The Werewolves of Millers Hollow (Game Over)

[The Fonz]

But he wasn't automatically going to be run up D1, ffs.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

No. I mean, I want to use my vote wisely. There's a difference.

Translation: I want to leave as little of a paper trail as possible.

No. It means exactly what I said. Judicious use of the vote isn't necessarily a bad thing anyway. There's far less obfuscation involved than jumping from place to place.

It's unfamiliarity with a game mechanic more than anything else. You may have noticed I made a random lynch vote in this game already. With my earliest experience of playing Mafia, I didn't do any random voting until I was confident enough to do it, but that wasn't on this site and I don't believe there are transcripts of those games anywhere.

Looks like an excuse to avoid contributing to me.

Looks like you need to get your eyes tested, then. Conservative play to avoid making mistake s with unfamiliar game mechanics does not equal unwilligness to contribute.

I agree with Fonz here. Whilst it doesnt necessarily mean you arent going to contribute, your cautious attitude definitely stinks of not wanting to be held accountable for your votes, and to remain inconspicuous.

BM

Hahaha, the Izzy meta does not include the words inconspicious outside of the context of "Things Izzy is pathaloigally incapable of being". I mean, if I was aiming to be inconspicious, I'm pretty much failing epically at the moment, and if I was, I wouldn't be having this discussion with you because I would have changed my opinion when it raised any sort of controversy.[/WIFOM, lol]

And anyway, how does taking care equal not wanting to be held accountable? I'm perfectly happy to justify any vote or failure to vote, and I'm perfectly sure that I'll be held accountable for every vote or non-vote or unvote I make anyway, as it should be. It seems a pretty silly argument to make.

[knox]

Does not compute, Yos.

If he's not unlynchable, there's no pressing need to lynch him now.

If he is, it's a complete waste.

If he's not unlynchable, then lynching him probably nails us a scum; like I said, his meta makes me worry that there's a chance that he's lying town, but if he's lying about his role I still think we have to assume that would make him more likely scum then town. Lynching a liar is usually a good thing.

Always a good thing. But I've no particular reason to believe he's lying; and if he isn't, it's a wasted lynch. Sure, confirming the role is useful; someone's alignment is more so. I'd rather wait and see if he is taken out at night.

Reason he could be lying: He could be scum, who didnt want to be run up...

BM

He could also be a bored Vanilla Townie who was angry they didn’t get a power role. It could be anything. What we really need are some answers from him.

[Yosarian2]

Izzy: In general, for a scum, voting is more dangerous then not voting, all else being equal; it makes it easier for the town to figure stuff out, either if you get caught, or if one of your scum-buddies gets caught, or if you are in favor of mislynching too many townies, ect. So, in general, I tend to find "not voting" a little bit scummier then "voting"; basically, I tend to think that in most situations the "agressive" types of behaviors (Voting, leading bandwagons, attacking people, being agressive in general) are something that, ignoring the WIFOM, is generally a better play for pro-town people then for scum.

That's just a general case; it's not always very STRONG scumtell, since individual variations tend to be much greater then alignment variations, but in general the point Fonz/BM are making here is a valid one.

Do you think you have a general meta of not voting much, early on, Izzy?

[DizzyIzzyB13]

I wouldn't say that's my general meta, but then again, we're not even talking about my lynch vote, which was randomed onto BM, then moved to Xtoxm when he made his claim. They're concerned that I want to be careful with my mayor vote because I'm unfamiliar with the mechanic. Caution with the unfamiliar is most definitely an Izzy meta.

[MikeSC6]

Would it be a disaster for the town if Xtoxm has a win condition where he's an independant that needs to be lynched? Would that leave us getting at best a draw, or could we still win? How does it usually go?

[The Fonz]

Oh God, not jester speculation.

[MikeSC6]

Oh God, not jester speculation.

This is something that came up before, i'm just trying to clarify the "what ifs". If he's lying, then it looks like he wants us to lynch. We can't discount a possibility just because it's one we don't want to have to deal with. So what are the consequences for town if it is a Jester? And if he's a Vampire, wouldn't it make him an obvious target when he resurrects?

[Shadow Knight]

If he's a vampire, it all depends on how the mod works it. We may have to lynch him twice to effectively make sure he's not a vampire. Granted, all this is moot if the vig decides he's a liability...

[dingoatemybaby]

I believe that when a Jester wins, the game just continues on to determine who gets second place. And since Jester's almost always "win", I think "second place" is considered by all to be the actual winner. (Please note I've only seen Jesters in off-site play).

I don't think it is worth worrying about a Jester. If X is one, it is worth getting him out of the way early just so we don't waste day after day talking about him.

[Jahudo]

I agree that at this point X might as well give us a flavor claim. I’m still not sure if he explicitly knows that an attempted lynch on him results in an automatic no lynch and end of day action.

If there are multiple killing factions out there it is possible X is already a prime NK target and other power target, so I think that we can make better lynch candidates today. If he’s still the most scummy by the end of the day, let him hang; otherwise, we can deal with him later on if he isn’t NKed.

@Mufasa - Why do you want to be lynched? I’m sure we can make that happen if you’re scum.

@ MikeSC – That’s a lot of jester talk. A lot of people shun the idea of jesters even in a theme game unless it specifically states that there could be jesters or that it’s bastard modded style. Are you uncomfortable with testing his claim?

@ Ztife – It seems like you’re not ready to enter the serious stage of the game, but already we’ve had a serious uninhibited claim? So what’s the problem? Also, you’re plan to be mayor takes a lot of your scumhunting and puts it on others. I don’t care about placing blame on a mislynch because people can look genuinely scummy and they are mislynched even with a strong majority of people on board the lynch, but you should vote for whoever you think is scummy and not piggy back on others (especially if you are not sure they are town).

Re: Juls post 99 – Do you think he could be Vampire because he wants to be scum now, or do you have another reason why he might be a vampire?

Firestarter and ZONEACE, where are you???

unvote Xtoxm for Lynch

[MikeSC6]

Cheers!

Before we lynch we have to decide on a mayor anyway- anyone else want to fight for it that hasn't said so yet?

[MikeSC6]

@ MikeSC – That’s a lot of jester talk. A lot of people shun the idea of jesters even in a theme game unless it specifically states that there could be jesters or that it’s bastard modded style. Are you uncomfortable with testing his claim?

I was, but I was unsure of what exactly would happen if he turned out to be a jester. On balance, second place is better than having him lose it for us later on. Based on the few things I'd picked up about jesters from reading the forum, I'd considered it better to be cautious (like the positing restriction, that could certainly be applied to the way Xtoxm might be getting us to lynch him). But if the worst we get for lynching a jester is second place, then I don't mind.

[dingoatemybaby]

Going back to this...

In my experience, there's never a bad time to lynch Xtoxm.

Do you have some knowledge of how X plays?

[The Fonz]

Guys. I want everyone to post their current opinion on the following question, be it based on gut, meta, whatever.

Do you feel that Xtoxm is lying to us?

[dingoatemybaby]

Guys. I want everyone to post their current opinion on the following question, be it based on gut, meta, whatever.

Do you feel that Xtoxm is lying to us?

Yes. But I don't have a feeling as to why. My brain keeps getting stuck in WIFOM.

[MikeSC6]

Do you feel that Xtoxm is lying to us?

I do, yes. One of the fishier things I thought was his proposition that we elect him mayor then try to lynch him because that would make him a confirmed townie- which just isn't the case. Although he's not posted much at all, one line posts here and there- so he could, like someone said, be a bored simple villager who just wants to die. At the moment, I think if he's not lying, he's at least misleading us. We need more information from him about his role.

[knox]

Guys. I want everyone to post their current opinion on the following question, be it based on gut, meta, whatever.

Do you feel that Xtoxm is lying to us?

I think he probably is too and I’m expecting that he might defend his lack of answering question with a post restriction or something which is probably false. The whole claim and wanting to be Mayor is a big WIFOM head stuff. I’m starting to over think it now. Which is probably why he did it in the first place and there I go again.

[Yosarian2]

Guys. I want everyone to post their current opinion on the following question, be it based on gut, meta, whatever.

Do you feel that Xtoxm is lying to us?

I don't really know yet; need to hear more from him about why he claimed and such. I don't really know why he would lie, unless he just really wants to be mayor that badly, but I don't really have any idea how Xtoxm to act yet in any situation, other then that he apparently has a history of making up wierd claims for no apparent reason.

Let's just say that considering his history of fake claims, and considering how rare the role he's claiming is, I think there's a fairly good chance he's lying. I just wish I was sure that he was "either telling the truth or scum", since the worse case scenerio would be we lynch him and he actually dies because he was lying but he was town.

Xtoxm: If you are lying but town, feel free to withdraw your claim, ASAP; at this point, it would probably improve your odds of not being lynched today, oddly enough.

[dingoatemybaby]

Fonz,

What is your answer to your question?

[Barrylocke]

Guys. I want everyone to post their current opinion on the following question, be it based on gut, meta, whatever.

Do you feel that Xtoxm is lying to us?

Im having a hard time seeing why he'd say lie as a mafia/idependent. I'd like to think that he isnt just going to say something like HEY I CANT BE LYNCHED and then run off.

So Im leaning on him telling the truth, though its hard to see a reason to reveal that this early as well.

Mind you, he could have just said that to start up discussion for Day 1.

[Juls]

Re: Juls post 99 – Do you think he could be Vampire because he wants to be scum now, or do you have another reason why he might be a vampire?

Your first question assumes he is a vampire. But if we were going with that assumption then his motivation would be to get lynched and flip town. Then, he could be scum as a "confirmed townie". If he is the vampire then that is what I think his initial motivations were. I do not have any other reason to think he is a vampire but the idea that he is a Vampire makes sense.

Can you explain to me now, why, if you thought he could be a vampire would you want him to be mayor?

Guys. I want everyone to post their current opinion on the following question, be it based on gut, meta, whatever.

Do you feel that Xtoxm is lying to us?

I think Xtoxm likes to gambit. I have seen him do it as scum and town. I also think he likes to claim early. I have seen him do it as both scum and town. So, do I think he is lying about being unlynchable? No. Do I think he is giving us the whole story? No.

[zwetschenwasser]

I prefer treating Xtotm as a miller, as previously mentioned.

[Percy]

Sure, he could be lying, but why is he scum? We need more information, and without it, we're just going to be testing one guy's claim that lynching him will be a waste. The best we can hope for is that X is a lying scumbag who claimed unlynchable and is goading the town to lynch him in the hopes that we won't. Whilst that is (vaguely) possible, I don't see any other evidence for it, and I need to see more of it. As I already pointed out, if you had that role, the most protown thing for you to do would be to claim it early (like a miller role).

Lynching X is a terrible idea right now.

In answer to the Fonz's question, I think that his power is most likely as claimed. I conclude nothing about his alignment, and don't want him anywhere near the mayor's seat.

Why do you think i would be a bad mayor?

That's a misleading question. You're the one who has to convince me to vote for you. Why would you be a good mayor?

If you'd like my read on you, here it is:
I disagree with you on the Xtomx issue, but somewhat agree with your approach to the Dizzy metatheory - I think town shouldn't lurk, but I think my approach is to make one big post per day with well thought out analysis rather than one or two sentences many times a day. Just my style, I guess. Other than that, you claim experience (which I assume you have), and are an active participant in the game.

With that in mind, sure, you wouldn't make a terrible mayor. You are not the only candidate, and you're not standing out in anything but the vote count.

@Xtomx: I think claiming 'unlynchable' makes you the perfect scum target. If you're pro-town and also the mayor, what makes you think you'll survive tonight?

Percy, please explain why that would be a bad thing.

OK, I don't really understand your question. I was trying to say that an unlynchable pro-town mayor would be a big scum target for their NK, almost as much as an unlynchable doctor or something. I want Xtomx to explain why he thinks he won't get NKed. Does that answer your question?

I'm happy with my vote on Ztife at the moment. The Fonz has stepped up and said you're noobtown, but I'm not so sure. The mayor position as you described is a scum's wet dream, and your OMGUS vote is insane.

@Mod: Can we get prods for ZONEFACE and Firestarter?

[Yosarian2]

As I already pointed out, if you had that role, the most protown thing for you to do would be to claim it early (like a miller role).

Wait...why?

If you had a miller role, it makes perfect sense to claim it day 1, because otherwise a cop investigation is horrible.

On the other hand, I see no reason to claim a "unlynchable" role day 1, at all. If you're about to get lynched, then sure, might as well claim first; short of that, why bother. Unnecessarary claims are almost always bad for the town, and the claim seems completly unnecessary to me.

So, why do you think unlynchable is a claim that should be made early day 1, exactally?