Mini 774: Case Closed Mafia (One Truth Prevails!)

[alexhans]

Yes. It is smart for scum to accomplish a mislynch... So? (I mean, as you will se when I order my notes and post, that there is probably scum in that waggon)

Yeah. I replaced you as scum therefore I know a bit of your thoughts processes. And maybe that would lead you to think I'm gonna suspect you. Anyway, I don't think I'm gonna pull meta on you. I should study more cases were you're town first.

Well. Enough with the partially informed posts. I'll come back when I have all the info about the day. This talking without knowing is not me. I just found strange that of all players you would be the one that fosed me.

[StrangerCoug]

Yes. It is smart for scum to accomplish a mislynch... So? (I mean, as you will se when I order my notes and post, that there is probably scum in that waggon)

I'm starting to see where you're getting at, but we don't know whether Firestarter is scum or simply town acting scummy. That's the problem I see with your statement.

I'd rather Firestarter defend himself, but if you believe the cases on him to be crap, say so and explain why.

[Firestarter]

The case most who have votes on me for, I have already refuted SC.

If only people would take the time to read and analyse it.

I get the distinct impression that the level of detail I included has put off certain players from doing so.

There's been a distinct cop-out by players in this game, who would rather read the less-detailed case by M13, and still in my opinion, a weak case that was well refuted, place their vote on me, and not bother to actually take in what Ive been saying.

The truth is, that M13 & I went head to head quite early, and the sole focus was on both of us... Nothing else worth mentioning really stood out.

At this point, I may well put it down to 2 stubborn townies battling it out, and the other players simply watching from the sidelines offering their "thoughts and votes" on proceedings.

If you want to see me defending myself, go back in time, and analyse what I wrote already.
Im not prepared to dredge through the game AGAIN to appease those who probably wont even bother reading it anyway.

[Isacc]

I'm doing a full reread, in response to LF's request. I still think we should lynch though...

Once I finish my in-depth re-read of epic analyzationism, I will post again.

[Battousai]

I think we have waited long enough for the inactives to post/be replaced. The game is starting to die down which is worse.

Vote: Firestarter

[StrangerCoug]

I believe that makes it L-1. Firestarter, if you really want to play, then it's high time you did some scumhunting. Otherwise, self-hammer right now. I'm pretty sure you're scum, but I haven't forgotten millar13, and alexhans is somebody that I'm looking at too.

[alexhans]

I think we have waited long enough for the inactives to post/be replaced. The game is starting to die down which is worse.

Vote: Firestarter

Wow... Usually what scum says when they don't know how to push a quicklynch when not every player is playing. I haven't posted my notes in 24 hs and you are already calling for a hammer? Aren't you a little bit interested in what I might have to say?

Wait a bit more and I'll order my notes and post them... I just didn't want to flood the thread with a response to every quote I found strange because it will probably not be read. I'm trying to make a Tl;Dr... Also, I had some meta that showed that millar has random voted in the last finished games he's played and voted a self voter because he couldn't stand self voting while now he ignored Koresh and said he didn't random vote.

Patience. Content IS coming. There's no need to rush the vote if you're town. Scum are the only ones interested in keeping content talk to a minimum... Be pro-town.

[Battousai]

5 days is a long time to wait for a lynch. People get bored, interests go down, the game becomes less fun.

[alexhans]

Ok... Fuck the Tl;Dr... I'll post the some notes I made. It's not in order. It is a mess. But you are in a hurry so... Later I will try to right a summary of my views and my questions.

* Millar is a player that may post 2000 times in 1 day. (Similar to Zwets but with better intentions, he usually tries to scumhunt).

* In this game he has laid a trap with the non voting.

I don't vote in the random stage, but HIYA

He doesn't vote in random stage? Why?
open 124 and some other games that I will look up later (i lost the txt I'd written about it) are not consistent with his non-voting now.

*Why does everybody say Fire insulted or was rude when millar wrote earlier:

In this game you have to be a little over the top...you need to blow the small clues out of proportion otherwise really you need to leave mafiascum and go back to playing cluedo with your kid sister.

Ok. Millar. It was all well until you made this comment. Just because you think you know doesn't necesarilly mean you're right. Say what you want but with respect to others please. I think personal attacks don't contribute at all to the game.



Ok... 18 posts and I see Kolash self voting??? :shocked: Are we gonna have anti town players here?
millar not voting in RVs.

Vote: Pacman281292

Entirely random. I just want to participate!

Seems to be really careful about letting everyone know it's random.

I've only known scum players to try and make a game serious A.S.A.P
so doing so was a scum tell

Towny doesn't feel akward around the random stage

I disagree completely.

I'm more on the lines of SC than Koresh in my thinking. I think what millar did was to set up a silly trap and call out the first player that voted for him.

Strangecoug is probably a townie who believes he is a "scum-hunter" but is going in all gones blazing.

Wow... Millar the experienced is condescending with newb SC...
FoSing in RVS is scary...

If you read Post 42 Sajin you would have noticed, that I no longer FOS Battousai and instead I am looking at Firestarter in stead

Is there such thing as UnFosing?

And I don't feel that way at all. Although, I do feel you FOS is a predicatable defensive mechanism

Millar REALLY needs to be careful with the wording.

In terms of Strangecoug he is coming off as a generic town player, I have played with a number of times.

In this game you have to be a little over the top...you need to blow the small clues out of proportion otherwise really you need to leave mafiascum and go back to playing cluedo with your kid sister.

Ok. Millar. It was all well until you made this comment. Just because you think you know doesn't necesarilly mean you're right. Say what you want but with respect to others please. I think personal attacks don't contribute at all to the game.


mmm... I don't like SC's way of making fire suspicious too without much foundations. He just makes him look suspicious with 1-liners.

Let's get this going. Gonna try out a new playstyle here, so be prepared lol =P

Why should he feel that it was necessary to explain he would be changing his playstyle?
111: Battou says Firestarter did OMGUS? HOW?

Firestarter claims null-tells can't give reads. Have you meta'd Millar yet? If so, you should know that he is an Empking, or a Zwet, meaning that most of the stuff you are accusing him of are null-tells.

Or, to some extent, a StrangerCoug. I'm getting better, though.

So this is all you had to say about Isaac's hasty post?

We just found millar13's scumbuddy...

And you're not saying who it is straight up because?

Isaac had posted right before that. While I don't agree with Fire's quick association I don't see why would you have missed this.

Also I would like to know where both Korlash and Strangecoug stand at the moment, considering these are the only other active two that really have contributed anything of reall value thus far to this game

I've already said what I think about you, and Firestarter's going downhill.

Ok, millar13, you have 2 hours to post your case on me, Ill be gone for this time.

I don't think two hours is a fair time limit. Upgrade to an

HoS: Firestarter

.

[/quote]
WHY???? WHY DO YOU ACCUSE FIRE?
the only "case" you had on him was his not voting Millar...

FoS:StrangerCoug

dude, after all that had happened since your last post this is not enough. Especially since Fire has already a huge waggon on him.

The fact is millar, you called me likely scum in your 5th post, after my first 4 posts, which were in the RVS, like it or not.
Your case goes back way further than Isaac's or Battousai's posts.

From now on I am IGNORING you. And yes you did twist me words especially concerning the "concrete" bit. Stop with your spin and accept your fate

This just makes it definite? Why would town IGNORE someone? Because they're confortable with the position they're now and would like everyone else to vote with so little?

it is because he only reads the posts he wants too...and even then, he chooses to read them in a way that suits "his game"

Sensless accusations...

From what I see at this point, Firestarter and millar13 might as well be bussing each other

Bussing each other day 1???? Why do you see the need to do that? This is you again trying to make both suspicious as if you liked to see one lynched today and the other tomorrow.
Post 151 and you already say that fire is going downhill and push his lynch?
153:

I think we get more information out of a firestarter lynch at this point.

why did you thought that?

Remember that I was voting millar13 before I switched to you. If I believe that my top two suspects are equally scummy, I will vote the person closer to getting lynched so my vote does not act as dead weight

So here you're excusing that you will vote the most likely to get lynched...

*Isaac made a post in wich the first thing he did was say fire was scum and then proceded to misinterpret the broken finger issue. Fire said that with broken fingers you might miss a letter but not write an entirely different word. I agree.

isaac 107 do you really think this a case? a good post? one definite scum read and 2 town reads when they're just starting the game?

I knew your vote would stay on me, from the first time you un-voted me. The needless uvotes in-between just shows me that you may just be a townie who doesn't actually have full confidence in his scum-hunting abilities. In fact the more I think about it, it isn't that your coming off scummy but more that you just aren't a very good townie.

You sure changed your mind quickly...

I would post a more content-rich post, however Millar seems to be doing well enough on his own, and we all know that Firestarter won't pay any attention to me anyways (as he still never even countered or acknowledged my original arguments against him).

I won't post because someone is doing good? lame. And he did answer your post.



*SC states that millar case is good... but doesn't say why. SC thinks they might be bussing... (on day 1:?)

Most of what concerns me about millar13 is the early part of this game. You, on the other hand, have been responding very poorly to pressure lately

This attacking without examples... Why you think he responded bad under pressure? I think his defense post was pretty decent.

Now you clearly are not just a plain vanilla townie...that is more than clear from post 121. Clearly you are sitting on some sort of power position (I doubt you pro-town, so the assumption almost concretes scum) otherwise you wouldn't be so frustrated and resorting to using offensive language. Why would someone with no real power feel the need to swear and your such horrible and disgusting I do not know.

Remember the quote where YOU we're aggresive. How's it different?

is that a large amount of my case is built upon the fact that people actually see you in the same way as I do

Did you even stop to think that maybe scum is following your waggon? Argumentun Ad Populus is not enough.

It isn't compulsory and therefore, be not taking part really should not be seen as some sort of issue

But it is odd. As the examples I gave you don't show you doing the same...

You then for some unknown reason suggest that both of them are scum, and then unvote and

Vote afatchic (by the time you have voted a second time, you have ended your personal random stage

Dude... Didn't you read his obvscum as a joke? I did. It was like his 3rd post... Since when you dictate what is and isn't random?

Once again you you jumped on a altercation and made it your business to vote against for the third time

with no real case.

He had a case IMO. You had just contradicted yourself with the scum wants to end RVS.

Only two posts later you have then unvoted me, and put me on MAJOR FOS. Making you undecisive but also seeming as the fact that pacman didn't actually seem to back you reason, as the reason why you felt you need to back off yourself.

Now, here you make a good point. His unvoting so fast feels weird. Especially when you were not in danger of being lynched.

Isaac made some good points, not all great or perfect, but some good points none the less

Wich ones?

When I flip town, does your "Idea" of millar & me bussing each other excuse him from a lynching?

Same idea I had.

You say Ive been responding poorly to pressure, and that Ive been going downhill...
At least have the balls to point to some examples, I cannot defend against the invisible.

It's the same thing I wrote earlier.

Basically I'm seeing a bad play by millar that quickly found himself in a fight to death (from his side) with fire and a lot of opportunistic people jumped on the waggon without much explanation and tried to beat Fire with just the amount of people and not logic.

I'm still at page 8 because I went back several times to re-read a few things to be clear about them. While they are a few scummy things about fire...
Especially his calling Isaac scumbuddy (wrong move) I have a bad feeling about his waggon and have a decent town read on him

[StrangerCoug]

Firestarter claims null-tells can't give reads. Have you meta'd Millar yet? If so, you should know that he is an Empking, or a Zwet, meaning that most of the stuff you are accusing him of are null-tells.

Or, to some extent, a StrangerCoug. I'm getting better, though.

So this is all you had to say about Isaac's hasty post?

Pretty much.

We just found millar13's scumbuddy...

And you're not saying who it is straight up because?

Isaac had posted right before that. While I don't agree with Fire's quick association I don't see why would you have missed this.

What you quote from Firestarter is all he said in that post. He didn't make any references to whom, and I didn't make the connection that it was a comment about the previous poster.

Also I would like to know where both Korlash and Strangecoug stand at the moment, considering these are the only other active two that really have contributed anything of reall value thus far to this game

I've already said what I think about you, and Firestarter's going downhill.

Ok, millar13, you have 2 hours to post your case on me, Ill be gone for this time.

I don't think two hours is a fair time limit. Upgrade to an

HoS: Firestarter

.

WHY???? WHY DO YOU ACCUSE FIRE?
the only "case" you had on him was his not voting Millar...

FoS:StrangerCoug

Uh, hello? Firestarter's mouth was not where his money was. Don't you dare generalize my cases!

From what I see at this point, Firestarter and millar13 might as well be bussing each other

Bussing each other day 1???? Why do you see the need to do that? This is you again trying to make both suspicious as if you liked to see one lynched today and the other tomorrow.

OK, first off, your implication that scum would not bus on Day 1 is WIFOM. I've done it as scum myself, although doing so in that particular game was very dangerous and a contributing factor to my loss.

Also, accusing two people of trying to bus each other ≠ lining up lynches.

Remember that I was voting millar13 before I switched to you. If I believe that my top two suspects are equally scummy, I will vote the person closer to getting lynched so my vote does not act as dead weight

So here you're excusing that you will vote the most likely to get lynched...

I thought it was clear that I had two suspects for most of this game. While millar13 has cleaned himself up, I do not see a good reason to give him a

tabula rasa

. Firestarter was going up on my scumdar, and I switched when my suspicions of both were pretty close to par with each other.

Most of what concerns me about millar13 is the early part of this game. You, on the other hand, have been responding very poorly to pressure lately

This attacking without examples... Why you think he responded bad under pressure? I think his defense post was pretty decent.

millar13 is guilty of making slips early in the game and tried to defend them by saying his fingers were broken, which I don't buy. Firestarter is guilty of several misrepresentations. For example, somehow in #159 he thinks that millar13 will be cleared in my mind if he gets lynched and flips town, which isn't true. (It will obviously be wrong that they were bussing, but the rest of my case on millar13 will remain valid.) In addition, he's also dodged my question about his opinion about a connection between Isacc and me by asking if I have anything to say about his case other than worry about myself (yeah, right—if you don't understand something, then asking about it is one of the most pro-town things you can do), and most recently he's been giving confusing signals as to whether or not he really wants to stay in this game.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Could you delete the closing quote tag before "WHY???? WHY DO YOU ACCUSE FIRE?" in my previous post please?[/color]

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP:

Mod: Could you delete the closing quote tag before "WHY???? WHY DO YOU ACCUSE FIRE?" in my previous post please?

Done. Also, looking for a replacment for Ghost Writer now in addition to Rage.

[Lindisfarne]

Sajin:

@Lindisfarne

1: The first part of your post is a WIFOM argument. Scum could think you would think that and thus adjust their actions/reactions accordingly.

Play mafia more, you'll realize that all interpretations of actions in this game lead to WIFOM one way or another.

It's bad form to flat out say "that's WIFOM" as a defense, or as an attack on something. Guess what, in some roundabout way, everything can be looked at as WIFOM, every action in some respect.

It's all about odds. What is more LIKELY to happen. To me, what I outlined is what I feel is most likely to happen. I've weighed the odds and that's my logic. Just saying it's WIFOM doesn't do crap for an argument, try to refute it with better logic.

But in the end, it's just my assumption. you're totally free to interpret actions how you want.

1:My other quote that this refers to is referring to the possibility of them being either scum or town. Its not useless depends on meta, but I have no idea what the meta of this game would be. But it was a meta argument to counter a meta argument. Neither is that useful to this actual game.

I'm not following what you're trying to say here. Please clarify. (I just got off of a night shift, so my mind isn't working it's best, bear with me.)

3: His flip gives us more information regardless of what direction the flip is. Obviously it would help more if he is indeed scum.

2: The information gained would be the insight into his posts. Because he posted a lot I referred to a lot of information. Knowing the alignment behind 75 posts or whatever he is up to now in the thread adds up to a lot of stuff that can be dug through.

BS. Be specific, since I don't believe this. What posts will reveal information to you depending on his flip? All I see is him attacking miller, and whoever attacked him. How does that reveal a "lot of information". So far this game fire has been mostly lashing back at people like a cornered dog (no offense). If you want to lynch someone for information, d1 is normally not the day to do it.

4: It is not D2, it is D1. I will probably post a list on D2. If not then, D3 for sure. I think we have a decent first day lynch. But giving more info to the scum lets them setup better for the next day. I am not going to example this because no mafia game thread should ever have decent scum tactics posted in it. However right now I think we have a lynch and I would rather us post all the information we have tomorrow. Posting it right now would setup better night actions for scum.

4 "next": So your saying a list of scum does not provide a list of who you think is town as well?


Alex. Don't assume scum wont bus each other. I did from d1 in a game, and when my buddy died on d2, I was in the clear. I single handedly won that game (although it wasn't pretty, I basically verbally abused a townie into self voting at lylo, and they then quit mafiascum. Mr. Flay said it might have been unethical, but still totally legal. I'm a bit too ruthless in how I play mafia sometimes)

Also, you're defending fire something fierce. Hell, I don't think he's scum, but im not going to stand up and act like a big brother, attacking who pointed fingers at him. You seem to have beef with coug, which is interesting to note. And you're earlier meta on him, about replacing him, although I can try to appreciate from a psychological perspective at least, is weak.

*side note: awesome to see more replacements, this place should take off with discussion soon, which will make me happy.*

Yeah. I replaced you as scum therefore I know a bit of your thoughts processes. And maybe that would lead you to think I'm gonna suspect you. Anyway, I don't think I'm gonna pull meta on you. I should study more cases were you're town first.

DONT DARE HAMMER!!!

If you do... I'll pursue you tomorrow till you're lynched...

Fosing me for the first thing I write? Is it because you know I've seen you as scum and think I may tunnelvision you or something?

...Anyone else have a problem with this stuff? He has some crazy meta and tunnelvision on coug, and gives one of the biggest anti-town threats I've seen in awhile.

/will be continued after I wake up, since my work schedule balances out finally tomorrow. I post once a day with my crappy schedule, and each post takes a good deal of time, and its normally when im running on very little sleep, so I have to cut it short sometimes, my apologies.

[Sajin]

@Lin:
1-Yes lots (not all, but lots) are WIFOM arguements. But clearly I perfer the other glass of wine in this case. Your clearly judgemental on my join date. Do you bow down in homage of 2004 players?

2-3: I can't tell you what information until the flip occurs. The lot strictly refers to him having a lot of posts in the thread which sheds more light on possible information because we now know the true alignment of more posts in the thread. If you don't consider this as information then you must know firestarter's alignment.

4- I do not see a response.


@ alex - your one question to me

See last post and this one (questions 2-3).


@SC- Referencing all those scum tactics is scummy in my opinion. Purely because doing so casts doubt rather than digs up any information. I do not have a problem with your case arguments at this time.

[alexhans]

Good morning.

...Anyone else have a problem with this stuff? He has some crazy meta and tunnelvision on coug, and gives one of the biggest anti-town threats I've seen in awhile.

Wrong. I'm suspicious of a lot of things. Don't worry about me being anti town, is just that I came to the game asked people not to hammer while I was reading and started doubting SC's motives to make both Fire and millar but push the more popular lynch... Before I could even post my thoughts he had already fosed me... ??? What's that? He could ask me a question, but maybe he needed that fos to make me suspicious...
I don't think they case on fire is as clear as a lot of people pretend. I don't like Isaac's vote at all, nor I like battou's attitude of wanting to move on... Usually when there are replacements people don't say let's get this going, They've had enough time, hammer, hammer.

If Fire is town I want his lynch to have been thoroughly discussed before it's done. Otherwise tomorrow everyone will wash their hands and point at millar.

Uh, hello? Firestarter's mouth was not where his money was

Nor was millars... he was fosing everybody.

OK, first off, your implication that scum would not bus on Day 1 is WIFOM. I've done it as scum myself, although doing so in that particular game was very dangerous and a contributing factor to my loss.

Also, accusing two people of trying to bus each other ≠ lining up lynches.

OK. But what did you the impression of bussing?

@Lindis: I'm not gonna rule out one if the other flips scum. It's just that I don't like the isolated suggestion that they might be bussing and nothing else. That looks like adding more baseless suspicion to the game.
I'm defending fire fierce because I've followed the game and thought: What the hell? How is fire taking more heat (lol) than millar if millar was much more full of inconsistencies? Why everything else is pretty much ignored? I ask people not to hammer because I'm catching up and I get fosed and then a vote to L-1 comes up. I wanna play before DAy 1 ends or I'll get nothing for tomorrow. In no way I'm pinning SC as scum or anything, I just don't like a lot of the things he did and definetly want explanations.

I thought I was going to enter a game with some kind of choice but you're all pretty much set on fire. I want to find out for myself, and from what I've seen until now. I'm not convinced, at all.

@Sajin:Then why not millar for example? He has a lot of posts too.

Referencing all those scum tactics is scummy in my opinion. Purely because doing so casts doubt rather than digs up any information.

This is what I've been trying to say.

[Gorrad]

Now seeking replacements for:
Rage
Ghost Writer
Afatchic

[alexhans]

Now seeking replacements for:
Rage
Ghost Writer
Afatchic

wha-a-a-a-t? 3 people must be replaced? (and there is already 2 replacements...)
That sucks.

By the way... Post coming in soon.

[millar13]

alexhans:
Nor was millars... he was fosing everybody.

FOS everybody?

Where exactly. Either quote them ALL or please leave

[alexhans]

alexhans:
Nor was millars... he was fosing everybody.

FOS everybody?

Where exactly. Either quote them ALL or please leave

Ok. you did not fos everybody, it was my impression for defending your non voting and saying you'd rather fos them. Just Battou and fire in succession.

Is that all you had to comment on? Nothing else called your attention?

[millar13]

The problem with that post is you went from EVERYONE to just two people. You didn't relate to why, and how it was changed. You over exaggerated and to make matters worse didn't actually bother to quote, which mean you already knew you were trying to make it sound more than it actually was. It might seem like a null-tell, but after a while enough null tells form a foundational base for a scum member.

Also:

Alexshans:
If Fire is town I want his lynch to have been thoroughly discussed before it's done. Otherwise tomorrow everyone will wash their hands and point at millar.

What makes you assume that if Fire comes up town, that I am necessarily proven scum. If he somehow flips town, it is down to his scumlike play rather than being my fault that I noticed he was scum. People like yourself are almost sounding like you ALREADY know Fire is town, and therefore want a wagon to form as soon as possible.

Strangecoug is the only person with logic, as in many ways his idea of me and Firestarting bussing is the only point that actually sounds like it has any solid meaning to it. It doesn't have to neccersary be right, to have strength to it.

[alexhans]

WARNING: LONG POST

If you die and flip town, there will still be stuff that I can get on millar13 for.

Apparently, Sajin defines bussing a little more strictly than I do. I think your case on

Firestarter is great, and I believe most of it, but you're doing things yourself that's setting

off alarms. That's all I think I need for a bussing accusation—you can be the first person to

vote somebody and still be bussing that person. [/quote]
I don't understand how do you reach the conclusion that if millar is scummy he could be bussing.

Maybe he is scum and he is buddying, maybe he is town and he is right about fire, maybe not.


@korlash: I don't like your attitude regarding the tactics issue. You defended millar for

saying battou applied tactics but pretty much said that anything applied as a tactic. So there

is no reason for millar to vote battou.

Also. I don't like the interpretations of

170 expresses a lot of the motives why I'm not liking the Fire waggon. He makes sense IMO.

He states he's still 50/50 on me, wouldn't town be 50/50 on anyone in game,

especially after just coming out of the random stage? He then looks at lurkers, saying that scum

may be contained within them, why not place a vote on one them to get them to post?

This is stretch. Things have happened and he logically suspects some more than others. The not

voting lurkers is just gameplay. And he said that he was careful with his votes. Maybe a Fos

would be more consistent but it's really his choice.

@SC: I would appreciate more your bussing theory if you had pointed out that it has to do with

millar's "scum partner" mistake. That might be an innocent mistake, but might not. This is not

to be dismissed as lightly as you did.

look at 170. I think

it raises pretty good questions. For example the fact that millar had said fire was bad townie

like and rapidly reverted to scum. Then, another thing I don't like about SC is that he

practically stopped pursuing millar with questions since millar said that he was townie.
[quote="fire]So if you wrote, "Im scum", and you came back half an hour later and told us it was

a mistake, it should have read "Im town".. that were to allow you this based on the fact you've

2 broken fingers???[/quote]lol. This is going in my wiki quotes.
The way in wich millar set on fire is strange and the way in wich he tried to prove his case by

saying others agreed with him strikes me as he thinking that he didn't have a good enough case.

Besides from the vote-hopping and saying that Isaac was a scumm buddy.

I don't know how to respond with out screaming, but this doesn't actually

completely some up as an actual case. You have actually based a large amount of your anaysis on

your own opinion and also what you seem to believe IS FACT. It is almost as if you believe you

know what everyone is thinking and you know exactly what they are planning to do.

This applies to you too millar.

When you make a case, you actually have to have some sort of actual case with

some hard case and evidents and not just PERSONAL OPINION.

Ok MasterMafia... Did your case had hard case and evidents? Wasn't it also YOUR

personal opinion?
172 doesn't answer or refute 170 AT ALL! It just dismisses it as bad posting and inveting... I

DONT LIKE THIS.

I admit I have come to point, where I don't see how Firestarter can stay and the

game can progress at the same time.

Wow. Calling for a lynch without answering his post

?
175: Come on people!

look at this!!! It's him avoiding fire and dismissing him. He seems to be confortable with his

position and trying to get him quick lynched.
176: Still keeps at the same thing.
I feel like he has transformed into Zwets.

Good Point, a town player would feel the need to concentrate on just one player

if another one was given him a lot of grief as well.

So who are you investigating

besides fire?

Gotta love the reactions from the 3 of you...
Instead of analysing the case, you come on here and try and verbally beat me up...

I feel the same way.
-battou was the first to address fire's case without just attacking him but logically trying to

discuss.

From what I have read of Millar's posts, he feels D1 bandwagons are usually

controlled by scum since there is so little information to go on.

@millar: do you? What about the Fire waggon?

I am pretty sure, that town do self-vote sometimes. I have done it once, and if

my hunch is correct Korlash who is doing it could very well be on the side of the town as well.

Millar. There's a game where you were town and someone self voted and you told them

that it was scummy and voted for them contradicting this and your view that scum want's to get

out of RVS.

Battousai you post is valued, as personally I don't think I can attempt to

really justify firestarters claims on me...he just wants his cake and wants to eat is also. An

indirect post, was far more useful

How is this post useful? It's you spamming the thread to make fire more suspicious by baseless

repetition.

I've only known scum players to try and make a game serious A.S.A.P
so doing so was a scum tell

Its clearly says that I thought the action was a SCUM-TELL...it doesn't actually mention me

calling anyone scummy. You have to realize that is two very different things. [/quot€]
I don't know how everybody else reads this buy I read it as if it you were saying that it WAS a

scum tell, therefore the person doing it is scummy. How can one drop scum tells but not be

scummy? Maybe if they were null tells.

I have you on 60/40 and once again you remain to LIVE IN THE PAST

What does this mean? Live in the past? That he uses what has happened until now? We all must

live int the past because the past is where we made our actions and we have to answer for them.

Instead of analyzing the case? I'm not interested in your case on Millar, as I am not Millar and I am perfectly capable of analyzing him myself. I am interested in you responding to my case on you which you consistently ignore, even now!

You are my number 1 suspect, and at almost L-1. Any case you make attacking another person filters through the "scum trying to shift his lynch" alarm at this point. Your case on Millar may be useful later, if you flip town, however right now there is no logical reason for me to analyze your wall-o-text Millar cases.

Ok. Isaac is right about asking Fire to answer but he SHOULD read the cases on other players because all info help. You can't tunnel vision so much. Plus, you're only gonna pay attention to the millar case if fire flips town? So you can go for millar? That's why you don't wanna talk about it now? So you don't defend him and later try to use the same posts to lynch him?

Frankly, you aren't in any position to be making attacks, we all know you are suspicious of the people making strong attacks on you. Right now, you should be focused on answering my questions and/or defending yourself.

Basically you're saying: Don't scumhunt. Defend yourself till we finally lynch you.

The fact that another person agrees with me says it all really

Trying to prove yourself with Argument ad Populum yet again. What if they're scum and it's part of an agenda?

Stupid acting like an idiot with posts like this

"Funny guy, no.. really ya are Wink"

What about:

Typing the wrong word is a scum-tell.
Well lah dee dah...I must be scum then.

That wasn't abuse, I was just stating what you are doing...playing like an idiotic because your reasoning is idiotic. If i were to call you a mofo that would be abuse.

I think you're wrong. I feel he has played better than you. I think you've got no right to tell him he is playing like an idiotic (If both of you are town, if you're scum it could be part of your strategy).

I do want to get a quick word in before I start my grueling process of trying to take this all in... Is Fire at L-2? has anyone asked him to claim or has a claim at all been covered? Did he claim already?

mmm... Fishing for a role? What do you guess his role is?

Firestarter:-

Your Tunnel vision is handicapping you......IRONY!

Isacc you need to calm down...IRONY!


Also I think this is a freudian slip:- "BTW, Town need to read these posts. End of. "

Why not fellow townies...you addressed the town once again as if you are a separate organism

Oh god! you say nothing and then try to pull a freudian slip like a wizard pulling a bunny from a hat... er... that didn't came out right...
Whatever, this is you pushing his lynch and manufacturing additional evidence. Usually scum will be more careful to say: We, the town, need to... us townies, I am a town, etc, etc. Town players may not pay that much attention to this.

urgh... to many CAPS in this game. Too much trying to out-shout the other player.

Firestarter- Why don't you do a simple name claim? That way if you have a power-role or a vanilla townie role, it won't be obvious.

I don't follow. What's your idea here?

mmm... have you all noticed that the only thing being discussed is fire's case? How's that good for town?

I second the name claim idea firestarter

What are your reasons behind this?

Firestarter, you need to work on reading comprehension.

This type of attacks annoy me and drive new players away from the site because they feel insulted. You can avoid it Isaac and still make a good case.

Firestarter: Time for a claim. You're at L-2, someone else said earlier they were considering putting you at L-1. Claim, because you are only digging yourself deeper by talking.

Again, Why? Why should he claim?

I said, I am not going to post an entire analysis of your case on Millar. I do not need to debate an entire Millar case, mainly because I don't feel super suspicious of him yet.

Oh! but if you don't investigate his case on millar you can't see if millar is right about him or not. It may be VERY SIGNIFICANT. If he is manufacturing a case then he is probably scum, if he is making a good case then he millar's case would be suffer.

I'm not vivian kudo.

Name claims don't actually mean anything to be honest, and this has somehow taken the pressure off completely as we gone off topic.

Suddenly, something doesn't help you and you quickly dismiss it?

Also I don't like the idea of name claim, the fact that the action was done by you Battousai has actually totally throw me off balance as what to think.

What do you mean?

Well, here's what can be analyzed from the name.

Being the mother of the main guy, the name is probably attached to a town player.

However, being a show featuring

many

characters, it would not be hard for a scum to find a pro-town sounding name.

Also, seeing as she does not appear till episode 43, a part of me doubts the likelihood that the character would appear in this game.

All of this said: I am for a full role claim, before we get to any lynch.

well... looks like Isaac was pretty much set on fire...

Saying your vanilla townie is this game, is like you have brown hair. It doesn't actually mean anything.

However, if you are a vanilla townie then you are the worst example and most scummy one I have ever...and I mean EVER come across

I disagree. Maybe you'll realize at endgame when you find out who is scum (possibly in that waggon).

Also, don't you think the mod may have randomly assigned role to name? Quite often names give end up as red herrings.

Never tired of pushing.

Since Firestarter claimed Vanilla, it would be best just to lynch him. If he is town, then the scum know he is not a powerrole, which then give them a better chance of hitting one.

While we wait, I think we should play the rest of today under the assumption we lynch Firestarter and he turned up vanilla townie. I will post tomorrow as it is getting late and I gotta get up early for my first class tomorrow.

While I would prefer another lynch I can understand your reasons and find you to be a decent player. I don't know why you want to get the game going with your last L-1 vote (after I asked you not to) when we need so much replacements.
@korlash: When you asked for flavour in the claim... what do you mean? You now he can't quote the mod right?.

Am I wrong or he isn't allowed to quote or fake quote the role pm?
243: WOW! here millar tries to blame Fire with the same argument he dismissed when used against him... Battou noted this.

That makes no sense...so my vote is standing on you currently and yet you expect me to backdown and distance myself from you.

How you think these posts are not helping me I do not know.

You're not adding things to your case. Just attacking him. Yes, it is helping you get your lynch but I'm not sure if it's helping the town.

Its not that its is the spelling that I have an issue with, its the fact I don't believe his name claim is true.

riiiight...

Considering its is spelt:

-KAFUFFLE
-it is APPARENTLY

and the fact that the language is broken in places, I am willing to say that you used a minor characters name (who was a protagonist) and made up the role PM as well.

To be honest I am at a cross roads.

1) The previous case and the reasons I thought he was scum are still strong in my decision

2) This claim and what has followed is now actually making me think that actually their is a chance that he might have actually been telling the truth and he is town. (This would not excuse his scummy nature though)

Well. This makes YOU look more town IMO. Admitting you're not sure.

I don't buy Firestarter, but the name claim has nothing to do with it. I agree that he shouldn't talk about it like there's nothing else to talk about, though. "I'm so and so, and I do such and such" would have be enough for me.

If you thought he should talk about something else... Why not tell him what? Why not asking questions?

If anything, SC suspects me more than you because he has had his vote and suspicions on me for much longer

Then why is he voting Fire?

We are at least two weeks off the end of the Day, and I don't see any need to rush in.

We need to lynch Firestarter...... he claimed vanilla.

Why the rush? The only ones that have been in the spotlight are millar and Fire... 4 others with low or null activity... Do you think it's good to have nothing to go on Day 2?

QFT.

Same question.

You have accused me of certain things specifically (we know what they are), yet Sajin is scummier than me based on gut. This is making absolutely no sense to me.

This is true...
@Fire: how did you think it was helpful to post a gut call without a single reason?

I agree with the discrepancies and wifom part, but lynching him for claiming vanilla is stupid. I admit his claim doesn't help but it's hardly a 'main point'...

While I don't like mislynching I think that battou's point of better lynching a vanilla than another player and knowing that Fire won't be killed tonight is not a good idea.

3 Pages to go!

[StrangerCoug]

OK. But what did you the impression of bussing?

Both have made cases against each other and both are scummy.

Now seeking replacements for:
Rage
Ghost Writer
Afatchic

wha-a-a-a-t? 3 people must be replaced? (and there is already 2 replacements...)
That sucks.

I had to find seven replacements for Mini 716, all on Day 1. (What's ironic is that the game lasted a month, which is short by MS standards.)

The problem with that post is you went from EVERYONE to just two people. You didn't relate to why, and how it was changed. You over exaggerated and to make matters worse didn't actually bother to quote, which mean you already knew you were trying to make it sound more than it actually was. It might seem like a null-tell, but after a while enough null tells form a foundational base for a scum member.

That's a very good case against alexhans there

I don't understand how do you reach the conclusion that if millar is scummy he could be bussing.

It is impossible to bus as town, for starters.

Maybe he is scum and he is buddying,

"Buddying"? I define that as defending a player in a scummy manner, and I don't see where millar13 and Firestarter have defended each other all game.

I don't buy Firestarter, but the name claim has nothing to do with it. I agree that he shouldn't talk about it like there's nothing else to talk about, though. "I'm so and so, and I do such and such" would have be enough for me.

If you thought he should talk about something else... Why not tell him what?

Telling Firestarter what exactly to talk about is not my job. If he's smart, he'll come up with something worth discussing on his own.

Why not asking questions?

I've BEEN asking questions.

[alexhans]

First I'll adresss the last posts.

The problem with that post is you went from EVERYONE to just two people. You didn't relate to why, and how it was changed. You over exaggerated

and to make matters worse didn't actually bother to quote, which mean you already knew you were trying to make it sound more than it actually was

. It might seem like a null-tell, but after a

while enough null tells form a foundational base for a scum member

.

I thought you had fosed more people. I was wrong.

What makes you assume that if Fire comes up town, that I am necessarily proven scum. If he somehow flips town, it is down to his scumlike play rather than being my fault that I noticed he was scum. People like yourself are almost sounding like you ALREADY know Fire is town, and therefore want a wagon to form as soon as possible.

... *sigh* look, I'll keep it simple:
You and Fire are the only ones who have been in the spotlight. If fire is not scum (wich I don't think right now) tomorrow there won't probably be much to go on. I'm foresseing that scum will try to make you be in the spotlight again because of your case on fire. The other people in the waggon agreed with you but didn't post so big cases. SC and Isaac especially.
You seriously think Fire is scum? I don't. I haven't been involved on the emotional battle that has been going on. I'm a bit colder. I don't find him scummy enough.
God. Already assuming things? I looked up at your ISO to count how many people you had fosed... I thought it was more and was surprised when it was only Battou and Fire. You talked a lot about foses though.
After a while a lot of null tells are scummy??? What is that? Have I commited a lot of null tells in your opinion?

Strangecoug is the only person with logic, as in many ways his idea of me and Firestarting bussing is the only point that actually sounds like it has any solid meaning to it. It doesn't have to neccersary be right, to have strength to it.

SC seems to be the only person with logic? He's been acting like buddying you and has tunnel visioned hard on Fire since it seemed the majority wanted that...

That's a very good case against alexhans there

Why I don't find him agreeing with millar surprising if it involves making his only attacker scummy? 1) he befriends millar 2) he attacks me 3) he doesn't state reasons.

"Buddying"? I define that as defending a player in a scummy manner, and I don't see where millar13 and Firestarter have defended each other all game.

I meant that any of them can be S/s, t/t or s/t... I don't see how would you think one is more likely than the other

I've BEEN asking questions.

at the beginning at millar. yes.
Then only to Fire until he was sure of being lynched.
When I replaced. You fosed me.
When I said I was wary of you. Then you started asking ME questions and trying to make me look scummy.
@SC: I still don't follow your logic of bussing... You said it more than once throughout the game... Why not just say that one being scum doesn't rule the other out? Why repeatedly say they might be bussing?

HOLE READ DONE LAST LONG POST

(relief for many)

What is the difference between spending 2 extra weeks on Day 1 or spending those 2 weeks in D2?

that you might get 4 weeks of gameplay instead of 2...

If you seriously think I would spend 2 weeks helping out town, as scum, you are seriously deluded.

I agree. Scum would prefer a lynch now than later if that is definite.

If no-one thinks that leaving me alive until D1 expires, fair enough.

I may have come late but... HELLO!

I disagree. A vote is not sacred. Expect to see me put votes around often. Its all a part of the pressure game. I actually find it slightly scummy when people rarely vote at all, especially in the face of good evidence (granted, that is subjective). I find it akin to lurking, its like sitting on the sidelines.

mmm... I don't know. Sometimes it's scum but sometimes it may be indecition.

We're all adults here, but I still think I should say, this is only a game folks. Lets try not to rip each other apart when we play.

QFT.

Stranger and isacc basically sit back and give millar a pat on the back and say he's doing a good job so far.

This worries me a lot.

I dislike seeing people try to figure info from just the name. That assumes the mod isn't competent to prevent his game from being broken. I advise against it.

What would you say if someone suggested a name massclaim?
I liked your analysis of townie lynching or not. I'm not sure if it's right given all the possible WIFOM that will happen (regarding Fire) tomorrow if we mislynch today.

There's so much spotlight on fire and millar this whole game, it would be easy for scum to just be quiet and let the day pan out.

QFT.
Good idea with the not millar/fire question.

And claiming who we think is town and who is not here lets scum set up day 2 better. We already have a decent lynch.

SO YOU REFUSE TO ANSWER THE QUESTION? YOu think you suspecting scum and being killed later is an obvious procedure for scum?
@krolash: same question. Everything can and will be manufactured and WIFOMeD by scum... So what? We should shut up?

Ok, fire and stranger riding millar was working. he was breaking, but you guys took it a bit far. You were nitpicking over really inane things, like his wording.

I'm sorry, but it takes more than "you're overdoing this" to get me to relax the pressure.

In fact, I know SC to be agressive with his victim. SO it's consistent with his play (town or scum).

Firestarter seems not to care about being lynched, which to me is tantamount to resignation from the game, yet he's still pushing millar13 and me. I'm confused as to whether he really wants to continue playing.

Dismissing him as not wanting to play? I'm having very bad vibes about you Coug (SC)...You shouldn't have to nullify him if he attacks you. You should refute his logic.

It seems that most are happy to not say anything until Im lynched, therefore minimising the chance they'll come across scummy.

QFT.

He's fine with being lynched and is asking for more time to waste

How is the time wasted?

Actually, Firestarter's resignation towards being lynched makes him seem more townie to me. Why?

If he was scum, he I can see acting resigned and acceptant to being lynched as a gambit, and indeed, firestarter did just that back when he was at l-4 (I believe it was l-4 at that point).

QFT.

As a side note, I think it's scummy how quickly you people want to end this day. Rushing a day only leads to mistakes being made, and bad judgment calls. But of course, that's all a matter of opinion.

I agree with you.

[StrangerCoug]

That's a very good case against alexhans there

Why I don't find him agreeing with millar surprising if it involves making his only attacker scummy? 1) he befriends millar 2) he attacks me 3) he doesn't state reasons.

The standout here is that two people ≠ everybody.

"Buddying"? I define that as defending a player in a scummy manner, and I don't see where millar13 and Firestarter have defended each other all game.

I meant that any of them can be S/s, t/t or s/t... I don't see how would you think one is more likely than the other

I am not here to explain the same thing 10,000 times. I have already talked why I believe both of them to be scum, and anybody paying attention to this game knows that the two have been presenting cases against and are voting each other. Some of the cases the one has made against the other are actually decent.

I've BEEN asking questions.

at the beginning at millar. yes.
Then only to Fire until he was sure of being lynched.[/quote]
I'm sorry. Is this supposed to be the Spanish Inquisition? I may not have put any suspicions about Firestarter in the form of a question lately, but what I don't like about him after I stopped asking questions is clear—does he really want to play or not? If he doesn't want to play, then I'm fine with him lynched; in fact, I told him to self-hammer if that's the case. If he DOES want to play, though, then he needs to wake up and do some decent scumhunting, not just sling mud every which way he pleases.

When I replaced. You fosed me.
When I said I was wary of you. Then you started asking ME questions and trying to make me look scummy.

If that's the way we're going, then why aren't you chewing millar13's head off for calling you out for blowing cases out of proportion?

@SC: I still don't follow your logic of bussing... You said it more than once throughout the game... Why not just say that one being scum doesn't rule the other out?

I thought I did so by denying that Firestarter flipping town would clear millar13 in my mind.

Firestarter seems not to care about being lynched, which to me is tantamount to resignation from the game, yet he's still pushing millar13 and me. I'm confused as to whether he really wants to continue playing.

Dismissing him as not wanting to play? I'm having very bad vibes about you Coug (SC)...You shouldn't have to nullify him if he attacks you. You should refute his logic.

Nice misrep. I said I was confused about whether he wanted to or not, not that he necessarily didn't want to. His not caring about getting lynched sends a signal that he doesn't want to continue; that he's still pushing anybody sends a signal that he does want to continue. Which is it? All I'm getting from him anymore is that he's trying to sow the seeds of discord.

[Korlash]

How is the time wasted?

Because he asked a really dumb question and then responded with a vague inane answer when i questioned him about it. Neither one of them shows me he plans on using the extra time in a useful manner.