The Werewolves of Millers Hollow (Game Over)

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Going back to this...

In my experience, there's never a bad time to lynch Xtoxm.

Do you have some knowledge of how X plays?

I've played with him before. It's... an experience.

[Mufasa]

My vote for myself is because I don't fear a lynch, and for now it is a place holder as I am transiting into the new game and wrapping up the old game.

[Yosarian2]

My vote for myself is because I don't fear a lynch, and for now it is a place holder as I am transiting into the new game and wrapping up the old game.

Ok, but there's a fair amount of stuff that's happened already in this game, especally xtoxm's claim and the various reactions to it, and I'd be interested to hear what you think about it all, as soon as possible.

Also, is there any specific reason you're voting Fonz for mayor?

[Percy]

@Yos: If you claim that ability while under investigation for scumminess, it is far less likely to be believed. Just like claiming miller

after

an investigation on you is less likely to be believed, even if it's actually true. Of course if you follow that logic, the best time for the scum to claim this ability is at the beginning, but that's no different from scum claiming miller.

If it's true, we need to know early. I'm not saying his early claim makes him protown, but that the best time for protown unlynchable to claim is when you're

not

under investigation.

Let me put it another way. He claimed unlynchable, and now many players want to kill him, just for that. If he was already looking scummy and

then

claimed unlynchable, he would be put down like a dog, even if he was protown.

If he's some kind of Jester role, we shouldn't lynch him. If he's some kind of rise-as-a-bad-guy role, we shouldn't lynch him. If he's just an unlynchable townie, we shouldn't lynch him. If he looks scummy, we should lynch him, and if he can't be lynched, we'll deal with that then.


This looks like I'm defending Xtomx, which is really not where I want to be. I just think that the claim had to come out, and I'm glad it came out now, and we should be looking at his playstyle rather than policy lynching him based on his claim.

In that vein,

When you fail at lynching me i'll be confirmed town, so i'm the best choice.

If we try to lynch you and fail, what about that will make you confirmed town? It will mean you're telling the truth about being unlynchable, but I don't see that as a protown power.

BM asked a similar question, and you dismissed it. Answer both of us.

I suggest you start contributing. You'll get my vote in 48 hours if you don't start scumhunting and analysing like a motherfucker.

My vote for myself is because I don't fear a lynch, and for now it is a place holder as I am transiting into the new game and wrapping up the old game.

This post is pretty wierd. Why vote yourself as a placeholder when you can just not vote?

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Well, I might be out of date, but I want to say something regarding the agressiveness. I think town should be more agressive than passive, however, it should not reach an extreme of agressiveness. I've seen some games where the mafia uses the agressiveness of some pro-town players to lead the lynches as they wish. The Fonz, I believe this is what happened in War of Heaven II, isn't it? But again, a passive stance won't help either. Some agressive is needed, but all attacks should come with good bases and not just for the sake of lynching, or for pure guts.

Regarding The Fonz's question, something strikes me as truth in X's claim, however, something as well strikes me as odd. I'm more inclined to believe (but I'm still doubting) that his claim is real, but that his alignment is shady (at least, not pro-town). The wifom is really blurring my mind in this issue.

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Oh, another thing. I, as I said before, believe that the best course of action is not lynching X. N1 will give us more information about him than a D1 lynch.

Also, Mufasa, why? You could as well not vote for now. Or, are you looking for a self-lynch? Or, what's even worst, are you trying to look like you're looking for a lynch to avoid a lynch? One way or another, I believe you're trying to confuse town, and that's never a good thing to do. IGMEOY.

[Yosarian2]

@Yos: If you claim that ability while under investigation for scumminess, it is far less likely to be believed.

Um, no. You should often claim if you're about to be lynched. A claim like that woudn't necessarally stop a lynch, but it wouldn't really matter much at that point anyway; plus then no one would be surprised when lynching you causes a no-lynch.

On the other hand, if you don't have a reason to claim, you don't. Period. Claiming without reason is anti-town.

Just like claiming miller

after

an investigation on you is less likely to be believed, even if it's actually true.

That's a completly different situation. Miller probably should claim early, because otherwise a cop investigation might be wasted, and a cop outed, and all that. On the other hand, there is absolutly no reason for a "lynch immune" guy to claim this early.

Let me put it another way. He claimed unlynchable, and now many players want to kill him, just for that. If he was already looking scummy and

then

claimed unlynchable, he would be put down like a dog, even if he was protown.

Well, his claim would probably be tested.

If he's some kind of Jester role, we shouldn't lynch him.

Scummy comment.

fos

This looks like I'm defending Xtomx, which is really not where I want to be.

Well, yeah. You are.

I just think that the claim had to come out, and I'm glad it came out now, and we should be looking at his playstyle rather than policy lynching him based on his claim.

Why did the claim "have to come out", exactally?

[Ztife]

Scum driven?

As stated before, I will still continue to post in who I think I should vote for should I have a normal vote, and I can also be part of those who urge mayor (myself) to use the vote.

Urging the mayor to vote gives us another opportunity to look at the voting process with more reasoning and discussion, and more posts with content means the scums are more exposed. You think the scum would invoke the mayor's vote together? Obviously, if you have bandwagoned vote together on a player, THEN urge the mayor's vote together, you have severely put yourself on the suspicion panel just to gang vote a townie to death. There might be several disagreements, but the likelihood of this happening is about as much as the whole scum bandwagoning together on a townie.

Besides, this is just making the mayor a generic role. Anybody could play it this way. I fail to see how it benefits scum more than town, since generating more discussions is always good. And if scum bandwagon together and "mayor vote" together, they risk making themselves look like they are banding. Which also helps town identify them better. I could see how this mayor role benefits even if I am not the mayor, but somebody plays it this way.

[Gorrad]

Any further jester speculation will result in my being cross, possibly including making snide remarks. Nothing is /ever/ gained from Jester speculation. If he's a Jester, whoop de freak. His winning will not cause the end of the large theme.

[Battle Mage]

claiming unlynchable is a stupid play for a jester, because it means if they arent lynched Day 1, they are likely to be NKed.

BM

[The Fonz]

Fonz,

What is your answer to your question?

No. I can't see an antitown role where it particularly makes sense, and I never admit the possibility of town liars.

I prefer treating Xtotm as a miller, as previously mentioned.

So... policy lynch him?

@Xtomx: I think claiming 'unlynchable' makes you the perfect scum target. If you're pro-town and also the mayor, what makes you think you'll survive tonight?

Percy, please explain why that would be a bad thing.

OK, I don't really understand your question. I was trying to say that an unlynchable pro-town mayor would be a big scum target for their NK, almost as much as an unlynchable doctor or something. I want Xtomx to explain why he thinks he won't get NKed. Does that answer your question?

Not really, as it still begs the question: if he is protown, without a night action, why would he WANT to avoid being NKed? In that scenario, you absolutely do want to be NKed.

As I already pointed out, if you had that role, the most protown thing for you to do would be to claim it early (like a miller role).

Wait...why?

If you had a miller role, it makes perfect sense to claim it day 1, because otherwise a cop investigation is horrible.

No, no, no.

My vote for myself is because I don't fear a lynch, and for now it is a place holder as I am transiting into the new game and wrapping up the old game.

That just looks like posturing to me.

@Yos: If you claim that ability while under investigation for scumminess, it is far less likely to be believed. Just like claiming miller

after

an investigation on you is less likely to be believed, even if it's actually true. Of course if you follow that logic, the best time for the scum to claim this ability is at the beginning, but that's no different from scum claiming miller.

If it's true, we need to know early. I'm not saying his early claim makes him protown, but that the best time for protown unlynchable to claim is when you're

not

under investigation.

Let me put it another way. He claimed unlynchable, and now many players want to kill him, just for that. If he was already looking scummy and

then

claimed unlynchable, he would be put down like a dog, even if he was protown.

But if he's UNLYNCHABLE....

Well, I might be out of date, but I want to say something regarding the agressiveness. I think town should be more agressive than passive, however, it should not reach an extreme of agressiveness. I've seen some games where the mafia uses the agressiveness of some pro-town players to lead the lynches as they wish. The Fonz, I believe this is what happened in War of Heaven II, isn't it? But again, a passive stance won't help either. Some agressive is needed, but all attacks should come with good bases and not just for the sake of lynching, or for pure guts.

What happened in War In Heaven is we had the unique disadvantage that roflcopter, an obvtown player, was ripping the town apart by singlehandedly killing town players right and left, and there was nothing we could do to stop him but kill him, which we didn't want to do because he was a powerful obvtown role. That's more analogous to repeated misviggings. When I acted aggressively, and tried to lead the town, I got two players lynched, one of whom was scum. In fact, my biggest error in that game was too much going with the flow later on.

claiming unlynchable is a stupid play for a jester, because it means if they arent lynched Day 1, they are likely to be NKed.

BM

This.

[The Fonz]

Oh, and Vampire speculation is equally stupid, since a Vampire has two opportunities to win, and the first lynch puts him on his 'last life.'

[Shadow Knight]

My thoughts about X are as follows- By claiming unlynchable, he has pretty much made a target of himself for any night killer and/or cult we might have in this game. After thinking about it last night, I'd say our best bet is to leave him alone for today and see what happens night 1. Setup speculation could take us anywhere with his claim and someone mentioned that he likes to gambit. That could make him a lot of things from vanilla to a role reflector. He could be hoping to draw the nightkill and reflect it back at whomever sent it. He could indeed be bored vanilla townie (still hoping to draw the night kill). He could be an unlynchable SK and trying to set himself up as town to draw doc protection. My point is that he could be anything (including an unlynchable townie with no other abilities that the mod threw in to mess with us). It doesn't have to be bastard mod mafia for the mod to have a little fun, right?

[Dr Pepper]

Do you feel that Xtoxm is lying to us?

@ The Fonz: I believe Xtoxm is lying about his role. My current theory is that he is some sort of serial killer pulling a gambit. I think he is bluffing about being unlynchable in hopes that noone tests him. If that occurs, he knows at least one of the killing groups will attempt to murder him during the night. The only role I cant think of that would be unable to be killed duirng the night is serial killer. I would like to see him lynched before the end of the game, but not necessarily today.

@ Shinnen_no_Me: Your latest series of posts looks like a lot of fence sitting to me. You are stating the obvious and adding nothing new to discussion.

@ DizzyIzzy: There is a difference between being cautious and not doing anything useful. Now you appear to be making excuses. So before I vote you, here my question to you: How familar with this mechanic do you have to be until you make a move?

@ Mufasa: I suggest you stop voting yourself. It looks pretty suspicious and I consider it being scummy.

At this point, I feel comfortable enough to

Major Vote The Fonz

. I have a semi meta on him and its good enough to consider him for major day one.

Also, jester/vampire speculation should stop.

[Battle Mage]

My vote for myself is because I don't fear a lynch, and for now it is a place holder as I am transiting into the new game and wrapping up the old game.

Ok, but there's a fair amount of stuff that's happened already in this game, especally xtoxm's claim and the various reactions to it, and I'd be interested to hear what you think about it all, as soon as possible.

Also, is there any specific reason you're voting Fonz for mayor?

Mufasa - Do you think early self-voting is a scumtell? or a towntell?

BM

[Battle Mage]

@ Mufasa: I suggest you stop voting yourself. It looks pretty suspicious and I consider it being scummy.

why is him revealing himself as potential scum, a bad thing? why are you trying to discourage him?

At this point, I feel comfortable enough to

Major Vote The Fonz

. I have a semi meta on him and its good enough to consider him for major day one.

Also, jester/vampire speculation should stop.

Facepalm. Fonz, if you play Major, can i play Minor? lmao

Also,

Claim: Jester

BM

[The Fonz]

Also,

Claim: Jester

BM

*Facepalm*

[Gorrad]

Also,

Claim: Jester

BM

*Cracks up*

Confirm Vote for Lynch: Xtoxm

[Battle Mage]

This looks like I'm defending Xtomx, which is really not where I want to be. I just think that the claim had to come out, and I'm glad it came out now, and we should be looking at his playstyle rather than policy lynching him based on his claim.

I suggest you start contributing. You'll get my vote in 48 hours if you don't start scumhunting and analysing like a motherfucker.

I have an irresistable urge to lynch you right now.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Also,

Claim: Jester

BM

*facepalm*

*Cracks up*

Confirm Vote for Lynch: Xtoxm

rofl

BM

[Battle Mage]

Guys. I want everyone to post their current opinion on the following question, be it based on gut, meta, whatever.

Do you feel that Xtoxm is lying to us?

I think Xtoxm likes to gambit. I have seen him do it as scum and town. I also think he likes to claim early. I have seen him do it as both scum and town. So, do I think he is lying about being unlynchable? No. Do I think he is giving us the whole story? No.

I'm intrigued. what else do you think he could be hiding about his role?

BM

[DizzyIzzyB13]

@ DizzyIzzy: There is a difference between being cautious and not doing anything useful. Now you appear to be making excuses. So before I vote you, here my question to you: How familar with this mechanic do you have to be until you make a move?

I'll make a move when I'm good and ready, thanks. In fact, you'd probably be seeing far more use of my lynch vote than you've seen if it weren't for the fact that Xtoxm has pretty made sure we need to lynch him already.

[The Fonz]

Izzy: Are you waiting on the answer to something?

[zwetschenwasser]

STOP WITHT THE XTOXM WIFOM CRAP! If he's scummy, we lynch him. Simple as pie.

[MikeSC6]

STOP WITHT THE XTOXM WIFOM CRAP! If he's scummy, we lynch him. Simple as pie.

Let's wait to hear what he says- with his recent lack of posts, I'm personally edging towards him being a simple villager who wanted a power-role- and so not not in our best interests to lynch.