Mini 746: Speed Dating - I've Had The Time Of My Life (Over)

[Kmd4390]

But I like making avatar bets. It's fun to see what people pick. Jath isn't very original though.

And, pretty much this:

I just don't see why she'd act so obviously scummy.

She'll come back and say, "X voted me right away. Y bandwagoned. Z defended. A did this. B did that. The scum are this, this, and that and we need to lynch them now.

Watch.

I thought this was what she was doing based on her normal playstyle. I saw no reason to think she was scum.

[molestargazer]

Now we really need to do this re-read, and to stop myself from putting if off any longer, I'll do it now.
Let's go from maybe Page 22, although a lot of this will be hampered by DGB.

She'll come back and say, "X voted me right away. Y bandwagoned. Z defended. A did this. B did that. The scum are this, this, and that and we need to lynch them now.

Watch.

That's what I'm thinking.
.....
I'm going to vote now too actually.
Vote:DGB
-I'm curious to see what DGB will say
-How caboose will react
-And whether the count will say anything at all.

Seems to be a bit of a contradiction there? Nightfall agreeing with Kmd that she might be scum, but going ahead to vote anyway?
Indeed, this was (I believe) the hammer vote. Strange, don't you think?

Wow... yeah... my Jester post doesn't seem so stupid now does it -_-'

Don't really like this either. Just seems as though he didn't really want to vote, and is now saying 'I told you so' to us.

And.. strangely enough.. that's all I can find of any value in these pages - either that, or I'm not reading properly.
So, for now,

Vote: Nightfall

[Max]

Jahudo had replaced Jebus

[Jahudo]

Hi, I'll be back after I'm done reading.

[Nightfall]

Now we really need to do this re-read, and to stop myself from putting if off any longer, I'll do it now.
Let's go from maybe Page 22, although a lot of this will be hampered by DGB.

She'll come back and say, "X voted me right away. Y bandwagoned. Z defended. A did this. B did that. The scum are this, this, and that and we need to lynch them now.

Watch.

That's what I'm thinking.
.....
I'm going to vote now too actually.
Vote:DGB
-I'm curious to see what DGB will say
-How caboose will react
-And whether the count will say anything at all.

Seems to be a bit of a contradiction there? Nightfall agreeing with Kmd that she might be scum, but going ahead to vote anyway?
Indeed, this was (I believe) the hammer vote. Strange, don't you think?

Wow... yeah... my Jester post doesn't seem so stupid now does it -_-'

Don't really like this either. Just seems as though he didn't really want to vote, and is now saying 'I told you so' to us.

And.. strangely enough.. that's all I can find of any value in these pages - either that, or I'm not reading properly.
So, for now,

Vote: Nightfall

I thought I made it clear that I wasn't sure if DGB was scum or not but would add my vote because of how she was acting. I also wanted to get to her reaction of how people acted (As KMD thought there would be), and I wanted to see what some others would say too. I think DGB hammered herself BTW. And that second post of mine WAS somewhat of an I told you so post. I had said that she seemed a bit too eager to be lynched, and received a fair bit of heat from Caboose for it. I made that post to point out that maybe he shouldn't have been so quick to judge me...

[Jahudo]

Ok I'm done reading. I'll return later with who I think is scum.

In the case of DGB I agree with KMD about her meta. She can act scummy on purpose to manipulate the game and cause confusion.

I understand the position of the people that voted for her because a jester is not considered a normal role and should not fall into the category of things we need to be worried about unless a jester possibility is stated explicitly in the OP (it wasn't was it? I don't see it there now).

[The Countess]

Ok Ive read to. I disliked molestargazer for what I viewed as sitting on the fence attitude early day 1. However that has now been changed to monkeyman who I feel has been scummy throughout day 2. I need more of a case than "my gut". However for the moment I think mm is scum and will be voting him in due course.

[Nightfall]

Ok I'm done reading. I'll return later with who I think is scum.

In the case of DGB I agree with KMD about her meta. She can act scummy on purpose to manipulate the game and cause confusion.

I understand the position of the people that voted for her because a jester is not considered a normal role and should not fall into the category of things we need to be worried about unless a jester possibility is stated explicitly in the OP (it wasn't was it? I don't see it there now).

It wasn't posted in the OP (Not that I know of at least).
Caboose found this later on though.

Oh, crap.

Speed Dating Mafia

Ah, it's Valentine's day, you see a lonely woman reading her copy of a 'Mills and Boon', you thank god that at least you have the looks to get you a date. Even if it is by speed-dating...

12 Hours Later
You arrive at the speed dating centre, you learn that several people there are already married, you don't know which but you remember seeing their "Million Pound Wedding" in the news paper. This means that you'll have to dismiss table by table, as they find true love or a good shag

Town Win Condition: You win if you leave with another town person and the people who are cheating on their lovers leave without love

Mafia Win Condition: You win if you leave with a towns person you lose if you leave with another mafia member or leave without love

Possible Third Party Win Condition: You are destined to be with X if they leave without you you commit suicide. If they leave with you, you will get married have 3 children, buy a house when the market recovers. Well you win.

Another Possible Win Condition: You feel sorry for these people, so much so you think they all deserve to die. You win if every table but the one your on dies.

I hope it isn't DGB's win con to leave with the Count.

[Caboose]

I thought this was what she was doing based on her normal playstyle. I saw no reason to think she was scum.

How about the fakeclaim?
Was that scummy to you or not?
If not, why not?

[don_johnson]

fakeclaim= scummy. almost always does.

[Jahudo]

Re: Caboose’s post 592
I’m confused because it sounds like there are individual win conditions as well as team win conditions for both factions. Town don’t want to leave with scum and scum don’t want to leave with each other.

Since the mafia flavor is “married people” it would make sense that there are either 2 or 4 mafia members, but since we have already seen a third party role, I’m guessing we have 2. So if one mafia member goes home with town, the other will too unless we have a power role that can do something about it (vig? Ressurector?).

Now on to my suspicions.
First molestar…

molestar

I've had a thought niggling away at me for a while. This might be complete crap, if it is, someone please correct me.

What if there ARE no nightkills?

This post bothers me because roffman suggested this same theory only 12 posts before you. And you commented on another issue only 2 posts after his post. This tells me you were more concerned with what you had to say than what others had to say, and you wrote post 270 without reading everything up to that point.

@molestar: Why didn’t you see roff’s theory? Did you read any of his post 268 before you made post 280?

Caboose - your case against Jebus is quite a good one.

You don’t mention any specifics, which could have allowed you to back away from points that don’t hold strong or hang on points that did. What about his case did you like?

Now KMD….

KMD

I’m more confused than suspicious of your false hammer on Zwet.
Post 160 you said you had confused this game’s mechanics with another game where you “voted WITH people at our tables”.

@KMD: If you thought you had to vote with your tablemate, then did you believe that by voting Zwet you were forcing roffman to vote Zwet too? If so, why didn’t you ask for an OK from roffman before placing a hammer.

Post 150 you thought you were in twilight and asked for people to take full advantage of the remaining time by discussing zwet’s slip and your hammer. If you still wanted to discuss these things, why did you try to end the day right then?

Next is Caboose…

Caboose

zwet, make your list I'm dropping the hammer.
EGL's doc claim looks fishy looking at roffman's point about NKs + Kmd's info.

That was the first time you stated that you agreed with the wagon or expressed any wish to join it. Prior to that post you had disagreed with the wagon and the people pushing it.

@Caboose: Was your decision entirely based on roffman’s speculation about no night kills and KMD’s vague hint? How much did you believe these things were true?

Jebus is still scummy. A bandwagon would be nice here (notice, NOT a lynch yet).

If you wanted a bandwagon, why didn’t you vote?

Jebus doesn't waste anytime flinging the bullcrap at Kmd for hammering someone that Jebus knows will flip town.

This statement cannot be proven or defended. Also, on your closest post after KMD’s “hammer” you suspected people on Zwet’s hammer and called the wagon “horsehockey”. The only difference I can make out of the posts is that Jebus pressured KMD with questions and Caboose made a vague blanket suspicion without pushing it. To me, Caboose’s post looks worse.

However, I find it very difficult to defend myself against such crap attacks vague statements as you have made and it would be much appreciated if you could give some reasoning so that we may clear up some misunderstanding.

Post 353 was overly dramatic and unnecessary. I also felt that this snippit was hypocritical coming from Caboose who made vague accusations like post 195:

FoS: Jebus
Your "case" on zwet consists of nothing but raw bullcrap.

How is it easier to defend against what you accused here than what BSG accused in post 349?

[Jahudo]

Finally MonkeyMan…

MonkeyMan

Background info…

Yeah, Zwet is still the scummiest out there, unless someone can give me a good reason why he's not. My vote stays.

Unvote: Zwet

Don't we should be lazy and lynch the doc just because his partner is scummy.

Before I thought Zwet was the scummiest, I still do, but after thinking about it we can always lynch him later. I like to think about things before acting, god forbid.

In these three posts you strongly believe Zwet is scum and are willing to lynch him. The only reason you unvote day 1 is apparently to save someone you thought was doc (not confirmed at that time).

It was the doctor I didn't want to lynch, I didn't know we had a claimed cop.

@MonkeyMan: What do you mean claimed cop? Where did you get that idea?

Aren't I glad I didn't have anything to do with the lynch of two townies...

I am not scum. You should be looking at the people who were in on the double townie lynch yesterday.

I'm saying that people on the wagon should be considered first, and that people off the wagon should be given the benefit of the doubt, especially when accusers give no reasoning for their accusations.

You did not show a pro-town mindset after the mislynch, especially one that you pushed from the sidelines without committing to a lynch vote in the end. Mislynches happen, generally because the lynchee does something bad, and voters should not be condemned just for voting. A lynch is necessary in order to play this game and townies performing lynches are playing the game correctly.

Vote: KMD

You were obviously wrong about KMD being scum, so why should we believe you about you being town?

@MonkeyMan: Was this a serious vote? What reaction did you expect from question? It looks like a loaded question to me, one that is unanswerable.

Voting for two townies, and from what i understand, you hammered.

Why is voting for two townies a scumtell? Did you not think Zwet was scum? If you are not sure whether he hammered or not, you shouldn’t be pushing that as a point. If you didn’t fact check before you pushed a case on the offensive, you are inflated a case which is anti-town.

It wasn't well reasoned enough for me to be on board, so I'm not letting him off the hook.

Can you elaborate on this point. You explicitly said, day 1, that you would want to lynch Zwet eventually if not on day 1. Why are you suspecting people who were also suspicious of Zwet? What did you think of their theory that a doc would be NK’ed anyway?

I suggest we start looking at those who were in on the vote, especially towards the end, and those who might be behaving suspiciously(ie defending the vote).

Does post 248 fall into the category of behaving suspiciously(ie defending the vote)? Why or why not?

Currently I find MonkeyMan scummiest. I want to hear his defense before I vote him.

His tablemate is molestar, who looks slightly less suspicious than Caboose and maybe equally suspicious as The Countess right now. There isn’t much to say after the first incarnation of The Countess. She was a lurker and fluff poster that made jokes instead of actually contributing and she stayed on the Zwet wagon without reaffirmed any reason why. I want to get a read from this new The Countess before I can really conclude anything.

[Kmd4390]

I thought this was what she was doing based on her normal playstyle. I saw no reason to think she was scum.

How about the fakeclaim?
Was that scummy to you or not?
If not, why not?

No. It was so ridiculous and she gave up on it so quickly, that it seemed intentionally obiously fake. DGB, as scum, would not make an intentionally obvious fakeclaim.

I’m more confused than suspicious of your false hammer on Zwet.
Post 160 you said you had confused this game’s mechanics with another game where you “voted WITH people at our tables”.

@KMD: If you thought you had to vote with your tablemate, then did you believe that by voting Zwet you were forcing roffman to vote Zwet too? If so, why didn’t you ask for an OK from roffman before placing a hammer.

Yes. I thought roff and I shared a vote. I didn't ask for an ok because I was ready to vote. I don't normally ask for an ok before I vote, so I saw no reason to do so here.

Post 150 you thought you were in twilight and asked for people to take full advantage of the remaining time by discussing zwet’s slip and your hammer. If you still wanted to discuss these things, why did you try to end the day right then?

I was convinced he was scum and saw no reason to wait on lynching him. The same things would have been discussed Day 2 anyway, so discussing it in twilight wouldn't have hurt anything. When a mod allows discussion in twilight, I usually like to take advantage of that.

[Jahudo]

Yes. I thought roff and I shared a vote. I didn't ask for an ok because I was ready to vote. I don't normally ask for an ok before I vote, so I saw no reason to do so here.

Did you check any of the vote counts to see if partners were automatically added when their partner voted?

The previous vote count to your hammer was on page 4, post 83. There were 4 people that had 1 vote on them, which shouldn't be possible if partners voted together. Both BSG and The Count, who were paired up day 1, and EGL and Zwet, who were paired together, had votes on separate people, which wouldn't be possible if partners voted together.

So did you not read the vote count? What in particular made you think this game had shared voting mechanics?

[Kmd4390]

I was confused by another game. It's as simple as that.

I was in another game (which is ongoing) where for the day it was in at the time, we were paired with a "head" and shared a vote. In this game, we don't share votes at our table. So confusion with another game and nothing more. The vote count had nothing to do with it.

[molestargazer]

@molestar: Why didn’t you see roff’s theory? Did you read any of his post 268 before you made post 280?

Read the sodding avatar.
And I evidently didn't read the post properly, or I just missed it. It's not the first time I've done things like that. I can't say any more than that.

You don’t mention any specifics, which could have allowed you to back away from points that don’t hold strong or hang on points that did. What about his case did you like?

I have absolutely no idea, I've slept since then. Let's reread.
Judging from what I see, I agreed with his thoughts of backing away from the lynch shortly after he made a post summarising the case and putting pressure on.

[don_johnson]

i don't buy the shared vote/game mixup excuse. also, everyone seems to have dismissed the fake counterclaim? it didn't read so obvious a joke on my go through.

[Jahudo]

also, everyone seems to have dismissed the fake counterclaim? it didn't read so obvious a joke on my go through.

Where was this?

[Kmd4390]

Jahudo, here:

DGB you just claimed my role. I'm the Miller NK Immune Cop. I also can kill at any time, so if I were scum, I'd have won by now.

Really though DGB, I'm not scum in this game and you aren't a cop. Have you seen my case on The Count?

And I still need to catch up. That will probably happen tomorrow.

[Jahudo]

Yeah that's a joke. I've read the title fairy thread before. I think Oman says that?

[Kmd4390]

NK Immune Miller Vig is Oman's title.

DGB claimed NK Immune Miller Cop.

I changed it up to match Oman's title a little more.

[Nightfall]

I thought it was pretty clear that the "fake claim" was a joke.

Monkey - If you read this could you confirm that you are still around.

[Jahudo]

Mod can you prod Monkey Man? He hasn't posted in 10 days.

[Jahudo]

Ok Ive read to. I disliked molestargazer for what I viewed as sitting on the fence attitude early day 1. However that has now been changed to monkeyman who I feel has been scummy throughout day 2. I need more of a case than "my gut". However for the moment I think mm is scum and will be voting him in due course.

Countess, can you explain this more?

[Max]

MonkeyMan will be replaced and now the tables are going to be redistributed:

The Countess is with Nightfall
Caboose is with whoever replaces MonkeyMan
Molestargazer is with Jahudo
Don_Johnson is with Kmd