The Werewolves of Millers Hollow (Game Over)

[MikeSC6]

Ha, I didn't intend the double negative there. One of the "nots" is a typo, the left one.

[zwetschenwasser]

Mike's theory is also WIFOM, albeit valid and possible.

[Haschel Cedricson]

I was going to do a vote count right now, but I've been informed that my girlfriend and I are going to a fancy restaurant for lunch. I'm not ignoring you, but you'll have to wait a little bit longer.

Sorry.

[The Fonz]

STOP WITHT THE XTOXM WIFOM CRAP! If he's scummy, we lynch him. Simple as pie.

Most people apparently think he's lying about his role. That's scummy if true.

[zwetschenwasser]

LAL is also not such an amazing strategy.

[The Fonz]

Oh, it is. But nonetheless, even people who don't support LAL consider lying a big scumtell.

[Jahudo]

Do you feel that Xtoxm is lying to us?

Yes and I think he needs to flavor claim and answer those other questions before we can know more. Also, I think the least likely Xtoxm role is Vanilla because he doesn't seem like the type of player to fake claim for being bored.

This aggression theory talk doesn't seem very useful but I don't see anyone using it as a crutch right now to avoid talking about the issues with players like X.

As far as a mayor, BM has a few joke/fluff posts (jester joke claim, really?) already but he's still asking questions which is good. Another good mayor might be Dr Pepper, it feels like he's in the game and interpreting already.

[The Fonz]

Jahudo, please rank the following possibilities:

Lynchproof scum
Non-lynchproof scum
Lynchproof town
Other town power

We know you have 'vanilla' bottom.

[Jahudo]

Most likely --->

non-lynchproof scum - Because I've seen him self-destruct and claim SK before and then say he would use his power to only kill scum.

other town power (vampire) - The claim ensures that some people will want to either lynch him or night kill him at some point, which is not a risk for this role. I don't think it's as likely because he can play good as town and why wouldn't he try a few days scumhunting and see if we're winning or not?
-Question for anyone who has played werewolf theme before: How many other types of roles can be resurrected?

lynchproof town - I'm less inclined to believe this because lynchproof sounds more believable to me as a L-1 claim. The way he claimed felt like he was baiting us to test him out instead of keep votes off him.

lynchproof scum - I feel like he would know that lynchproof doesn't confirm him as town, even though he said it would, so why gambit for that reason? This may go up depending on his answers.

other town power (all else) - I don't see how he'd want to draw attention to himself by claiming a power role and risk getting killed at night if we get to L-1 and he re-claims.

<--- Least likely

[The Fonz]

Thanks, Jahudo.

[zwetschenwasser]

Thanks, Jahudo.

That's it? Did you gain something from it?

[Percy]

A claim like that woudn't necessarally stop a lynch, but it wouldn't really matter much at that point anyway; plus then no one would be surprised when lynching you causes a no-lynch.

Personally, if someone I was suspicious of claimed unlynchable, that wouldn't do anything at all to dissuade me from voting them - it would probably make it worse. "Wouldn't necessarily" is a poor choice of words.

Why did the claim "have to come out", exactally?

I think we're in a better position now knowing what we know. I'm not saying that it would have come out eventually, as in, it was inevitabe; I'm saying that it should come out, and the best time was early. I think it's good that we know, but I would expect someone with that power to drop the claim and then go about trying to avoid being lynched just the same. The fact that he has dropped this and ran doesn't look good for him at all.

if he is protown, without a night action, why would he WANT to avoid being NKed? In that scenario, you absolutely do want to be NKed.

Are you saying that a protown unlynchable should want to be NKed? Why on earth would anyone protown

want

to be killed by any means?

Also,

Claim: Jester

...

This looks like I'm defending Xtomx, which is really not where I want to be. I just think that the claim had to come out, and I'm glad it came out now, and we should be looking at his playstyle rather than policy lynching him based on his claim.

I suggest you start contributing. You'll get my vote in 48 hours if you don't start scumhunting and analysing like a motherfucker.

I have an irresistable urge to lynch you right now.

The way you quoted my post made it sound like that comment was directed at you; it wasn't. I think that dropping a claim like that and then lurking throughout the rest of the day is scummy.


Also, still no posts from ZONEFACE and Firestarter.

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Wait, does anyone has meta on X? Is he the kind of player that can pull a gambit like that? Or is he a lousy player who might have a good power role but didn't know how to play it?

@ Mufasa: I suggest you stop voting yourself. It looks pretty suspicious and I consider it being scummy.

This strikes me as a scum giving advice to his scumbuddy.

FoS

Also, jester/vampire speculation should stop.

I know that speculations about these roles are usually bad for town, but who's to say that we don't have a vampire, specially with the werewolf theme?

I'm also leaning for The Fonz as major, so, for now,

Vote for Major: The Fonz

Why did the claim "have to come out", exactally?

I think we're in a better position now knowing what we know. I'm not saying that it would have come out eventually, as in, it was inevitabe; I'm saying that it should come out, and the best time was early. I think it's good that we know, but I would expect someone with that power to drop the claim and then go about trying to avoid being lynched just the same. The fact that he has dropped this and ran doesn't look good for him at all.

Hmm... I disagree with you. What good would make us to know the claim so early? If he's trule a unlynchable townie, claiming would only take him to a certain N1K. And, why would he want that? I can only think in a use for that as a way to protect another power role from a NK, but that isn't the case right now. And claiming to get the major role isn't good either, as other players have said, why would we want to have an unlynchable major that we can't disposse in case he's doing a bad job? That would be like having a dictator! Really, I can't see how his early claim is good. Also, in general, uncalled claims are never good.

[Jahudo]

@Shinnen: Have you read the various posts about Xtoxm's meta? A few of us have given small impressions. I don't think we should talk too much more about how we think X plays as town and scum, because we need to see how he's playing this game.

I got the feeling that Fonz didn't want to be mayor. The Fonz, is it just you don't think you would be a good mayor, or you don't want to accept mayor?

[Barrylocke]

Mayor Vote: Yosarian2

I actually think he might make a good mayor. He seems to post enough with good observations.

There's noone Im really suspicious of at the moment besides X, but I also think that theres not much else to say about him besides what I've already mentioned. I still cant help but think that maybe he was trying to generate discussion early on, but other people have mentioned that he can have an unusual playing style. Are their any links to games that he's played in that show notable examples to this?

[The Fonz]

Thanks, Jahudo.

That's it? Did you gain something from it?

Yes.

l.

if he is protown, without a night action, why would he WANT to avoid being NKed? In that scenario, you absolutely do want to be NKed.

Are you saying that a protown unlynchable should want to be NKed? Why on earth would anyone protown

want

to be killed by any means?

Uh, ANYONE who is town and not a mason or role with a night action should want to be nightkilled. Duh.

This looks like I'm defending Xtomx, which is really not where I want to be. I just think that the claim had to come out, and I'm glad it came out now, and we should be looking at his playstyle rather than policy lynching him based on his claim.

I suggest you start contributing. You'll get my vote in 48 hours if you don't start scumhunting and analysing like a motherfucker.

I have an irresistable urge to lynch you right now.

The way you quoted my post made it sound like that comment was directed at you; it wasn't. I think that dropping a claim like that and then lurking throughout the rest of the day is scummy.

Uh, no it doesn't make it sound like that at all. It makes it sound like BM thinks your comment is scummy. And I agree.

[The Fonz]

I got the feeling that Fonz didn't want to be mayor. The Fonz, is it just you don't think you would be a good mayor, or you don't want to accept mayor?

Oh, I don't think I'd be terrible as mayor or anything. But, my objection to me as mayor is basically the same as my objection to Yos as mayor. Myself and Yos will produce enough content and be prominent enough for y'all to get a read on regardless.

I'd rather it went to someone who has good ideas, but is characteristically a bit more reticent, and unused to being in the spotlight. The advantages of this is a) a player who is pretty good, but can sometimes be ignored gets more chance to influence things and b) it's easier for the rest of us to get a read on said player. So, in my mind that's win-win whether that player is town or scum. I have no particular fear of a scum mayor (quite difficult for a scum to know how to play it) unless that player is a noted manipulator, like you-know-who.

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Oh, I see. Well, you were giving me good pro-town vibes, but well (you're still giving those vibes, btw).

Unvote for major

Also, @Jahudo: I saw some comments on his meta, but I wanted the opinion on this exact matter of someone who has played before with him. Is he capable of doing such gamble?

Uh, ANYONE who is town and not a mason or role with a night action should want to be nightkilled. Duh.

I agree with this one. Why? Because if a vanilla townie doesn't get NK, it means (likely) that a power role gets NK. And, it's better for town to have power roles. So, it's better than a vanilla townie dies in the night rather than a power role.

[Juls]

I have caught up to the top of this page (page 8). I still need to read this page but I have to go now. Before I do though, I want to:

Unvote Mayor: BM, Vote Mayor: The Fonz

I know you don't want it but I think you are the most protown at this point. I don't think BM is necessarily anti-town but I like the way The Fonz is playing.

[Yosarian2]

I got the feeling that Fonz didn't want to be mayor. The Fonz, is it just you don't think you would be a good mayor, or you don't want to accept mayor?

Oh, I don't think I'd be terrible as mayor or anything. But, my objection to me as mayor is basically the same as my objection to Yos as mayor. Myself and Yos will produce enough content and be prominent enough for y'all to get a read on regardless.

I'd rather it went to someone who has good ideas, but is characteristically a bit more reticent, and unused to being in the spotlight. The advantages of this is a) a player who is pretty good, but can sometimes be ignored gets more chance to influence things and b) it's easier for the rest of us to get a read on said player. So, in my mind that's win-win whether that player is town or scum. I have no particular fear of a scum mayor (quite difficult for a scum to know how to play it) unless that player is a noted manipulator, like you-know-who.

That's an interesting theory, Fonz, but personally, all I'm worried about is getting someone as mayor who's not scum, so I'm pretty much just going to vote for someone who I think looks most pro-town (or myself, but I don't really expect to be elected mayor today and that's fine).

In my mind, a town mayor, no matter who it is, would be at best a small bonus to the town; while a scum mayor, especally as they coudl be mayor for the rest of the game, could be absolutly disastorous; every lynch the scum would have a better chance to get a mislynch, and in endgame the game could basically end a full day earlier then normal.

[The Fonz]

I think the risk of a scum mayor is overrated. At least, at this early stage. Whoever is mayor will be under particular pressure to scumhunt successfully. I don't see how it's possible a scum mayor could survive to endgame without some serious bussing- and if they want to bus, that's fine by me.

[Juls]

I don't think a risk of a scum player is as bad as an illogical town player. Because the level of scrutiny that player will be under might cause them to be lynched for bad votes. I would rather the most protown and most logical players to be mayor.

[The Fonz]

Well, that's true.

Vote ShadowKnight or Dr. Pepper.

[Shadow Knight]

I'll admit I'm curious. Are you advocating my lynch or my candidacy and more importantly, why?

[Yosarian2]

I think the risk of a scum mayor is overrated. At least, at this early stage. Whoever is mayor will be under particular pressure to scumhunt successfully. I don't see how it's possible a scum mayor could survive to endgame without some serious bussing- and if they want to bus, that's fine by me.

Eh...I donno, even at this early stage, an extra vote for the scum can be pretty bad. I mean, what you're saying makes sense, but I generally consider double-voter to be an ability that is pretty weak for a pro-town person but really, really dangerous in the hands of a scum. And, honestly, I'm not really sure about your logic here; are you really suggesting that if the mayor dosn't lynch scum in the first few days we'll just automatically lynch him for it?

I do agree about the risk of an illogical town player being mayor, in any case.