Newbie 774 - Spegezzironi: Game Over! TOWN WINS!

[SensFan]

My theory was that as they veered away after it was mentioned that they were following you, it could imply that they had been following you because you were both mafia but with someone suggesting even vaguely that that was what they were doing they've jumped away to try and hide the fact that you're both mafia. I've explained this three times now, maybe my logics bad, but I think it makes sense.

You're missing the point. Absolutely NOTHING in there has ANYTHING to do with me. Its all to do with L_C.

[cpe]

You're missing the point, it requires you to be scum for him to have been following you as a fellow scum. (I'm assuming the scum know who the other scum are at this point, am I mistaken?)

[SensFan]

You're missing the point, it requires you to be scum for him to have been following you as a fellow scum. (I'm assuming the scum know who the other scum are at this point, am I mistaken?)

And what makes you think L_CScum wouldn't follow SensTown?

Unvote, Vote: cpe

Your logic just doesn't make sense, and I have a hard time believing its actually genuine.

[cpe]

It was the sudden switch away after being pointed at, which made me think it may imply something about you.

Note,

might

, I just currently think I have more reason to be suspicious of L_C and you than of anyone else.

[cpe]

In fact, you're pronouncement that my logic doesn't make sense, to me implies that you're scum trying to hide... I think a vanilla would have accepted it whilst pleading innocence.

[SensFan]

It was the sudden switch away after being pointed at, which made me think it may imply something about you.

Note,

might

, I just currently think I have more reason to be suspicious of L_C and you than of anyone else.

You're still COMPLETELY missing the point.

There is absolutely NO case against me to be made from something that has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with me. Whether I am Scum, Town, Cult, SK, or even not fucking playing, it wouldn't stop/help L_C from following me.

[muzzz]

I've been going over Lamont's posts, and I'm seeing a lot wrong with them. What really set me of was the following exchange. I took the liberty of putting it in a more traditional form.

Do you find ckool5000 scummy for using random.org as a basis for a vote? You also said scum don't need to use random voting and should use a bandwagon vote instead. However you yourself joined a bandwagon. By your own reasoning, wouldn't ckool5000 be town for using random voting and

you

be scum for joining a bandwagon?

I consider my vote pro-village

Why do you consider that? You haven't explain your vote at all and you didn't answer Johoohno's question either.You have stated again that your vote is “pro-village” care to actually explain

why

?

My job is to find scum.

He basically answered with "I'm a townie", twice in a row. That's evading questions for sure, and possibly also an emotional appeal. Both are on my list of things that townies generally don't have good reasons for. Some of his other answers also seemed vague enough to be called evasive. I also don't like how he responds to votes by pointing at other people to lynch.

@cpe: SensFan is right. Your logic is flawed. You can show that Lamont was following SensFan. But you can't show that them being scum partners was the reason for that.

[muzzz]

Almost forgot:

Unvote

Part of me wants to vote Lamont. But that'd put him at L-1, and I'm not sure I want to do that just yet.

[ckool5000]

Lamont: He seems very scummy to me. I mean, just look at the post right above this one!

What makes his post scummy to

you

? Also you unvoted and yet found Lamont “very scummy” why not vote him?

Wow, Sotty... Thanks for making me feel like an idiot.

Nah, j/k. You're still town in my book. I don't really want to vote for Lamont right now though, putting him at L-1 is something that I really want to do because of his (lack of) logic, but... Anyone can just swoop in... I guess I just need more evidence.

Oh, and by the way, I never made a big deal out of random.org, I think it was Lamont or Rusty or someone else that made a big deal out of it...

So... Yeah, I guess I'll vote for... Let me think a little while longer.

[Rustythepirate]

I think cpe genuinely believed his logic, it certainly seems that way. Granted it was flawed and SensFan is not scummy for having someone follow him and veer away, but I don't think cpe is scummy for his point. Having flawed logic isn't a basis for a vote.

[ckool5000]

Hey! I just noticed Rusty replaced someone in the game I played before this one!.... Where I... Got lynched day one.

[cpe]

I still don't see the flaw in my logic, the idea I have is that L_C's actions suggest that he knows that SenFen is a fellow scum.

If the consensus is that my logic is flawed I will let it drop. My vote will remain on L_C as I don't have any significant ideas beyond the logic I've presented, which if wrong in the way being implied leaves me no suspects other than perhaps L_C.

If my logic is as flawed as you all think, perhaps I'd be a good target for first lynch even if I am a townie, as if my logic is all bad I won't be that much help later on, and so, better to lose me than to lose someone more intelligent than me.

[Rustythepirate]

Your logic is flawed. But don't get dramatic and give up by advocating your lynch, that is

not

good for the town as it eliminates the possibility of lynching scum. Don't appeal to emotion, many (including me) see it as a scum-tell.

[muzzz]

You got one thing wrong. Everybody does, now and then. Don't let it get to you.

All we know is that Lamont changed his vote after being accused of following someone. The simplest explanation is that he didn't want to be considered following anybody. There's a sort of theory, called Occam's Razor, that says that the simplest explanation is often the most likely. In other words, we have no reason to assume that it mattered at all

who

Lamont had been following.

[cpe]

As it's still being discussed... Whilst, the simplest is often correct, it isn't always. And surely a follow could imply something about the person being followed. (I actually already know of Occam's Razor)

And, I haven't giving up on thinking L_C should probably be lynched, what I was saying was that he and SenFen were my only two suspects and if you people are all right, I'm wrong to particularly suspect SenFen, that leaves just L_C, but recent comments are giving me all sorts of other bits of suspicion...

[SensFan]

And surely a follow could imply something about the person being followed.

So if I started following you, that makes you Scum?

[cpe]

And surely a follow could imply something about the person being followed.

So if I started following you, that makes you Scum?

No, but it could mean something.

Possible model:
scum wants fast lynch

second scum votes same as first to accelerate potential lynch.

Someone mentions the follow

the scum don't both want to be voting for the same person any more, as if that person dies and was innocent it throws potential suspicion on any group who voted for them, and they've thought of that after the comment

so veer away...



Of course it's highly speculative, and if anything your reaction to my comment seems like more potential grounds for suspicion than the logic was in the first place, but then your reaction could be explained by something else.

Also the style of scum play I'm suggesting would be probably pretty stupid, and therefore may never happen.

[SensFan]

if anything your reaction to my comment seems like more potential grounds for suspicion than the logic was in the first place, but then your reaction could be explained by something else.

If I hear bullshit arguments, I attack them.

[cpe]

Adding to the above, the style of scum play I'm suggesting pretty much requires the following scum to decide that what they've been doing is stupid...

Could maybe be done by a newbie, hmm, yeah, I think my logic could work if L_C is a newbie and didn't think things through at the start of the game. Alternatively there are quite a few other explanations... I have less faith in my chain of logic by the second...

[SensFan]

Adding to the above, the style of scum play I'm suggesting pretty much requires the following scum to decide that what they've been doing is stupid...

Could maybe be done by a newbie, hmm, yeah, I think my logic could work if L_C is a newbie and didn't think things through at the start of the game. Alternatively there are quite a few other explanations... I have less faith in my chain of logic by the second...

You're still not seeing that LC following me has absolutely NOTHING to do with my alignment. Absolutely nothing. Zero.

[cpe]

Generally someone would have a reason for following someone else. E.g. me initially stating that I thought following you was a good idea because I thought you were pretty good.

Someone could choose to follow their fellow scum. As I've said 800 times now, of course it would at this stage probably be a stupid thing to do, and a more likely explanation is he did as me, choosing to follow someone he thought was good. But can't you at least acknowledge that following a fellow scum is a potential motive for a follow?

[SensFan]

]But can't you at least acknowledge that following a fellow scum is a potential motive for a follow?

He could be following with me because I'm his buddy.
He could be following with me because he wants me to look like his buddy.
He could be following with me because he thinks I'm a good player.
He could be following with me because I'm from Canada.
He could be following with me because the voices in his head told him to.

You could be attacking me for this because I'm your buddy.
You could be attacking me for this because you want me to look like your buddy.
You could be attacking me for this because you think I'm a good player.
You could be attacking me for this because I'm from Canada.
You could be attacking me for this because the voices in your head told you to.

---

Do you see my point?

[cpe]

Yes, but, you said there's 0 chance of him following you die to being fellow scum, this isn't rue, I'll admit now that it may be 0.5% chance, and I was wrong to lend it so much weight, but it's more than 0%.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Well, since I'm new to this site I would like some reinforcement on how policy lynching is not allowed in a newbie game. Otherwise my vote stands with CPE.

The johoolno lynch was to easy. That give me a bad feeeling.

[muzzz]

@Lamont: he wasn't even close to getting lynched, as far as I could tell. Did you mean the bandwagon, instead of the lynch? Why did you think it was too easy? And what do you think of my accusations against you? Are you considering giving more explanations in the future?