Mini 774: Case Closed Mafia (One Truth Prevails!)

[Korlash]

In my last post against Fire I made a very clear "main focus part" so don't demand shit of me when I've already started trying to make life easier for you.

Fire is scum based off what I feel is a likely fakeclaim. He admitted to pulling it directly off a wiki and so it cannot be trusted ever for any reason.

Because of this and his readiness to be lynched he will be a danger and dsitraction tot he town int he future. Thusly, as he is not only likely scum but a future hindrance he should be today's lynch.

He kept calling for more discussion (which he later tried to use in his defense as being town... Kinda making it appear that was his plan all along! Wait I'm getting ahead of myself) while making inane and vague posts/questions and refusinging to clearify them when asked. In addition he is guilty of contrdictions, pushing inconsisntancies, and blatant lying. All in all this is text-book scum mis-information.

His contradictions include arguing he should be lynched becuase of the WIFOM, and then calling me scum when I said it. Another one is when he said he voted SC because he was pushing Lies and Inconsistencies and then in the next line blatantly mis-represented my case with a lie himself. He has also tried to mis-rep my case constantly with this lie, which I feel makes it an inconsistency itself.

That is more or less the most important topics. I understand when two people get going at it they tend to make a lot of tl;drs so I hope you enjoyed this summery.

[StrangerCoug]

I still want Sajin lynched with the "80% town, but still willing to lynch" comment along with twisting my words and false OMGUS accusations, but I think Firestarter is scummy enough to warrant me hammering him.

[Sajin]

I still want Sajin lynched with the "80% town, but still willing to lynch" comment along with twisting my words and false OMGUS accusations, but I think Firestarter is scummy enough to warrant me hammering him.

I am glad your still OMGUSing scum. I think korlash and Batsuoi agree with my comment. And I would love to see how you think I twisted words.

[Battousai]

While I agree with your logic in your last post, I donot understand how you interpret SC's last post as OMGUS. How do you define OMGUS?

Korlash-

Read post 473 or at least the top of it, as I asked you a question there that you haven't answered.

[Battousai]

*and when I say last post, I meant the vote Fire post, not post 502.

[Sajin]

OMGUS- Sudden voting or pressuring of someone as a response to that someone voting/pressuring you. Usually done in greater amounts then original pressure in an attempt to get pressure off.

[Battousai]

Could you please give me a list of all your attacks on SC and all his on you?

[Sajin]

Nope, they are in the thread, feel free to browse. Besides if I personally list them then SC would just claim some were not attacks, and this one was weak etc etc.

Its better for town if you decide for yourself. Not having SC or myself manipulate it.

[Kairyuu]

Honestly, if you guys don't like the fact that I don't have the time to read and comment on this game for awhile, then call for my replacement or lynch me. Failing those, just bear with me for a few more days. All of the stupid final projects for Seniors are due this week. I'm doing the best I can with extremely scarce amounts of time.

I'll be V/LA completely until Thursday night by the way.

[alexhans]

I'm trying to comprise my suspicious of people in this game so far in a short easy way.
Kairyuu, you just replaced into this game. Don't start sayin replace me or lynch me. Read when you have time, ASAP. And start posting questions, cases, opinions, whatever.

[Battousai]

OMGUS- Sudden voting or pressuring of someone as a response to that someone voting/pressuring you. Usually done in greater amounts then original pressure in an attempt to get pressure off.

Then by that token, do you think SC is feeling pressure from you. SC has only 1 vote on him, and is no where near being lynched. Do you think SC is only attacking you for attacking him? Do you think what you said about Fire is scummy or that saying that it is, is not a valid point?

[Sajin]

OMGUS- Sudden voting or pressuring of someone as a response to that someone voting/pressuring you. Usually done in greater amounts then original pressure in an attempt to get pressure off.

Then by that token, do you think SC is feeling pressure from you. SC has only 1 vote on him, and is no where near being lynched. Do you think SC is only attacking you for attacking him? Do you think what you said about Fire is scummy or that saying that it is, is not a valid point?

at the time of my pressuring him fire was voting him and kairu had accused but not posted anything.

1st ?- yes
2nd?- clarify please. what is "it"/ the point in question.

[Sajin]

I fail at names, sorry kairyuu

[Battousai]

What you said about fire- the 80/20 post

Do you think that it could be scummy? Or if someone thinks it[the 80/20 post] is scummy, it is not a valid point. Basically do you think SC saying that you were suspicious from the 80/20 post is valid?

[Sajin]

Nope, I stand behind my statement. It is not scummy to on day 1 want to lynch someone could be town. In a 3/12 setup 80/20 is barely more town than neutral. And that is how I see Fire atm slightly town favored with a very soft floor. Its the soft floor that makes me ok with lynching him.

[StrangerCoug]

OMGUS- Sudden voting or pressuring of someone as a response to that someone voting/pressuring you. Usually done in greater amounts then original pressure in an attempt to get pressure off.

Apparently, our definitions conflict. I go by the classic definition of player X voting player Y solely because player Y is voting player X. Even if your definition is correct, it's not a scum tell on my part if you're voting or pressuring me on crap, which is what you are doing.

Nope, they are in the thread, feel free to browse. Besides if I personally list them then SC would just claim some were not attacks, and this one was weak etc etc.

Your holding back your opinions from the town to avoid pressure is heavily noted. You had given absolutely no original input to my case when you voted me, and I was not the first person to step up and comment about it.

Nope, I stand behind my statement. It is not scummy to on day 1 want to lynch someone could be town. In a 3/12 setup 80/20 is barely more town than neutral. And that is how I see Fire atm slightly town favored with a very soft floor. Its the soft floor that makes me ok with lynching him.

Go read post #45 made by yours truly in Open 96: Carbon-14, come back, read what I just quoted, and see if you are reminded of anything.

[Sajin]

1- I read this as, "give me more words to twist"

2- I answered every question asked of me and will continue to do so. Your denial of this is noted.

3- I could care less what you posted in other games. This is not relevant at all in this game, especially when brought up by the same poster. Thanks for the attempted alignment frame on yourself.

Thanks for confirming my suspicions.

[StrangerCoug]

1- I read this as, "give me more words to twist"

How so? This is not the first time I've told you "this is crap". I feel that I have adequately defended my attacking you after you attacking me. If I attacked somebody and that somebody thought he or she had a legitimate reason to attack back, then he or she by all means can—his or her opinion is not void, as you are slandering mine to be. If defendants were forbidden the right to attack back if the person questioning him or her was scummy, this game would easily be won by the Mafia, and that assumes the game gets anywhere.

2- I answered every question asked of me and will continue to do so. Your denial of this is noted.

Actually, this is what set me off:

Besides if I personally list them then SC would just claim some were not attacks, and this one was weak etc etc.

How is this criticizing your not answering questions, and how is this criticizing your not answering questions as opposed to implying you're keeping things to yourself under fear of scrutiny?

3- I could care less what you posted in other games. This is not relevant at all in this game, especially when brought up by the same poster. Thanks for the attempted alignment frame on yourself.

I brought that up because that's a post I made as scum which I see as similar to yours. That game is completed, and I have used stuff I've done previously as scum as tells against others doing the same or similar in later games. Kairyuu did that against me in this very thread, and I see no difference in the long run with what I'm talking about here.

Seriously, read it before you dismiss it as unimportant. It's backing some of my reasoning as to why you are scum.

[Gorrad]

Vote Count:

Firestarter(3): Millar13, Korlash, Battousai
StrangerCoug(1): Sajin
alexhans(1): Kairyuu
Korlash(1): Lindisfarne
Lindisfarne(1): GhostWriter
Sajin(1): StrangerCoug
Battousai(1): Firestarter

Not Voting(3): Inquisitor Vulcan Skorn, alexhans, Isacc

A reminder: Deadline is this Friday.

[Sajin]

1- I read this as, "give me more words to twist"

How so? This is not the first time I've told you "this is crap". I feel that I have adequately defended my attacking you after you attacking me. If I attacked somebody and that somebody thought he or she had a legitimate reason to attack back, then he or she by all means can—his or her opinion is not void, as you are slandering mine to be. If defendants were forbidden the right to attack back if the person questioning him or her was scummy, this game would easily be won by the Mafia, and that assumes the game gets anywhere.

2- I answered every question asked of me and will continue to do so. Your denial of this is noted.

Actually, this is what set me off:

Besides if I personally list them then SC would just claim some were not attacks, and this one was weak etc etc.

How is this criticizing your not answering questions, and how is this criticizing your not answering questions as opposed to implying you're keeping things to yourself under fear of scrutiny?

3- I could care less what you posted in other games. This is not relevant at all in this game, especially when brought up by the same poster. Thanks for the attempted alignment frame on yourself.

I brought that up because that's a post I made as scum which I see as similar to yours. That game is completed, and I have used stuff I've done previously as scum as tells against others doing the same or similar in later games. Kairyuu did that against me in this very thread, and I see no difference in the long run with what I'm talking about here.

Seriously, read it before you dismiss it as unimportant. It's backing some of my reasoning as to why you are scum.

Not reading it. Still. I love that you feel the need to create outside material to somehow demonstrate your point. I have no fear of scrutiny- you obviously do. Thanks for proving my point.

[StrangerCoug]

Not reading it. Still. I love that you feel the need to create outside material to somehow demonstrate your point.

There's stuff in here I'm drawing my case from here too, so don't you DARE think I'm using some sneaky, underhanded trick from God knows where to present a case.

My other two questions retain validity, so answer them.

I have no fear of scrutiny- you obviously do.

Prove that I'm afraid of scrutiny xD

[Sajin]

new Question- You proved that yourself fearful when you attacked me.

Question 2- I already answered.

Question 1 your baiting me for more material so you can twist it back on me. Just like you did with your last 4 posts or so.

[alexhans]

Comprised read on every player.

Battousai:

He leaves Fire at L-1 after I said I didn't want him hammered. Sometimes feels town sometimes scum. He acts like a judge asking here and there.

Korlash:

while I may not agree with his line of thoughts. I don't see him as particularly scummy. He asked for flavour but then condemned Fire for that flavour. Says we are wasting time. That, I didn't like.

GhostWriter:

Am I missing something or does he still needs a replacement?

Lindisfarne (Dubya):

Neutral read. He has posted logical and good observations and asked good questions. I like him. made a good point that SC and Isaac just patted on the back while millar carried the case.

Isacc:

In his first real post he already states that Fire is scum. Casually when Fire was getting heat. Opportunistic? I don't like his attitude towards Fire. Pushing too hard. Also the fact that he announced that he was going to change his playstyle... meta-inmune? Very aggressive. Ad Hominem. Super tunnel vision. re-reading apparently.

Firestarter:

Well... He did so many things. The suspicion on millar, I think was genuine and right. Then everybody (almost) started attacking him and he got paranoid and started yelling at everyone in frustration. I didn't like when he said that he had found a scumbuddy in Isaac that matter-of-factly. Now he is throwing votes at any players he suspects. It's like a merry go round. He is totally unsure and thinking... A is scum... then searches A thinking he is scum and finds a lot of supposed scum tells... then he switches to B... same process... I think he is loosing investigation credibility. I strongly suspect he is town and that his claim is true. Maybe he just needs to keep it a bit simpler.

Inquisitor Vulcan Skorn (Rage):

Hasn't caught up yet. Apparently.

Millar13:

I see a lot of mistakes and inconsistencies. But I also think that are most likely town play seeing he is now having second thoughts. He got a bit tunnel visioned and carried away.

Sajin:

He votes for SC without justification. Low content. Seemed to go along with Fire's vote and SC's vote without much justification. Strange reaction when I told him to explain his SC vote.

StrangerCoug:

Well. My most suspicious character. I was preparing my post and he fosed me for the slightest thing, I wrote my suspicions and he voted for me. Now Sajin votes for him, he votes for Sajin. He supported the case that looked more like a lynch. Pushed hard on fire without explaining much but made sure that millar was seen as suspicious too and stated repeatedly that they looked like bussing. Odd. He was quick to dismiss the fire claim. millar noted a generalization by my part and SC calls it inmediatly a "very good" case. I was going on hard into SC at the time.

Kairyuu (Afatchic):

AFC did nothing but joked around with SC, OMGUS jokes. Nothing. I wouldn't discard scumteam. Kairyuu replaced and accuses SC and me as scum. About SC he gives a little bit of a case. Against me. Nothing. Until I question him and he votes me for misrep. Now unvotes.
------------------

Vote Pattern:

Battou: Millar13, Fire, unvote, Fire.
AFC/Kayriuu: SC, unvote, SC, Alexhans.
Lindisfarne (Dubya): Korlash
Fire: Rage, AFC, millar, unvote, millar, unvote, millar, SC, Korlash, Battou.
Korlash: Korlash, Fire
Inquisitor Vulcan Skorn (Rage):pacman, unvote
Alexhans (pacman): Korlash, unvote.
Isaac: GhostWriter, Fire, unvote
millar: Fire, Unvote, Fire.
Sajin: Fire, SC.
SC: AFC, millar, Fire, Alexhans, Sajin.
GhostWriter: Dubya.
--------------
Some thoughts about the last posts:

at the time of my pressuring him fire was voting him and kairu had accused but not posted anything.

And I had accused him strongly too.

You had given absolutely no original input to my case when you voted me, and I was not the first person to step up and comment about it.

QFT
Although I am wary of SC in this fight between him and Sajin SC is the winner due to his more intelligent ways of discussing.

Besides if I personally list them then SC would just claim some were not attacks, and this one was weak etc etc.

I don't like this at all. Saying you're not gonna make a case because they're going to say is weak means you believe your case is weak or null.

This was the post where Sajin voted SC: 376.

In fact, I'm gonna quote it:

I have been fooled enough by fake tells to know this.

Please elaborate on this point.

I cannot elaborate without breaking forum conduct rules, namely referencing other mafia websites and/or ongoing games. Suffice it to say its happened before.

That said, I like your arguments here.

unvote, vote: strangercoug

then when I ask reasons along with Battou.

Sajin- What are you suspicious of SC for? Don't say "I agree with Firestarter."

QFT.

Its the same thing we didn't like about SC when he agreed with millar's case on fire.

last page I said I am suspicious and you quote and agree with me.

Then you slam me

for actualizing my suspicions with a vote a page later. What gives?

I "slamed" him?? weird reaction. This is my quote

Referencing all those scum tactics is scummy in my opinion. Purely because doing so casts doubt rather than digs up any information.

This is what I've been trying to say.

While I agree with the point the way in wich Sajin handled himself regarding SC's vote was wrong.

Sc, however, quickly attacked Sajin. That seems to be his MO. Attacking his attacker. Like his fos on me and then vote.

I also dislike the way in wich SC tries to pin Sajin down with the 80/20 statement. That's a lawyer-like trap. Not good. Sajin isn't voting Fire.

The thing about Sajin is that he switched from defending a Fire lynch because it would give us info to an SC lynch the he didn't explain much when SC seemed to be in the spotlightb because of me and Fire.

Well... I've decided to vote. I think it's the right choice.

Vote StrangerCoug

.

[StrangerCoug]

new Question- You proved that yourself fearful when you attacked me.

My attacking you back does not necessarily mean that I'm afraid of you. I know better than to respond to a case with another case unless I have something with which to back the latter up.

Question 1 your baiting me for more material so you can twist it back on me. Just like you did with your last 4 posts or so.

Your case on me really isn't that substantial. The only thing I can find on it that others haven't brought up is OMGUS, which I've been constantly refuting. Unless I've missed something (which Firestarter has proven that I have before).

In addition, I'm laughing at your fear of my twisting stuff back on you when you've done the same to me by calling my scapegoat comment a slip. Hypocritical, Sajin?

Sajin:

He votes for SC without justification. Low content. Seemed to go along with Fire's vote and SC's vote without much justification. Strange reaction when I told him to explain his SC vote.

Quoted for truth.

Now, alexhans doesn't like your posting, but he's posted a decent case on me, which I respond to below. Where is yours?

StrangerCoug:

Well. My most suspicious character. I was preparing my post and he fosed me for the slightest thing, I wrote my suspicions and he voted for me.

I FOS'd you for the words "smart mislynch", which only makes sense if you're scum. I don't have a grace period as to when to call people scummy. If the very first post by a person other than the mod is scummy, then I might as well forget about random voting.

Now Sajin votes for him, he votes for Sajin.

For essentially the same things you've been attacking him for.

He supported the case that looked more like a lynch. Pushed hard on fire without explaining much but made sure that millar was seen as suspicious too and stated repeatedly that they looked like bussing. Odd.

It took me awhile to drop my suspicions with millar13. As I said, I switched when he and Firestarter were equally scummy to me. Yes, it's to the one closer to being lynched, but I fail to see how doing so is scummy in this scenario.

He was quick to dismiss the fire claim.

A vanilla townie claimant is one of the safest people to get rid of. You only get a scum claim once in a blue moon, and then only from idiots or people who don't care what happens to them. He also talked an awful lot about his claim "like there's nothing else to talk about," to use my very own words.

millar noted a generalization by my part and SC calls it inmediatly a "very good" case.

The "very good" case was admittedly you calling two people everybody. Granted, I wish I had more to back up saying stuff like that than I did, but it's supporting my "you say one thing when the reality is another" accusation. You blew things out of proportion, which is not townie.

Sc, however, quickly attacked Sajin. That seems to be his MO. Attacking his attacker. Like his fos on me and then vote.

I am known to be aggressive, yes.

I also dislike the way in wich SC tries to pin Sajin down with the 80/20 statement. That's a lawyer-like trap. Not good. Sajin isn't voting Fire.

I am fully aware he isn't, but he gave me the impression that he would be willing to. He's essentially abetting what he thinks is a mislynch despite the case on him.

[Firestarter]

Guys, I haven't been at my PC since yesterday, and have only looked at this page briefly.

If there's anything outstanding, I wont be able to answer/post thoughts until tomorrow.