from another perspective, it is a game where augmentation and judgment is all that matters... but I think I agree with you. Typical game: "I'm the vengeful townie. Lynch me and I'll flip a coin." or 10k words to the same effect.
And yes, 689 is at True Love I just went to have lunch and posted without checking the thread. I nominated it for certification.
Empking wrote:The First Part of your breaking strategy: Scum could also claim scum. That's not a problem with the set up.
The second part: This doesn't increase the town's odds of winning.
That's true. But masons will have to claim, since lynching a mason = a town loss. And if masons claim, then scum counterclaim, and again, it is down to a single player to actually play.
If masons claiming leads to masons getting lynched then it ruins your reasoning for masons claiming.
Um, masons
not
claiming is what may lead to masons getting lynched, while masons claiming turns the game into a single player's decision. It is a game without any fun.
So mason claiming leads to masons not getting lynched?
Empking wrote:The First Part of your breaking strategy: Scum could also claim scum. That's not a problem with the set up.
The second part: This doesn't increase the town's odds of winning.
That's true. But masons will have to claim, since lynching a mason = a town loss. And if masons claim, then scum counterclaim, and again, it is down to a single player to actually play.
If masons claiming leads to masons getting lynched then it ruins your reasoning for masons claiming.
Um, masons
not
claiming is what may lead to masons getting lynched, while masons claiming turns the game into a single player's decision. It is a game without any fun.
So mason claiming leads to masons not getting lynched?
No, masons claiming leads to there being two pairs of masons being claimed, leaving the vengeful townie to decide.
Empking wrote:The First Part of your breaking strategy: Scum could also claim scum. That's not a problem with the set up.
The second part: This doesn't increase the town's odds of winning.
That's true. But masons will have to claim, since lynching a mason = a town loss. And if masons claim, then scum counterclaim, and again, it is down to a single player to actually play.
If masons claiming leads to masons getting lynched then it ruins your reasoning for masons claiming.
Um, masons
not
claiming is what may lead to masons getting lynched, while masons claiming turns the game into a single player's decision. It is a game without any fun.
So mason claiming leads to masons not getting lynched?
No, masons claiming leads to there being two pairs of masons being claimed, leaving the vengeful townie to decide.
Why do the masons claim?
Adel: Lovers, roll 1d6 then let the 1d6er roll a dice to work out who the next to lynches are. Is Lovers broken?
actually I just thought of something interesting regarding your setup Empking
if it is agreed beforehand that it is suboptimal town play for masons/scum to claim, then if anyone claims they get autolynched. Then you just play mafia. If the townie gets lynched then they have additional knowledge of who the scummiest on their wagon were. This doesn't change the expected win percentages from a cold hard neutral probabilistic perspective but probably in practice does help town.
Currently modding Mole Mafia: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=20529
Feel free to PM me to be ready in case I need a replacement.
Empking: The masons will claim and the scum will counter, or the scum will claim mason and the mason will counter or the random wagon will be on the Vengeful townie and it will go through to his lynch. The masons aren't going to vote for each other, and neither are the scum. Either way the vengeful townie will be the player who decides.
Your setup is too symmetrical There will be nothing to differentiate between masons and mafia. Each is a set of two players that know each other's alignment and, if lynched, will lose the game.
In ortoleans True Love the mafia can daytalk, and are also lovers with other players. It will also come down to a "coin flip", but it will have a couple of days of information to inform that decision. The mafia will much more likely to have distinct tells from the other players since there is something that makes them different: they know the alignment of player in a different lover pair, and they can secretly communicate with each other.
-- either way the V. has to choose between two identical groups with no informational or motivational difference between them.
Yes, the town is punished for poor play. Why is that bad?
There would be no difference between poor play and good play on the townie's part, because the two groups he has to choose between are functionally identical. Nothing he does will possibly increase his odds of choosing correctly above 50%.
-- either way the V. has to choose between two identical groups with no informational or motivational difference between them.
Yes, the town is punished for poor play. Why is that bad?
There would be no difference between poor play and good play on the townie's part, because the two groups he has to choose between are functionally identical. Nothing he does will possibly increase his odds of choosing correctly above 50%.
They are not functionally identical.
The mafia knows who the town and the mafia are. The masons do not.
The mafia know that one of the other three is the townie, and the other two are masons, but not which is which. The masons know that one of the other three is the townie, and the other two are mafia, but not which is which. What's the difference?
iamausername wrote:The mafia know that one of the other three is the townie, and the other two are masons, but not which is which. The masons know that one of the other three is the townie, and the other two are mafia, but not which is which. What's the difference?
The townie and mason have the same win con, the mafias and townie don't.
iamausername wrote:The mafia know that one of the other three is the townie, and the other two are masons, but not which is which. The masons know that one of the other three is the townie, and the other two are mafia, but not which is which. What's the difference?
The townie and mason have the same win con, the mafias and townie don't.
Please roll 1d100 and hit your head with an eight-pound hammer that many times.
If Mafia B is lynched before Mafia A is lynched, everybody loses.
Mafia A wins all three player endgames.
Everybody knows the full extent of their own role PMs
Any other comment on this? I'm not sure it would be a fun game, but the strategic implications fascinate me.
I think what will end up happening is if you run up a mafia then they will claim Mafia B. If it is actually Mafia A the real Mafia B will argue quite stringently to get them lynched which may well give them away also.
Either way Mafia A is likeliest to win in my opinion.
Currently modding Mole Mafia: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=20529
Feel free to PM me to be ready in case I need a replacement.
Would Mafia B confess if he's about to be lynched? Well, that might save him temporarily. But in order for Mafia B to win, Mafia A must first be lynched (which could still happen) and then Mafia B must survive to endgame (which definitely would not happen). So Mafia B won't confess, no matter what.
Because of that, Mafia A won't claim to be Mafia B. That would be suicide; the town knows Mafia B would never confess, so this person claiming to be Mafia B must actually be Mafia A.
No, no one will claim Mafia B. And if anyone stupidly does, they should be immediately lynched.
^^^ that doesn't actually follow from the setup- if you're confident you caught a scummy I see few instances where you could be confident they're Mafia A rather than B, especially assuming even half-decent scumplay from the scum.
Currently modding Mole Mafia: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=20529
Feel free to PM me to be ready in case I need a replacement.
Only goons and vanillas (perhaps 3 goons and 9 vanillas?).
Day works as always (random voting, tempered arguments, voting and lynching - well you know the drill)
At night EVERYONE sends in a person they wants to have nightkill immunity, and the one with most immunity supporters gets the immunity that night. You shouldn't be able to vouch for yourself.
I just went to have lunch and posted without checking the thread. I nominated it for certification.
