Mini 774: Case Closed Mafia (One Truth Prevails!)

[Sajin]

@SC: Me for ad hominem? Quotes please? I'm pretty sure I was the one yelling at Firestarter for using ad hominem >.<

This stood out looking at your posts in isolation:

You.
Cannot.
Read.

Go.
To.
Kindergarten.

I can't blame you for getting frustrated, though.

Well that's hardly the worst thing I've read on this site... And if you can't blame him for being frustrated then I don't see how you can honestly accuse him of Ad Hominem...

I wouldn't like to be told to go back to kindergarten either. I am implying that there are other ways he could have gone about it, though.

SC, why are you picking out a point with Isaac, only to seem to agree with him afterwards?

I think he agrees with the sentiment but not the implementation, Fire

[Firestarter]

Thats fair enough, but why bring it up in the first place?

[Korlash]

Did you just ask why someone should bring up something they have a problem with?...

[Firestarter]

Did you just ask why someone should bring up something they have a problem with?...

You know what I asked Korlash.

[StrangerCoug]

@SC: Me for ad hominem? Quotes please? I'm pretty sure I was the one yelling at Firestarter for using ad hominem >.<

This stood out looking at your posts in isolation:

You.
Cannot.
Read.

Go.
To.
Kindergarten.

I can't blame you for getting frustrated, though.

Well that's hardly the worst thing I've read on this site... And if you can't blame him for being frustrated then I don't see how you can honestly accuse him of Ad Hominem...

I wouldn't like to be told to go back to kindergarten either. I am implying that there are other ways he could have gone about it, though.

SC, why are you picking out a point with Isaac, only to seem to agree with him afterwards?

I think he agrees with the sentiment but not the implementation, Fire

That is true, but also, Lindisfarne asking me who my top suspect other than Firestarter and millar13 is made me go back and reread. Isacc is the only other person to post something I found objectionable. I'll tell you that the lurkers need to be yelled at as well, though (I specifically said "of the actives" in my response). If you ask me, advocating a lurker lynch is something to be done as a last resort let alone on Day 1.

I'd hate to change the subject from Isacc, but I agree that it's a minor thing I'm getting him on, and something else is getting on my nerves right now that I have yet to bring up: Firestarter seems not to care about being lynched, which to me is tantamount to resignation from the game, yet he's still pushing millar13 and me. I'm confused as to whether he really wants to continue playing.

[Firestarter]

SC, I am resigned to being lynched, Ive mentioned it at least twice in the last few pages.

Ive also asked for town to not end the day right now, after my claim. Ive posted it already, you can look up what Ive suggested beforehand.

But it seems that no-one is going to post until the lurkers say something...
And my guess is that unless someone comes along with the same Townie traits shown by Lindisfarne, then Ill be lynched.

It seems that most are happy to not say anything until Im lynched, therefore minimising the chance they'll come across scummy.
Most of the discussion, if not all, has been on M13 & I.... and between M13 & I, hence the impending lynch.

[Korlash]

You know what I asked Korlash.

... So you are admitting to asking such a blatantly stupid question with such an obvious answer?... What exactly were you planning on getting from this time you fought so hard to get? I mean wasting our time with trival worthless matters doesn't exactly make me want to spend another week with you.

SC, I am resigned to being lynched, Ive mentioned it at least twice in the last few pages.

Ive also asked for town to not end the day right now, after my claim. Ive posted it already, you can look up what Ive suggested beforehand.

... And you say it again.

Vote: Firestarter

He's fine with being lynched and is asking for more time to waste. Add to that his claim isn't exactly foolproof and how much his flip will give us kinda makes my vote a solid...

[Lindisfarne]

Actually, Firestarter's resignation towards being lynched makes him seem more townie to me. Why?

If he was scum, he I can see acting resigned and acceptant to being lynched as a gambit, and indeed, firestarter did just that back when he was at l-4 (I believe it was l-4 at that point).

HOWEVER. If he was scum, and that ploy didn't work, I would expect some backpedaling. If you're getting closer to a lynch, and being acceptant to the lynch isn't working for a scum, I'd forsee the said scummer to pull back and try a different approach. being resigned to death can be a risky ploy. It seems that no matter what aligment, fire still WANTS to be in the game. If he didn't, he'd vote himself. If scum is playing, and is on the chopping block, and a gambit at acting like you dont care if you're voted off doesn't work, then the only saving grace is for you to pull back from that view and fight, and try to refute whatever logic people have on you.

On the FLIP SIDE of the arguement;

And my guess is that unless someone comes along with the same Townie traits shown by Lindisfarne, then Ill be lynched.

Because I don't think fire is scum, he thinks im town. now THAT raises a few eyebrows in my book. It just smells scummy to me.

All in all though, I cannot support a vote on Fire. He has had some scummy behavior, yeah, but the townie tells I've gathered outweigh them.

Isacc: Yeah, I liked playing with you in Neapolitan mafia, and I've seen you play in other games (we have some of the same friends, and they've pointed you out to me before). Mainly because, I've seen you verbally thrash people before, logically, and just in basic arguments. And I hope some game you'll attack me. I think it'll be fun

Your whole argument on policy lynches I completely disagree with. We can lynch off townies until lynch or lose (granted we do not know what day that is, but for game balance reasons I will assume we have 1 or 2 MLes to use).

Whoa, what? You think its a bad idea because we're free to lynch townies until Lylo? Holy Crap.

lets use an example. 10 players in a game, 3 mafia members. d1, a townie is lynched. N1 scum kills a townie. d2, a townie is lynched. n2, scum lynch a townie. Guess what? on d3, there are 3 townies, and 3 scum. Town has a shit poor chance of pulling out from that. It's possible, but not friggin likely.

So there are two days of mislynches there. After two screw ups, mafia has an INSANE advantage (remember, town is about the majority if mafia is equal to town, it puts town in a position that is hard to pull out from). So after just two mislynches, the scum has the game pretty secure.

Now, granted, we do have 12 players, yes. And who knows what roles are in this game? But don't bank on that. We all probably assume there being a cop amongst us, which is a huge asset to town, especially in this game *points to the theme* but who knows what the scum have up their sleeves to balance things out? It's best to not get too caught up in those or bank on roles.

The main point here; in that game with 10 players, assume the town has a good chance still on d2. It's 3 townies and 3 goons. And what do they have to go on? Two days of interrogations? technically one, since on d1 no one really has a strong grasp on suspects, its mostly the guy that smells fishiest sleeps with the fishes. Mafia is about information. The more days we have to judge reactions, to interrogate, the better.

In the end, This is just personal preference, I guess, but I have to strongly disagree with you Sajin.

Also, lynching off firestarter here will allow his flip to tell a lot. In fact I think its scummy wanting to keep him alive at this point.

What the hell will his flip tell? Unless you're banking that whole comment on him being guaranteed scum, and then you can point a finger at whoever defended him (note: me). That tells you possible info on ONE person, if you kill him and he's scum. That is not telling a lot Sajin. Honestly, enlighten me, how will it tell a lot?

As a side note, I think it's scummy how quickly you people want to end this day. Rushing a day only leads to mistakes being made, and bad judgment calls. But of course, that's all a matter of opinion.

And claiming who we think is town and who is not here lets scum set up day 2 better. We already have a decent lynch.

What? How do you play mafia, honestly, I want to know your tactics, because that belief dumbfounds me, and you too korlash.

I am asking now, on d2, who people are suspicious of for a reason. And there is also a reason why I omitted millar and fire. And if you can't figure that out, you don't know how to scum hunt (no offense).

If people ignore the question, or pull out really obscure or wtf logic on their suspects, I'm going to get a scummy vibe from that. Fire and millar took the spotlight, and all eyes have been on them. Scum WILL fade in the background because of that, and feel safe, they have nothing to fear. I ask who people have their eyes on under the basic theory that townies scum hunt.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, and odd for playing this way, but when I play mafia, I don't narrow my eyes on one person when they are under fire, and just drill them, ignoring everyone else. We have 13 pages here, so I am sure each one of you townies has a mental list of who is scummy and who isn't.

Mafia...why would they? They don't scum hunt, they are the scum. They might keep tabs on certain scummy acts, just to bring up later to try and incriminate people, but they would not be keeping tabs half as much as other townies, especially when theres a neck on the chopping block (this is under the assuming theory that fire is innocent).

Next: I did not ask who you think is town, I asked who you think is scummy. And how in the hell would this help scum "set day 2 up better" or help them "decide on who to kill"? A list of folks townies think are scummy on d1 will help sway who they want to kill? Why? How? Huh? Seriously, im baffled, HOW would that honestly help them? I really don't see the sense in what logic you could have behind that. All you are suggesting is that town not share information. Hell, we might as well not even talk about who we're suspicious of for the rest of the game! Because mafia might play off that and do some sort of super NK that will win them the game.

Don't mind the sarcasm, that just really baffles the shit outta me.

I'm sorry, but it takes more than "you're overdoing this" to get me to relax the pressure.

It looked more like you were just baiting him to look like an ass though. If you peck at someone long enough over trivialities, eventually they will flare up, which will make them look awful. I know this tactic, I used it to get a townie to vote him self at lylo, and quit mafia (newbie 681, if you want some light reading material sometime). It's an underhanded tactic. I don't have a problem with the pressure, but the way you went about it felt a bit off (since I've done the same sort of thing as scum).

Stranger, thanks for giving input on your suspicions.

Does everyone else mean to tell me that out of this whole game, the only one you are suspicious of is Fire?

*side note, I have to cut this post short, I was intending to say a bit more, and go into detail about who I found suspicious, but it's late and I just got off work. Running on 2 hours of sleep in the past 24 doesn't help the brain. I'll hit you guys with it after I wake up*

[Sajin]

@Lindisfarne

1: The first part of your post is a WIFOM arguement. Scum could think you would think that and thus adjust their actions/reactions accordingly.

2: I did not say to lynch people I thought were town. I mean random lynching. The 10-3 town scum math odds of winning as town become a lot better RL twice then NLing 4 times, even with a cop accounted for in the period before LY/LO

3: His flip gives us more information regardless of what direction the flip is. Obviously it would help more if he is indeed scum.

4: It is not D2, it is D1. I will probably post a list on D2. If not then, D3 for sure. I think we have a decent first day lynch. But giving more info to the scum lets them setup better for the next day. I am not going to example this because no mafia game thread should ever have decent scum tactics posted in it. However right now I think we have a lynch and I would rather us post all the information we have tomorrow. Posting it right now would setup better night actions for scum.

4 "next": So your saying a list of scum does not provide a list of who you think is town as well?

@ sidenote: plz save that for after the night actions please.

[millar13]

Lindifarne who are your current top suspects though?

[Gorrad]

alexhans replaces Pacman281292. Rage has requested replacement.

Vote Count:

Firestarter(5): Sajin, Isacc, StrangerCoug, Millar13, Korlash
Korlash(1): alexhans
Millar13(1): Firestarter
StrangerCoug(1): Afatchic
Dubya(1): GhostWriter
Pacman281292(1): Rage

Not Voting(2): Lindisfarne, Battousai

Previous votecounts have been editted to reflect that Ghostwriter has not, in fact, had one vote on him with no one voting for him for the past several counts.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Please prod afatchic.

[Gorrad]

Mod: Please prod afatchic.

Done.

[Battousai]

2: I did not say to lynch people I thought were town. I mean random lynching. The 10-3 town scum math odds of winning as town become a lot better RL twice then NLing 4 times, even with a cop accounted for in the period before LY/LO

3: His flip gives us more information regardless of what direction the flip is. Obviously it would help more if he is indeed scum.

1) Then why post it? It is useless information, as I'm most confident no one planned on no lynching until endgame...

2) You didn't answer the question. The question was what information would be gained, not what flip would give us information.

[alexhans]

Hi everyone. I'm gonna read this game and give you my thoughts ASAP.

[Sajin]

2: I did not say to lynch people I thought were town. I mean random lynching. The 10-3 town scum math odds of winning as town become a lot better RL twice then NLing 4 times, even with a cop accounted for in the period before LY/LO

3: His flip gives us more information regardless of what direction the flip is. Obviously it would help more if he is indeed scum.

1) Then why post it? It is useless information, as I'm most confident no one planned on no lynching until endgame...

2) You didn't answer the question. The question was what information would be gained, not what flip would give us information.

1:My other quote that this refers to is referring to the possibility of them being either scum or town. Its not useless depends on meta, but I have no idea what the meta of this game would be. But it was a meta argument to counter a meta argument. Neither is that useful to this actual game.

2: The information gained would be the insight into his posts. Because he posted a lot I referred to a lot of information. Knowing the alignment behind 75 posts or whatever he is up to now in the thread adds up to a lot of stuff that can be dug through.

[alexhans]

I'm on page 6 and already afraid that there is gonna be a smart myslinch regarding Fire. I'm pretty positive that there is scum on that waggon. I'm not waiting till I finish my reading to tell you this because I'm afraid someone might hammer.

DONT DARE HAMMER!!!

If you do... I'll pursue you tomorrow till you're lynched...

Leave us replacements time to post and get answered.

[alexhans]

EDIT: get answers

[alexhans]

oh... my bad... It's 7 to lynch... Not 6... Anyway... The warning still stands if suddenly 2 players decide to vote him

MOD: Could you put how many votes are needed for a lynch in vote count, please?

[Gorrad]

MOD: Could you put how many votes are needed for a lynch in vote count, please?

Sure.

[StrangerCoug]

I'm on page 6 and already afraid that there is gonna be a smart myslinch regarding Fire.

Excuse me, but, uh... "smart mislynch"? The only way I'm making sense of this is if you know Firestarter to be town, which is impossible in a day start unless you're scum.

FoS: alexhans

[millar13]

Especially when only any possibility he might actually not be scum, came in much later. It is as if you reading, but you already know something.

[alexhans]

Yeah... right. You are scared of me... If you must know... I'm really suspicious of you SC so start imagining what you're going to say when I come down on you. Your whole pushing both cases without commiting and trying to follow the trend of Fire without argumenting is gonna be hard to explain. You assumed that miller would be best to have around? (with all his pro town actions? [/sarcasm])

You know replacements are scum's worst enemy right? (unless they're scum, of course)

So... Fosing me before I can question you is not gonna work. I already got you in my sight.

Stay tuned for my post. I assume it will be ready tomorrow night (I got other things to do besides this, if not I would be delighted to present it much sooner)

[alexhans]

Oh... and:

already

afraid

that there is gonna be a smart myslinch

The only way I'm making sense of this is if you know Firestarter to be town, which is impossible in a day start unless you're scum.

Notice the afraid? You're stretching. I never said he was town. I just had that fear. A quicklynch can be disastrous and after your vote on page 6 it sure seemed going that way. Fosing me for the first thing I write? Is it because you know I've seen you as scum and think I may tunnelvission you or something?

Especially when only any possibility he might actually not be scum, came in much later. It is as if you reading, but you already know something.

Same as before. Haven't read the whole game. Just looked at the last votecount to see where we were standing.

[StrangerCoug]

Notice the afraid? You're stretching. I never said he was town. I just had that fear. A quicklynch can be disastrous and after your vote on page 6 it sure seemed going that way.

I think the word "smart" is more important. Mislynching is smart only for scum. Of the interpretations of "smart mislynch" that are coming to mind, none usually end up being very good for the town.

Fosing me for the first thing I write? Is it because you know I've seen you as scum and think I may tunnelvission you or something?

Uhh... The only game so far we've both played, you replaced me as scum. I don't know what bearing the tunnel vision question has here.