MKM II GAME OVER

[AceMarksman]

I wouldn't doubt it.

Mod edit
Visible Votecount

-Shadow Knight (6): Moratorium, ortolan, qwints, semioldguy, WeyounsLastClone, zwetschenwasser
-ortolan (2): AceMarksman, Gorrad
-Looker (2): caf19, populartajo

Not voting (7): killa seven, Cream147, ZEEnon, Riceballtail, Empking, Shadow Knight, Looker

With 17 alive it takes 9 real votes to lynch. Deadline: May 4th 2009.

[populartajo]

Role-related reasons.
________________________________

Question for anyone:

Do you think that the scum have fake claims?

________________________________

I do.

The other game, Law gave scum only the name of town roles that were not in the game. Scum had to fabricate the powers.

Thats why I really think SK isnt fabricating its role and therefore he is telling the truth.

I could be wrong but my gut tells me he is indeed a goomba in a bubble, which, IMO, is not a ridiculous claim.

[populartajo]

Ace, your PM sayd that you cant use items or that you cant buy item, or both?

Ace, please answer this.

[ZEEnon]

I just replaced into this game a little while ago, populartajo.
Wanna do me a favour and list all the suspicions you have, as well as the reasoning for those suspicions?

[AceMarksman]

Ace, your PM sayd that you cant use items or that you cant buy item, or both?

Ace, please answer this.

Sorry, didn't see it. My PM says that I can't buy items, but I can be given them and I can give them to other players. It says nothing about usage.

[populartajo]

I just replaced into this game a little while ago, populartajo.
Wanna do me a favour and list all the suspicions you have, as well as the reasoning for those suspicions?

My three suspects were ort, SK and Looker(Shinnen). All these three guys were against or showed antipathy for a plan that until now has confirmed some people as prob Bowser Army.

Ort was my heaviest attacker. He even voted me, then refused to collaborate, then attacked me for weak reasons, to finally confirm that he prob has item descriptions in his PM. Im still not sure about this since the question and the answer were ambiguous enough. I propose he uses a letter today to prove that he indeed has item descriptions in his PM unless someone else thinks in a question that he can answer clearly.

SK also showed antipathy for the plan cuz he didnt have item description in his PM. Voted Surye for being "confused" when reading his PM when the logical reaction was to be confused. Also voted Ort following my reasons to vote him. However, he has claimed "goomba in a bubble", a claim that I really see hard to fakeclaim considering the amount of information he gave us. My gut tells me this guy is legit.

Shinnen also comploted against my plan thinking. Looker replaced and then concentrated bizarrely in the ort-SK dilemma, voting SK without having read the thread, (he even admits that when I asked him the questions about the items description in his PM). He now is lurrking.

After these guys, there are people like zwet and Empking that SHOULDNT stay alive until endgame, even if they are town. I really thinki the people in the "I have item description" list is prob town and that we should lynch people systematically in the "refusing to" and "I dont have item descriptions" lists. Since Ort and SK dont feel as optymal lynches as they were before, I REALLY think that Looker is the lynch of the day.

This is pretty much my current reasoning in the game.

[ZEEnon]

Ah, thank you.
________________________________

Since Ort and SK dont feel as optymal lynches as they were before...

What changed your mind about ortolan?
________________________________

[populartajo]

Ok, Ive been thinking in this. I need to evaluate other responses to my reasoning.

As every game of mafia that has vanilla townies, this game also should have at least a group of townies sharing the same PM.

Last game the Toads were the vanilla versions of the game. Im assuming this time, the Goombas are the vanilla versions of the game. SK, if you are indeed a Goomba, can you paraphrase your win conditions and flavor?

This is also a reason why I think SK is legit, but first I need to confirm this piece of information.

[Gorrad]

Not only do I confirm Ace's statement about not being able to use items (and our PMs saying as such), but I'm also fairly sure that SK's claim is faker than WMDs for other reasons- specifically, that I'm about 80% sure that Goombas are NOT vanilla, or at least not the only vanillas.

Unvote, Vote: Shadow Knight

[ZEEnon]

True. You don't find much Gooba running around in Bowser's Castle.

[qwints]

By my count we're back at L-2 in visible votes.

Still gonna try to save SK, tajo?

[ZEEnon]

I have a feeling that Shadow Knight is sided with the Bowser.
Can everyone on his wagon justify their vote?

[ortolan]

tajo- I do not wish to tie up my potential night action sending you a letter. Please ask me another question in-thread, or lay off. It is not my fault that both questions that have been asked of me have had no thought put into them and as a result one or two people seem to be suggesting I may not have the item descriptions.

For reference, who feels I need to answer another question (because it seems to mainly be tajo still going on about it.)?

If you are town also I don't see why it's desirable to waste one of your coins.

Also, re: the wincon stuff- did the scum get told the town wincon in the last mushroom kingdom game?

[semioldguy]

TOLD YOU

NOT

TO ADDRESS THIS QUESTION UNLESS YOU ARE

SK. YOU JUST JUMPED UP

SEVERELY

ON MY SCUM METER. You do realize that my question COULD HAVE CONFIRMED SK AS SCUM, but you RUINED IT. *fume* way to go, ZEEnon.

How is this:

Also I don't see why a role which can't buy items would need to be having coins. Goombas don't have hands/arms as far as I've ever known, so whether he is in a bubble or not I don't see how he is holding on to that coin from a flavor standpoint.

An answer to this:

My role stresses that I become a normal goomba once my bubble is broken. I assume that means I gain the ability to buy items.

What is the reason your role gives specifically for not being able to buy items?

???

That seriously makes no sense why you would think that... where in my post am I saying "the reason [his] role gives specifically for not being able to buy items"? I don't see where I am answering the reason his role gives for not being able to buy items... can you please point it out to me?

[ortolan]

Depending on ShadowKnight's flip, tajo's reactions should be noted.

Take in count that scum got fakeclaims in the another game.

Until now, Im leaning to believe the claim for flavor reasons.

What makes you think scum wouldn't have fake claims in this game. If that's the case, why would flavor clear SK?

I think scum have fakeclaims in this game also. When did I say they didnt?

And I think the flavor clears SK. It feels a belieavable role (almost a generic role with protection) and not one coming from a fakeclaim, since those usually are a little more elaborate.

Here he suggests that because the flavour is

not

overly complex, he is inclined to believe the fakeclaim.

I am a bubble goomba.
I will survive the first kill an invader hits me with, but it will pop my bubble and make me a normal goomba.
Certain attacks* will kill me outright
I have 1 coin.
I am unable to buy items.
Night 4 I "land" and my bubble pops regardless.

Then, subsequently, when SK comes up with a far more elaborate fake-claim, tajo continues with the line that he is not suspicious.

SK: which attacks kill you outright and did you find this out from your role pm or from further discussions/questions to the mod about your role?

I also disapprove of tajo attempting to redirect votes to another player as a result, solely because of their "lurking" (on day one).

[Shadow Knight]

@Ortolan- I'm not claiming what attacks kill me outright simply because you want to know.

@Tajo- to loosely paraphrase my win condition, I win when all invaders are dead.

[Shadow Knight]

@Ace- were you seriously thinking that my PM said "you can't buy items because you have no arms"? I'm sure Law took a *tiny* bit of artistic license. (I'll be somewhat annoyed if I find out I have a coin and *still* can't buy items after the bubble pops.)

[caf19]

ort has done enough to justify his survival now.

SK isn't entirely incriminated by Ace and Gorrad's convictions since the possibitilty of him telling the truth is still there. On the other hand, his defences do have something of a 'retrospective' feel to them. After being called out for slipping, he just goes 'oh, um, I was only assuming that', something he didn't mention before, and continues on...

So, I still think Looker is the best choice, but SK probably isn't a bad one either. Given Looker's out-of-the-blue unvote of SK, there's a chance they could both be scum.

[ortolan]

@Ortolan- I'm not claiming what attacks kill me outright simply because you want to know.

If you think it is anti-town to reveal that in case of instructing scum how to kill similar roles to your own (and in fact are actually town), then fair enough.

Otherwise though, I can't see why you wouldn't answer. You are going to die anyway...

[Shadow Knight]

If scum have to waste 2 kills on me then that's one townie saved. I plan to keep quiet about when I'm targetted the first time and what I gain (if anything) from it. I doubt there is a similar role to mine as I'll be more than a little pissed that they didn't come forward and back me up sooner.

[ortolan]

the noose cares not for your claimed "protection"

[Shadow Knight]

Threaten if you want. I've claimed. I can't do any more than that.

[populartajo]

ort has done enough to justify his survival now.

SK isn't entirely incriminated by Ace and Gorrad's convictions since the possibitilty of him telling the truth is still there. On the other hand, his defences do have something of a 'retrospective' feel to them. After being called out for slipping, he just goes 'oh, um, I was only assuming that', something he didn't mention before, and continues on...

So, I still think Looker is the best choice, but SK probably isn't a bad one either. Given Looker's out-of-the-blue unvote of SK, there's a chance they could both be scum.

I tend to agree with the post.

Look, I really dont know what to make of SK. My gut tells me he is telling the truth with his claim. When I said scum had elaborate claims I meant that usually scum dont claim a simple role like goomba in a bubble. A reason I thought why this claim could be legit is cuz I tought that the vanilla version of this game were Goombas. For reference, in the other game, scum had fakeclaims like Dr. Mario and at the beginning they didnt know that the Toads were the vanillas of the game. However, if Goombas arent the vanillas of the game, then who are the vanillas of this game?

But yeah, all the people asking for SK lynch cant be all scum and I agree there is something fishy with his claim. So there is not much I can do now.

The only thing I want is that I definitely want Looker to comment on this before SK is lynched.

[populartajo]

@Ortolan- I'm not claiming what attacks kill me outright simply because you want to know.

@Tajo- to loosely paraphrase my win condition, I win when all invaders are dead.

Paraphrase all your flavor.

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote: Sk

We can't use items.