Open 135 - Polygamist Mafia, Incomplete/Mod Error before 775

[Archon]

ATTN all, I am a secret role that is not listed in the opening post. My true role name is Hitler Motivator. One of you is (unbeknownst to you) Adolf Hitler, chosen randomly by the mod, and every night I must choose one of you to see if you are hitler or not. I am not interested in your petty squabbles, since I am in fact a time traveller from the distant future. If you are hitler I immediately turn you into a suicide cult recruiter, satisfy my win condition, and win the game.

...

[zwetschenwasser]

I'm still confused as to why Archon should be scared of little ol me.

[Wall-E]

Appeal to emotion (pity).

[zwetschenwasser]

By who? Archon,

[AceMarksman]

No, you. *sigh* I hate your meta that states that you always come up with some horrid claim that you pull out of your posterior, because I can never tell if you're lying or not.

[Wall-E]

He's clearly lying or joking. Notice the nazi comment right before it. The coincidence would be too great for someone to say Nazi and then zwets to pop up with Hitler Sympathizer or whatever he said.

[Archon]

Zwet is an idiot. Besides. this is an Open, and everyone would know that there is a Hitler should there be one.

[Tenchi]

Current feelings:
Wall-e: I need a scumgame from him, but on this moment, his free playstyle suggests town.
Tenchi: Scum. Reacts the way I would expect on votes, brings more and more pressure on zwet.
Zwet: at least has sometimes a sentence that makes sense, I don't think we will get a lot from him though. Maybe it would even be better if he just lurked. Same effect, less noise.
Archon: not too experienced scum. Is a bit shaky, and defends aggressively sometimes.

Some questions on this:

1. Do you think I should lay off Zwet?
2. Do you think Zwet's town/scum/neutral? I noticed you didn't give a note on him and even encouraged lurking.
3. Can you elaborate how I "reacted the way you would expect on votes"? Can you site an example?
4. What do you mean that Archon is "shaky"?
5. Why do you think Wall-E's town despite you saying "The way people hop onto Zwet is doubtful. Some have valid reasons, some (Wall-e!!!) even get on it with a weakened unsure statement... "

[Tenchi]

Yep, a whole bunch of people are trolling for information.

Tell you what. Everyone post a link to one game in which you were scum.

http://sharkey.gamespite.net/forum/inde ... pic=2546.0

Honestly, nobody has ever been able to get an accurate meta-read off me. But there you go.

Question for Wall-E

You can check my Wiki page for some meta but I think I have played quite differently in each.

Which is the same reason why I won't even bother taking the same approach in figuring this out.

[Tenchi]

EBWOP: Ignore the question for Wall-E part.

[Tenchi]

*you and Archon and Wall-E

I still think Archon is actively lurking though. Notice that instead of commenting on other players, he is commenting on his activity.

Archon: Answering my questions on 214 may change my mind.

Bargaining with your vote?

It was more like trying to calm down.

Regardless, the answer my request/questions could lead us to more information.

[Tenchi]

I was a little surprised to see you claim archon. You've only got 3 votes behind your name, scared allready?

when most of us agread to NOT-claim, you felt the urge to do it, even in a not so dangerous situation.

please explain

I wanted everyone to know, and yes, I'm scared. I've been pared with a damned troll, for christ's sake. And, he dosen't seem to be helping by getting his name clear.

If you're town, you should use that additional "knowledge" that Zwet is innocent to help us solve this puzzle, instead of outright claiming.

Mod: Prod: Ortolan, MikeK

[Wall-E]

If I had my druthers we'd kill Archon/zwets today.

[mykonian]

Current feelings:
Wall-e: I need a scumgame from him, but on this moment, his free playstyle suggests town.
Tenchi: Scum. Reacts the way I would expect on votes, brings more and more pressure on zwet.
Zwet: at least has sometimes a sentence that makes sense, I don't think we will get a lot from him though. Maybe it would even be better if he just lurked. Same effect, less noise.
Archon: not too experienced scum. Is a bit shaky, and defends aggressively sometimes.

Some questions on this:

1. Do you think I should lay off Zwet?

you should never, keep your eyes open

2. Do you think Zwet's town/scum/neutral? I noticed you didn't give a note on him and even encouraged lurking.

I have seen zwet playing worse. I think he is town now. But still, most of his posts don't add anything to the game, and the few that do could also be made without all the other annoying posts. That's why I said that he should lurk. Less annoying posts, just as much good posts.

3. Can you elaborate how I "reacted the way you would expect on votes"? Can you site an example?

Mainly the asking for reasons, and going far in that. It is mainly gut, but I think that pointed me to it

4. What do you mean that Archon is "shaky"?

Not perfect town play, could still be scum

5. Why do you think Wall-E's town despite you saying "The way people hop onto Zwet is doubtful. Some have valid reasons, some (Wall-e!!!) even get on it with a weakened unsure statement... "

same as with Zwet, I have seen Wall-e much less protown. He is less chaotic, and more protown then the last time I saw him

[mikek]

OK, Easter weekend was a busy time for me and other people too, by the looks of things. Let's get cracking.

Firstly, welcome to our new players, Jazzmyn and Looker!

Secondly, wow, y'all post a lot. Got 100+ some posts to catch up on here. I won't comment on every little thing that catches my eye, although I'll be taking some extra notes for cross-referencing later. One thing I think will be useful is noting down who seems like they could or couldn't be partners and why. This might catch scum forced to claim.

Page 6: Tenchi prodding zwet further. Apparently zwet doesn't think Wall-E, Archon, or Ace have valid reasons for voting for him, but doesn't give any justification.

Page 7: Tenchi says Archon's last few posts have been content-light. I think that's fair. ortolan makes a long post, most of which I agree with. What I find odd about it is how much he defends zwet (subtly, but he does). He also questions AceMarksman vis-a-vis the massclaim discussion. Ace responded:

My argument was "your cons in your previous post outweigh the pros IMHO." And this standpoint was for today, and I never supported not claiming at all, just massclaiming. We've got to see our position tomorrow to determine if a massclaim is needed.

His reasons are pretty vague but I think I've come to generally agree. My position: massclaim day one only if we can determine it will really help in some tangible way (probably don't). Massclaim day two when it's useful. This may be towards the end to allow us all the logic available to make the right choice, or it may be early on on Day 2 to direct our thoughts and scumhunting. What we should definitely not do is claim Day 1 unless it's obviously beneficial.

Archon gets very defensive about Tenchi's accusation and then has an argument with zwet about whether he was appealing to emotion. sekinj replaces out :\

Page 8: Wall-E and Tenchi have an interesting exchange where Wall-E says he can't get proper reads with zwet around, and also implies he thinks he's scum; whereas Tenchi makes the argument that zwet and Archon cannot be scum together.

Jazzmyn makes a decently sized post. I don't understand this paragraph:

To me, those favouring early massclaim are suspicious; those who think it is suspicious to favour a massclaim later, e.g. Day 2 are suspicious; those who are defending those who appear to favour an early massclaim are suspicious. This means Archon, Zwet, Ortolan, and Mikek.

I don't think I fit into any of those categories, so I'm not sure what you mean by this.

Jazzmyn makes the case that in this game zwet is not town with a scummy playstyle, but scum with a scummy playstyle! She also notes that Ortolan has been defending zwet, and that Archon's claim to be removing a random vote wasn't quite kosher. Possible linkage?

Tenchi again asserts/asks that Zwet and Archon cannot be buddies. Zwet claims that bussing is not a viable tactic here. He's right scum cannot afford any of their own to be lynched, but he's not right that this means they can't argue/distance. Ace and Jazz question zwet's interpretation, and Wall-E is moved enough to actually place a vote.

Page 9: Archon OMGUSs Tenchi and asks for people not to vote zwet. Wall-E immediately unvotes and follows the vote onto Tenchi. WTF is that about? Tenchi and Ace call him out on this. Zwet says Wall-E is obviously town because he's acting crazy and... unvotes tenchi.

Archon gets worked up...

Tell you what. Everyone post a link to one game in which you were scum.

Sorry, I've never been scum.

Page 10: Looker replaces sekinj.

Ace calls out Archon on his OMGUS vote and votes for him. I think his logic is good.

Archon claims his lover is zwet. Um. This is a big thing, more on this below. Zwet confirms. Wall-E votes Archon (reasonable..).

Zwets makes a stupid joke claim. Wall-E votes him for it (?).

OK, that's basically up to where we are now.

So the biggest issue at this point I think is Archon's claim and whether we believe it. Frankly I find it kind of frustrating reading back over Archon and zwet's posts. They both seem to be very erratic players, however this could easily just be the way they play rather than an alignment-tell. Honestly, they've both been very anti-town. Archon with his claim (after consensus that early claim is bad!) and zwet with his... well... shall I say zwettishness?

What I find hardest to understand is the exchange between zwet and Archon on page 7. It doesn't make sense to me with them as town, and it doesn't make sense to me with them as scum, either. If they're town, why is zwet casting suspicion on Archon? Why call him a liar? If they're scum trying to distance, why on Earth did Archon claim zwet as partner? Are they just scum acting totally irrationally so we can't read them?

I also notice that Archon cast his first vote for Zwet, for asking why Pie is alive. Distancing? When he removed this later he claimed it had been a random vote, which does not ring true (as Jazzmyn said). Did he realize his error and try to correct it?

Archon's response to Tenchi accusing him of lurking was off kilter. Ever since then he's appeared very angry.

What we have to decide is what is Archon's motivation here. Is he a townie who's genuinely pissed off and claiming his partner because he's fed up? Is he scum who has melted down and claimed a lover in the belief this will remove suspicion? Is he scum who's feigning being a pissed off townie to clear himself and one of his scum partners? I know which way I'm leaning on this question, but I'd like to see everyone active and commenting on this situation.

Mod: Can you prod PieIsPopcorn please.
Mod: Votecount, please.

@Archon: Why did you claim, what is your reasoning here? Why did you vote for your claimed partner in the first post?

@zwet: Why were you arguing with your claimed partner on page seven? What's up with the stupid falseclaim?

@ortolan: Why were you so defensive of zwet in your big post?

@Tenchi: Why didn't you ask the mod to prod PieIsPopcorn? What do you think about your earlier claim Archon + zwet cannot be buddies together, now?

[zwetschenwasser]

Archon made a lousy case on me. I deemed his reasons worthless precisely because he's my lover pair. When Wall-e and Tenchi used his logic against me it was natural to assume that all of them were voting me for flawed reasons. Sekinj made a scummy move by replacing out AND calling for a massclaim in her last post. I honestly don't understand why Archon and I have behaved so erratically towards each other, but it probably involves more annoyance than anything else. The fakeclaim was a mockery of Archon's "Nazi" post.

[AceMarksman]

Replace "lover pair" with "polygamist mate" in Zwet's post 265 and it works just as well. I'm just saying...

[zwetschenwasser]

What's your point?

[mykonian]

Yes ace, what is the point. That is just subjectively pushing a case. I want clear points, not this feelings stuff.

[zwetschenwasser]

Also, myk, could you link to a game where Wall-e is more chaotic and still town?

[mykonian]

This is the game I know from Wall-e. Sometimes he seemed to have some concentration problem.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... c&&start=0

You only need to read day 1

[zwetschenwasser]

Um... never mind that...

[Wall-E]

Is... is that my very first game on mafiascum? How cute!

[mykonian]

ok. That is basically my meta on you

lucky we don't have doctors here!

[zwetschenwasser]

What's that supposed to mean?