Mini 767: Cubic Mafia (Game Over!)

[Riceballtail]

Metagaming is certainly helpful for finding scum, but I try to not rely on it too much, because you can rely on it yourself just as much as someone else can. Therefore, it's all WIFOM.

[PhilyEc]

Considering your playstyle so far, suddenly trying to attack me in this manner seems unnatural. You're trying to argue defense through ad hominem, I'm guessing.

Oh so its okay to accuse more than half the game of being scum but the second I voice my opinion on you over a topic thats just been brought up its a sudden attack? You make it seem unfounded and random when your gameplay is coming into question. Ill buy that you're going through everyone for the sake of Day One references but this jumping the gun on my opinion isnt very inviting.

(Continues to pretend he knows what "ad hominem" means)

@BB: What about phillyec suddenly changing from passive fence sitting comments to active attacks? Is that common for him?

Why not ask me directly? Seems like you're trying to insue suspicion even before you get your answers.
Anyways, I just finished Mass Effect, hence the effort appearing out of the blue, twas an awesome game.

In Myko's Open 126, recently closed, you mentioned reading a lot of (I assume Zwet's?) games and found his one or two liner posts were common for his game play. Why then do you mistake my normal game play for a scum tell?

This is the first game I've ever seen you play, you have to admit, Zwets more likely for me to see in a game than you are and I havent read any games with you in it, but if you claim you always play like this I'll look into it since you've done the same for me. (Which is a pro-town move from you to be fair)

Let's say you suspected me for my "scum tell." Why not say:
Scummy players such as BB or others? (I will grant you that at this point, you may have read that Magnus doesn't suspect me the way some people might, but I still feel that a lack of logic is present in this post.)

I find being specific fuels my towns action to mislynch me, it almost happened at the beginning of Myoknian (cant remember how his name goes) game and would have beeen a disaster. To be specific (lol) I'm talking about when I brought up how Zwet is off my list of low poster counts being scum theory, funny enough he ended up being scum.

I feel that your contribution of scum hunting is seriously lacking.

If you truely are checking my games you'll see my contributions to them all went down seriously after around the 4th of April when I spent my Bday money (21st March). Thats the only evidence I have of my reasons being honest.

I think I have a vote on you but your behaviour is confirming you now so

Unvote

for now.

[Isacc]

Alright, got to my other games, but mom is yelling at me over school stuff. Will get to this one later tonight, or else sometime tomorrow. Don't worry, I won't be inactive much longer!

[Isacc]

EBWOP: And no lynches till I'm back (in case anyone is near that point)!

[magnus_orion]

Why not ask me directly? Seems like you're trying to insue suspicion even before you get your answers.
Anyways, I just finished Mass Effect, hence the effort appearing out of the blue, twas an awesome game.

Because you are a biased source. I'm also suspicious of the fact that you felt you had to appear to be scumhunting, but not putting effort into it. In other words, you were just trying to appear pro-town, so you could play mass effect? or you were just trying to appear pro-town because you're scum.
And an Ad hominem arguement is not a good arguement.

[Dourgrim]

Why not ask me directly? Seems like you're trying to insue suspicion even before you get your answers.
Anyways, I just finished Mass Effect, hence the effort appearing out of the blue, twas an awesome game.

Because you are a biased source.

This looks like hypocrisy to me, based on my statement earlier that magnus' opinion on my case against him didn't matter (and his subsequent "of course it matters" argument). Just sayin'.

[caf19]

Tie that into the fact that I've been distracted doing other things. When I skimmed the thread I picked out the most obvious scum tell and brought it up. My contribution when unfortunately unable to keep up with thread. I'm pretty caught up and I still think the action I pointed out was extremely scummy, what you call 'obvious'.

Meh, quite a few people had a 'distracted' start to the game. You were the only one who compounded it by returning with some noticeably scummy actions. I still disagree with your analysis of BB's action as very scummy. Scum don't act like that, committing obvious tells. They usually try to blend into the town, trying to look approachable and pro-town while secretly advancing their own interests. I could see how BB's action can be scummy in context as part of an ongoing effort to confuse the town with his antics, but you didn't see it that way.

@Magnus
Who arent you suspicious of? Rather than aggressive gameplay it seems like random mud hurling till you hit a bullseye, your explanation is something scum would most likely fabricate for their suspicions being so random. Throwing my opinion in on the approach of Magnus' approach to the game~.

Perhaps I've got my scum-goggles on, but your shift to aggressively and assuredly attacking someone else reeks of trying to save your own butt by building a loud case on someone else. I've found magnus to be a highly confounding player with his 'tests' that I talked about previously and his eagerness to suspect people. However, I'm not sure whether that is indicative of scumminess or simply his energetic playstyle - that is something it will apparently take a while to work out. I'm willing to let him live for now.

[Beyond_Birthday]

@BB: What about phillyec suddenly changing from passive fence sitting comments to active attacks? Is that common for him?

In the other game, he wasn't agressive until he saw someone do something (he considered) really scummy and then attacked him without mercy until he reevaluated the other player based on their reactions, so I suppose the same idea could apply from a perspective of fence sitting to sudden agression... That is true...

I just think that his play in Open 126 seemed stronger and more logical...

However, to continue my point: In Open 126, his attack on the person, Wulfy, eventually did end because he reevaluated his play. Also, Phily and Wulfy were both town. Wulfy won endgam, Phily shot N1. (For those who care but are too lazy to actually go look it up.)[/opinion].

Though definitely not cleared, Phily's behavior doesn't condemn him. However Magnus and caf, you two probably need a better reason to attack Phily. I do like voting Phily till he returns to scum hunting (as far as I can see).

[magnus_orion]

Why not ask me directly? Seems like you're trying to insue suspicion even before you get your answers.
Anyways, I just finished Mass Effect, hence the effort appearing out of the blue, twas an awesome game.

Because you are a biased source.

This looks like hypocrisy to me, based on my statement earlier that magnus' opinion on my case against him didn't matter (and his subsequent "of course it matters" argument). Just sayin'.

Because I prefer my answer from a less biased source than a more biased source. His opinion on the matter still matters, and is noted. He admits to active lurking, and excuses himself through mass effect.

So what I'm bothered by in this excuse is that he was bothering to appear to look for scumtells, and such, but no bothering to put real effort in. As if he didn't want to appear suspicious, but was more interested in mass effect at the time. So his concern appears to be not finding scum, but just not appearing suspicious. Otherwise, I'd expect a player to make a concious decision to look up the game, analyze what's going on, and give what they find to be scumtells, not pop in and throw some more obvious junk out and then get out of there to give the guise of contributing. I'm pretty confident he's scum based on this excuse.

That said, BB's comment does instill a little doubt.

Though definitely not cleared, Phily's behavior doesn't condemn him. However Magnus and caf, you two probably need a better reason to attack Phily. I do like voting Phily till he returns to scum hunting (as far as I can see).

Looks like I may have to do a bit of meta research, maybe?

[Riceballtail]

FoS:Philly

for what may be different tactics, can still be used as scum moves too. Don't think it's lynch worthy, at least not yet.

[magnus_orion]

I just had an idea.
*(window shatters. doors slam shut and lock. dogs bark. small children cry)*



@ phillyec: Alright, let's proceed under the assumption that you

were

playing mass effect. Now, what does that lead to regarding your comments thus far.
Two conclusions:
1. Phillyec should be able to read through the game thus far, and provide comments that show a more in depth analysis prior to what we've seen out of him originally
2. Phillyec's analysis and posts will be more in-depth and common from this point forward.

I wonder if these conclusions will prove to hold. Phillyec, reread, and provide a more in-depth analysis, now that you can focus more attention on the game.

[MafiaSSK]

I know. I ran into a limited amount of time due to Passover. Still don't have enough tonight. For sure a post tomorrow.

[Beyond_Birthday]

True, Orion, but should we not then press other people who have spoken little? Trumpet, for example, should be pressured for the same reason.

Hopefully someone good will come in for Flame. *Sighs* This game is stalling...

[caf19]

Though definitely not cleared, Phily's behavior doesn't condemn him. However Magnus and caf, you two probably need a better reason to attack Phily. I do like voting Phily till he returns to scum hunting (as far as I can see).

If Phily does come up with some thought-out scumhunting, I will analyse it fairly and not just assume he's scum fabricating it. I like my vote for now though.

Anyway I think I missed a couple of interesting posts over the last few days so here are some comments:

Phily... I'm rereading the (now finished) game where we were both town to see if I can get a read on him relative to how he's playing here. Seems about the same, so probably a nulltell.

Ah, we have another fan of the meta defence in the game. Do you have anything to say on the stuff Phily has done specifically in this game?

Re: magnus/Dourgrim: ...why do I feel like you're both going to flip town?

Er, yes, why do you?

I'm also a bit wary of magnus trying to string lynches together by saying that Isacc is scummy if Phily is town. did you ever explain why that is the case, magnus?

[Dourgrim]

(Posting this in all my games)

Probably won't be checking the boards from now until sometime Monday. Easter and whatnot... not to mention putting the finishing touches on the gaming convention I'm helping run in two weeks (http://www.gaminghoopla.com, if you're interested), planning my wedding, and getting ready for surgery next week. Bleh.

Anyway, see you all Monday!

[Beyond_Birthday]

Later Dour, till Monday.

Caf: You see my point on Trumpet? I think if Trumpet is scum, Magnus' raises slightly due to his lack of attack against him the way he attacked Phily. Keeping vote on Phily till he has time and actually does make a scum hunting post.

RBT: Any inclination of who is possible scum?

Isacc: GET BACK HERE!

[magnus_orion]

I'm also a bit wary of magnus trying to string lynches together by saying that Isacc is scummy if Phily is town. did you ever explain why that is the case, magnus?

Well, its about time somebody mentioned that. I was starting to think you'd all lost your heads.

1. Neither philly nor issac are lynch worthy at this point. If we were forced into making a lynch this instant with no further discussion, I'd go with philly. But we should interrogate the suspect, gather information on them, and collect data. This way we are better informed once we decide on a lynch.

2. Issac is scummy if philly flips town. Based on a few premises: That scum want to lynch asap, and that scum are afraid to push for this. I've played as scum, and I feel that there is a natural inclination toward finding something acceptable once a townie or two does it. Since I know I am town, Issac's reluctance to vote Philly upon post # 145, but he votes philly in his post # 166, directly following my post # 165 where I vote philly.

Assuming philly is town, then Issac would feel that when I voted him, it became established that it would not be impossible for a townie to take this route. Issac's immediate jump to take this action makes him slightly scummier then anyone else on the wagon. That said, with any town lynch day 1, unless the lynch is forced by deadline, the possiblity is much greater that scum would be on the wagon as opposed to not. So, if philly flips town, everyone on the wagon should be subject to greater scrutiny. Issac had already commented on philly, but only voted him after I did, so he sticks out among the members of the wagon. With a deadline lynch, I'm not entirely sure if scum would necessarily want to avoid the lynch or not, since it is technically forced, so they might hide from the wagon to avoid aforementioned scrutiny...

Also, the reason I deal with "stringing lynches together" is very simply due to habit forming, as a result of me never having survived night 1 as town in the history of my play on mafia scum, for various reasons, so its only natural that I'd put out my thoughts on future events before I no longer can. Its not that I suspect I'm going to be nightkilled, but more of a "just in case" type of thing.

[Nocmen]

I'm also a bit wary of magnus trying to string lynches together by saying that Isacc is scummy if Phily is town. did you ever explain why that is the case, magnus?

Well, its about time somebody mentioned that. I was starting to think you'd all lost your heads.

1. Neither philly nor issac are lynch worthy at this point. If we were forced into making a lynch this instant with no further discussion, I'd go with philly. But we should interrogate the suspect, gather information on them, and collect data. This way we are better informed once we decide on a lynch.

2. Issac is scummy if philly flips town. Based on a few premises: That scum want to lynch asap, and that scum are afraid to push for this. I've played as scum, and I feel that there is a natural inclination toward finding something acceptable once a townie or two does it. Since I know I am town, Issac's reluctance to vote Philly upon post # 145, but he votes philly in his post # 166, directly following my post # 165 where I vote philly.

Wait...philly is not lynch worthy at this point, but you would lynch him if you had to? That makes little sense.

Though I do agree completely with the point you said about Issac.

I think we need to make a choice which of these we should test today.

Unvote,

, BB has proved a bit better to me.

[MafiaSSK]

Quick look through says Magnus seems town.

Unvote.

[Beyond_Birthday]

I'm also a bit wary of magnus trying to string lynches together by saying that Isacc is scummy if Phily is town. did you ever explain why that is the case, magnus?

Well, its about time somebody mentioned that. I was starting to think you'd all lost your heads.

1. Neither philly nor issac are lynch worthy at this point. If we were forced into making a lynch this instant with no further discussion, I'd go with philly. But we should interrogate the suspect, gather information on them, and collect data. This way we are better informed once we decide on a lynch.

2. Issac is scummy if philly flips town. Based on a few premises: That scum want to lynch asap, and that scum are afraid to push for this. I've played as scum, and I feel that there is a natural inclination toward finding something acceptable once a townie or two does it. Since I know I am town, Issac's reluctance to vote Philly upon post # 145, but he votes philly in his post # 166, directly following my post # 165 where I vote philly.

Assuming philly is town, then Issac would feel that when I voted him, it became established that it would not be impossible for a townie to take this route. Issac's immediate jump to take this action makes him slightly scummier then anyone else on the wagon. That said, with any town lynch day 1, unless the lynch is forced by deadline, the possiblity is much greater that scum would be on the wagon as opposed to not. So, if philly flips town, everyone on the wagon should be subject to greater scrutiny. Issac had already commented on philly, but only voted him after I did, so he sticks out among the members of the wagon. With a deadline lynch, I'm not entirely sure if scum would necessarily want to avoid the lynch or not, since it is technically forced, so they might hide from the wagon to avoid aforementioned scrutiny...

Also, the reason I deal with "stringing lynches together" is very simply due to habit forming, as a result of me never having survived night 1 as town in the history of my play on mafia scum, for various reasons, so its only natural that I'd put out my thoughts on future events before I no longer can. Its not that I suspect I'm going to be nightkilled, but more of a "just in case" type of thing.

+4%
Somehow, I'm seeing more Mafia theory and theorizing on players being linked than I am seeing actual scum hunting. This looks strange Magnus. You usually take a position of attacking everyone viciously and reading deeply into texts, but with more support on why a person is scum for X, not by relation. Although, I could be reading this wrong.

Nocmen, get back here. With a series of minor posts, you've failed to advance the game and to contribute.

[Kairyuu]

Deadline will be extended by 1 week due to the replacement issue. New deadline will be Friday, April 24, at 8pm EST. I have a few people I'm trying to contact about it, but I haven't heard back yet.

Also, votecount and prods tomorrow.

[magnus_orion]

I'm also a bit wary of magnus trying to string lynches together by saying that Isacc is scummy if Phily is town. did you ever explain why that is the case, magnus?

Well, its about time somebody mentioned that. I was starting to think you'd all lost your heads.

1. Neither philly nor issac are lynch worthy at this point. If we were forced into making a lynch this instant with no further discussion, I'd go with philly. But we should interrogate the suspect, gather information on them, and collect data. This way we are better informed once we decide on a lynch.

2. Issac is scummy if philly flips town. Based on a few premises: That scum want to lynch asap, and that scum are afraid to push for this. I've played as scum, and I feel that there is a natural inclination toward finding something acceptable once a townie or two does it. Since I know I am town, Issac's reluctance to vote Philly upon post # 145, but he votes philly in his post # 166, directly following my post # 165 where I vote philly.

Wait...philly is not lynch worthy at this point, but you would lynch him if you had to? That makes little sense.

Though I do agree completely with the point you said about Issac.

I think we need to make a choice which of these we should test today.

Unvote,

, BB has proved a bit better to me.

I think this is bad word choice. Lynching philly would be premature, since we should be able to see if he can reach the conclusions indicated above that I stated.

@BB: Do you want me to attack ToD for some reason? I've kind of ignored him... as well as RBT (though I don't know how the hell to read RBT ) not to mention that flame needs replacement. I agree, discussion is lagging. My reasons for not really moving forward are that Philly isn't posting. I want him to respond to my request for analysis.
Also, you have to remember, Neopolitan was wackier than a usual game. There was a lot of outguessing the mod to do, which I don't see happening all that much in this game.

Alright, reread trumpet of doom's (quite limited) number of posts. ToD's already posted his feeling on the game (more than we've seen from phillyec), but I'd have to say, if Philly flips scum, He'd be one of the top suspects. Wonder why he's lurking, which I assure you he is doing....

Is band a long term thing that still allows you Internet access, ToD?

Hoping to see results from those prods.

I have a few more comments to make on a few things I've noticed, but I'm holding off until Philly posts.

[Riceballtail]

As of right now, I really don't have much suspicion. The perpetual walls are contributing to this though, as a lot of it seems to just be talking between each other and it doesn't look like a whole lot of focused scumhunting yet. It's there, but it's not focused.

[Walnut]

RBT- do you think that you are as much guilty of the perceived lack of scumhunting as anyone else? You seem to be implying that you are happy to wait for other players to do the posting and then for you to pick up suspicions from it.

I like magnus' point regarding Isacc posting the intent, waiting for someone else to vote, then joining the vote a lot more than his earlier attack on nocmen for "dodging the question".

This is the first game I've ever seen you play, you have to admit, Zwets more likely for me to see in a game than you are and I havent read any games with you in it, but if you claim you always play like this I'll look into it since you've done the same for me. (Which is a pro-town move from you to be fair)

Why do you think that is a pro-town move, Phily?

[Riceballtail]

Oh, I know it doesn't look like I am. But sometimes the best analyzing is done without questioning.