MKM II GAME OVER

[populartajo]

What's confusing to me right now is that although I'm a member of bowser's army, which has a pretty specific townie win condition, the powers granted by the items available to us for purchase are...

...

(how to put this in a way only townies should understand)

...

Unexpected.

Exactly.

Mod edit
Visible Votecount

-zwetschenwasser (4): populartajo, pacman281292, AceMarksman, Shinnen_no_Me
-populartajo (2): qwints, ortolan
-AceMarksman (3): caf19, zwetschenwasser, Gorrad
-Shinnen_no_Me (2): Riceballtail, Surye
-Dubya (1): Shadow Knight
-Gorrad (1): Empking

Not voting (4): killa seven, Moratorium, Dubya, Cream147

With 17 alive it takes 9 real votes to lynch.

[populartajo]

Yeah, how so Zwet?

@Surye: So, I'm scum because I voted for zwet, after he slipped like that? Sorry, I do find suspicious his slip (the slip that he didn't know alignment of bowser army), but after a long thought, I'm thinking that zwet is not likely scum but third party. One way or another, I don't think he knew who the town was, hence he's not town.

Could you please point me to this slip you are talking about?

[Shadow Knight]

I read my PM. Paused. Read the PM again. Checked the flavor of the game. Went "Ohhh, duh." Total elapsed time: roughly 30 seconds.

[populartajo]

Wait a second.
We have items that only Bowser's Army know how they work.
Can we massively confirm people with this?

[populartajo]

I read my PM. Paused. Read the PM again. Checked the flavor of the game. Went "Ohhh, duh." Total elapsed time: roughly 30 seconds.

Kay. Anyone not knowing the flavour or a little less "intelligent" than you, could still be confused about his role?

[Shadow Knight]

The flavor is posted on page one. How could anyone not know it?

[populartajo]

The flavor is posted on page one. How could anyone not know it?

Someone who hasnt read it before checking his PM, like me?

[Shadow Knight]

If you got a role PM that made you confused, would you not PM the mod or read the flavor from the opening posts before running in here and posting something?

[populartajo]

If you got a role PM that made you confused, would you not PM the mod or read the flavor from the opening posts before running in here and posting something?

I actually PMed the mod.
His answer was "I cant tell you"
Then I thought for some minutes, checked the flavour for the first time in OP and then realized that it was pretty clear that Bowser's Army was the uninformed majority.
But still at that point, I was like really wondering if I really really was town. The fact that I got a PM with Bowser's Army (aka the bad guys) role kinda influenced. Why are you so certain and why do you think that a player that could be confused about this is likely to be scum?
.........
Do you agree with post 178?

[Shadow Knight]

I don't recall saying that confusion = scum. But *causing* confusion is a scummy thing to do. I would say we can possibly confirm 4 people.

[populartajo]

vote Surye

I didn't have any confusion about which side I'm on and it feels like you're trying too hard to find something scummy so soon into this game.

Really, Shadow Knight?

And you are not answering the question in 178 why?

[Moratorium]

Wait a second.
We have items that only Bowser's Army know how they work.
Can we massively confirm people with this?

The unimaginative answer to this is something like "Pick four people, ask them to paraphrase the powers of the four Bowser's Army items".

Pro: Four players are either confirmed or outed.

Con: The item powers are revealed to all.

[zwetschenwasser]

Who wants to do the dice rolls?

[populartajo]

Wait a second.
We have items that only Bowser's Army know how they work.
Can we massively confirm people with this?

The unimaginative answer to this is something like "Pick four people, ask them to paraphrase the powers of the four Bowser's Army items".

Pro: Four players are either confirmed or outed.

Con: The item powers are revealed to all.

Actually, why would we only confirm or out 4 players?
I can think in 17 different questions to confirm every player here.

[Moratorium]

Sounds good to me.

[Moratorium]

So is the assumption here that basically Law didn't put anything in the scum role pm's that says "Hey, by the way, in case town tries this tactic, here's the list of items that town can buy and their powers"?

(started taking a shower, and this thought came to me)

[Surye]

When worded properly, we can confirm the questioner and answer-er, given the descriptions. I have no issue with that, however there's one item I think will be renderer less useful. Ultimately though, given the nature of power-roles in MKMI and items, the general town abilities are not hard to guess.

[AceMarksman]

OK, tajo has gotten his town points back, while Shaddow Knight has gained scum points.

Still, my vote stands on zwet, as his seemingly sincere shock seems likely to come from a thrid party.

[AceMarksman]

EBWOP: posted the above when I was at the bottom of page seven, which I thought was the last page, so it sounds rather non-sequitur Whups.

[AceMarksman]

Wait a second.
We have items that only Bowser's Army know how they work.
Can we massively confirm people with this?

No, because there are some roles, like mine, that aren't allowed to buy items.

[caf19]

So is the assumption here that basically Law didn't put anything in the scum role pm's that says "Hey, by the way, in case town tries this tactic, here's the list of items that town can buy and their powers"?

Well, I suppose that if we get 17 correct answers then we didn't really lose anything.

No, because there are some roles, like mine, that aren't allowed to buy items.

Does this mean you don't know what they do?

Item questioning seems like a good tactic currently, if we can think up enough questions to make it work. Even if we do end up with a few players claiming not to have been given knowledge of the items, we can just separate them off first and then question everyone else. It's probably not enough to nail scum on its own but it'll give us info.

[AceMarksman]

Item questioning seems like a good tactic currently, if we can think up enough questions to make it work. Even if we do end up with a few players claiming not to have been given knowledge of the items, we can just separate them off first and then question everyone else. It's probably not enough to nail scum on its own but it'll give us info.

It'll definately give us a good confirmed townies pool, and make catching scum easier.

[qwints]

I'm fine with the item quizzing.

[pacman281292]

...HA! Lawrencelot pulled a Space Monkey on us! I completely fell for it, too. I thought I was scum.

Mod: NICE one

As much as I hate to say it, Zwet's in the clear this game. Mafia would know that the Army was the uninformed and therefore NOT make that slip. Town that thought they were scum? That's right up their alley.

Unvote, Vote: AceMarksman

FoS: Shinnen_no_Me

whoa... good point.
But this can lead to WIFOM. Smeone can intentionally slip to get that argument. Or...
Ouch. I hate WIFOM.
My conclussion: zwet's slip might have been confusion (nulltell, remember he's zwet), Gorrad's answer is nulltell.

Surye: Do you think this quote make it clear that MKers are the invaders/ambigious/clear that BA are the invaders?

After the successful defence against the attack of Bowser and his army (link), the people of the Mushroom Kingdom

decide to strike back and get rid of Bowser’s army once and for all. They plan an assault on Bowser’s Castle

, the residence of the now slain King of the Koopas. After the preparations they successfully get inside the castle,

because without their great leader the guard turns out to be very ineffective. But inside, it is so dark that nobody can see who is who.

Again, everybody has to find out who is who in order to kill who they want to kill.

Maybe the inhabitants of this castle aren’t so helpless after all...

That's pretty clear to me. MK are the invaders. I realized it quickly, after a double reread of that. Keys for that are on bold.

Wait a second.
We have items that only Bowser's Army know how they work.
Can we massively confirm people with this?

No. That's too risky, as:
a) Law may have thought about that and he would have placed a disincourager for such claims
b) We get some confirmations only if a) doesn't apply, and we get it for our possibility of launching surprise attacks to MK.

[AceMarksman]

pacman, your b) is the only legit reason for not item claiming. Is there an item that won't ruin the game for us (and to answer caf, because I can't buy items, I don't know what they do either)