Mini 692: Boost Mafia (Game Over!)

[Raging Rabbit]

WHERE??


No more LA for me! Off to finally sleep now, decent post coming tomorrow.

[Raging Rabbit]

What negative implications would boosting a vanilla scum have had?

Could've easily helped the entire team. I assume the whole idea of the boost mechanic is that it mostly benefits the town but involves a risk factor of possibly boosting scum, and having a scum player gain no benefit from boosts goes against that concept. Despite electra's info, the players who gain no benfefit from boosts may very well be only vanilla town and not vanilla scum.

This the only question addressed to me I saw, if there's anything else I'm missing please point me to it.

I'm still barring judgement pending my full reread, which I should actually have the time to do in the next few days. For now I'd just like TDC to explain his reasons for "leaning RR" as thouroughly as possible.

[TDC]

"As thoroughly as possible" is not going to be that thorough.

Whoever of you is scum has played a very good game as I can't really mount a substantial case.

If eldarad is it, he's fooled me the whole game. Up until yesterday's GC-boost-plan he's not done anything I remember being worth mentioning as scummy. He's also been subject to several crap cases, though I realize these came from what we now know to have been townies, so they bear less weight than earlier on.
While I've never seen you as towny as him, you were still pretty high up in my list of likely townies. I've never wanted to lynch you.

That said, one of you has to be scum and not only would eld being scum be more outragious than you being scum, but yesterday's events also make this seem more likely.

With eld, I can at least see where he's coming from with his plan, though I disagree with his risk-analysis. In particular, the worst case scenario for his plan would've been you being scum (and hence him being town) - and while that's pretty bad and I maintain too risky, it's not as scummy as if the worst case was himself being scum.
How you came to the conclusion that GC is town, however, is beyond me. Considering that Incog was not going to vig you, preventing the GC lynch and convincing Incog of GC's "towniness" seems to be a good recipe for a RR-scum-win.

As for questions you've missed: If you can, elaborate on why you thought GC was town.

[eldarad]

Na na na na-na

SPACE PIRATES

na na na na na-na

SPACE PIRATES

na na na na-na

SPACE PIRATES

do do do-do-do do-do-do do

~~~

I assume the whole idea of the boost mechanic is that it mostly benefits the town but involves a risk factor of possibly boosting scum, and having a scum player gain no benefit from boosts goes against that concept.

Except that we know what GC's role was, and therefore we know that there was no benefit to the scum from boosting GC Yesterday. So given that we know - by looking at GC's role - that Yesterday there was no benefit to the scum from boosting GC, I would like you to express an opinion on its significance rather than repeating assumptions that are out of date because they are based on us

not

knowing GC's role.

For example, with hindsight, do you think it was significant that I was attempting to get GC boosted? Do you think it was significant that TDC was opposed to getting GC boosted?

Also, yeah - why did you think GC was town?
How come Xtoxm flipping town is such an earth-shattering event that you are now unable to express an opinion as to who is the last scum?
Do you have any thoughts as to why the scum kept you - or any of us - alive?

~~~

How so?
I mean other than that I made the right call on a plan that would've resulted in insta-loss if RR is scum.

Being right about who is scum and who is town doesn't clear you by any stretch of the imagination.
Being right with the benefit of hindsight isn't overly impressive either.

You are right that my plan was predicated on at least one of the town's kills hitting a scum. And I was willing to play for all the marbles and force the mafia's hand by making it essential for them to kill GC if GC was not mafia.
I'm cool with that.

[TDC]

Being right about who is scum and who is town doesn't clear you by any stretch of the imagination.

I didn't claim it would.

I was asking you whether it is the only thing you hold against me.

[Raging Rabbit]

How you came to the conclusion that GC is town, however, is beyond me. Considering that Incog was not going to vig you, preventing the GC lynch and convincing Incog of GC's "towniness" seems to be a good recipe for a RR-scum-win.

I think I've already pretty much explained this to the best of my ability - some of his posting yesterday felt like sincere town frustration and honest attempts at scumhunting. It's hard for me to point at exact words or phrases, since it's more of a general vibe thing, but I'll try to during my reread. Obviously he was just a good liar.
One substantial thing I could say is that I never really tried to flat out defend GC or make a case in his defense, I just mentioned my own gut feeling towards him, which was very unlikely to convince incog - therefore the benefit I as scum would gain from intentionally defending my buddy like that is pretty slim.

Except that we know what GC's role was, and therefore we know that there was no benefit to the scum from boosting GC Yesterday. So given that we know - by looking at GC's role - that Yesterday there was no benefit to the scum from boosting GC, I would like you to express an opinion on its significance rather than repeating assumptions that are out of date because they are based on us not knowing GC's role.

What happens when you boost an encryptor? Do we know for a fact it couldn't have been something substantial or even potenitally gamebreaking?

For example, with hindsight, do you think it was significant that I was attempting to get GC boosted? Do you think it was significant that TDC was opposed to getting GC boosted?

I'm not saying it's that signifiacant, it's entirely possible you were simply wrong and TDC is sneaky scum, but it's definitely a point against you.

How come Xtoxm flipping town is such an earth-shattering event that you are now unable to express an opinion as to who is the last scum?

Because my entire gameview turned out terribly wrong. Continuing my earlier mindset would definitely result in strongly leaning towards you being the scum, but I'm sorta afraid to do that since every premise I was coming from turned out false. (I still can't fucking believe both xtoxm and Iceman were town. Definitely the two scummiest townies I've ever played with.)
I therefore need to reread the game with the actual scumteam in mind in order to get a fresh prespective on things and be able to determine which one of you two's the scum.

Do you have any thoughts as to why the scum kept you - or any of us - alive?

Err, Incog was obvtown...

[Elmo]

Deadline

: Saturday, 25 April 2009, 22:00 UTC, which is 14 days and 22 minutes from this post. TDC and eldarad have been prodded.

[eldarad]

An encryptor gives the mafia a daytalking ability. Yesterday, the mafia knew that they were either going to go into lylo with one mafia left, or they were going to win. So securing daytalking for Today would not be a priority.

Err, Incog was obvtown...

Fair enough. I was just wondering whether you could see any potential scenario where the mafia would want Incog alive at endgame despite being confirmed?
I don't have an answer I prefer, I just want to see what you are thinking as you haven't said a lot Today.

At the end of Yesterday, TDC and I basically bypassed Incog by compromising on boosting & lynching Xtoxm. What are your thoughts on that?

[TDC]

eld:

I was asking you whether it is the only thing you hold against me.

One substantial thing I could say is that I never really tried to flat out defend GC or make a case in his defense, I just mentioned my own gut feeling towards him, which was very unlikely to convince incog - therefore the benefit I as scum would gain from intentionally defending my buddy like that is pretty slim.

Looking back, your stance was not as vehement as I remembered it. You made it abundantly clear that you'd prefer eld to be vigged over GC, though.

[Raging Rabbit]

An encryptor gives the mafia a daytalking ability. Yesterday, the mafia knew that they were either going to go into lylo with one mafia left, or they were going to win. So securing daytalking for Today would not be a priority.

Encryptor could give them daytalking all the time, and some other benfit when boosted.

Fair enough. I was just wondering whether you could see any potential scenario where the mafia would want Incog alive at endgame despite being confirmed?
I don't have an answer I prefer, I just want to see what you are thinking as you haven't said a lot Today.

IIRC, Incog would've probably preferred your lynch over either of us, so it's possibly a point in your favor. It's a huge risk to leave a confrimed alive in endgame when you totally don't have to, though.

At the end of Yesterday, TDC and I basically bypassed Incog by compromising on boosting & lynching Xtoxm. What are your thoughts on that?

I did that too, I led that lynch actually, and I don't think you can blame any of us. Xtoxm was scummy as hell, and whoever of you two's the scum did well to utilize that.

Looking back, your stance was not as vehement as I remembered it. You made it abundantly clear that you'd prefer eld to be vigged over GC, though.

Yes, but I believe Incog is independant minded enough to not care too much about my gut unless I explain it properly.

[eldarad]

I was asking you whether it is the only thing you hold against me.

At the moment the first thing weighing against you is your presence on the early Skillet wagon at a point where I believe at least one of the wagoners is scum.
The second thing weighing against you is how you've skated through the game without being either very active or inactive, or getting into a big argument with anyone at any point. This contrasts sharply with the sudden massive increase in activity Today relative to the other Days.
The third thing weighing against you is how you took a stand against a GC boost at a time when a hypothetical scum bussing GC would have been able to do so at no cost to the scumteam.

Something of a wildcard is how you have boosted me at the start of each Day in the game. I don't think for a second that you did that way back on Day 1 as a means to setup this play in lylo...but I do notice that you never followed up that boost or argued in favour of boosting me other than placing your boost-vote itself. Which makes we question your motives slightly.

Encryptor could give them daytalking all the time, and some other benfit when boosted.

And what use is daytalking "all the time" if there is only one scum left alive?!
The point I am making is that GC's scumbuddy would not lose anything by opposing a GC-boost. Either both scum would survive and therefore win the game, or one scum would die so there would only be one scum left.

IIRC, Incog would've probably preferred your lynch over either of us, so it's possibly a point in your favor. It's a huge risk to leave a confrimed alive in endgame when you totally don't have to, though.

Well yeah, but it's a fairly big point in your favour. Incog wouldn't have lynched you Today, but he probably would have lynched me. So it doesn't make a lot of sense for you to kill Incog, even though he would be a confirmed innocent.

At this point I'm almost ready to vote for TDC.

[TDC]

I was asking you whether it is the only thing you hold against me.

At the moment the first thing weighing against you is your presence on the early Skillet wagon at a point where I believe at least one of the wagoners is scum.

*shrug*

The second thing weighing against you is how you've skated through the game without being either very active or inactive, or getting into a big argument with anyone at any point.

I've had a longer argument with Guardian, but other than that, this about sums up how I always play.

This contrasts sharply with the sudden massive increase in activity Today relative to the other Days.

I wasn't active yesterday?
Besides, what do you expect. That I lurk through the final day like RR?

The third thing weighing against you is how you took a stand against a GC boost at a time when a hypothetical scum bussing GC would have been able to do so at no cost to the scumteam.

I think I've explained thoroughly enough how it was a reasonable stance.
That it might've been a reasonable stance for scum as well doesn't take away from that. (Besides, the only person arguing for it was you, it's not as if I was fighting against windmills to jump out with an "I told you so" on the next day..)

but I do notice that you never followed up that boost or argued in favour of boosting me other than placing your boost-vote itself. Which makes we question your motives slightly.

People often seemed rather suspicious of you, and I think I made clear often enough that I didn't see the point in those cases.

[TDC]

So it doesn't make a lot of sense for you to kill Incog, even though he would be a confirmed innocent.

Of course it does.
Of the three of us, anybody could be lynched.
Incognito was never ever going to be lynched.

[Raging Rabbit]

And what use is daytalking "all the time" if there is only one scum left alive?!
The point I am making is that GC's scumbuddy would not lose anything by opposing a GC-boost. Either both scum would survive and therefore win the game, or one scum would die so there would only be one scum left.

No use at all, but if the boost does something else it becomes substantial again that you tried to get GC boosted. Still, unless the benefit from a boost is either protection or an extra kill, you're right about your second point.

I wasn't active yesterday?
Besides, what do you expect. That I lurk through the final day like RR?

I resent that. Unless you I'm some sort of uber asshole and neglected the game I was modding in order to have a cover up here, you sorta have to believe I really was insanely busy.

I gotta say, TDC is looking much worse to me than he did yesterday. Still pending a reread which I hope to start in a few hours, though.

[TDC]

I didn't intend to imply you were doing it on purpose.
I was just asking whether eld would prefer if I did it, too.

[TDC]

For what it's worth:
My post counts, by game day:
Day 1: 29 Duration: ~two months PPD: ~0.5
Day 2: 24 Duration: ~one and a half month PPD: ~0.5
Day 3: 33 Duration: ~one month PPD: ~1.1
Day 4 so far: 22 Duration: ~one month PPD: ~0.7

So there is no "massive increase" today at all, actually.

[Raging Rabbit]

And your post count and general demeanor were about the same in Cop Central.

[eldarad]

For what it's worth:
My post counts, by game day:
Day 1: 29 Duration: ~two months PPD: ~0.5
Day 2: 24 Duration: ~one and a half month PPD: ~0.5
Day 3: 33 Duration: ~one month PPD: ~1.1
Day 4 so far: 22 Duration: ~one month PPD: ~0.7

So there is no "massive increase" today at all, actually.

The average for Today has probably dropped somewhat as there was a gap where we were waiting for RR.
Coming out of the gates Today you posted far more frequently than your previous level of activity. It just makes me think that it is because this is the first time that your life depended on it.

vote TDC

[Raging Rabbit]

I am town.

[TDC]

I am surprised.

vote: eldarad

I can't really bring a case on eldarad, so it's all up to you, RR.

If you have any questions, go ahead.

[TDC]

It just makes me think that it is because this is the first time that your life depended on it.

vote TDC

It is. I kind of like to win once in a while. (I think I'm on a 5 or 6 loss streak).

[TDC]

I mean really, that is what supposedly swung you around to voting me?

That I want to survive in endgame?

[Raging Rabbit]

Don't you now supposedly know eld is scum? Why even try to question him like this, then?

That last post is a huge point against TDC.

Finally starting my reread now, hope to make a decision withing 24 hours.

[TDC]

I'm pointing out that my will to survive is a rather crappy argument for me being scum.

What has that to do with me knowing he's scum?

[TDC]

I can see from a dictionary that supposedly can have two meanings.
I obviously meant the "alledgedly" meaning and not the "supposed" meaning.