been killed by the elusive threat to Merrin, but ting=) was not the only victim that night.

This ONE sentence says that ting=) was a victim of the elusive threat to Merrin. Is that really so hard to see?

You said 'evil', so what's your excuse for the misrep?

And:

The horrified screams of several children from a simple street corner crushed the facade of normalcy. At first, only few were drawn to the scene, murmuring in hushed whispers as they shielded the youths' eyes. As more and more people took to the streets, however, the commotion could not be contained. On that corner, which had been just as ordinary as the one's surrounding it, was now a scene of yet more carnage. Rust-hued blood stained the cobbles, splattered once-polished glass windows, and painted a nearby bench. As the teeming mass continued to grow, it was not long until someone recognized the wasted body. Littered with bullet holes, ting =)'s, corpse lay limp upon the street corner. Crows gazed upon the body from higher perches with great interest, squabbling just as much as the crowd below.

Another had been killed by the elusive threat to Merrin, but ting=) was not the only victim that night.

In the town square, another body waited silently to be discovered. As the group of deliberators filed into the open expanse silently, their eyes instantly fell upon the area just beneath the lone noose. A wooden stake jutted upward from lush greenery, standing out of place among the beautiful foliage. Upon that stake had been fastened the body of Goatrevolt, whose stomach had been torn open and stuffed full of straw. His innards had slowly begun to slide from their places, bulging outward from the gaping wound. Head hanging limply, straw fell from his mouth at random intervals, mixing with the pool of blood that had collected at his lifeless feet. The evil presence was determined to ward off any birds that threatened to disturb their fallen comrade qwints, so they had erected a scarecrow all their own.

See the placement of the sentence, it should be fucking obvious it's deliberately vague.

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Anyway. I'm done arguing too.

[GIEFF]

[quote="The Mod, IN THE DEATH SCENE YOU JUST LINKED ABOVE

Another had been killed by the elusive threat to Merrin, but ting=) was not the only victim that night.
This ONE sentence says that ting=) was a victim of the elusive threat to Merrin. Is that really so hard to see?
[/quote]

SL will not live until the end-game, nor will she be lynched today. There is no point in debating her scumminess right now.

[Xtoxm]

No Gieff. We're not lynching her today so we can use her kill to eliminate an extra person.

[GIEFF]

SL, I hope you were talking to Dour and not me. Do you see why shooting yourself is best for the town as a whole, and why it is NOT wasting a town-kill? And how it avoids the NK-immune problem you claim to be trying to avoid?

[springlullaby]

Do realize that if I were scum I wouldn't even argue this with you lot as I would just nod to whatever, then do whatever I want afterwards anyway.

Not true. If you were scum, you would try to convince us to change our minds, because if you just did whatever you wanted afterwards anyway, you'd get lynched. We have two non-lylo lynches, and one of them has your name on it, no matter what happens.


The town is going to make three kills before lylo; Sens, Dourgrim, and SL. Why do you care if you get shot by yourself or lynched by the town tomorrow, SL? Your kill isn't wasted, as it frees up tomorrow's lynch, which would instead be wasted on you. One person's kill for the entire town's lynch (with a lot more information to go off of based on reports and the alignment of Dour and SL), is an excellent trade.

NO.

It matters because I know 100% that I'm not scum, so it is idiotic to ask me to kill myself.

It matters because wasting my kill on the off chance there is 4 man scum group.

It matters because I BLOODY KNOW I M NOT SCUM. SO IT IS JUST BLOODY STUPID TO ASK ME TO KILL MYSELF.

[GIEFF]

No Gieff. We're not lynching her today so we can use her kill to eliminate an extra person.

I am NOT saying that we lynch SL today. We lynch Dour today, and SL shoots herself tonight, which frees up our lynch for tomorrow.

We are not wasting any kills, we know SL is not NK-immune, and if she fails to kill herself, she is obv-scum, and we lynch her anyway.

A potential problem is that if SL-as-SK realizes she can't win, and so decides to screw the town by coordinating with a final mafia in twilight. But if you say we're just going to lynch her tomorrow no matter what anyway, SL-as-SK already realizes she cant' win, so this is moot.

NO.

It matters because I know 100% that I'm not scum, so it is idiotic to ask me to kill myself.

It matters because wasting my kill on the off chance there is 4 man scum group.

It matters because I BLOODY KNOW I M NOT SCUM. SO IT IS JUST BLOODY STUPID TO ASK ME TO KILL MYSELF.

It is not idiotic. It wastes your kill, but it frees up a lynch. As I said, the town's lynch tomorrow is worth a lot more than your kill tonight, both because we can control it, and because we will have more information to make a decision.

Do you understand the point I am making?

[Xtoxm]

No.

I'm not changing my stance, Gieff.

[SensFan]

Putting this out there.

Is SL doesn't shoot herself, my vote doesn't move off of her for the rest of the game, until she is dead. I don't case if 2 other people claim Scum, VigSL that has half a brain cell shoots herself tonight.

[GIEFF]

Xtoxm, tell me what the difference is between SL shooting herself followed by the town lynching Player A and SL shooting player A, followed by the town lynching SL. Even better, tell me why the second is better than the first.

Here are two reasons why I think the first is better than the second. Either explain why you disagree, or come up with reasons why your strategy is better.

1. It avoids the possibility that SL is the actual vig, tries to kill a NK-immune, and we lynch her for this, keeping the NK-immune alive.
   
2. It allows us to make the decision on the third town-kill with information from B_B's tracker report, Panzer's cop report, spring's alignment, and Dourgrim's alignment. If we decide who spring should NK right now, we don't get to use any of that information to make that decision.

[SensFan]

1. It avoids the possibility that SL is the actual vig, tries to kill a NK-immune, and we lynch her for this, keeping the NK-immune alive.

It also avoids the possibility that SL no-kills and tries to frame me/myk.

[springlullaby]

For fuck sake OK.

DO this already.

[SensFan]

SL, why are you so concerned about us rushing into Night, when the soundness of our plan may very well decide whether or not we win?