Open 135 - Polygamist Mafia, Incomplete/Mod Error before 775

[mykonian]

unvote

Wwwwwaaaaaaa-llleeeee!

DON'T DO THAT.

I hate scumclaims. There is no use for town to do it. And scum thinks it can hide behind WIFOM, but that doesn't work here.

If you are town: you don't claim scum. It is useless, it never gets you closer to your goal. You don't do it.
If you are scum: You claim because you think it is only extra WIFOM. But like it is just explained, this is not a WIFOM situation, as the other chance (claiming scum as town) doesn't exist.

I can't believe my gut is wrong again, but that was as horrible as a post can get.

Vote Wall-E

[Looker]

And why would you put me in it?

[Wall-E]

Woman: You're joking, right?

Kay: No ma'am, we at the CIA have no sense of humor that we are aware of.

Sigh. Well if I've screwed the pooch, sorry. I've been yelling at people all day not to joke around me because I don't get jokes (hence I suck at making them). Sorry myco, I certainly won't begrudge the vote.

[Wall-E]

Hrm. I can't believe myconian would policy vote me like that. I actually expect better from him than that.

[mykonian]

Hrm. I can't believe myconian would policy vote me like that. I actually expect better from him than that.

WHY? Wall-e, after the start of the game, I never suspected that you would claim scum. It is so obviously a bad move, that pretty much everyone understands you shouldn't do it. Plus that you should never lie as town, something you know. This simply doesn't fit in anyones town play.

But you make me cry inside, because that sentence really hurts. Sure, it is close to a policy-vote (and because it is 1 AM, I can't do much better) but I really believe in this policy, for given reasons. It is so obviously scummy, that you deserve the vote(s).

[Looker]

it's okay, just ignore my questions, i don't mind...

see now THAT is real sarcasm, REAL jokes, HaHaHa! Funny, no?

[mykonian]

I didn't miss one, did I?

[Looker]

naaaah, dat would be waaaaaaaaaaaallllleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

[mykonian]

and BTW, now we still have no answer from Archon/zwet about the case on them. Wall-e, if you are not scum, you should really do something about your timing...

and I hoped you wouldn't do too crazy things...

[Seraphim]

Vote Count:

Tenchi(1)

- Archon

zwetschenwasser(1)

- Jazzmyn

mikek(1)

- PieIsPopcorn

Archon(4)

- AceMarksman, Tenchi, Looker, Wall-E

Wall-E(1)

- mykonian

Not Voting(4)

- Gregory, mikek, ortolan, zwetschenwasser

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

Prodding Jazzmyn. Ortolan and PieIsPopcorn have not replied to their prods.

Current Deadline:

April 29th, 20:00 Central Time

[Tenchi]

and BTW, now we still have no answer from Archon/zwet about the case on them. Wall-e, if you are not scum, you should really do something about your timing...

and I hoped you wouldn't do too crazy things...

Archon has addressed the case on him already.

And Zwet called it a "big misrep" on 299.

I don't know what Wall-E is up to. :\

[Jazzmyn]

All caught up on reading, and I do apologize for my limited ability to post this week. It's been insanely busy in real life.

I will address specific posts over the weekend, but since I am currently voting for zwet and he and Archon are now claiming to be partners (and since I believe it more likely that they are 2 of the scum team than 2 lovers), it makes perfect sense to:

Unvote: zwet
Vote: Archon

Regards,
Jazz

[mykonian]

great. Are you lovers with looker and Wall-e too? That is as clear as a bandwagon vote gets. I want reasons! More of them. and on this moment, I want to know why you think it is ok to vote without giving those reasons!

[ortolan]

I'm writing a post now Seraphim

[ortolan]

sorry Seraphim + other players I promise to stop neglecting this game as of now.

Here's the thing: I can't distinguish between zwets as a troll and zwets as scum. He's ruining my reads of EVERYONE ELSE in this game, and so I want him (and his three scumbuds) to die.

I really don't like this attitude when we only have two mislynches.

To me, those favouring early massclaim are suspicious; those who think it is suspicious to favour a massclaim later, e.g. Day 2 are suspicious; those who are defending those who appear to favour an early massclaim are suspicious. This means Archon, Zwet, Ortolan, and Mikek.

You are incorrect. My opinion is that the mass-claim should happen late day one or at some point on day 2, as I recall Adel posting in either an actual previous game or in a discussion relating to this setup. The fact you use the term "those who appear to favour an early massclaim" is just an excuse to lump all these players together, which is scummy.

Add to that the fact that ortolan seems to be defending/protecting Zwet when he isn’t actively ignoring the elephant in the room that is Zwet. Eg., in Ortolan’s long post

This means "ortolan is either defending zwet or not talking about him". What's wrong with that? I think he is town, I do consider I have strong experience with his meta also.

I suggest that this is another example of Zwet using his meta as a shield for when he is really scum, and Ortolan trying to capitalize on that with his scumbuddy, Zwet.

I noticed you referenced this earlier in your post also. Just because zwet may use his meta as a shield for when he is scum, doesn't mean he is doing so this game. The onus is on you, the accuser, to say why.

I think that zwet's crazy enough to bus his partner, and I'm even more convinced of this given how he's denying the viability of the tactic.

Unvote: Vote: zwetschenwasser

just in case.

This presupposes Archon is scum (in that case why aren't you voting him?) It also makes no sense that you simply reinstate your vote on zwet which was already there, in response to Tenchi's prod in 192.

202 by Archon (voting Tenchi) makes no sense. 204 by Wall-E throws me off a bit- unexplained vote on Archon. I would have thought this would lessen the probability of them being scumbuddies but it still could serve as simple distancing.

Archon: What do you think of the dynamics between:

1. Me and Zwet
2. Wall-E and Zwet

I don't like this. The only reason people have to test what other people think of them specifically in relation to another player is when they are scum, to see how they should treat that player to best appear town.

I still hope I can distinguish, and I'm going to assume I can. Then this time it would mean Zwet is town. For this to work, I need some games to end, where I am in with him, but I have the feeling I see a different playstyle when he is scum.

I agree, I think zwet is easier to pick than people think when he is scum.

*you and Archon and Wall-E

I still think Archon is actively lurking though. Notice that instead of commenting on other players, he is commenting on his activity.

Archon: Answering my questions on 214 may change my mind.

Bargaining with your vote?

Agreed this is odd and may be a possible cue to scumbuddy. Wall-E gains a townpoint for the observation.

I was waiting to see if I could quote my PM, but Ser did not aswer, and instead told me to just reveal who my lover is.

I'll give you a hint. I'm in love with a gay troll, who likes to post random things such as "WAKACHAKAI! ALOHA MUUMUU" and "COMMUNIST REVOLUTION! DUCK AND COVER!!!"

Oh, and my lovely gay troll, I don't give a shit weather or not you like it that I released the info that you are my partner.

This is anti-town. Ironically though, it strongly decreases for me the likelihood that they are scum. It's hard to see either of these players being coordinated enough to pull a gambit like this off as scum, especially including the implied resentment between them.

Unvote: Vote: Archon

for being super-nervous about losing for the scumteam.

I'm having a hard time judging here if Wall-E is just coming at this from a different perspective to me or if this is actively scummy. Have you played with zwet before Wall-E?

ATTN all, I am a secret role that is not listed in the opening post. My true role name is Hitler Motivator. One of you is (unbeknownst to you) Adolf Hitler, chosen randomly by the mod, and every night I must choose one of you to see if you are hitler or not. I am not interested in your petty squabbles, since I am in fact a time traveller from the distant future. If you are hitler I immediately turn you into a suicide cult recruiter, satisfy my win condition, and win the game.

I agree with Wall-E- this may simply be zwet trying to deliberately act like his usual eccentric self, in order to give the impression of not being scum.

@ 254-255, as Archon said, this is clearly an open setup.

Some questions on this:

1. Do you think I should lay off Zwet?
2. Do you think Zwet's town/scum/neutral? I noticed you didn't give a note on him and even encouraged lurking.
3. Can you elaborate how I "reacted the way you would expect on votes"? Can you site an example?
4. What do you mean that Archon is "shaky"?
5. Why do you think Wall-E's town despite you saying "The way people hop onto Zwet is doubtful. Some have valid reasons, some (Wall-e!!!) even get on it with a weakened unsure statement... "

Again I hate Tenchi asking for other people's attitudes towards him and zwet. It is still viable he's lovers with zwet (and therefore Archon also) and is particularly concerned about whether or not he appears to be linked to his scumbuddy.

@ortolan: Why were you so defensive of zwet in your big post?

I get town reads from him individually. I see a viable scumpairing including him in it though (see above).

I voted for zwet because everyone else was random voting people too. I wanted to separate myself from zwet for some reason. He's a troll, of course, and I didn't... I don;t know. I just voted for him because I wanted to. Not quite sure actually...

I would like to take this opportunity to point out that there can be no busing, and that separating ones-self from another would not be a good tactic for mafia in this setup.

Um yes but it also makes no sense as town- if you are town then you

know

one hundred percent that zwet is town. Why would you have distanced?

284-285 substantially decreases likelihood of Tenchi-zwet-Archon polygamist group. Unfortunately this doesn't help Tenchi, because one of the main points against this was the townie bias I have towards zwet-Archon, all things considered- I still don't think they'd be able to pull off that fakeclaim that Archon made.

Agreed with Wall-E's 291. He is unlikely to be a polygamist with Tenchi.

Read my posts, and you will se that I never, ever scum hunt.

Not something to be proud of, but I agree with your sentiments on Tenchi

What I don't understand is, if you are a lover pair, why you would want to distance or make cases on one another at all? You have both claimed that bussing and distancing are not good mafia tactics in this set-up. However it seems to me that scum would want to be distanced from (two of) their scum partners. Isn't that so?

Can you explain why a lover pair would want to distance from one another? Who is more likely to distance: a lover pair, or two of the scum?

My opinions precisely. Townpoints.

Archon is town:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... highlight=

Modkilled in this game for claiming that the mod gave him permission to quote a PM the mod accidentally sent him describing the scum setup. Died town and lived a spazzy, non-contributing life while alive. He was aware of the discrepancy which was probably his major motivation for posting the PM in the first place. (off the record, KoC's call to modkill you was unfortunately necessary, but his own fault ultimately for tempting you with that and not qualifying that you aught not post it)

This is the only game he's completed. He acted the fool and learned some lessons about how to play here and he's about as good as I was when I first joined last year. Most every post I've seen from him when looking through his "View all posts by this user" list contains a scumtell, an appeal to emotion, fluff or something similar. It's his meta, and I won't lynch him for it. Neither should Tenchi.

I'm not saying he's guaranteed town by any stretch, but his meta would suggest that this game is just business as usual for him, and further evidence would be requred to convince me.

This agrees with my perceptions of Archon. Wall-E gets townpoints.

1. Not 100%. I can never be. But I am pretty certain. Of course, I need the help of six other players to review my case before a lynch actually passes. If six people are strongly hesitant on my case, a lynch would never pass and of course I would rethink my case. For now, I think he is still scum, despite his attempts to attack me with a misguided PBPA (will elaborate on this later) and his explanations hasn't been adequate (or you could judge his explanations yourself).

"If I push scummy cases it's ok because they'll never get through because townies will stop me!"

Unvote: Vote: Archon

because Looker and I are polygamists pushing a mislynch.

I don't get it.

great. Are you lovers with looker and Wall-e too? That is as clear as a bandwagon vote gets. I want reasons! More of them. and on this moment, I want to know why you think it is ok to vote without giving those reasons!

Townpoints for this.

Vote: Tenchi

Wall-E needs to explain the rationale/reasoning behind his scum-claim though. Archon is town.

[Gregory]

Modkilled in this game for claiming that the mod gave him permission to quote a PM the mod accidentally sent him describing the scum setup. Died town and lived a spazzy, non-contributing life while alive. He was aware of the discrepancy which was probably his major motivation for posting the PM in the first place. (off the record, KoC's call to modkill you was unfortunately necessary, but his own fault ultimately for tempting you with that and not qualifying that you aught not post it)

This is the only game he's completed. He acted the fool and learned some lessons about how to play here and he's about as good as I was when I first joined last year. Most every post I've seen from him when looking through his "View all posts by this user" list contains a scumtell, an appeal to emotion, fluff or something similar. . Neither should Tenchi.

I'm not saying he's guaranteed town by any stretch, but his meta would suggest that this game is just business as usual for him, and further evidence would be requred to convince me.

Unvote: Vote: Archon

because Looker and I are polygamists pushing a mislynch.

OK, expecting the claim above was a joke, why would you jump on the bandwagon without a good reason? Last day, you said that you were pretty convinced he is town. Between these 2 posts, archon hasn't done anything stupid, has he?

I don't get this

[Looker]

great. Are you lovers with looker and Wall-e too? That is as clear as a bandwagon vote gets. I want reasons! More of them. and on this moment, I want to know why you think it is ok to vote without giving those reasons!

Wait, how do I keep gettin caught up in this Wall-E/Looker lover situation? That ain't got nothin to do with me so keep that little unfunny jokey joke attributed to Wall-E cause it ain't none of my business. And you need to specify on that reasonless vote accusation, homey.

Archon is town.

What brings you to this conclusion, ortolan...?

[ortolan]

Read the post- it's all there.

I think myk and Archon are acting like legitimate townies rather than two of the mafia who chose to fakeclaim with one another. Plus now it's less plausible Tenchi is scum with them- he is scum independently of them.

[Looker]

okay, we'll see

the floor is open for discussion

[mykonian]

great. Are you lovers with looker and Wall-e too? That is as clear as a bandwagon vote gets. I want reasons! More of them. and on this moment, I want to know why you think it is ok to vote without giving those reasons!

Wait, how do I keep gettin caught up in this Wall-E/Looker lover situation? That ain't got nothin to do with me so keep that little unfunny jokey joke attributed to Wall-E cause it ain't none of my business. And you need to specify on that reasonless vote accusation, homey.

I'm sorry. I continued Wall-e's "joke". Because I didn't like Jazzmyn's vote, it is a bandwagonvote, as clear as you get them. Wall-e used his scumclaim to go around the fact that he was also bandwaggoning.

And Looker, I'm not going to lynch you because Wall-e told he was scum with you, of course I'm going to lynch Wall-e. He claimed scum, but that doesn't mean he can't lie about his partners... And because the game is over after we have lynched scum, you don't need to worry about this "joke". It is not counted against you.

[AceMarksman]

mykonian, I don't think you should be lynching haphazardly just because someone joked around. It's a null tell. Chill out.

[Archon]

Vote Count:

Tenchi(1)

- Archon

zwetschenwasser(1)

- Jazzmyn

mikek(1)

- PieIsPopcorn

Archon(4)

- AceMarksman, Tenchi, Looker, Wall-E

Wall-E(1)

- mykonian

Not Voting(4)

- Gregory, mikek, ortolan, zwetschenwasser

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

Prodding Jazzmyn. Ortolan and PieIsPopcorn have not replied to their prods.

Current Deadline:

April 29th, 20:00 Central Time

I'm still voting for zwet?

unvote, vote techni

You must have made a mistake. it's alright though

great. Are you lovers with looker and Wall-e too? That is as clear as a bandwagon vote gets. I want reasons! More of them. and on this moment, I want to know why you think it is ok to vote without giving those reasons!

Wait, how do I keep gettin caught up in this Wall-E/Looker lover situation? That ain't got nothin to do with me so keep that little unfunny jokey joke attributed to Wall-E cause it ain't none of my business. And you need to specify on that reasonless vote accusation, homey.

Archon is town.

What brings you to this conclusion, ortolan...?

Oh, I don't know, maybe the giant wall of text halfway down from the page? Maybe?

Alright.
I have a very strong feeling that about half of the scum are voting for me. Therefore,
FOS; Ace, Techni (for sure), Looker, Jazz.
I will refuse to FOS Wall-E at this time, due to the metaing he has done for me. But Wall-E, I want a good explanation for suddenly changing your vote.

Please note this is not an OMGUS vote. But both Jazz and Looker, as well as Ace have not posted much in general, and their votes were random and sparatic, with them basing things on Techni's bogus case against me.

All caught up on reading, and I do apologize for my limited ability to post this week. It's been insanely busy in real life.

I will address specific posts over the weekend,

but since I am currently voting for zwet and he and Archon are now claiming to be partners (and since I believe it more likely that they are 2 of the scum team than 2 lovers), it makes perfect sense to:

Unvote: zwet
Vote: Archon

Regards,
Jazz

There is no sence in this post. I have never, ever seen Jazz do this before, but for some reason, she is. She claims to be busy (I can understand completley) but then she says the bolded part. She looks like she is attempting to make it look like she was actually doing something, but just really was reading Techi's posts and voting for me as she is scum with Techni IMO.

Let me just say that, from going through both cases, I do believe there's a possibility that both Tenchi and Archon are scum/polygamists; however, I believe moreso in Archon being a polygamist than Tenchi. Opinions would be appreciated.

-post Where I explain my schedule-

This seems to be staged to me and overltly exaggerated.

Staged?! Look at the bottom of the post for my full answer.

Um. Yeah. We don't really need to feel pity for your insane schedule, you know.

I'm not asking for pity, smart one. I'm telling Techni that I had a reason for not posting, and that hes a liar for accusing me of active lurking.

This appears to be that zwet spoke when archon didn't want him to and interfered with the performance.

Zwet always does this. but how do you equate it to me being mafia?

Liar.

QFT IMO.

Oh my god. for the love of Jesus...

-Super long post of Techni attacking me-

I think Tenchi does a better job of assembling a case, or, rather, a post, because this one, I think, is believable.

Believable? Of course you would find it believable. But not for a moment did you go back and actually look at the posts he is refering to, or even look at my posts to confirm Techni's accusations.

-The one where I re-vote Techni, and say his post screems Scum.-

I think Archon doesn't want anyone to trouble the waters so that he can sail through to the end of this game. I believe he's paranoid, which would, to me, imply he has something to hide, i.e., him being a polygamist.

Your case on me for that? And don't use techni's. Use original Info that YOU found.

-Quote of post where I look qat Techni's posts.-

Hence the possibility that they could both be polygamists

Would I really, really get this insane about Techni if he were my partner? Really?

vote Archon

This post is as scummy as it gets. I would like Looker to say something about it too, if he wants.

I'm a little late, I'll admit, but QFT.

Bolding my replies too.

GUYS VOTE ARCHON

I don't think rushing to lynch is pro-town. We have only been playing a week, and have two weeks until deadline.

Tenchi: Then don't rush. But I definitely want to rush my case getting addressed by everyone here. We can't take more than week a discussing this. Unless we find some good tangent.

(Note guys I will piss off two other people we don't know if Archon is scum)

Are you telling us to be suspicious of people defending Archon/zwet being their scum partners? Well, maybe, but this is confirmation bias somewhat, isn't it? Also slightly OMGUS-y as you just got voted by such a person.

Tenchi: That's half of the story. However, I will 100% back off if five-six people are not willing to do it. There is only four scum. So far the defense of Archon is strongly based on meta, so I will continue pushing it.

Before I say anything else, I want all people to respond to my proposal.

Which proposal?

Tenchi: The Archon vote.

Their back-and-forths or whatever you want to call them appear kind of...cattish to me, like kids having an argument with no real result. A "uh-huh!", "nuh-uh!" kind of thing. I'm sorry, but it was just the "Bolding my replies, too!" that got me.

Catish? I'm fighting tooth and nail here!

Anyway, I think they could both be polygamists but I think Archon is the best bet right now.

vote: Archon

It seems as though we have all forgotten this little bit of info made by Techni in his super long post;
"I smell other people as polygamists. And it's now Wall-E Ace or Mikek"
What the heck is this suposed to mean, and how does it not scream Scum?

Let me explain how busy I am, exactly.
I have to do the math I didn't do for Friday, the math due Monday, find a suit, Make a power point for a Project worht 90% of our grade, Report on Christianity, Type out my favorite foods in Spanish, Study for an exam for Spanish, And report on the basic inerr workings of a computer.

Now tell me I'm not busy. and fine, you need more proof?
http://seattleacademy.net/login/index.php
Look here.

I'm in eighth grade math, English, Spanish, Speech and debate, and world geo.

Looker fits nicely, if not sparraticly into the mix.

Um, excuse me? At the time the post in question was made YOU WERE LURKING. So yes, he was blatantly accusing you of lurking, and rightly so. Your vote is nothing but OMGUS with a side of AtE thrown in for flavor.

Unvote. Vote: Archon

Wall-E, I would link you to a game that I've been scum in, but i've never been scum on this site! I have been scum on another site, but by it's site policies, I am not allowed to post links to it anywhere on the internet.

He is basing bogus, no-way-they-can-be-real cases on me. He is accusing me of active lurking, which I am not.
I was calling you an idiot because no one in their right mind would be lurking at 12:00 in the morning on a Sunday night, with school the next day. good enough for you?

[Looker]

great. Are you lovers with looker and Wall-e too? That is as clear as a bandwagon vote gets. I want reasons! More of them. and on this moment, I want to know why you think it is ok to vote without giving those reasons!

Wait, how do I keep gettin caught up in this Wall-E/Looker lover situation? That ain't got nothin to do with me so keep that little unfunny jokey joke attributed to Wall-E cause it ain't none of my business. And you need to specify on that reasonless vote accusation, homey.

I'm sorry. I continued Wall-e's "joke". Because I didn't like Jazzmyn's vote, it is a bandwagonvote, as clear as you get them. Wall-e used his scumclaim to go around the fact that he was also bandwaggoning.

And Looker, I'm not going to lynch you because Wall-e told he was scum with you, of course I'm going to lynch Wall-e. He claimed scum, but that doesn't mean he can't lie about his partners... And because the game is over after we have lynched scum, you don't need to worry about this "joke". It is not counted against you.

Gaah...!

@ Archon: Thank you for your rebuttal/defense, it is much appreciated; however, who would you believe to be scum on your wagon? And any questions that you want to ask me just do it, I'm always willing to answer questions if they're addressed to me.

[mikek]

Firstly, and this is totally aside from the game itself, can we not do the responding with bold inside a quote thing, please? I find it really hard to follow, and respond to.

Tenchi, my response to your 'proposal' is: I will vote for Archon if and when I am convinced he is scum, and I'm not going to be bullied or cajoled into rushing such a decision. This game is not "at a standstill", we've had over 100 posts in the last 3 days or so.

Wall-E's fake claim is a bad joke and unimportant. What does require explanation is how he goes in the space of 24 hours from totally disagreeing with Tenchi's case on Archon (to the point of calling Tenchi scum for pushing it), to apparently agreeing with it enough to vote for Archon. What's changed?

ortolan, you say my questions about why lovers would distance is "your opinion precisely", but I'm not convinced that Archon is innocent and apparently you are. I don't see why you're pretending you agree with me.

I was calling you an idiot because no one in their right mind would be lurking at 12:00 in the morning on a Sunday night, with school the next day. good enough for you?

I think you're misrepresenting Tenchi here. He didn't call you out for not being active at some specific time. He called you out on how content-light your posts had been up until that point. And you yourself admit that you don't usually bother to scum hunt.

As for my opinion on the case on you, it is unchanged. It is a case with some traction, and I hate meta defenses. Your defense has been tepid at best. Nobody has yet explained what is supposedly being misrepresented. The case is not yet convincing enough for me to be ready to see you lynched, and I think it's useful to continue to watch people's reactions to the case. For now, no vote.

[AceMarksman]

Archon, will you stop making bullshit defenses of yourself and die like a good little scum please?

FOS; Ace, Techni (for sure), Looker, Jazz.
I will refuse to FOS Wall-E at this time, due to the metaing he has done for me. But Wall-E, I want a good explanation for suddenly changing your vote.

Wow, that's completely OMGUS. Yeah, let's just FoS everyone who is voting you, THAT will find scum [/sarcasm]. Also, the strong buddying between you and Wall-e is noted, and I now think the scum team is: Archon/zwet/Wall-e/Looker.

Believable? Of course you would find it believable. But not for a moment did you go back and actually look at the posts he is refering to, or even look at my posts to confirm Techni's accusations.

So two people can't find you scum for the exact same reasons? I've seen this defense from two different people in two different games and both of them were scum.