Mini 765 - Welcome to Hambargarville GAME OVER!!

[Jase]

Jase, here's a question for you. What are your opinions on everything that's happened since page 10 or so? In detail.

At-a-glance...I think there's been a lot of question, acusations, etc. that have been ignored, and not just by Wall-E. Though I can't help but wonder why you're asking me this now.

Well, you asked us to pressure you. And in detail.

Sure...I couldn't help but notice, though, that you asked me to do a bunch of work just after I suggested that you systematically refute wall-es case...

[Idiotking]

I have kindly done as he asked by presenting a wallpost of things he needs to address. I'm waiting for him to respond in kind, as I requested. I'll be civil. We can do this as gentlemen. Until I hang him.

[X]

“In detail” ≠ “At-a-glance”

In other news, due to chemical contamination, Bill Nye was found immune to the effects of iocaine powder. More news at 11.

This is fantastic.

Jase, you have been less active than many of the people here. That's why we're asking you for more detail. And IK should respond to the questions he's asked, but Wall-E's request is excessive. And I didn't realize until after I posted that IK had collected the questions.

Wall-E, please answer IK's, YB's, and my questions as soon as you can.

[Wall-E]

Idiotking's assembled questions I've "ignored":

@Wall-E,

You completely ignored my post 331.
I asked some questions in the end.

Putting the strings together:
Major question: why did you unvote when you "noted a connection"?
You did not remember why you voted, but did remember why you unvoted?

Already answered.

Oh...I see. Wall-E...I'm a GIRL. When you kept saying "he" I thought you were referring to IK, so that's a large part of why I was confused. But reading the "he" parts to be directed towards me...your post makes more sense now.

Anyway, one rather large hole in your argument:

He starts by distancing IK, but soon downgrades his vote on IK to an FoS.

Would be a interesting theory...unfortunately, it never happened.

The vote you are referring to is a figment of your imagination.

I voted Llue as a joke in the RVS stage (for being an Euler groupie), FOSed Kre for not liking peeps, FOSed IK for not revoting (something which many ppl thought was a bit scummy), voted for you while you were AWOL, unvoted when you returned, and then revoted for you when I felt your behavior warranted it, and there it lived until I switched it to Hero.

Regarding:

Next he throws some suspicion my way and parrots someone else's reasoning, then becomes increasingly "upset" with my failure to address some points, allowing that to be his reason for voting me. Later, he builds a case on me, completing the tunnel.

That's also pretty inaccurate. I wasn't "upset" with your failure to respond. I WAS upset. You have admitted that your behavior at that point wasn't helping the town at all. And seriously, Wall-e...you posted an apology and asked for time to dig your way out, and since then I have really been trying to give you some breathing room to dig your way out of the hole. That HARDLY constitutes tunneling.

I'm sorry, but your whole argument isn't very logical to me. After your apology post, can you provide examples of me tunneling on you? And before it...well, you have admitted yourself that your behavior wasn't exactly pro-town. Its not wrong in a game of mafia to go after someone who is showing anti-town behavior.

I don't see much to comment on here. It's up to you to decide who's lying about what in this case. I stand by my observations with the caveat that YB did NOT in fact VOTE for IK, but did have a small connection to him in the early game, and now that he's on my tail, so is YB. The potential for connection is irrefutable.

This made me lol irl. Many of Wall-e's posts seem to have decided that IK is scum, and are thrashing about frantically to find some scum...any scum...that will fit.

I see no question here.

And this progression, IMO, is hilarious:

@Wall-e: You completely did not respond to my post 410. Me pointing out that you MADE UP A VOTE isn't something you should ignore. I do not know if you made it up on purpose or on accident, and I also realize that even if you did it on purpose you would say its on accident so you don't have to point that out. However, some sort of response is appropriate. Also I am waiting for your response to my tunneling question.

Your imaginary vote post makes me want to vote for you again, and the ***ONLY*** thing keeping me from doing so is that you are so close to a lynch.

Are you denying early-game suspicion on IK on your part?

As his only response to YB, and then follows it with:

IK remains dismissive. His anger grants him some town points, but not enough for me to pull my vote off him.

Oh, by the way, Wall-E, you're NOT voting for me at the moment.

Now, he's incontrovertibly misrepresenting the facts

twice

here, which is pretty often compared to normal D1 discussion. I can't be certain that this is not an honest mistake, but it bothers me. And he still hasn't responded to my whole counterargument to his case against me. I really hope that your next post addresses this.

I see no question here and stand by my decision that IK and YB are scumpartners based only on my original readthrough. The counter-argument that he never voted does not change the fact that words speak louder than his vote. I'm willing to admit it's a weak connection at best... did you want me to keep my opinion a secret or to myself?

Hey guess what? It's up to you to convince me that I would be hurting us tremendously, which you haven't fucking shown any interest in.

I disagree. I have shown tremendous interest in scumhunting. Self-defense is really secondary, don't you think? Not to mention the supposed lack of interest in self-defense on my part has been largely exaggerated.

Meh, if nobody agrees with an IK vote I'll stop pushing it, but it's my best lead. Let me know if anyone wants me to claim.

You have other leads. Your vote is currently on Hero. You find X scummy. You find me scummy. You find Cubarey scummy (although he is awol so you are probably prudent in leaving that one alone til a replacement is found). Why not follow up on Hero, X, and myself? There are certainly enough open questions there.

Regarding the claim...you at at L-1. I've never had to claim personally (as I mentioned, my mafia experience is still pretty limited)...but if you are town and you think it will help your case...maybe you should? Your behavior overall hasn't been very pro-town, but if you are just a not very effective townie I have no desire to lynch you.

Wall-E's play continues to be scummy. I don't know if I buy the Asperger's claim in 407. It seems like the symptoms would preclude one from being able to effectively play mafia.

I think that's one of those things where it is better to assume it is true.

I see no questions here. Lucky for me (and everyone else) YB does not get to decide who I find scummy.

And ever blathering, ever redundant, the broken record goes on.......

WHY HASN'T ANYTHING RELEVANT HAPPENED SINCE PAGE 4, WALL-E?!?!??

Who said that?

YOU HAVEN'T ANSWERED TO, ACKNOWLEDGED, EXPLAINED, OR NOTICED

ANY

OF THIS.

Now defend yourself.

Ironic, coming from you.

[Wall-E]

Hero: I meant you'd be hurting the town by cutting off discussion. I'm not going to claim that lynching me would hurt the town, because such a claim would be penultimate WIFOM. For the record, it would.

[Idiotking]

Ok. Wall-E. You fail. Your defense is so pathetically hollow that it's sickening.

If you've got anything else to say, fine. Do as I ask and list your arguments against me as I have against you. But as far as I'm concerned, this day is over. I'm just waiting for someone to hammer and put an end to this nightmare.

[Wall-E]

So you were never really interested in what I had to say, since you were going to vote me regardless then? Or did you want to formulate some questions from the crappy hodge-podge of random posts tossing accusations at me you assembled when I called your bluff?

[Wall-E]

Ok. Wall-E. You fail. Your defense is so pathetically hollow that it's sickening.

If you've got anything else to say, fine. Do as I ask and list your arguments against me as I have against you. But as far as I'm concerned, this day is over. I'm just waiting for someone to hammer and put an end to this nightmare.

I think I really got under your skin! Please don't take my play style personally. I'm not a mean person, just very dry. Ignore this if I'm wrong about it, please.

[Idiotking]

So you were never really interested in what I had to say, since you were going to vote me regardless then? Or did you want to formulate some questions from the crappy hodge-podge of random posts tossing accusations at me you assembled when I called your bluff?

Oh, I was interested. You don't understand that when you're on the chopping block every single thing you do has to have a reason, and a damn good one at that. And if you don't understand that, no amount of goading on my part will force you to defend yourself. So I do the smart thing and just accept the fact that you won't or can't, and kill you. It's as simple as that.

Now gather up your "case" so I can blow it to pieces and hammer the final nail in your coffin.

[Jase]

Last post of the night for me. I'll try and post something in depth-ish tomorrow.

Also I think there's more to do today, and should only move forward with a lynch when nobody has anything new to add, or if there is a deadline.

[Wall-E]

Why the hesitancy? Why not just do it?

[Wall-E]

That was directed at IK.

[Wall-E]

I mean, really, the case against me boils down to, "We don't know who else to lynch, and Wall-E is annoying." At least, that's what I'm seeing.

[yellowbunny]

yellowbunny wrote:
Oh...I see. Wall-E...I'm a GIRL. When you kept saying "he" I thought you were referring to IK, so that's a large part of why I was confused. But reading the "he" parts to be directed towards me...your post makes more sense now.

Anyway, one rather large hole in your argument:

Quote:

He starts by distancing IK, but soon downgrades his vote on IK to an FoS.


Would be a interesting theory...unfortunately, it never happened. The vote you are referring to is a figment of your imagination.
I voted Llue as a joke in the RVS stage (for being an Euler groupie), FOSed Kre for not liking peeps, FOSed IK for not revoting (something which many ppl thought was a bit scummy), voted for you while you were AWOL, unvoted when you returned, and then revoted for you when I felt your behavior warranted it, and there it lived until I switched it to Hero.

Regarding:
Quote:

Next he throws some suspicion my way and parrots someone else's reasoning, then becomes increasingly "upset" with my failure to address some points, allowing that to be his reason for voting me. Later, he builds a case on me, completing the tunnel.


That's also pretty inaccurate. I wasn't "upset" with your failure to respond. I WAS upset. You have admitted that your behavior at that point wasn't helping the town at all. And seriously, Wall-e...you posted an apology and asked for time to dig your way out, and since then I have really been trying to give you some breathing room to dig your way out of the hole. That HARDLY constitutes tunneling.

I'm sorry, but your whole argument isn't very logical to me. After your apology post, can you provide examples of me tunneling on you? And before it...well, you have admitted yourself that your behavior wasn't exactly pro-town. Its not wrong in a game of mafia to go after someone who is showing anti-town behavior.


I don't see much to comment on here. It's up to you to decide who's lying about what in this case. I stand by my observations with the caveat that YB did NOT in fact VOTE for IK, but did have a small connection to him in the early game, and now that he's on my tail, so is YB. The potential for connection is irrefutable.

You STILL aren't addressing the tunneling question. I asked for examples. Can you provide any? Since you keep failing to answer this question, am I to assume that this means you were wrong on this point too?

yellowbunny wrote:
Wall-e wrote:

Meh, if nobody agrees with an IK vote I'll stop pushing it, but it's my best lead. Let me know if anyone wants me to claim.


You have other leads. Your vote is currently on Hero. You find X scummy. You find me scummy. You find Cubarey scummy (although he is awol so you are probably prudent in leaving that one alone til a replacement is found). Why not follow up on Hero, X, and myself? There are certainly enough open questions there.

Regarding the claim...you at at L-1. I've never had to claim personally (as I mentioned, my mafia experience is still pretty limited)...but if you are town and you think it will help your case...maybe you should? Your behavior overall hasn't been very pro-town, but if you are just a not very effective townie I have no desire to lynch you.

Qwints wrote:

Wall-E's play continues to be scummy. I don't know if I buy the Asperger's claim in 407. It seems like the symptoms would preclude one from being able to effectively play mafia.


I think that's one of those things where it is better to assume it is true.


I see no questions here. Lucky for me (and everyone else) YB does not get to decide who I find scummy.

Last time I checked, sentences that end with a question mark are...um, QUESTIONS.

And on your snarky little comment on me deciding who you find scummy, I was listing out the people YOU have called out for being scummy in the past. Its a valid question. Answer it.

[Idiotking]

Why the hesitancy? Why not just do it?

As soon as the nonvoters get on, I will.

I also would like to point out your hesitation at presenting your argument against me. Are you admitting that you don't have one?

[Wall-E]

You don't get to decide who I build cases against, YB. How many times am I going to answer this question for you?

[Wall-E]

Why the hesitancy? Why not just do it?

As soon as the nonvoters get on, I will.

I also would like to point out your hesitation at presenting your argument against me. Are you admitting that you don't have one?

No hesitancy. After I'm dead the case will still be there, waiting for someone to find it. I'm happy with where I am right now.

What's the case against me again?

[Idiotking]

No hesitancy. After I'm dead the case will still be there, waiting for someone to find it.

Congrats on basically admitting that you don't have a case at all. I would feel sorry for you, but it'd be wasted emotion.

[hambargarz]

VOTE COUNT

(5) Wall-E (X, qwints, Sajin, yellowbunny, Idiotking)

(1) CUBAREY (Kreriov)
(1) X (CUBAREY)
(1) Idiotking (Wall-E)

Not voting
burfy, Ojanen, Hero764, Jase

[Sajin]

In other news, due to chemical contamination, Bill Nye was found immune to the effects of iocaine powder. More news at 11.

This is fantastic.

I am glad someone got it.

[yellowbunny]

You don't get to decide who I build cases against, YB. How many times am I going to answer this question for you?

No you did NOT answer my question. I'm going to assume here that you are not trying to be mean/sarcastic, and that you misunderstood my question. So let me rephrase, in more detail, what I am asking:

I want to know why you decided that IK's case is so much stronger than those other cases you had advanced previously. It seems like you are tunneling on IK. Why do you think it is not worthwhile to pursue those other cases you have listed?

Also, why when you mention other players, do you only focus on how they might be connected to IK? Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps you are wrong about IK?

[Wall-E]

It has. I typically rely on a mostly-sane town to derail me when I'm off-base. I've been at L-1 in this exact same situation before and been proven right in the end. Should IK flip town I will accordingly adjust my plays.

[yellowbunny]

It has. I typically rely on a mostly-sane town to derail me when I'm off-base. I've been at L-1 in this exact same situation before and been proven right in the end. Should IK flip town I will accordingly adjust my plays.

Quick point: you're currently at L-2, not L-1, so you do have a little breathing room.

I am starting to get the impression that you don't really care if you are lynched. I think I remember reading you say somewhere (from when I was doing my meta on you) that if you get lynched when you are town, you pretty much just feel vindicated because your accusers were shown to be wrong. (Correct me if I'm wrong on that.) That might be amusing to you, but doesn't do town a damn bit of good.

Your discussion of your Aspergers makes more sense of what I read both in this game, and doing meta reading on you.

I am currently entertaining the thought that your "difficult" behavior and "unwillingness" to answer questions is coming more out of a break down in communication between myself (and some of the others) and you. This last exchange between you and I about your other suspects than IK is an example of this. You were being (as it seemed to me) a jerk and blowing off my questions. But when I assumed you just didn't understand what I am getting at, and reworded my questions, I got a somewhat better response.

You said you feel that the case on you boils down to you being annoying. I assure you, that is NOT how we perceive it. It seems to us that you are dodging questions because you know there is not a good answer to them because you are scum.

So if you really are townie, I'd like to make the following suggestion. Stop ignoring questions, even if they seem dumb or illogical to you. You don't have to answer the question, but you should acknowledge the question. For example, if you think someone is asking you a loaded question, say "I don't feel comfortable answering that because that's a loaded question" or if you think a question is pointless say "I feel the answer to that question is obvious" or things like that. I realize these things might seem silly and pointless for you, but they are actually useful in that they a.) flat out ignoring questions tends to make people angry and b.) if you misunderstood a question, that should become obvious and the person asking you can restate their question so its clearer what they mean.

I hope this post isn't out of line...I am trying to be helpful, and it would suck if we lynched you based on a rather long series of miscommunications.

[Wall-E]

It has. I typically rely on a mostly-sane town to derail me when I'm off-base. I've been at L-1 in this exact same situation before and been proven right in the end. Should IK flip town I will accordingly adjust my plays.

Quick point: you're currently at L-2, not L-1, so you do have a little breathing room.

I am starting to get the impression that you don't really care if you are lynched. I think I remember reading you say somewhere (from when I was doing my meta on you) that if you get lynched when you are town, you pretty much just feel vindicated because your accusers were shown to be wrong. (Correct me if I'm wrong on that.) That might be amusing to you, but doesn't do town a damn bit of good.

Untrue.

Your discussion of your Aspergers makes more sense of what I read both in this game, and doing meta reading on you.

I am currently entertaining the thought that your "difficult" behavior and "unwillingness" to answer questions is coming more out of a break down in communication between myself (and some of the others) and you. This last exchange between you and I about your other suspects than IK is an example of this. You were being (as it seemed to me) a jerk and blowing off my questions. But when I assumed you just didn't understand what I am getting at, and reworded my questions, I got a somewhat better response.

You said you feel that the case on you boils down to you being annoying. I assure you, that is NOT how we perceive it. It seems to us that you are dodging questions because you know there is not a good answer to them because you are scum.

So if you really are townie, I'd like to make the following suggestion. Stop ignoring questions, even if they seem dumb or illogical to you. You don't have to answer the question, but you should acknowledge the question. For example, if you think someone is asking you a loaded question, say "I don't feel comfortable answering that because that's a loaded question" or if you think a question is pointless say "I feel the answer to that question is obvious" or things like that. I realize these things might seem silly and pointless for you, but they are actually useful in that they a.) flat out ignoring questions tends to make people angry and b.) if you misunderstood a question, that should become obvious and the person asking you can restate their question so its clearer what they mean.

I hope this post isn't out of line...I am trying to be helpful, and it would suck if we lynched you based on a rather long series of miscommunications.

Thank you very much for this post. It really does help me out a lot to hear feedback like this on how I present myself, as that is one of the things I struggle with. I will take what you have said here into careful consideration.

[Wall-E]

Qualification on the word untrue: I don't feel vindicated when lynched as town. I feel... frustrated.