MKM II GAME OVER


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Post Post #550 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:47 am

Post by zwetschenwasser »

yes. Why else would I raise my hand?


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-ortolan (3): populartajo, Shadow Knight, AceMarksman
-populartajo (3): semioldguy, zwetschenwasser, qwints
-Shinnen_no_Me (2): Riceballtail, Surye
-Shadow Knight (2): Moratorium, ortolan
-Gorrad (1): Empking
-zwetschenwasser (1): Shinnen_no_Me

Not voting (5): killa seven, WeyounsLastClone, Cream147, Gorrad, caf19

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Post Post #551 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:51 am

Post by semioldguy »

I don't know, but I didn't want to make an assumption.

Do you think the answer to my question would reveal too much or is it another problem you see with my question?
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Post Post #552 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:59 am

Post by zwetschenwasser »

Yes.
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Post Post #553 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:00 am

Post by semioldguy »

It's an either/or question zwet, not a yes/no question.
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Post Post #554 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:05 am

Post by zwetschenwasser »

to the first one.
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Post Post #555 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:20 am

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Do you think answering any of the options would reveal exactly how a trigger works? (other than the (a) choice) If so I can give multiple theoretical possibilities for each choice meaning that a yes answer to any choice would still leave the trigger not completely known.

Do you think the answer would be enough information for the scum to gain an advantage over the town in the item's use?
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Post Post #556 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:20 am

Post by populartajo »

Look at my title. It rocks!

Which question should I answer?
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Post Post #557 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:20 am

Post by Moratorium »

semioldguy wrote: If so I can give multiple theoretical possibilities for each choice meaning that a yes answer to any choice would still leave the trigger not completely known.
This is a good idea. I think your question in general is good, and if you can flesh it out with possible answers including all of the above and none of the above, we can confirm tajo as much as possible one way or the other.

Eventually, though, all of us will have to fill out a dissertation in cursive on the political, social, and economic ramifications of near-term agro-geneticisation of produce imports, the way these questions are going........
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Post Post #558 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:23 am

Post by populartajo »

semioldguy wrote:Tajo... can you please answer my question:

What made you think that my questions revealed too much information but that your question to me did not when they revealed the same information?
Do you understand the difference betwwen relative values and absolute values?

In numeric ways:

An answer of this type: a+b=30 means scum will never know exactly which is the value of "a" and "b". That is the case of questions like: of these two items which has the highest cost and by how.

An answer of this type a=20, means scum will know the value of "a" and ALL the values related to a, using only simple math. That is the case of questions like: give me the cost of the item bomb-omb.

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Post Post #559 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:45 am

Post by populartajo »

Which of the following can trigger the Bob-omb:
a. First person you give it to No
b. Number of times given No
c. Triggered by voting No
d. Holding or not holding another item No
e Passing it to certain player(s) No
f. Time elapsed No
g. Number of players passed to Yes
h. Bob-omb cannot be triggered (only used) No
i. None of the above
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Post Post #560 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:46 am

Post by semioldguy »

populartajo wrote:
semioldguy wrote:Tajo... can you please answer my question:

What made you think that my questions revealed too much information but that your question to me did not when they revealed the same information?
Do you understand the difference betwwen relative values and absolute values?

In numeric ways:

An answer of this type: a+b=30 means scum will never know exactly which is the value of "a" and "b". That is the case of questions like: of these two items which has the highest cost and by how.

An answer of this type a=20, means scum will know the value of "a" and ALL the values related to a, using only simple math. That is the case of questions like: give me the cost of the item bomb-omb.

God, whats wrong with you?
This is wrong. Math helps a lot here.

Let's start by giving each of the items a different unknown variable as their cost.

Green Shell = x
Bob-Omb = y
Red Shell = a
Poison Shroom = b

Your first question was asking the difference between the Green and red Shells. It was answered red cost more by two.

Green Shell = x
Bob-Omb = y
Red Shell = x +2
Poison Shroom = b

Next question was between the Green Shall and the Poison Shroom. Shroom was answered as costing more by four.

Green Shell = x
Bob-Omb = y
Red Shell = x +2
Poison Shroom = x + 4

Your next question asked between the green Shell and the Bob-omb.

Green Shell = x
Bob-Omb = x +1
Red Shell = x +2
Poison Shroom = x + 4

Now you can put a list together of increasing costs based on your three questions. Any question about added totals now can deduce the actual costs of the items. For example If I asked what the sum of the red and green shells were you could take that answer and set up the following equation. Let's assume that the sum of the two items is 100 for this example.

We get this: x + (x + 2) = 100
Which goes to: 2x + 2 = 100
Then 2x = 98
And finally x = 49

Once you establish every item's costs in relation to one another, you prevent yourself from asking a bunch of other questions about relative values and such.

_ _ _ _ _

You never said that my second question revealed too much information, you said
questions
, which is plural. If anything... the answer to your question of me revealed MORE than my question asking for a list. If the bob-omb was the most or least expensive item, then you could have still asked what it's total was in relation to another item, netting an extra question. That is why you have to leave the most or least expensive item for last in comparison, which you didn't do. For example if the cost-increasing list put the bob-omb at the highest or lowest cost, it could be ANY number higher or lower. The fact that it was in the middle meant that it's value in relation to the other items could be defined by it's placement alone, since none of the items were separated by more than two coins.
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Post Post #561 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:47 am

Post by semioldguy »

populartajo wrote:Which of the following can trigger the Bob-omb:
a. First person you give it to No
b. Number of times given No
c. Triggered by voting No
d. Holding or not holding another item No
e Passing it to certain player(s) No
f. Time elapsed No
g. Number of players passed to Yes
h. Bob-omb cannot be triggered (only used) No
i. None of the above
My vote is staying on you based off of these answers.
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Post Post #562 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:48 am

Post by populartajo »

Pfft, I answered your bomb question.
Next.
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Post Post #563 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:50 am

Post by semioldguy »

I know you did... and that's why my vote is staying on you.
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Post Post #564 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:51 am

Post by populartajo »

So that you shut up and stop wasting time writijng shit about me, here is some nice information for you:

Items ordered :

Gren shell - even cost
Bob-omb - odd cost
Red shell - even cost
Posion Shroom -. even cost

So NOW can we stop giving mafia more information than they need?
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Post Post #565 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:52 am

Post by populartajo »

semioldguy wrote:I know you did... and that's why my vote is staying on you.
So my answer about that the bomb item triggers when is passed a definite number of times is a lie?
Read your PM.
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Post Post #566 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:54 am

Post by semioldguy »

populartajo wrote:So that you shut up and stop wasting time writijng shit about me, here is some nice information for you:

Items ordered :

Gren shell - even cost
Bob-omb - odd cost
Red shell - even cost
Posion Shroom -. even cost

So NOW can we stop giving mafia more information than they need?
No, that could have been deduced from WLC's post revealing that the item in question was an even numbered value and then the relationship values to the other items.
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Post Post #567 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:56 am

Post by populartajo »

The poison shroom costs 10 coins.
NOW SHUT THE FUCK UP.
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Post Post #568 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:57 am

Post by semioldguy »

I did read my PM, and G is not the right answer to my question.
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Post Post #569 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:58 am

Post by semioldguy »

populartajo wrote:The poison shroom costs 10 coins.
NOW SHUT THE FUCK UP.
This also can be deduced by the answers given already.
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Post Post #570 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:00 pm

Post by populartajo »

semioldguy wrote:I did read my PM, and G is not the right answer to my question.
This is strange because in my PM, it explicetely says that the bomb triggers when a)this item is traded "x" times. and b)a reason I dont think scum should know.
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Post Post #571 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:00 pm

Post by populartajo »

semioldguy wrote:
populartajo wrote:The poison shroom costs 10 coins.
NOW SHUT THE FUCK UP.
This also can be deduced by the answers given already.
Prove it.
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Post Post #572 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:01 pm

Post by Moratorium »

What a clusterfuck.
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Post Post #573 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:02 pm

Post by semioldguy »

Here is how you figure out it costs 10 coins from the answers given:

Green Shell = x
Bob-Omb = x + 1
Red Shell = x +2
Poison Shroom = x + 4

You know that only the Shroom costs more than 8 coins by zwet's answer.
You know that the shroom is even from WLC's answer.

That means the Shroom must cost at least 10 coins.

Green Shell = 6
Bob-Omb = 7
Red Shell = 8
Poison Shroom = 10

If you try to make it 12 this is what happens:

Green Shell = 8
Bob-Omb = 9
Red Shell = 10
Poison Shroom = 12

And now you no longer have only one item costing more than ten coins.
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Post Post #574 (ISO) » Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:02 pm

Post by populartajo »

Retarded people make me go crazy.
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