MKM II GAME OVER

[Riceballtail]

I already said why I didn't like item costs, because that could be different for different characters (like last game where different characters had cheaper or more expensive costs for items). For example, last game the mushrooms cost 2 coins instead of 3 for Toad players. No one would know that except for the Toads. The Toads were not the only town-aligned role last game.

The item abilities are something that are going to be consistent between everyone's descriptions. Questions about some of the abilities can be general enough not to reveal exactly how they work, but also specific enough to know that they player knows how the item functions.

This is a good post.

I second this notion.

Mod edit
Visible Votecount

-Shinnen_no_Me (2): Riceballtail, Surye
-Gorrad (2): Empking, ortolan
-zwetschenwasser (2): Shinnen_no_Me, AceMarksman
-Empking (1): zwetschenwasser
-AceMarksman (1): Shadow Knight
-killa seven (1): qwints
-ortolan (1): populartajo
-Cream147 (1): semioldguy

Not voting (6): killa seven, Moratorium, WeyounsLastClone, Cream147, Gorrad, caf19

With 17 alive it takes 9 real votes to lynch.

[qwints]

The red shell costs 2 more coins than the green shell.

[ortolan]

um...wouldn't it be a better idea just to use this when we're about to lynch someone? Then we can confirm if scummy behaviour = or doesn't = knowledge of item costs and then verify with a scumflip. I will read up to date very soon.

[Shadow Knight]

@ortolan- which is great until one of us with no item descriptions is up for lynch. Then what?

[Moratorium]

@ortolan- which is great until one of us with no item descriptions is up for lynch. Then what?

Then nothing? Then we treat you like any player up for lynch in any game ever?

Just because there are possibilities being discussed on how to treat lynch candidates who've declared item knowledge, doesn't mean that somehow when there's a player with declared item ignorance suddenly the rest of the players will fall down in spasms unable to coherently put together a sentence.

What a strange question.

[populartajo]

Kay, we'll ask if people more about the item descriptions if and only if we find someone is lying about pricing or we have this case of different roles having different prices.

At the end, the idea was not to give scum a lot of information, only the necessary. Costs is perfect with this.

Gorrad. I really doubt the prices are the same.

[populartajo]

Okay, so here we have a list.

People with items description

Tajo

Zwet

Qwints

caf19
semioldguy
Surye

Moratorium

WLC

Next contestant on the price is right!

Audience cheers.

Drumroll

Audience silences

caf19

- out of these two items:

green shell and poison mushroom

, which costs more and by how?[/quote]

[populartajo]

@ortolan- which is great until one of us with no item descriptions is up for lynch. Then what?

So, shadow any comments of ortolan?

[Moratorium]

People with items description

Tajo

Zwet

Qwints

caf19
semioldguy
Surye

Moratorium

WLC

/fume

What are you indicating here with this struck-through text?

[populartajo]

People that really have item descriptions.

[Moratorium]

And for the love of god, when people start answering the questions, can everyone just listen to the answers and make personal notes on who is confirmed and who isn't and not go "WOW SO-AND-SO, YOU GOT THE CORRECT ANSWER HURF DURF."

- Let everyone answer, make no comments on the answer.
- Once everyone is done answering, TAJO ONLY will pick out one person who is wrong.
- Vote that person away.

Don't fucking give up the whole fucking cow.

Sorry for my attitude, but FUCKING ZWETS PISSES ME OFF.

I agree.

So this is what, made up bullshit appeasement then?

[populartajo]

what exactly are you talking about?

[populartajo]

oh oh i see.
my bad.

[Moratorium]

The entire point of my post is to state "Look, don't reveal any confirmations of anyone answering questions, it's not necessary, everyone keep your own notes".

And the first thing you do is confirm qwints publicly.

Keep a damn lid on this process. There's no reason to tell anyone who is confirmed and who isn't. We may have third parties in this game. We may have unknown mechanics. Everyone is perfectly capable of realising who is telling the truth and who is fucking up the answers. Don't give anti-town players this information unnecessarily.

[Moratorium]

And I realise that this statement:

Everyone is perfectly capable of realising who is telling the truth and who is fucking up the answers.

Doesn't apply to these people:

Gorrad
Ace
Shadow Knight
Empking

But I find several of these people scummy regardless, so this group is, to me, collateral damage.

[semioldguy]

Please take Zwets off your list as well Tajo. I think he needs a question eventually. No, I don't think what he said so far necessarily confirms him at all. Mora should be taken off too I think.

After everyone else answers questions, I'd like Tajo to be asked and answer a question too. No one should float by. Him confirming/denying correct answers doesn't necessarily prove him because he could be the only scum on that list, if so and knowing that he is, he could deduce that everyone's answers were correct without actually knowing the answers himself.

[populartajo]

As I said, anyone suspecting me of lying is free to ask me any question.

[Shadow Knight]

@tajo- yeah, after rereading and paying close attentioni to ortolan, I'm gonna have to go with a

unvote, vote ortolan

He's made a lot of statements that just rub me the wrong way. Its nothing I can really articulate, but my gut feels good with this.

[Moratorium]

@tajo- yeah, after rereading and paying close attentioni to ortolan, I'm gonna have to go with a

unvote, vote ortolan

He's made a lot of statements that just rub me the wrong way. Its nothing I can really articulate, but my gut feels good with this.

"I'm going to vote for this person because Tajo seems to want to start a wagon on him. Don't ask me any questions about it."

vote: Shadow Knight

Vote stays until you define your reasoning. No one gets a free pass here.

[qwints]

I'm a little wary about the way these questions are being asked. We may end up leaving someone with an algebra problem to solve to get the question right.

[caf19]

caf19

- out of these two items:

green shell and poison mushroom

, which costs more and by how?

The shroom costs more, by 4.

Incidentally, this line of questioning is only good to confirm 3 people as after that the correct answers can be inferred from previous answers. (yes, this assumes that the first 3 answers are correct, but scum will know that they are correct if 3 townies have already answered. If there is a scumbag in the first 3 people, we'll know already). After the first 3 we'll be able to ask one absolute item value question (if we want to), then we'll have to use facets of the descriptions themselves to confirm the remaining people. Didn't really think about this before, my bad.

I suppose there are other questions we could ask actually, e.g. 'what is the sum of the prices of items x and y'.

[semioldguy]

I suppose there are other questions we could ask actually, e.g. 'what is the sum of the prices of items x and y'.

You can't ask this once one of the totals has been established, because then it just becomes a math problem and not that hard to figure out.

[caf19]

Indeed. Looks like we only get 4 questions then, before we move on to description questions. Oh well, that's the same amount we were going to get anyway.

[AceMarksman]

But I find several of these people scummy regardless, so this group is, to me, collateral damage.

Please take Zwets off your list as well Tajo. I think he needs a question eventually. No, I don't think what he said so far necessarily confirms him at all. Mora should be taken off too I think.

After everyone else answers questions, I'd like Tajo to be asked and answer a question too. No one should float by. Him confirming/denying correct answers doesn't necessarily prove him because he could be the only scum on that list, if so and knowing that he is, he could deduce that everyone's answers were correct without actually knowing the answers himself.

I agree with this post.

[WeyounsLastClone]

WLC - how many items cant be redirected?

Sorry for not answering sooner. Had a wedding all day yesterday, which left me much too tired (and drunk) to do something useful.

One of bowser's castles items specifically mentions it can't be redirected. That item has an 'even' cost.

I still don't know what to think of all the people who say they don't have item descriptions. I think the first post specifically lists which factions can use which items. I'd doubt if further distinction would be made, but there could be special roles. But then I'd think you'd have an additional role, and not completely ignoring items.

Also, I kinda think Lawrencelot would've build in some sort of safety against us using item descriptions to confirm townies. But I guess outguessing the mod doesn't get us any further.