Mini 774: Case Closed Mafia (One Truth Prevails!)

[Firestarter]

MOD: apologies for the bolding right after your post, but its a wee bit pedantic don't you think?

I like how firestarter bolds right after the mod warns about it....

?

******************

I answer all your questions...so be just deal with it. You already have you answers.
I am not giving you an in-depth 101 on how I play this game and what tactics I used to scum-hunt. This isn't just about you or me so deal with.

From now on I am IGNORING you. And yes you did twist me words especially concerning the "concrete" bit. Stop with your spin and accept your fate

No, you did not answer all my questions.
You come across as "chastising" in some of your statements, and not answering my questions. There is a huge difference.

I am in no way looking for you to divulge your tactics for scumhunting, please point out where I made that request, instead of just blurting out more accusations and word-twisting.
Post by post, you've continually made accusations against me, as early as in the RVS, and blankly refuse to follow them up with any sort of reasoning...

And your entirely free to ignore me millar13, but it does not bode well for your "case"...
Its clear you cannot answer the questions Ive posed, questions that stem from YOUR case.
What fate is that millar.. lynching?
Im not afraid to be lynched if it catches scum.
And I will be posting a case on you shortly.


I however, will not be ignoring you.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: I generally use bold capitals for emphasis, so if I forget about what you said could you unbold what you don't want bolded for me?

From now on I am IGNORING you.

I understand your frustration, but this is not a good strategy in Mafia.

From what I see at this point, Firestarter and millar13 might as well be bussing each other. Firestarter is going downhill at this point, and while millar13's gotten better, there are still some black marks on him that I'm not going to forget about anytime soon.

Unvote: millar13
Vote: Firestarter

. This is L-2.

[Firestarter]

I see more unreasoned accusations SC...

Firestarter is going downhill... twice now you've said it.

Any particular reasons?

And would you not wait till I post my case on millar13 before changing your vote?

Or is it merely tactical?

[Sajin]

confirm vote firestarter

Still at 2 below

I think we get more information out of a firestarter lynch at this point.

[Battousai]

Firestarter, come on. He answered all of your questions. You just didn't get the answers you wanted. I think the main problem you have is reading compehension. One sentance millar13 writes can be influenced by others he has written before/after, especially question 3. He didn't say the word mannerism, but infered it by talking about the way you posted (insults and what not).

Also, how are all the lurkers (afatchic, dubya) and those who haven't commented much on the firstarter v millar13 cases (and taken a stance).

Mod: Could you please prod dubya and afatchic if you haven't? And if you have, are replacements needed?

[StrangerCoug]

I see more unreasoned accusations SC...

Firestarter is going downhill... twice now you've said it.

Any particular reasons?

Largely millar13's case. Yes, I just accused him of bussing you (and vice versa ), but as I said, the case is good. I'm looking at #126 minus the first paragraph. Most of what concerns me about millar13 is the early part of this game. You, on the other hand, have been responding very poorly to pressure lately

And would you not wait till I post my case on millar13 before changing your vote?

Or is it merely tactical?

Remember that I was voting millar13 before I switched to you. If I believe that my top two suspects are equally scummy, I will vote the person closer to getting lynched so my vote does not act as dead weight. (If they're tied, I'll pick the one I'm more confident in.) I wait for nobody.

[Isacc]

I see more unreasoned accusations SC...

Firestarter is going downhill... twice now you've said it.

Any particular reasons?

And would you not wait till I post my case on millar13 before changing your vote?

Or is it merely tactical?

You see more unreasoned accusations?

Funny, because here I see more OMGUS.

[Isacc]

I would post a more content-rich post, however Millar seems to be doing well enough on his own, and we all know that Firestarter won't pay any attention to me anyways (as he still never even countered or acknowledged my original arguments against him).

[millar13]

Firestarter, come on. He answered all of your questions. You just didn't get the answers you wanted. I think the main problem you have is reading compehension. One sentance millar13 writes can be influenced by others he has written before/after, especially question 3. He didn't say the word mannerism, but infered it by talking about the way you posted (insults and what not).

Also, how are all the lurkers (afatchic, dubya) and those who haven't commented much on the firstarter v millar13 cases (and taken a stance).

Mod: Could you please prod dubya and afatchic if you haven't? And if you have, are replacements needed?

PRAISE THE LORD! I am glad I am not the only onto to see this. Especially the this point "

He answered all of your questions. You just didn't get the answers you wanted.

" and the reason why you point is most valuable, is the fact that you also have your suspicions on me as well. Un-Bias view.

I would post a more content-rich post, however Millar seems to be doing well enough on his own, and we all know that Firestarter won't pay any attention to me anyways (as he still never even countered or acknowledged my original arguments against him).

Firestarter I would like to see a case for Isacc, considering you accused him of being my scumbuddy. I won't give you a deadline, so don't worry to much about how long you take.

[Firestarter]

@ Isaac...

I would post a more content-rich post, however Millar seems to be doing well enough on his own, and we all know that Firestarter won't pay any attention to me anyways (as he still never even countered or acknowledged my original arguments against him).

Just goes to show how much your reading the game Isaac....
Did you by any chance read post 131??

I guess you didn't, I imagine you may have missed some other posts too...
Go back and read..

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@ Sajin

confirm vote firestarter

Still at 2 below

I think we get more information out of a firestarter lynch at this point.

Why did you feel it necessary to confirm your vote?

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@ Battousai

Firestarter, come on. He answered all of your questions. You just didn't get the answers you wanted. I think the main problem you have is reading compehension.

Here are my questions, its quite obvious now I need help, as you seem to know where the actual answers are hidden to these, would you mind pointing them out for me?

1.

How do you percieve me more than being vanilla townie from post 121?

2.

How am I clearly sitting on some sort of power position?

3.

You say you doubt me as pro-town, then you say Im "Concrete Scum"... Only scum can be concrete about a players alignment, I'd like to know how you came to this conclusion?

4.

How have you come to a conclusion that Ive only read certain posts?
I mean, most of your case has been explained in individual posts made in the game, yet you choose to ignore them...
And I take it you meant "Flawed" rather than "floored?
And I agree, it is flawed, and wrong.

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@ Strangercoug

Largely millar13's case. Yes, I just accused him of bussing you (and vice versa ), but as I said, the case is good. I'm looking at #126 minus the first paragraph. Most of what concerns me about millar13 is the early part of this game. You, on the other hand, have been responding very poorly to pressure lately.

When I flip town, does your "Idea" of millar & me bussing each other excuse him from a lynching?

You say Ive been responding poorly to pressure, and that Ive been going downhill...
At least have the balls to point to some examples, I cannot defend against the invisible.

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@ Isaac..

You see more unreasoned accusations?

Funny, because here I see more OMGUS.

Funny, there was a question in my post previous to this, it wasn't answered... But Im getting used to players NOT wanting to share any info they have/concoct.

I would post a more content-rich post, however Millar seems to be doing well enough on his own, and we all know that Firestarter won't pay any attention to me anyways (as he still never even countered or acknowledged my original arguments against him).

This roughly translates to....
I would add more to lynching Firestarter apart from my vote, but when millar13 succeeds with his case, I can go after him. Yippee!

********************************

Honestly, town, you gotta be blind..
Not only are you sitting in the sidelines doing nothing, but your watching others make accusations that they have hardly followed up on.
Also, when a request, or a question has been asked, its either been blankly refused, or overlooked without being answered.

********************************

I shall be posting my case on millar13 shortly, if anyone is remotely interested in what I have to say, Ill be back with said post

[Firestarter]

Firestarter I would like to see a case for Isacc, considering you accused him of being my scumbuddy. I won't give you a deadline, so don't worry to much about how long you take.

Isaac is on my list as scum also, I have a bad feeling about him, particularly the way he just pops in and posts.
If Im around later on, a case may be made.

[Isacc]

Just goes to show how much your reading the game Isaac....
Did you by any chance read post 131??

I guess you didn't, I imagine you may have missed some other posts too...
Go back and read..

This is beyond funny. Did I read post 131?

Yes. Maybe you would know this if

you

had read post 138 in which

I quoted post 131 and responded to it!

Now, who was the one not reading?

Funny, there was a question in my post previous to this, it wasn't answered... But Im getting used to players NOT wanting to share any info they have/concoct.

Funny, cause I'm pretty sure I answered your questions in post 138. Maybe you need to do some rereading.

[millar13]

Quote taken from Post 159

Firestarter:
"@ Battousai

Battousai wrote:
Firestarter, come on. He answered all of your questions. You just didn't get the answers you wanted. I think the main problem you have is reading compehension.


Here are my questions, its quite obvious now I need help, as you seem to know where the actual answers are hidden to these, would you mind pointing them out for me?

1. How do you percieve me more than being vanilla townie from post 121?
2. How am I clearly sitting on some sort of power position?
3. You say you doubt me as pro-town, then you say Im "Concrete Scum"... Only scum can be concrete about a players alignment, I'd like to know how you came to this conclusion?
4. How have you come to a conclusion that Ive only read certain posts?
I mean, most of your case has been explained in individual posts made in the game, yet you choose to ignore them...
And I take it you meant "Flawed" rather than "floored?
And I agree, it is flawed, and wrong.

Well it is clear that I actually have to spell out the answers for you, rather than you actually go through my post and actually realize they are pretty much already there.

Question 1. Was answered in Post 145:

Millar:
"1) It is quite clear that in fact you don't actually read all the posts, and you seem to pick out through the ones that suit you best. If you had read Strangecoug's Post 127. You will noticed that I actually admitted it wasn't actually a good opening and it was slightly floored.

Quote:
Millar13:
"in many ways the start was not good, but it was edited after the use of the bad language. I am not someone that really back it up, or see it as something that need to be used in these environments without good reason. I can see why you could see this as scum-play, but maybe it comes down to the fact that I couldn't believe that someone who was vanilla would actually think so highly of themselves, when in the majority of games. Mafia member have through their own realization or not shown to be "up their own arse" so too speak.

Other than that, I think my reasons to vote Firestarter are strong enough at the moment."[./quote]

Question 2. Was answered in Post 145 aswell:

Millar13:
"2) I didn't say you were sitting on one, but rather you are acting in a mannerism as if you were."

Maybe I answered this badly, and I admit it could have come out a lot better.

Question 3. Was answered in Post 145 aswell:

Millar13:
"Quote:
Firestarter:
"3. You say you doubt me as pro-town, then you say Im "Concrete Scum"... Only scum can be concrete about a players alignment, I'd like to know how you came to this conclusion?"


Could you twist me word anymore? What I actually said was.

Quote:
Millar:
"(I doubt you pro-town, so the assumption almost concretes scum)


This statement doesn't not mean that you are definetly scum, what it means if you read it all is that I don't see how you can be pro-town therefor as a simple pro-town you must (or at least seem) to be scum. You if you are not one, then you must be the other. Please don't twist my words or mis-quote again. Doing so is incredibly idoitic."

Now my big problem is

Question Four

althought to begin with it was a statment. Originally in Post 132 it was

Firestarter:
"4. There is,however, one part I can answer here, and its your accusation of me being offensive and frustrated.
Yes, I was frustrated because you refused to even say you'd post a case on me after I asked you. Twice.
If I was offensive, which I dont believe I was as I did not directly insult you, then I apologise.
Abusing someone or bringing their family members into a game is not something I ever do."

However, now the question is.

Firestarter:
"4. How have you come to a conclusion that Ive only read certain posts?
I mean, most of your case has been explained in individual posts made in the game, yet you choose to ignore them...
And I take it you meant "Flawed" rather than "floored?
And I agree, it is flawed, and wrong."

You know that means, you have actually put spin on your own points and changed them to make you look better.

You said:

Here are my questions, its quite obvious now I need help, as you seem to know where the actual answers are hidden to these, would you mind pointing them out for me?

Would you believe that they had already been answered?

[StrangerCoug]

@ Strangercoug

Largely millar13's case. Yes, I just accused him of bussing you (and vice versa ), but as I said, the case is good. I'm looking at #126 minus the first paragraph. Most of what concerns me about millar13 is the early part of this game. You, on the other hand, have been responding very poorly to pressure lately.

When I flip town, does your "Idea" of millar & me bussing each other excuse him from a lynching?

OK, Firestarter, what the hell? I did say that millar13's been getting better, but he's still suspicious in my mind; if he weren't, I would not have made the bussing accusation. If you die and flip town, there will still be stuff that I can get on millar13 for.

You say Ive been responding poorly to pressure, and that Ive been going downhill...
At least have the balls to point to some examples, I cannot defend against the invisible.

This is the first time I suspected you:

Hmm... Ok..

I agreed that the other players should at least post on whats been happening here before anything else happens...

UNVOTE: millar13

MAJOR FoS: millar13

I said you were too quick to retract your vote, and you said that you voted too quickly. I believe that much from you.

3.

Ultimately All means you have nothing to go on?
Ultimately is described in any dictionary as...

as the end result of a succession or process

I would have voted millar13 on this alone, but millar13 already did some things that set me off. Your hesitation to vote him when he was clearly acting scummy comes off to me as defending a scumbuddy, and we all know the bad that comes out of that.

We just found millar13's scumbuddy...

You said that this was directed at Isacc. Just from looking, this is pretty much OMGUS.

Lynch me, and when I flip town, lynch him.

Lining up lynches for the lose.

NOW do you think my accusations are unreasoned?

[millar13]

I never really comprehend 'bussing' SC can you explain what you mean?

[Sajin]

@Firestarter- I confirmed my vote because it was on you from the random voting stage still. I wanted to state that it was no longer random.

@millar13 "bussing" The act of acting hostile to scum about to be lynched in order to distance yourself from them. This is a negative term used to describe late joiners on a popular option vote (read lynch vote). It comes from the coloquial "throwing your friend under the bus" i.e. bussing.

[millar13]

Well considering now I know.

SC I don't think I am bussing at all, my attitude towards Firestarter really hasn't changed for the entire game. The fact that I was the first person to point to him, and the first person to bring any sort of view of scumminess sort of shows that. If you think it is because I wasn't the first too vote then your wrong. The truth is, that if I had voted first it wouldn't have been as effective or made as much sense as if I had actually waited for what my fellow town members had to say. If I am right, this is a team effort?

[Sajin]

You can still bus without having your attitue change. You could deliberately argue withsome d1, have one of you get lynched so that the other could remain clear and possibly get protections and stuff. Your attitude not changing in this reguard does not clear the act.

[StrangerCoug]

SC I don't think I am bussing at all, my attitude towards Firestarter really hasn't changed for the entire game. The fact that I was the first person to point to him, and the first person to bring any sort of view of scumminess sort of shows that. If you think it is because I wasn't the first too vote then your wrong. The truth is, that if I had voted first it wouldn't have been as effective or made as much sense as if I had actually waited for what my fellow town members had to say. If I am right, this is a team effort?

Apparently, Sajin defines bussing a little more strictly than I do. I think your case on Firestarter is great, and I believe most of it, but you're doing things yourself that's setting off alarms. That's all I think I need for a bussing accusation—you can be the first person to vote somebody and still be bussing that person.

[Sajin]

My spelling=fail last post >< I did not preview


There is not any reason to "line up" lynches. Doing so is prejudicial to one day and favors scum because your voting based on less information. Thats not to say someone should not be suggested to be lynched on a future day. But saying you want these next 2 people lynched then not listening to any new information in between is very scummy indeed.

[Firestarter]

Case on millar13

Post 21

I don't vote in the random stage, but HIYA

Post 23

Vote: Millar13

for taking an anti-town policy in order to help his scum play.

Post 25

FOS:BATTUOSAI

for applying "tactics" in the random voting stage

Post 28

And the thing wrong with that is?

Post 33

I've only known scum players to try and make a game serious A.S.A.P. So doing so was a scum tell.
Towny doesn't feel akward around the random stage

The first serious post belongs to Battousai, 2nd belongs to millar13 and the 3rd belongs to Strangercoug.
millar13 overlooks Battousai's original post as the first serious post of the game, but accuses SC of this exclaiming it was a scum-tell. This is the first falsity. Why was Battousai's post overlooked in favour of SC's? Distancing/bussing of either comes to mind.

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I clearly seen this falsity, and applied light pressure on millar13 with...

So, by your own admission, your scum... Thank you..

UNVOTE; VOTE: millar13

millar13 then says...

Strangecoug is probably a townie who believes he is a "scum-hunter" but is going in all gones blazing. You really don't need to put your vote down at the first possible chance. A town player doesn't need to rush into a vote, and FOS first normally work better in your favor.
As for Firestarter: I think that you are likely a scum partner who has seen this comment

Strangecoug:
"Hey, guys! I found a good wagon here!"

And used it to your advantage by doing just that. Forming a wagon so early in a game really is quite a scummy thing to do, for the simple fact that at Page 2 wagons shouldn't form.
What makes me think your even more scummy is this earlier post.

Firestarter:
"afatchick & Strangercoug are both obv-scum.

Time I got me a wagon together!!

UNVOTE; VOTE: afatchick"

Town players don't look to start or join wagon so early on in a game, unless they are genuinely sure. For this reason I think that Battousai in fact should not have been under my watch and that in fact you should be instead.

FOS: Firestarter

After initially stating that SC let slip a scum-tell, which was NOT. M13 then says SC looks townie trying to scumhunt?
With my post M13's reaction is interesting. He flips straight onto me saying Im a "scum partner" and goes on quoting one of my RVS posts and believes I jumped on what SC posted... "Hey, guys! I found a good wagon here!". M13 then says that players should not be looking to place a vote as early as they can.... Why the hell not? Just because you didn't in the RVS?
Votes are the best source of forcing info from a player, yet you didn't use yours. Thats not a scum-tell, but telling others they shouldn't place a vote/start a wagon is. This is another falsity.

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Your right don't feel awkward about the random stage....
So why would you not vote, like everyone else is doing?
And why would you FOS the 2 people who put a slight bit of pressure on you, millar13?

If you read Post 42 Sajin you would have noticed, that I no longer FOS Battousai and instead I am looking at Firestarter in stead
And three people have put pressure on me so far, not including you...so I think you need to check your facts first and then come back to me.
I won't confirm and actually place my vote, until I am sure I that the person I am voting for appears the most scum looking. At the moment, I have suspicions but not hard fact

Thanks for answering the questions millar13, looks townie.
You still don't want to vote in the random voting stage, looks neither alignment, in and of itself, but stops information, slightly scummy.
You still fear being suspected though, scummy.
I do agree that the wagon needs to back off more for post content though. Wagons are bad for us, especially this early. Town needs more posts with content.

I don't want to vote now...because the "random stage" has stopped, and we are now very much past morning tea and gone into the seriousness of Day 1. Votes should be value not thrown around with no real reason.
And yeah I do fear of being suspected being scummy, but then again must people do tend to feel that way now and again. I just want to help the town bring the scum down to its knees.

This brief exchange between sajin and M13 does not seem right, it almost looks staged. sajin asks some good questions in his 1st post imo, M13 does everything but answer the questions, instead re-stating his reluctance to place a vote in the RVS. M13 says he wont vote for anyone until he's sure they're scum. So far, he's named 2 players as having scum-tells from the RVS, and failed to address questions directly. This pattern of dodging questions develops as the game goes on.
sajin, for me, loses the credit I awarded him for his 1st and subsequent remarks about M13 still looking scummy when he says wagons are bad for town. Wagons are not bad for town! Neither is using your vote. 2 crap-logic statements made in this exchange. And sajin does not follow up on his suspicions later on.

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Scum on the retreat? Lurking back into the shadow at the first sign of attention.
Still very much 50/50 on you at the moment...as I'm not sure how that makes you look. But since we are still in the early stage of the day, and you are the only really the first person to stand up to the plate it could be a case that the real mafia are lurking in the wings.

The first statement is out and out scummy considering M13 later states that my Post 49 is the first real sign of townieness from me which happened to be my first serious post of the game. He states he's still 50/50 on me, wouldn't town be 50/50 on anyone in game, especially after just coming out of the random stage? He then looks at lurkers, saying that scum may be contained within them, why not place a vote on one them to get them to post?

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And I still think you should be bandwagoned. You're cracking under pressure. Town should not be doing that.

SC picks up on M13's earlier post, and claims M13 is feeling the prerssure. His early posts, especially after I changed my vote to him, back this statement up.

I clearly made an error...I meant to say that Firestarter was a scum member (not scum partner) I have no reason to beleive that yourself (Strangecoug) is actually aligned with that.
Am I cracking under pressure? Not that I noticed.
And believe it or not Firestarter comment in Post 49, actually indicate what i feel about wagon's in the early game...even if I am convinced he is the most likely scum member at the moment. Although, not enough active players have sprouted to give a fully loaded judgement.
Bandwagons are often used in early stages, by over-eager mafia members or town members looking to be part of an easy lynch so that they don't feel to guilty about it if they are in heavy unison. With that being said, I think Strangecoug your heart is in the right place just searching in the wrong direction.

M13 uses the word "clearly". If the error was clear, SC would not have pointed the error out. He states then that Im a scum member rather than a scum partner. This is how scum is caught, by errors made in posts, if no-one made errors, lynches would be based on guesses. After saying my Post 49 is what he's feeling about wagons, which is lies as he stated he was opposed to them earlier, he then says Im still likely to be scum... This is a huge OMGUS. Its also very arguable that SC was placing more pressure on M13 than I was at this stage, yet M13 then goes on to say that SC is still likely Townie and that his heart is in the right place? At this point, its 5 posts past where the RVS stage finished for me. He claims Im scum, at this point, because I applied pressure with my vote. Nonsense.

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Post 60

Bandwagons, as Ive already stated are good for town, and in the random stage, they hardly gather momentum, unless, again as Ive already stated, a scumbag makes a complete fuck-up on their part.
Your also more wrong than right stating a townie led bandwagon is merely used for town to easy-lynch someone, unless the whole cast of the game is made up of noobs.
I find it hilarious that you already are discounting SC as scum, and me as town.
With so little info available already from those contributing, your statements are pretty darn "certain" right now.

FOS: millar13

I FOS M13 for his crap-logic.

Firestater if you actually go through what I said, you will not notice I I actually said; that out of those players that have actually played this game so far you have come off looking like you the player with the possible characteristics of scum. In terms of Strangecoug he is coming off as a generic town player, I have played with a number of times.
"Certain" i don't think is a word I have really placed on anyway so far of being scum. And I don't feel that way at all. Although, I do feel you

FOS

is a predicatable defensive mechanism

He then states that Im likely scum of the players participating in the game, when a few short posts earlier he says Im 50/50.
I made only 1 other post since he claimed this...

May I ask you a question, I cant be bothered going to check...
How many games have you played here/completed?

How he could determine I was more scum-like after asking him 1 question about games he's played on MS, and placing a FOS on him for his crap-logic is baffling. This is another OMGUS post by M13.
He has also clearly refused to tarnish SC with his accusations thus far, and seems certain that SC is Town. Again, with so little info available, he's making too bold statements at this stage.

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Also in terms of bandwagons. I do agree that they can be good for the town.
However, not so in Day 1.
They can really be crucial, once a scum member is dead otherwise they are often scum controlled even though it seems as if the town is making the power play.

More crap-logic. How is a player to be lynched in D1 without a Bandwagon? They are more than crucial, they're essential!!
BW's on a lynched townie can also be led by townies. More crap-logic.

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Sajin in Post 63 and Pacman in 67 (FOS's M13) pick up on M13's crap-logic, contradictory posts and scuminess up to this point.
SC in 69 warns M13 that he needs to watch what he's doing in his posts, and M13 posts...

I am not perfect, and so I make mistakes. Doesn't help that two of my fingers are broken. If I make mistakes, I will continue you to correct them.
Mistakes aren't scummy, they are just a human quality

No-one is perfect. But what does having 2 broken fingers have anything to do with what you wrote? Im not buying this an excuse for you typing wrong words. This is mere filler.
I further question this, as I found it a strange post, and again, didn't directly answer the questions asked of him.

So, 2 of your fingers are broken, and you cannot help making mistakes???

WHAT?

M13...

Basically if I make typing errors or, use the wrong word don't take it too mean something that it doesn't. Half full rather than half empty.

So if you wrote, "Im scum", and you came back half an hour later and told us it was a mistake, it should have read "Im town".. that were to allow you this based on the fact you've 2 broken fingers??? More rubbish and more nonsense.
I then vote M13 for his persistant crap-logic, nonsensical posts, filler and general rubbish posts.

You dont mistakenly write the wrong word, wrong letter... yes, not the wrong word.
Upgrading to...

VOTE: millar13

Again, pacman picks up on this...

Basically if I make typing errors or, use the wrong word don't take it too mean something that it doesn't. Half full rather than half empty.

Mistakes aren't scummy, they are just a human quality

This contradicts the principal principle of scumhunting "watch for scum slips (*cough*MISTAKES*cough*)".
If we applied your phrase, there would be no reasonable way to catch a scumbag.

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At this point, I read back and seen that I had an agreement with sajin that I would not go further on M13...
So, I retracted my vote. If I left my vote there after making an agreement, it would have been inherently more scummy than removing it. M13 sees an opportunistic time to make this post...

Typing the wrong word is a scum-tell.
Well lah dee dah...I must be scum then.
Mhmmmm FireStarter you just more and more scummy, as you looking for the smallest of things to blow out of proportion, so you can "justify" your vote on me oncemore.
I'm not giving you the satifisfaction of voting for you yet though.

3 things here....
Great defense to previous accusations made...
He states I look more scummy now, when in fact all he's said throughout the game is that "I am likely scum", with no reasoning whatsoever, and trying to place pressure on me for retracting my vote. He then says he's not going to give me the satisfaction of voting for me?
Again, M13 does not want to be noticed by using his vote, he is still more worried about the way he'll look if he places his vote without actually having built a case, or indeed, pointing anything scummy out. He is clearly waiting for other to place a vote on me, in the hope they'll mistakenly see me scummy.
If M13 keeps screaming Im scum, he's hoping someone else will agree with him. We see later on that when someone else places a vote on me, he then places his.

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SC in 77 places a Fos on me for quickly retracting a vote. And M13 states...

Good point considering, it has just been my name vote unvote, vote unvote. Zzzz

More filler, really says alot of the way M13 has been posting so far... Words without any substance.
Ghostwriter weighs in finally, picking up on M13's 2 broken fingers malarkey...

I don't like what you're doing here. The fact that you're typing, not just wrong word, but a scummy way of thinking, is what's the problem. And you try to chalk that up to broken fingers? No. Your words are typed reasonably well, as in they don't have many errors. That could be explained. Typing wrong words cannot. The brain chooses the word, not the fingers. You know what you'll type before your fingers do. That's biology. And then, when this is stated, you try to pass it off as FireStarter attempting to justify a vote on you. What about SC and pacman, who also find your choice of words to be not too townie?

GW states that SC & pacman picked up on M13's broken fingers post, but again, since the RVS, he only picks up on my post about it. This is a quickly becoming a continuing trend throughout the thread, ignoring other players with similar points to mine, while zeroing in on me.
M13 keeps saying the same thing....

SC looks town to me.
Whilst Pac doesn't give off anything to me.
My reason for Fire have already been given, but as yet I still don't actually have a vote out.

What reason has M13 got for seeing me as scum?
So far, he only has the quick unvote I made, which has been explained on numerous occasions.... NOTHING ELSE.
Again, its a fallacy for him to suggest he has a case on me. He's ignoring players who are similarly, if not more, applying pressure to M13.

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At the moment I have only belive that these four players (including myself) have brought anything really solid to the game:
-Strangecoug
-Millar13
-Battousai
-FireStarter
the rest seem to be either Active Lurking, with the odd "I am still here post" or just off the radar completly. At the moment null tells is ultimatley all I have been given so far, and quite often in games it is only the null tells and little things that the mafia actually give away. Sometimes you have to be a little OTT and see the impossible as possible.

So, theres been 5 players considered active in the game, and he calls SC town, pacman as giving away nothing yet, and me as scum... YET, he clearly states he has only null tells to work with. He then says he has to be OTT sometimes to see the impossible. This is more rambling, and another contradiction of what he's been saying recently. Theres more flip-flopping with his thoughts than you'd find on a Brazilian beach!

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A vote is sacred.
People who vote, unvote, vote and unvote can actually be most unhelpful.
Imagine you survive to day 3 and you in total have gone through this unvote vote stage, and have either
a) Only voted for a small number of people, over and over again
or
b) Voted for every single player
How you play the game, effects how people read you. If I am more than 60% sure someone is scum, then that is when I will give my vote.

Again, M13 spurts out more crap-logic. he's trying to justify him not voting as being unhelpful. This is not true.
Votes in posts give info, and leave a trail for others to follow afterwards. He then goes on to justify why he will later vote for me by saying if he's 60% sure, he'll place a vote. This, imo, is another contradiction to something he posted previously.

I won't confirm and actually place my vote, until I am sure I that the person I am voting for appears the most scum looking.

Does 60% constitute enough "Surety", especially the way M13 has been so cautious NOT to place a vote? IMO, No. In the above quote, it seems that M13 needs to be alot more surer than just 60%. Not only that, but he still has not made a case, the reason being is that he doesn't have one. He is merely playing a waiting game, for others to vote first.

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I question M13 further about OTT & Null tells post.... He says...

In this game you have to be a little over the top...you need to blow the small clues out of proportion otherwise really you need to leave mafiascum and go back to playing cluedo with your kid sister.
If you notice I said the word "ULTIMATLEY all" which means the majority, but not every single one. Dont' try and twist my words against me, because it won't work.

Scum are the faction that need to blow the small details out of proprtion, not town. They are in the minority and need to blow the small details out of proportion. This is another factual error on M13's part. If town have a sound case, it will succeed, but they do not need to go OTT. And the words "Ultimately All" DOES mean all... END OF.

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At this point, M13 is still refusing to vote, regardless of the amount of times he's called me scummy...

The problem with you....is without being rude "you don't seem to have the guts" to vote for me yet, even though you have in as many words confirmed you will put your vote back on me anyway.
I however, believe you look the most scummy so far. Slight difference.

He also says I dont have the guts to vote for him... After one of his most vocal traits in the game was the fact I voted, uvoted him already. This is clearly incitement, and I eventually placed the vote back onto him.


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Post 96 sees me ask for a case from M13, one that I have not seen from him... He ignores this for the first time.

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In Post 104, after I eventually voted M13 again, he gets the chance to say what he's been gunning to say....

As for you FireStarter, I want to know how many more times you will vote and unvote for me on Day 1...because its is just refreshing.

I informed M13 that I had no reason to unvote him now in Post 105...

I knew your vote would stay on me, from the first time you un-voted me. The needless uvotes in-between just shows me that you may just be a townie who doesn't actually have full confidence in his scum-hunting abilities. In fact the more I think about it, it isn't that your coming off scummy but more that you just aren't a very good townie.

Sigh... Yet again he decides to change his mind on me. And tries a "get under the skin" tactic. He also says that the Vote/unvote period in my posting is an indication Im town???? More gobbledy-gook from M13.

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Isaac & Battousai, somehow find M13's case as the way to go.... But there actually wasn't a case provided.?
And in 114, M13 finally, after all his screaming about me being scum/town/scum, then town again....

Why haven't I voted yet...well I guess you can I was biding my time and now I think you certainly are scum. How you reacted to just myself pointing the finger was one thing, but now that two others are also pointing you have be cut right open.

Vote:Firestarter

This is another contradiction to a post M13 made shortly earlier when he said I was looking like a townie who coudn't scumhunt... We has seen 2 Votes placed on me, and low & behold, he goes and adds a 3rd. Again, Ill add that he made no case up to this point.

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In Post 116, I again state my desire to see a case from M13 regarding me.
In 117, he refuses to meet my request, and instead asks me to go read back... I already knew the content of the thread, there was no case. Just fallacies based in the RVS, and my quick unvote after an agreement NOT to vote.
In 118, I again request M13 to post a case, in 1 post, clear & concise.
In Post 120, he tells me to go looking for a case against his co-accusers of me. No mentione of requesting me a case however.
In Post 121, Im getting highly irritated with M13's continued refusal to post a case, and demand he post one so I could refute his claims.
Korlash, in 122, insists that a case should be posted.
In 123, I again demand M13 to post a case.
In 126, M13 finally posts a case. Lots af accusations without reasoning, and after I pursued him with questions from his post, he kept refusing to answer them... he made general statements in his subsequent posts, but did NOT answer the questions.

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M13, from his Post No. 5, had been calling me scum with no reasoning.
He posts are riddled with inconsistencies and contradictions, not to mention gibberish and nonsense at times.
He failed to use Towns most potent weapon during the day, His Vote, until he thought it safe to do so, after others voted before him.
When I retracted my vote, he seen an opportunity to attack, but even then before voting me, he called me town!
There are also interactions Im not happy with between M13 and Issac and SC.
These I will look at later with great detail if I have the chance to.
But right now Millar13 needs to be lynched.
Whether its before me or after me, he needs to go.



Apologies for the long post, I did not want to leave out any details.

[StrangerCoug]

There are also interactions Im not happy with between M13 and Issac and SC.

I do remember you accusing Isacc of being millar13's scumbuddy, and I've said several times that I'm not happy with some things I'm seeing out of the latter. What interactions between Isacc and me, however, are you referring to? I think this is the first time you've grouped the two of us together.

[millar13]

I don't know how to respond with out screaming, but this doesn't actually completely some up as an actual case. You have actually based a large amount of your anaysis on

your own opinion

and also what you seem to believe IS FACT. It is almost as if you believe you know what everyone is thinking and you know exactly what they are planning to do.

When you make a case, you actually have to have some sort of actual case with some hard case and evidents and not just PERSONAL OPINION.

Not only have you based a large majority of your case on opinion, but you have yet again taken a lot of what I have said out of context and given it your own personal spin. When I quote you, in the majority of cases I let people know all that you have said rather than just segmentation.

If you remove the un-needed personal opinion and bring in some hard facts it might actually be useful.

Also I implore you to stop saying things like this, all it makes you look like is someone desperately to give out any dirt possible in any shape or form. Your post, despite its lengths just appears desperate

[millar13]

There are also interactions Im not happy with between M13 and Issac and SC.

I do remember you accusing Isacc of being millar13's scumbuddy, and I've said several times that I'm not happy with some things I'm seeing out of the latter. What interactions between Isacc and me, however, are you referring to? I think this is the first time you've grouped the two of us together.

I think Firestarter is making the point that you are the third man in our scum team...with myself and Isacc included in the equation. If he had seven people calling him scum, he would likely still argue similar points. As much as I think he is scum, part of me is still wondering if he is just a retarded scummy looking towny. However, a towny that comes off look like that really isn't something that would be needed anyway.

I admit I have come to point, where I don't see how Firestarter can stay and the game can progress at the same time.

[Firestarter]

I do remember you accusing Isacc of being millar13's scumbuddy, and I've said several times that I'm not happy with some things I'm seeing out of the latter. What interactions between Isacc and me, however, are you referring to? I think this is the first time you've grouped the two of us together.

SC, do you have nothing to add from the case I just posted, other than worry about yourself?

There were some things I noticed, that I'd come back to later....
Right now, the case is on M13, he is top of the pile for me.

And @ M13...

Im not even going to write anything in response to your last post, its just ridiculous.
OF COURSE THE CASE IS BASED ON MY OPINION!!!!!
Did you have help for your case???