Mini 774: Case Closed Mafia (One Truth Prevails!)

[Battousai]

"He acts like a judge asking here and there"

Is that scummy/townie/null?

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Please prod Inquisitor Vulcan Skorn.

[alexhans]

"He acts like a judge asking here and there"

Is that scummy/townie/null?

You pick one. I don't know. I can't read you. But I prefer to keep you around because you seem to scum hunt and be logical.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: Please prod Inquisitor Vulcan Skorn.

[StrangerCoug]

Stupid me asking the same thing twice... I saw it typed out in the quick reply box, so I thought I didn't send it.

[Gorrad]

Done. Still looking for a replacement for Ghost Writer.

[Kairyuu]

Checking in briefly.

@alexhans: I have not unvoted, and don't plan to unless someone else strikes me as scummier than you when I finally get around to reading the full thread.

@all: Given that the deadline is Friday, this game will be my top priority for rereading and catching up. It's really bothering me that I'm having so much trouble with this game.

[alexhans]

@alexhans: I have not unvoted, and don't plan to unless someone else strikes me as scummier than you when I finally get around to reading the full thread.

I hope you'll tell us someday why on earth do you found me so scummy that there were to many reasons to count... I think I just touched your pride there and you won't let go. You can admit you were wrong you know. Anyway, You're welcome to ask me any questions you want.

[alexhans]

EBWOP: Oh... Also... In my comprised read I posted that Kairyuu "now unvotes" when it was really ISaac who did.

[Death the Hogfather]

Admit I'm wrong? Why on earth would I want to do that? Especially considering that I'm not. I'm never wrong! If you think you're town, then you read your role PM wrong. And if the mod thinks he sent you a town role PM, then he's wrong too.

Alright. I'm off for the day. Gotta go get crap done.

[Kairyuu]

Damnit. I knew that would happen sooner or later. The hydra game will kill us all.

[alexhans]

WTF?? who is Death the Hogfather? I would think that he is Kairyuu's alt account but he posted with 1 minute difference...

[Kairyuu]

It's a hydra account for Seraphim and me for Adel's Deep South game. I had just posted there and forgot to log out. I figured that would be apparent by my following post.

[StrangerCoug]

For a moment I thought Death the Hogfather was a replacement o.0

[Gorrad]

madeofphail replaces Ghost Writer. YAY! No replacements needed for now.

[Korlash]

Hi new guy.

Also,

Korlash-

Read post 473 or at least the top of it, as I asked you a question there that you haven't answered.

My bad, I haven't been giving this game the full attention I should so I may have missed some things... lets see... 473...

Why do you assume this? Especially after I noted how Fire's claim uses both, yet you thought it was suspicious then.

I assume you mean the "some may have both" thing. I'm saing there may be characters with identical names in each language. Like Yusuke in japanese translates to Yusuke in English. anyone with Yusuke as a name is not only a kick ass spirit detective (Hey Gorrad /in for Yu Yu Hakusho? eh? eh?) but would both qualify as an English and Japanese name. Jimmy on the other hand has a specific japanese and english name. That's what I meant by both. It's supsicious Fire would use a japanese name for one role that hs a specific English name and then use an English name for himself. (Vivian's name in japanese is "Yukiko"... so his role is obviously not a "both" qualifyer)


I can see where the misunderstanding came in there... I appologize for not making it clear. I hope this answers your question...

[Lindisfarne]

Sajin:

@Lindisfarne

1: I got tired of the quadruple nested quotes with long posts all on the same subject. Conversation was lacking especially with out replacements.

2-3: I still think it provides information. This is not a strong argument I agree.

4/next: I think the benefits *ON DAY 1* favor scum over town. Later on, I totally agree with you.

1. Fair enough. Hell, I can agree, some of this is just dragging on far more than it should: and that's a big thing to be coming from me, since I generally write novels for posts.

2-3: I see it providing for very little, but I respect you acknowledge it isn't a strong argument. I think this just ends up a conflict of playstyles, ultimately.

4/next: Actually, for the purpose I was suggesting the list for, to scum hunt, I find it's use to be the OPPOSITE. I find it far more effective early on, in the first two days or so.

My logic:

As I said before, townies will be scum hunting to the best of their ability from d1. Scum have two common (note:COMMON) tactics: to sit back in the early game and let town poke at each other, or try to be vocal, and a key manipulator in the events of the day. Scum wont be scum hunting: they will be keeping their eyes open for scummy behavior to exploit, but mostly they have their own tactics of wining. Asking for a list early on, gives me a good judge on who is actually scum hunting. We've had 22 pages so far, if anyone says they don't have a good read, or don't have any main suspects when confronted, I'll feel something is up. We've had too much happen so far for anyone to have no suspicions. That is how I would have looked at the list, and treated it as a tool to hunt scum by.

You may disagree, but I still believe it's use is best early on (not in the first few pages, but by the end of d1, early d2).

Korlash

However, I would rather our cop investigates someone who will likely be useful, AKA not freaking vanilla, so when and if any massclaim comes about we get more (and more important) town confirmed.

Ok, this point I can agree with. I would rather our cop investigate more...useful players. I still feel fire is town, but I would think that investigation could be served better elsewhere. This is a point I didn't think of kor, kudos.

... No... it is not a reach. Just because there are other ways scum can set things up doesn't change that they can and will also use end game scum lists.

Where did I say we need to do a list at the end of the game? If I'm not mistaken, I was asking for a list for today. I stated my reasoning why earlier in this post.

sharing info is fine, but sharing that specific info right before night is stupid. It in no way helps us and only creates opprotunities for us to lose

WAIT.

Sharing info is fine?

Sharing that info before night is stupid?

That same info, which you said before was fine, helps us in no way? Then why share it period. Your tactic sounds like everyone running around aimlessly with no communication between town. You don't want to share info, your post made that very clear. That is stupid.

The lists scum would give us have the same cahnce of outing them as any other post they make, so it's kinda not necessary for that

read earlier in this post, I said why I feel a list is helpful for catching scum. If you can't utilize that to find scum tells, then fine, I can't fault you if you play a different way than I; but I try to, you know, utilize as much information as possible to determine who is scum and who isn't.

Hell, now I have an argument that makes it anti-town. Do you seriously think this is still worth fighting me over?

Big whoop. I told you how a list can be used to find scumtells, depending on the timing. Threatening me with "anti-town" bs doesn't scare me in the slightest. If you think I'm scummy, vote.

In fact, posting it day 2 does have some higher cahnces of catching scum.

(Although granted in some situations posting at the end of day 1 has higher as well)

What? You've gone on about how its this HORRIBLE idea to post at the end of d1, and now you're admitting that it can have higher results of catching scum as well?

So in a nutshell, you're admitting its usefulness, but your fear of giving scum information is going to hold back gathering more evidence for town?

well I'm hoping my post here has given you some insight into this a bit more. I think he is scum for his claim, I think he needs to be lynched TODAY because of what his surviving will do to the town, be it a wasted cop investigation or a fucked up endgame. Even tomorrow, a lot of time will be wasted on him. He will almost certainly get a wagon formed on him again at some point. All of this is based on my opinions and my experiences if you don't agree his claim is worth lynhing him for and you don't agree letting him live is a bad idea then don't lynch him.

I see nothing scum-like in his claim, and find it believable, I DO agree with your point on him being a wasted investigation however. A wagon can be formed on anyone. We shouldn't lynch you now because you could have a wagon later on you (which can happen) I find that a moot point. Thank you for pointing out your reasoning more though.

*I've shortened this post up A LOT, and took off a big segment here that took me about 30 minutes to type. It was basically points I've brought up earlier in this post, and me being very snarky towards korlash and his attitude. These posts are long enough as it is, so I've omitted a lot to make my posts more focused.

@alex: don't base anything off people's wikis. Hell, anyone who reads mine would really get the wrong idea about me. It's just a little place for some silly info, not the best place to delve playstyle from.

Post 478

UNVOTE

Korlash, 478 put several things into perspective for me. I too find it odd that he finds you less scummy after his tirade on you, and switches to batt. His reasoning on Batt is weak (c'mon, referencing votes in the random voting stage? That's weak, man). Although I don't agree with all of your points, I do see him as a possible waste of an investigation.

(The matter stands that I still disagree with your logic on lists, but you can't win 'em all)

(cut for space) and you guys have posted such an utterly ridiculous Wall-o-text frenzy that it's nearly impossible to keep up. I am a pretty heavy poster at times and I even think it's getting out of hand with the super-massive overly-complicated posts.

That said, people need to start making their arguments consice and organized. Many of the wall posts are definitely NOT necessary or understandable.

^^^ This

Kairyuu- What I don't understand, though, is your vote. Why not take it back off until you have time to tell us why you voted for him in the first place. Why are you so deadset in leaving it on him?

To gauge a reaction, maybe? We've already been over pressure earlier this game, that should be a given.

The modkill thing was clear. I don't know why he suggests after saying someone is town, that he should be modkilled. That's not very cool.

kair said he was confused why fire wasn't mod killed. The rules say you cannot quote you're role PM. Obviously Kair thought this was an infraction of this rule. Shouldn't be that difficult to get

How does 1412 Maple Street sound? There... it's addressed.

I friggin lol'd.

Hello madeofphail.

Mod: is there a way to extend the deadline at all, to give our final replacement more than two days to catch up, post, and debate with us, I believe we're also waiting on some input from a few other players as well

[alexhans]

@alex: don't base anything off people's wikis. Hell, anyone who reads mine would really get the wrong idea about me. It's just a little place for some silly info, not the best place to delve playstyle from.

meh... I go to the wiki to look for meta but I saw that and found it to be relevant. I think it talks about people a bit. It can tell us if people joke or are dead serious about their games. Anyway, what really annoys me is his calling me scum matter of factly without explaining.

[Battousai]

Lind- What is the difference between a town reaction and a scum reaction, to being called scum and/or voted for no posted reason?

[Lindisfarne]

Batt:

I play under the premise scum are generally more defensive than town in their reactions. What kair is doing is not very scummy, alex is being a bit overly defensive in my eyes. I'd think a townie would be annoyed, yes, but wouldn't fret so much over it, especially when there's only one vote on him.

[StrangerCoug]

Scum have two common (note:COMMON) tactics: to sit back in the early game and let town poke at each other, or try to be vocal, and a key manipulator in the events of the day.

Am I correct in interpreting this statement that Mafia rarely take the middle ground in terms of what you're talking about?

[alexhans]

What kair is doing is not very scummy, alex is being a bit overly defensive in my eyes

I'm not over defending... I'm not understanding.... I don't care if it's L-1 or L-5000... I just want to see what he has to say for himself. Isn't his attitude strange? I just want him be responsible for his actions.

Explain, in your own words, what you think Kair is doing and why it's not very scummy.

[Gorrad]

Millar13 has not posted since the 24th and has been prodded. Inquisitor Vulcan Skorn will be replaced if he does not post today. Deadline is extended until Monday, but this is a one-time deal.

[Lindisfarne]

Am I correct in interpreting this statement that Mafia rarely take the middle ground in terms of what you're talking about?

You would be correct in interpreting that d1 the most common tactics for scum are to either sit back and watch the days events unfold, or leap head-first and become a vocal figure early on. I'm sure theres several people who play the fence between lurking and being vocal the first day, but that is not the most common tactic from what I've seen.

Explain, in your own words, what you think Kair is doing and why it's not very scummy.

In my own words:

"Kairyuu thinks you're scummy for things he saw during his initial read. He says he has been busy with prom, and senior projects, and has little time to work with. Seeing as I recall how hellish my last month or so of high school was, I'm inclined to believe he's busy with school. The fact he made a goof and posted under an alt further shows me he's trying to post as much as possible with the time allowed.

kairyuu said when he gets time he will post at great length all that you have done that is scummy. I look forward to gaining insight into whatever he's thinking, but I know that badgering him about it or his attitude won't speed things up at all"

There. For the record, I will say I personally don't dig kair's attitude right now; but this is a game where I'm noticing a lot of attitude conflicts. Hell, I had to omit a great deal from my last big post to maintain civility.

Mod: Thank you for the extension

[millar13]

Well, I have been watching but not feeling I have anything constructive to say. To Be Honest, with the likelihood that Firestarter is town...i really don't know what to do. Feeling is I laid all my eggs in one basket...and they broke.