Mini 774: Case Closed Mafia (One Truth Prevails!)

[Firestarter]

Firestarter does seem a bit off. Not to play both sides of the fence, but he is saying a lot of bad stuff about you yet hasn't revoted you. His quick retraction (which he defended as voting too soon) is not enough to warrant a vote, but I am looking at him, so don't call me tunnel-visioned even though I've mostly gone after you so far.

Hang on for a second...

Ive explained why i retracted my vote, its as clear as day.

Other than what Ive explained, how else am I "off?

[Sajin]

@millar13- seriously? The reason for a few slip ups was a couple of fingers not working correctly? The mind is what writes sir. You said in the first few pages that FOSing is a defensive mechanism....yet that all you have done all game. So by your own logic, your being defensive, yes? I am however still waiting for the couple plain sight lurkers and no posters before proceeding.

@firestarter, post 100- The reason its off is because your reasoning for backing off is my post. Yet, you responded to my post your referencing THEN voted him THEN unvoted him. Your rationalization of the situation does not work with the post order....and it looks odd. His scummyness should not matter if we are indeed waiting for the lurkers to post.

@Battousai- I like your post 85, but I do think your dredging a little much out of the possible words/realtionships. Possibly not.

@SC- Your analyisis is super critical, but I cannot find fault with it atm.

@Korlash- Your still plain sight lurking to me.

to mod,

/prod

on the people who have only posted for confirmation?

[Korlash]

@Korlash- Your still plain sight lurking to me.

I'm 'still'? Sorry I must be mistaken about he definition of the word 'still' as in order for me to 'still' be something to you you would have had to have made reference to it in the past. Did you and I just missed it or what?

And uh, yeah I kinda am, but I'm doing it in most of my games. But uh, 'lurking' isn't the right word to use on page 5. especially as I posted less then... what... 30 hours ago... that's barely prod worthy much less lurking. Don't falsely accuse people of shit will ya.

36- Korlash disagrees and says millar can't be trying to start serious discussion if I already started it and claim “Johnny”? Was twisting words.

Could you comment on the fact that millar called me suspicious for applying tactics, which he saw as me being nervous in RVS/starting discussion to get out, and the whole not voting in RVS

Johnny was directed at firestarter... it's a lame fantastic 4 reference... ha ha ha...

I don't actually understand what you want me to comment on... It doesnt seem like a question I can answer and uh... I really don't see what or how I can comment on what you're talking about in this bold. Would you mind clearifying it for me?

38- Korlash explains his last post. Said my vote was me starting discussion and thus when Millar FOS'd me he can't start something that already started and since that part of the argument is false he doesn't care about the rest of SC's argument.

Why do you not think that Millar not participating in the RVS is a tactic?

Did I say that? If so where. If not why are you putting words in my mouth?

At the moment I have only belive that these four players (including myself) have brought anything really solid to the game:

-Strangecoug
-Millar13
-Battousai
-FireStarter

the rest seem to be either Active Lurking, with the odd "I am still here post" or just off the radar completly. At the moment null tells is ultimatley all I have been given so far, and quite often in games it is only the null tells and little things that the mafia actually give away. Sometimes you have to be a little OTT and see the impossible as possible.

As much as I love seeing lurker talk on page five I think you better let the game come alive before you start boiling the town into an active pot and an inactive pot.

i personally like seeing that i'm not the most active person in a thread for a change... it's refreshing...

[Firestarter]

Its ok Sajin, enough people have posted now, and Ill do, again, what I said I'd do...
One thing town should NOT do, is do something they said they wouldn't..

VOTE: millar13

[millar13]

Okay this is getting a little out of hand. First, I apologize for not posting sooner. I was waiting (yeah, lurking.. whatever you want to call it) for this argument (Millar being accused of starting seriousness when Millar accused Battousai of being serious) to actually get somewhere but that's probably not going to happen.

So instead of waiting for someone to push this crappy argument any further, I'd like to ask Millar a question or two:

@

Millar13

, should the random voting stage have ended when Battousai made a vote based on a sensical reason? If so, why does scum want to end the random voting stage with a serious vote? Also, I believe StrangerCoug asked this a couple times before but, what's really so wrong with making a serious vote? Sure, you've only seen scum do it, but why can't Town do it too? And finally, why did you choose not to participate in the random voting stage yet you say Town shouldn't feel awkward in it? What's your reason for not participating?

Q) Why didn't I take part in the random voting stage?
A) Previous experience, has shown me that people form "stand-offs" in the RVS for no reason other than random votes. For that reason, I don't think the RVS should even exist.

However it does so.

A) There is nothing wrong with town ending the RVS, I think I have since commented that I don't think Battousai is scummy.

There is nothing wrong with ending the RVS, but there is a number of way you can go about it. I just wrote it how I saw it

Sajin:
"@millar13- seriously? The reason for a few slip ups was a couple of fingers not working correctly? The mind is what writes sir. You said in the first few pages that FOSing is a defensive mechanism....yet that all you have done all game. So by your own logic, your being defensive, yes? I am however still waiting for the couple plain sight lurkers and no posters before proceeding."

I agree with you here, I am playing defensive. I don't intend to be all guns blazing until we have a complete active field of play.

As for you FireStarter, I want to know how many more times you will vote and unvote for me on Day 1...because its is just refreshing.

[Firestarter]

As for you FireStarter, I want to know how many more times you will vote and unvote for me on Day 1...because its is just refreshing.

At the moment, there is absolutely no reason to take my vote from you.

[millar13]

I knew your vote would stay on me, from the first time you un-voted me. The needless uvotes in-between just shows me that you may just be a townie who doesn't actually have full confidence in his scum-hunting abilities. In fact the more I think about it, it isn't that your coming off scummy but more that you just aren't a very good townie.

[Isacc]

Alright, sorry for not starting sooner. Been too busy. Easter, birthday, etc.

Let's get this going. Gonna try out a new playstyle here, so be prepared lol =P

Hmm... Ok..

I agreed that the other players should at least post on whats been happening here before anything else happens...

UNVOTE: millar13

MAJOR FoS: millar13

Firestarter is scum. Typo's are not scumtells, nor is bad wording.

You unvoted not because people weren't posting, but because you were unsure as to whether or not you were on a popular enough wagon.

Your attitude is anti-town.


Firestarter claims null-tells can't give reads. Have you meta'd Millar yet? If so, you should know that he is an Empking, or a Zwet, meaning that most of the stuff you are accusing him of are null-tells.

Millar seems town to me. Going off attitude here, not actions (often more telling, as actions can be gambits or foolishness, but attitude usually remains constant).

Korlash seems town to me.

Anywho.

Vote: Firestarter

[Firestarter]

We just found millar13's scumbuddy...

[millar13]

Isaac:
"Firestarter claims null-tells can't give reads. Have you meta'd Millar yet?

If so, you should know that he is an Empking, or a Zwet

, meaning that most of the stuff you are accusing him of are null-tells."

Your not the first to make that point, and I have feeling you won't be the last.

But seriously, this post says it all.

Firestarter:
"We just found millar13's scumbuddy..."

Where did that come from? The only thing that, that post actually says is that a player actually has looked at the game and seen myself as a town player and you as scum. There isn't actually anything to suggest we are connected.

We just found millar13's scumbuddy translates:

Someone else apart from millar thinks I have scum traits....I cant more than one person suspects me, lets call scumbuddy now in order to "save my skin"

That post as very scummy indeed

[Isacc]

Here is my problem with Firestarter's arguments, which his most recent post exemplifies quite nicely.

He is jumping opportunistically on everything that could minorly be considered a scumtell without actually analyzing the reality of the situation.

Take his most recent accusation for example (the post directly above mine).

How likely would it be that as a scumbuddy, I would jump out and openly defend my partner? Yes, it may seem like a scumbuddy would

want

to defend a scum partner, however this is one of the oldest tells in the book and any scum would have to be mildly retarded in order to actually just jump out and defend a buddy.

Firestarter, your posts seek to generalize only the most obvious (and therefore unlikely) scumtells.


Also, note that he did not refute or acknowledge any of my arguments, merely just lumped me together with Millar.

[Battousai]

Vote: Firestarter

for post 108, OMGUS. That along with your waiting to vote seems scummiest to me right now.

Korlash-

don't actually understand what you want me to comment on... It doesnt seem like a question I can answer and uh... I really don't see what or how I can comment on what you're talking about in this bold. Would you mind clearifying it for me?

and

Did I say that? If so where. If not why are you putting words in my mouth?

First off, you implyed you believed not voting in the RVS is not a tactic by saying I started acting serious first. It is tied to my above quote where I asked you to comment on millar's lack of a vote in the RVS to see what your actual stance was and not guess it from what you implyed. I'll make the questions simplier:

1) Do you feel not participating in the RVS with a vote is a tactic, regardless of alignment?

2) If so, would my vote on him for this tactic still be considered "starting it"?

[millar13]

Is Post 111 all aimed at Korlash?

[Firestarter]

Vote: Firestarter

for post 108, OMGUS.

That along with your waiting to vote seems scummiest to me right now.

And how do you explain millar13 not even placing a vote yet?

Isaac has only looked at my posts, and turned them into something they are not.

He seems to go on meta for millar13, which is easy for a scumbuddy to summons up.
AND particularly if he's not going to look at other players meta's.
Its opportunistic at the least imo.

Ignoring millars actions in this game is extraordinarily baffling.. or scummy.

[millar13]

Vote: Firestarter

for post 108, OMGUS.

That along with your waiting to vote seems scummiest to me right now.

And how do you explain millar13 not even placing a vote yet?

Isaac has only looked at my posts, and turned them into something they are not.

He seems to go on meta for millar13, which is easy for a scumbuddy to summons up.
AND particularly if he's not going to look at other players meta's.
Its opportunistic at the least imo.

Ignoring millars actions in this game is extraordinarily baffling.. or scummy.

He has done nothing, but read them as they are. Either you haven't quite comprehended what you have written or you have actually slipped up along the way. Why haven't I voted yet...well I guess you can I was biding my time and now I think you certainly are scum. How you reacted to just myself pointing the finger was one thing, but now that two others are also pointing you have be cut right open.

Vote:Firestarter

[millar13]

Also I would like to know where both Korlash and Strangecoug stand at the moment, considering these are the only other active two that really have contributed anything of reall value thus far to this game

[Firestarter]

1.

He has done nothing, but read them as they are.

Either you haven't quite comprehended what you have written or you have actually slipped up along the way.

2.

Why haven't I voted yet...well I guess you can I was biding my time and now I think you certainly are scum.

3.

How you reacted to just myself pointing the finger was one thing, but now that two others are also pointing you have be cut right open.

1.

Please try to explain to me what on gods earth you've just written in the bolded part of section 1 of your post?
Are you telling me

you dont know

why your voting for me?

2.

What were you biding your time for?
Were you waiting for another player to post something just so you could hop on?
Again, what you are doing is utterly scummy and Im now convinced your scum.
* First off you come up with mafia-wiki tells early game, then you start to
* apply them to votes made in the RVS. You then suggest with fuck-all
* info that SC is town and Im scum.
* Afterwards you say that any tells you have are null tells?
* Throw into the mix that your blaming 2 broken fingers on writing the
* wrong words and that sometimes you need to act OTT at times in
* games for whatever reason, I dunno..

3.

You say I need to be cut right open... Go ahead millar13, in your own words, whatever use that'll do, post your case aginst me.
Ill refute everything you have to say scum.

And may I also remind you and the rest of the players that you first mentioned me & the word scum in only your 5th post of the game, me having made only 4, all in the RVS.

So I want your case, in full and from the beginning please...

[millar13]

You want my case....haven't you read anything I have posted earlier.
Haven't you read Battousai's post or Isaac's post.

The case is a collective case, and one that has grown since the start of the game. Nothing has changed, nothing knew has come to light. And you don't have the power to demand anything from me. If you don't know why you are seen as scum now, then I doubt you ever will.

[Firestarter]

You want my case....haven't you read anything I have posted earlier.
Haven't you read Battousai's post or Isaac's post.

The case is a collective case, and one that has grown since the start of the game. Nothing has changed, nothing knew has come to light. And you don't have the power to demand anything from me. If you don't know why you are seen as scum now, then I doubt you ever will.

Your refusing?

I want to see your case on me in 1 post, clear & concise.

[millar13]

I'm not refusing, I am just inidicating that you case is long-running. It hasn't stopped and it still continues. If you clearly believe that a strong case doesn't already exist against you then you are clearly deluded. Your own posts are very much a key part of this case. You in many ways have proven to be your own worst enemy.

You want a full case on me?

Maybe I should make the demand on you...but that would be fickle wouldn't it?

[millar13]

Also don't you want a case from your other two accusers...or is it quite clear that their cases have actually built up from our interactions?

[Firestarter]

millar13...

You called me scum in your 5th post.

Ive addressed the concerns brought by other players.

But I want

your case on me...

Your continuing refusal aides your already scummy play.

I want to see your case on me...
Dont fuck around or try to stall again.

[Korlash]

First off, you implyed you believed not voting in the RVS is not a tactic by saying I started acting serious first. It is tied to my above quote where I asked you to comment on millar's lack of a vote in the RVS to see what your actual stance was and not guess it from what you implyed. I'll make the questions simplier:

1) Do you feel not participating in the RVS with a vote is a tactic, regardless of alignment?

2) If so, would my vote on him for this tactic still be considered "starting it"?

1) No. Much like Charlie in Dead Poet's Excersising your right not to vote is the same as making one, and as voting in the random stage is not so much a tactic as it's called random and real tactics can't be random, if you expect them to be effective, I would have to say not voting would also be considered a random act in that stage. So yeah long story short, no I don't.

2) Sure would. But that's just because I believe no votes are equal to votes in the Random Stage. To someone else it might be a different answer.

Korlash seems town to me.

Why?

Also I would like to know where both Korlash and Strangecoug stand at the moment, considering these are the only other active two that really have contributed anything of reall value thus far to this game

Alright, I have dobts about this new Firestarter wagon. For very few but drastic reasons.

1) Issac's 107:

Firestarter is scum. Typo's are not scumtells, nor is bad wording.

You unvoted not because people weren't posting, but because you were unsure as to whether or not you were on a popular enough wagon.

Your attitude is anti-town.

Bad wording can be scum tells. Real typos aren't but I suppose some scum could use that excuse to cover up slips. I find it really weird you would put this immediately after "Fire starter is scum"... How is this hard evidence he is scum?

How the hell do you know why firestarter did something?

And finally, how is his attitude anti-town in you opinion?

2) issac's 110:

He is jumping opportunistically on everything that could minorly be considered a scumtell without actually analyzing the reality of the situation.

The same can be said about you. You took firestarter's actions and instead of analysing them made up what you thought might be the truth and tried to pass them off as factual. You called his attitude anti-town but did not show why. And you called him flat out scum with some stupid little tid bit following it that i can't honestly see proving anything, much less justifying a claim of that sort.

So i guess my real problem is with Issac, not necessarily Firestarter's wagon. i have issues with him as well though...

He seems to go on meta for millar13, which is easy for a scumbuddy to summons up.
AND particularly if he's not going to look at other players meta's.
Its opportunistic at the least imo.

... It's as easy for a scum buddy to find as a townie. And how in the hell is meta usage opprotunistic? you're arguements are kinda stupid you know.

and would you mind actually commenting on Issac's 107?

You want my case....haven't you read anything I have posted earlier.
Haven't you read Battousai's post or Isaac's post.

The case is a collective case, and one that has grown since the start of the game. Nothing has changed, nothing knew has come to light. And you don't have the power to demand anything from me. If you don't know why you are seen as scum now, then I doubt you ever will.

... Alright then I demand your case. You call it a collective case, that means there is no real compilation of it. If you truely believed in your "case" and you truely felt Fire was scum you should be more then happy to throw a huge awesome case in his face. Instead you ignore it and act like you are somehow more important then him. and lynching someone that doesn't know why he is being lynchd is not a town act. That's proof you want him dead regardless of his alignment as you aren't interested in hearing his defense.

[Firestarter]

Ok, millar13, you have 2 hours to post your case on me, Ill be gone for this time.

Next time I log on, I want to see your clear & concise case, in 1 post, got it?

[Korlash]

Also don't you want a case from your other two accusers...or is it quite clear that their cases have actually built up from our interactions?

You know missing the obvious is kinda detrimental to your "not posting your case" argument. last I checked Fire is voting you, that makes you his prime suspect. No shit he want's to see YOUR case on him.

@ Fire: This whole misuse of bolding is really annoying... would you mind posting normally? Thanks...