Mini 768- Root of All Evil (Game Over)

[PJ.]

I saw that this moment I've done my job. Since from my POV I can see better who's accusations are more baseless and who's are based on lies, make your lynch but know that Panzer has straight lied and I know it to be a lie and I have pointed it out.

And MafiaSSK has made it a point to try and be quiet, but I know them to be after me as well.

If you are unsure where to vote tomorrow, make a charity vote day two for me on
Panzerjager or MSSK

Please quote me where i've lied.

[sekinj]

It's only questionable in this situation. I'm not sure how much modding experiance you have but when designing/using roles you should also was think "What if a REALLY good player gets this role". Dude, commonly Un-NKable roles have been deemed broken(even in theme games) because if a good enough player gets the role, then him being so difficult to lynch and immune to NK makes it too broken. So think if a simple un-NKable role in which you get no info is broken, imagine a role in which you get the name of a scum every night.

Hypothetically, had Gateway not had to claim and got to use his role, he could have killed one and then claimed Day 2 with news that he had confirmed the alignment of a player. Basically, if he claimed in a better position we would of followed him and if he really had this role, he'd have pretty much all the scum caught..

unless there are other roles which handicap his.

[Gateway]

It's only questionable in this situation. I'm not sure how much modding experiance you have but when designing/using roles you should also was think "What if a REALLY good player gets this role". Dude, commonly Un-NKable roles have been deemed broken(even in theme games)

You claimed you had seen me play plenty, a lie I have pointed out and you've offered no proof you were telling the truth.

Now you say I claimed to be unkillable during the night phase, where are you getting this stuff from?

Can someone besides Panzer respond to this post specifically and explain to me how I am not presenting my argument in a fitting manor.

. Panzer claims my experience, I prove it is a lie, no one cares.
. Panzer claims I said I could get NK, I never did, no one cares.

Am I the only one that sees Panzer trying to get a hammer from someone. Please someone just post to tell me how I am presenting that argument incorrectly.

[Gateway]

Oh and I forgot to Unvote, I have been suspicious of MafiaSSK.

They haven't seemed to speak up and help though, maybe just trying to hide, but I'll take my vote back until I know better.

Unvote

[Gateway]

There are flaws that have come to my mind in your logic Panzer. You say my role allows a one person townie army to destroy the scum right?

Well normally I wouldn't claim so I would have the two names to myself, not much I can do but use that to guide my voting or decision making at night.

To be this powerhouse you talk about I would have to claim, which means I get NK right?

Not only that I get two names, so I still don't even get a 100% detective, I get 50% detective.

Explain again how it is a powerhouse role, paying special attention these two points.

- Claiming gets me killed so I lose the "Hey town guess what I know" ability you claim I would have.

- Still no 100% on who the scum is, only a 50% chance.

I still say seek out the scum today and let the NK happen tonight, it will happen to me because the scum know I am telling the truth (I am not one of them), and will want to eliminate me bringing one of them into the light tomorrow.

[ThAdmiral]

My plan:

- we let gateway live.
- tonight he uses his ability and chooses to kill someone
- if the someone he kills is town we lynch him tomorrow after he gives us the other name, if he then turns up town we lynch the other name the next day
- if the someone he kills is scum we let him live again, and repeat the process

a) if he is town the mafia will most likely kill him anyway, and if he doesn't get killed then we have a ridiculously overpowered role with us and will win the game shortly.
b) if he is scum the only way he gets to survive is if he gives us a scum per night, which is a damn good deal for us townies.
c) if he is scum and doesn't want to give up his scumbuddies then he will die shortly and we will have lynched a scum on day 2 which isn't bad.

[Spolium]

I still say seek out the scum today and let the NK happen tonight, it will happen to me because the scum know I am telling the truth (I am not one of them), and will want to eliminate me bringing one of them into the light tomorrow.

1. What do you think the town should do if you survive to D2, given that you have not touched upon this?

2. Kindly address my question regarding molestargazer and Archon.

@TheAdmiral:

Your strategy seems sound and in principle I think it's a good idea, but Gateway has contradicted himself on a few occasions and has been suspiciously evasive in revealing his ability. I don't like the way he's gunning for Panzer either.

@Archon:

Please address #180.

@MafiaSSK:

Please address the last part of #105.

@Verb:

What are your thoughts on molestargazer and Gateway right now? What do you think of ThAdmiral's plan?

@sekinj:

Who would be your second candidate for a lynch? What do you think of ThAdmiral's plan?

[Spolium]

EBWOP:

...and has been suspiciously evasive in revealing his

experience

.

[MafiaSSK]

MafiaSSK: kindly expand upon the reasoning for your vote, and address Verb's request from the end of #27 (which you have apparently ignored).

The reasoning of my vote is as expanded as its going to get as is my address to Verb.

[Battousai]

Vote Count

Gateway

- 6 (Azhrei, Molestargazer, MafiaSSK, Panzerjager, Spolium, Archon)

Molestargazer

- 1 (Verbosity)

Not Voting

: Chiefskye4, Jazzmyn, sekinj, ThAdmiral, Gateway

It takes 7 to lynch!

[Gateway]

My plan:

- we let gateway live.
- tonight he uses his ability and chooses to kill someone
- if the someone he kills is town we lynch him tomorrow after he gives us the other name, if he then turns up town we lynch the other name the next day
- if the someone he kills is scum we let him live again, and repeat the process

a) if he is town the mafia will most likely kill him anyway, and if he doesn't get killed then we have a ridiculously overpowered role with us and will win the game shortly.
b) if he is scum the only way he gets to survive is if he gives us a scum per night, which is a damn good deal for us townies.
c) if he is scum and doesn't want to give up his scumbuddies then he will die shortly and we will have lynched a scum on day 2 which isn't bad.

That is a perfect plan, if the name happens to be one of the three I've thought are scummy I will make the kill. If it is a townie, by all means kill me.

If I get no name that has been suspect to me I will just report both in the morning and from the discussion that creates we will really know one of three people are scum at least (me and the two I mention)
Lastly the scum will probably nk me tonight since my role is a threat, which means one of you live.

Letting me live one night to attempt proof only helps the town day two doesn't it?

[Verbosity]

Regarding Jazzmyn's post: Jazzmyn, how do you feel about this now? Has you opinion changed at all? I, for one, find the gradual changes quite telling, I have serious doubts about Gateway.

Regarding Panzerjager's post: Your haste to "clear" me comes off as scum wanting to be able to build a case without the need for any strong evidence in this game. While I agree that meta is highly valuable, I am placing my individual desire to have fun over the value of you being able to meta me. Either accept it, or build a case against me without it and get me lynched.

From Panzer's posts in general I get the feeling that Panzerjager and Gateway are opposite alignments. Either Panzerjager is scum and wants to lynch a role that powerful, or Gateway is scum and Panzerjager isn't going to let up. Panzerjager and Gateway: I'd like to know your thoughts about the preceding sentence.

Regarding Azhrei's post: This comes off as far too conciliatory for town. This is a strong connection between Panzer and Azhrei against Gateway.

Regarding Panzerjager's and Azhrei's post, there is a very strong connection between these two against Gateway. Very very strong.

Regarding sekinj's post: This reminds me of a scum trying to distance himself from the inevitable wagon. The difference between scum doing this and town trying to stop a bad wagon, is that town would be pushing a separate wagon, as opposed to just getting the heck off this one. Sekinj is most probably scum. <omitted>

@Verb:

What are your thoughts on molestargazer and Gateway right now? What do you think of ThAdmiral's plan?

Mole is becoming less prominent in my mind. I think that Gateway, Panzer, or sekinj would be a good lynch. ThAdmiral's plan relies on Gateway actually killing, which I think he will dodge and say that he didn't find either scummy. I don't see a fundamental problem with it, though.

Gateway: If you make it to night, you will stick to the plan. At night, you will kill one of them. I don't care if you don't think either are scummy, kill the scummier one. This is not a request, it is instruction.

---

Connections I have noticed:
Panzerjager-Azhrei vs. Gateway
Sekinj-Gateway
Gateway-Verbosity
Spolium-Sekinj
Archon-Verbosity
ThAdmiral-Gateway
Verbosity-molestargazer

Useless people:
MafiaSSK
Archon

---

These are relevant, please respond to them truthfully. They are litmus tests to determine how much you're trying to hide.

Spolium: Do you think you are a nice guy?
Sekinj: Do you get angered easily?
MafiaSSK: What did you have for breakfast?
ThAdmiral: Hi.
Gateway: Do you think that you have many friends, or few friends?
Panzerjager: Do you think you're sensitive?
Azhrei: Do you consider yourself a kind person?
ChiefSkye4: Do you want to be taller?
Jazzmyn: Do you think you're insecure?
kpaca/replacement: Do you think you spend too much time on the internet?

---

Unvote; Vote: sekinj

[Gateway]

I still say seek out the scum today and let the NK happen tonight, it will happen to me because the scum know I am telling the truth (I am not one of them), and will want to eliminate me bringing one of them into the light tomorrow.

1. What do you think the town should do if you survive to D2, given that you have not touched upon this?

2. Kindly address my question regarding molestargazer and Archon.

1.) The above post addresses this, we know 100% that one of three people (me and the two names) are scum and can start focusing on set facts D2

2.) My experience is as I said, minor on a MUD forum on the occasion we have a mafia game. We don't keep them going but you can see how short they are as I said at www.middle-earth.us and visit the discussion forum under games. I can't give away my name because that is an in character board, I don't talk with anyone outside of the game there and no one there knows who I am, it is how I stay in character.

@TheAdmiral:

Your strategy seems sound and in principle I think it's a good idea, but Gateway has contradicted himself on a few occasions and has been suspiciously evasive in revealing his ability. I don't like the way he's gunning for Panzer either.

Are you reading? Panzer claimed knowledge of my extensive experience and nothing, a straight lie. Then Panzer claims I said I couldn't be night killed; that came out of eastbumblefek, nowhere. Obviously Panzer is after me so I am gunning for the person I can personally see making lies up out of no where. Why are you ignoring the two claims I made against Panzer?

[sekinj]

lol... yeah, i do get angered easily.

I find panzer's push of gateway bad, but I'm not sure if he is scummy, or just zealous misguided town. I don't think he would push so hard if he really KNEW gateway was town aligned.

I think some of the more background people are the scum... will do some reviewing on that. And yes, I have a bad habit of focusing on the current discussion rather than bringing up new points of my own. (panzer - you should be able to meta me on that).

but again, I'd rather lynch me than gateway because I think gateway can help the town.

[sekinj]

I think SSK has done some scummy looking things, but that is usually his MO

[Gateway]

I was writing my post as Verbosity posted, so in reply. I think I have no friends, my lack of ability to quickly make use of terms early in the game put me at a handy cap.

I truthfully feel the plan put together to have me go one night is perfect. Only scum should fear it, as right now the town can seek out another possible scum and tomorrow know for a fact who to lynch if I am wrong.

I have no excuse or way to hide D2 if I am scum, I see for a fact Panzer is trying to push it right now and I know they are scum. Even right now if I was lynched I'd be a small assistance in dropping Panzer. Still I think even the chance I offer and the promised lynch of dying on D2 is worth letting me survive a night.

And, what if your guilty eyes are wrong and I am a townie. If I do pick correctly and kill scum, the next day we are one less scum -and- I can announce who the other was so we know they are innocent.

[Gateway]

And why is everyone avoiding that Panzer straight lied about the experience claim and the claim I said I couldn't be nk'd. Am I not writing it in a manor others understand. Those give away he lied.

[Verbosity]

Gateway: Why aren't you voting Panzerjager then? Further, you have been so incoherent that I am not going to put the blame on Panzer for misinterpreting your madness. From your answer I gather that you are highly invested into this game, which sadly only tells me that you are a power role or scum, rather useless at this juncture. In addition, I am getting that you are feeling victimised, which is newbie town. At the same time, you are unwilling to take responsibility for your bad stance, which is characteristic of scum.

sekinj: Do you have any other suggestions regarding who is scum? Or are you intent to be his bodyguard and nothing else? From your answer, specifically the brevity, you're trying to be conservative, and not reveal too much about yourself, scummy. However, you openly admit weakness, which would normally be town, but the guilty manner in which you do admit it is scummy. Further, your attempt to pass it off as a joke is indicative that you intend to pass of what I am saying as made-up, scummy.

Sekinj is a good lynch today.

[Spolium]

Spolium: Do you think you are a nice guy?

Yeah, I'd consider myself a nice guy. I'm taken though, sorry.

[Gateway]

I would throw my vote, but I have learned already. Panzer has been attacking with nothing and people ignore when I ask for proof. If I had voted Panzer, they would have claimed OMGUS and said it is scummy. People have ignored my suspicion and outing of Panzer's experience lie, so no one would pay attention I had suspected Panzer for quite a few posts now.

[Verbosity]

Spolium: Do you think you are a nice guy?

Yeah, I'd consider myself a nice guy. I'm taken though, sorry.

Frankness, no need to cover up with false humility, townish. References to personal life, with light hearted behaviour, townish. Assumptions about my intent, scummish.

[Spolium]

1.) The above post addresses this, we know 100% that one of three people (me and the two names) are scum and can start focusing on set facts D2

Fair enough.

2.) My experience is as I said, minor on a MUD forum on the occasion we have a mafia game. We don't keep them going but you can see how short they are as I said at www.middle-earth.us and visit the discussion forum under games. I can't give away my name because that is an in character board, I don't talk with anyone outside of the game there and no one there knows who I am, it is how I stay in character.

I meant the question about molestargzaer and Archon. What do you think of them?

I don't like the way he's gunning for Panzer either.

Are you reading? Panzer claimed knowledge of my extensive experience and nothing, a straight lie. Then Panzer claims I said I couldn't be night killed; that came out of eastbumblefek, nowhere. Obviously Panzer is after me so I am gunning for the person I can personally see making lies up out of no where. Why are you ignoring the two claims I made against Panzer?

Panzer indicated that there was a reference to your experience in another thread, which you handily identified. I can't expect you to say more about it so I haven't been pressing the point, but having referred to the thread in question I think that you were being unnecessarily evasive in revaling your experience - in 167, 168, 189 and 195 you employed strawman arguments against Panzer.

I notice also that despite the rules against discussing ongoing games out of thread, you kept pushing Panzer to do so. To make this clear,

he cannot quote the proof because that would get him modkilled in the other game

. Needless to say, I don't think he has lied, and have touched upon the reasons why at some point or another.

Assumptions about my intent, scummish.

Just reading between the lines.

[Gateway]

Okay, speak layman's since I am lost what are my strawman arguments?

As for Molestargzaer and Archon. I stated in a previous post on day one nothing can be seen as proof. I am townie and I've seen people twist my words so they could just be falling for that effect or misreading. Only Panzer has clearly lied about something I know 100%

You said Panzer can't post because of threat from modkill. How about just saying experience? The games I am in have all started within a week or so, and all my first games. Panzer recently replaced a few days ago, so I am true in saying Panzer has known me for a couple days. Just say how you know I am experienced.
Because of this I have no real facts or solid opinions that could change except for Panzer.

Maybe you can help me, what way can Panzer prove they were making up lies from nothing without a modkill? Can't they say they've known me or watched me for months? Or say I've made hundreds of posts?

[Azhrei]

Gateway is deliberately avoiding questions guys. He quoted one of my posts, and cut out the last line and half, therefore missing all of the questions.

tell me, how do you 'accidentally' cut the questions out?

There is little to no point keeping around, regardless of whether he is telling the thruth, because even if he has that role, I would never believe him. He is incoherent, he lies, he avoids questions, he falsely accuses, he's stupid. Regardless of role or alignment, I see him as a useless player.

@Verbosity: I guess I consider myself to be reasonably kind, but I'm often not.

[Gateway]

Come on that is just stupid. I quoted the part that I was answering, as it answered several questions sent to me. I wasn't quoting your entire post because I was only answering that question at the time.

I've learned not to answer your questions on task because your just wait a few pages and post some twisting of words to keep momentum.

In case you missed it though I will be clear to you again.

Since we have syntax issues between my communication and yours...

. Bullet your questions.
. I will answer as long as
. You show at least an intelligent reply besides "Nope you're stupid and guilty!"

Right now you are showing third grade schoolyard momentum to me. That seems pretty scummy.