MKM II GAME OVER

[zwetschenwasser]

But we already have people that claimed item knowledge. Might as well confirm them now as the damage has already been done.

Mod edit
Visible Votecount

-zwetschenwasser (3): pacman281292, AceMarksman, Shinnen_no_Me
-Shinnen_no_Me (2): Riceballtail, Surye
-Empking (1): zwetschenwasser
-AceMarksman (1): Shadow Knight
-Gorrad (2): Empking, ortolan
-killa seven (1): qwints
-ortolan (1): populartajo

Not voting (6): killa seven, Moratorium, Dubya, Cream147, Gorrad, caf19

With 17 alive it takes 9 real votes to lynch.

[ortolan]

Well, I can't really argue with that beyond the obvious point that scum may know how the items work.

[ortolan]

And while I've declined to participate, I've already demonstrated my knowledge in-thread.

[populartajo]

For the lazy people here are ortolan attempts to plot against the healthy town attempts to break the game:

I highly doubt it. No practical way of doing it, game-breaking so presumably the mod has measures against it etc.

And what if the mod doesnt have measures against it?

True. By paraphrasing the effects. Technically we would do something really lame like "what is the seventh letter in the description for this item" but I don't think that will be treated kindly by the mod,

amirite, mod?

Agree that kind of strategy (confirming by the 7th letter is lame) but nobody has proposed that. We are proposing asking questions about what the items do. But thx for calling the mod again for at least trying to break the game.

So is the assumption here that basically Law didn't put anything in the scum role pm's that says "Hey, by the way, in case town tries this tactic, here's the list of items that town can buy and their powers"?

Very good point which I thought of as well. The interesting thing about this, though, is that (possibly ) at least one of the items seems to be rendered useless or at least much less useful if one's enemy knows what it does (which may suggest

they can't know

what our items do).

Make a stance, do you think scum have items description in their PMs or nor?

Nah I'm actually getting increasingly against this idea.

If scum do know

what the items do already then we're heavily shooting ourselves in the foot. I'm convinced Lawrencealot wouldn't allow us to catch scum in this manner.

And what if he can?

This is the second time tajo has role/itemfished, and in a different manner to the first time. Strongly considering moving my vote back onto him.

Am I really doing that, ortolan? Tell me how I am rolefishing and itemfishing. Does it mean that all people that are agreeing with my plan are also rolefishing and itemfishing?
..........
Yeah, PRETTY happy with my vote.

[populartajo]

I don't see anything particularly scummy in the pacman post.

ç
Do you think Shinnen post was scummy?

[Lawrencelot]

Technically we would do something really lame like "what is the seventh letter in the description for this item" but I don't think that will be treated kindly by the mod, amirite, mod?

I would consider that quoting a part of your role pm, which is not allowed. Use paraphrasing only if you want to say anything about your role (except for your rolename).

[Surye]

When worded properly, we can confirm the questioner and answer-er, given the descriptions. I have no issue with that, however there's one item I think will be renderer less useful. Ultimately though, given the nature of power-roles in MKMI and items, the general town abilities are not hard to guess.

I think it's clear that I have the item descriptions. And at the time I would have assumed everyone did.

[populartajo]

First, I want everyone that doesnt have the description of their items in their PMs to step forward, plz.

Ill make a list, feel free to add you to the list.

People with items description

Tajo
Zwet
Qwints
caf19
pacman
Surye

People with no items description

Gorrad
Ace
Shadow Knight

Refusing to

Empking
Ortolan
Shinnen

Still no claim

k7
Cream
Rice
Mora
Dubya

[AceMarksman]

tajo, I'm not really feeling your case on ort, it doesn't feel all that strong. Maybe it's just that I have a hard time reading him?

Also, happy birthday Surye

[AceMarksman]

Hm, I just forgot something, what do you think the effect of the "ready to jump in" players will be? What can we assume about them? Has anyone played with a mechanic such as this before?

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Now that I think about this, I find it to be a not so good idea. If we assume as true that some roles can't buy items, we will assume that the ones that can are more powerful.

Actually Im not a powerful role but I still can buy items.

FoS : Shinnen

for making weak assumptions and comploting against a very good plan.

First, I want everyone that doesnt have the description of their items in their PMs to step forward, plz.

Ok, you might be right that the items are not only for the powerful roles. But, you're missing something: wanting to people to say if they can't buy items is wanting to give the mafia a list of less power and hence less of a threat players?

[Moratorium]

Please put me in the "has item descriptions" column.

[Gorrad]

I'm very much in line with Tajo against Orlotan's post right now. Frankly, I have no idea whether or not the scum would know if the town knew that they were town. I'm assuming that they didn't know that the town didn't know that they were town.

I didn't get anything in my PM that said I was town. Just that I was sided with Bowser's Castle. The town PM is also not on the first page. So I didn't think to ask if I was town, because I was pretty sure I wasn't. The only PM I sent to the mod was to ask if I had a fakeclaim. Which, by the way, I didn't. His response to me there also said nothing of my allignment, and the phrasing actually served to reinforce my believe that I was scum. If THEY had asked if they were town, they would have said so following my post. They did not.

[populartajo]

Now that I think about this, I find it to be a not so good idea. If we assume as true that some roles can't buy items, we will assume that the ones that can are more powerful.

Actually Im not a powerful role but I still can buy items.

FoS : Shinnen

for making weak assumptions and comploting against a very good plan.

First, I want everyone that doesnt have the description of their items in their PMs to step forward, plz.

Ok, you might be right that the items are not only for the powerful roles. But, you're missing something: wanting to people to say if they can't buy items is wanting to give the mafia a list of less power and hence less of a threat players?

What are you talking about?

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Saying who can use and who can't use items just creates a list to the scum of who NOT to kill during nights, as they, likely, represent less of a threat than those players that can actually use items.

[populartajo]

Saying who can use and who can't use items just creates a list to the scum of who NOT to kill during nights, as they, likely, represent less of a threat than those players that can actually use items.

And why do you think that all the scum are able to use items?

[zwetschenwasser]

Honestly, I'm not buying these claims that powerroles might not be able to buy items. Sounds like a nervous attempt to cover up their ignorance of the descriptions.

[AceMarksman]

Where in the world did that come from, zwet?

[Gorrad]

Who said anything about powerroles not being able to buy items? I was under the impression that we were saying there were roles that, as they could not buy items, were weaker than the average townie.

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Saying who can use and who can't use items just creates a list to the scum of who NOT to kill during nights, as they, likely, represent less of a threat than those players that can actually use items.

And why do you think that all the scum are able to use items?

Excuse, where did I say this?

[populartajo]

Saying who can use and who can't use items just creates a list to the scum of who NOT to kill during nights, as they, likely, represent less of a threat than those players that can actually use items.

And why do you think that all the scum are able to use items?

Excuse, where did I say this?

You think that people that cant use items are town or scum?

[zwetschenwasser]

scum.

[ortolan]

Make a stance, do you think scum have items description in their PMs or nor?

I do not know, as I am not scum.

Saying who can use and who can't use items just creates a list to the scum of who NOT to kill during nights, as they, likely, represent less of a threat than those players that can actually use items.

Actually, it goes both ways. For all we know the most powerful town roles may be among those who can't buy items.

I am reconsidering item-claiming. Either scum already know what our items do (in which case this will be useless, but therefore we're not actually revealing anything to them), or they don't know what they do and thus may get caught out. The other problem is that either way, we won't know whether the people who claimed no items are scum or town anyway.

I would ask if you go ahead that you don't ask questions about the most expensive because that could seriously diminish its effectiveness.

[zwetschenwasser]

ort, just give your opinion. Your response of "I don't know" seems defensive and nervous.

[ortolan]

"You are scum because you refuse to know the content of scum role pms"

I have no way of determining what's in their pms and cannot look to the first game for help, where the abilities were shared. I have however told you what the claim is likely to bring in both eventualities, and implicitly participated in it also.