Open 142: True Love (Game Over) before 784

[Kmd4390]

Kirroha, who specifically do you find suspicious right now and why?

[kirroha]

Um, actually... Has ZazieR posted even once yet? I can't find any posts of his.

[Kmd4390]

Um, actually... Has ZazieR posted even once yet? I can't find any posts of

hers

.

She's V/LA for a day or two. She isn't posting on MS at all for most of yesterday and all of today so far.

[ZazieR]

Vote Hohum

I have three lovers in this game Therefore I can't be town, I can't be scum, so I must be a third party role.
As this isn't stated as role, the mod is obvious lying. Therfore he's scum! Bandwagon time!

If not allowed,

Vote Kmd

Will read the other posts later as I just started posting again.

[Kmd4390]

Vote Kmd

OMG SCHTICK VOTE

[Kmd4390]

Also, the mod doesn't require unvotes. Your vote is on me.

[ZazieR]

Schtick vote?

And my vote will only count if the mod doesn't count his vote...

Besides, depending on what I've missed, my vote might change soon.


EDIT

Vote hohum

I counted this as an unvote of KMD. If that was not your intention please let me know.

[Kmd4390]

Schtick vote?

Korts attacked my vote on you because I do it in every game which gives no info.

[ZazieR]

Korts is just jealous

But that means that battle of the lovers has already started, while I wasn't even here ! Did DDD already join the fun?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Korts is just jealous

But that means that battle of the lovers has already started, while I wasn't even here ! Did DDD already join the fun?

Hey baby, how are you doing?

~~~

Anyways, sonicchaos in post 29 posts obvious and useless information, "so if somebody is found scum, then their lover cannot be sucm also." But the only way we get confirmed scum is by lynching them at which point their lover suicides so we'd know alignment even if the mod hadn't provided that information. Furthermore, there's the issue of his not so random "random" vote in that post. Several early things not to like.

Kirroha also seems happy to post obvious things, but without the content to back it up. Her post 49 is basically just providing all the possible scum pairings without even attempting any preliminary analysis. Again, it looks busy, but it isn't really helpful to the town.

[Percy]

I voted Korts and not kmd because
1. From what Ive heard, kmd does it every game, so I don't see how it could be considered a scumtell, unless kmd was mafia every time it happened.
2. I don't want to die day 1.

1. Can I therefore interpret your statement as "Kmd shouldn't be voted for based on that scumtell, therefore Korts is voting him for scummy reasons"?
2. How is this relevant, at all, to the question that I posed? Why on earth does voting for Korts help you to stay alive today?

Yeah, I read it. But aren't "knee-jerk" cases the thing that leads to "sensible cases"? Also, isn't a knee-jerk vote better than random voting?

Can a "knee-jerk" case lead to a sensible case? Yes.
Can a "knee-jerk" case lead to a horrible case? Also yes.
I prefer for there to be some more information out there before we start attacking people for silly things. The RVS is a great way to provide this information. As I stated, the scum hate the RVS, as it's much harder to manipulate than stupid cases, especially those made by or against bad players.

My vote will give info when I feel there is info to give.

What the hell does this even mean? Are you saying that you won't participate in the RVS? If so, why vote at all? Or are you saying that you agree with my position, except you've just got a placeholder vote?

BTW note that Percy's post took a middle of the road stance on every issue that was brought up. On the fence is a good spot for scum to be enjoying the view from.

Sorry Korts, but this is crap. I didn't take a strong view on any issue, because I don't have enough information to take a strong view (which includes my lack of serious voting). Instead, I asked questions and stated my opinion. The fact that I didn't charge out of the gate and agree with one of you 100% on page 2 doesn't even come close to a scumtell.

I thought there was enough information that he covered that he could have voted. He could have voted me for an "anti-town" vote. He could have voted you for your reaction to it. He could have voted Sonic for voting you. He could have voted someone for lurking. Sure, non of these are reasons to lynch. But all four of these votes would have brought up some discussion and some debate. Random voting when he did really didn't.

I've already addressed why I like to random vote. Sorry that you don't like the RVS, but it's not a scumtell to like the information that the RVS brings. I'm not saying that we should never leave the RVS (and if you thought that was the case then you are a moron); additionally, random voting doesn't proclude me from commenting on issues that develop and cases that other people construct. That is what provokes debate and discussion, not someone's name in bold.

And on a second read, I see a lot of IIOA in that post of Percy's that you mentioned. It looks like he's just recapping the game and not really adding anything to it.

Nice try. I actually take time to analyse both your position and Korts' vote, as well as calling out sonicchaos on his non-random "random" vote. Calling it IIoA is ridiculous.

Kirroha also seems happy to post obvious things, but without the content to back it up. Her post 49 is basically just providing all the possible scum pairings without even attempting any preliminary analysis. Again, it looks busy, but it isn't really helpful to the town.

QFT. I think the game mechanics will come into play later in the day, and we don't need to start analysing pairings just yet.

However, I will note that if someone is pushing hard for their lover's lynch, then it's a good indication of their towniness. There's WIFOM involved, but it's also very dangerous for the scum to engage in this kind of attack as a bluff.

@kirroha: You didn't answer Kmd's question. Please do so.

I also find it interesting that Kmd was satisfied with kirroha's "pick someone who hasn't posted, say their name and then say nothing about the game" approach to his question.

@Kmd: What is your opinion of ZazieR's play so far?

[hohum]

Official Vote Count:

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

sonicchaos1993(1) Dobonair Danny DiPietro
kirroha(0)
MiteyMouse(2) Kmd4390, Korts
Percy(1) MiteyMouse
Debonair Danny DiPietro(1), Percy
Korts(1) sonicchaos1993
ZazieR(0)
Kmd4390(0)

Not Voting: ZazieR, kirroah

[sonicchaos1993]

Because kmd is my lover, so if kmd dies, I die.

[kirroha]

Mod: My vote is currently on Sonicchaos.

Corrected. Sorry about that

Okay, I'll try... doing my Maths... and typing this... at the same time... ze.

The point of listing out all the possible pairings has something to do with psychology. At first, it may seem that there are too many pairings for us to even think about analyzing pairings, but once I list them out you all might be able to see that it's a plausible idea and that there are not that many possible scum pairings after all.

Still, if you all believe that I need to address the people first instead of pairings, I'll do that for now, until we get any further information.

MiteyMouse

- I know I might be biased towards my sibling/lover/platonicfriend/whatever, but I guess this point might need to be addressed. Okay, since Mitey is my lover, I don't want her to get lynched, but I think it's kinda weird that she only random voted after Kmd said "Why no vote?" It seems to be some kind of "trying-to-fit-in" kind... Still, I don't really think she's scum, but it might be due to my biasness.

Korts

: Okay, first I find it pretty weird that he makes such a big fuss out of Kmd's "gimmick". Firstly, he's just voting for someone in the RVS - everyone is voting anyway, so why just sift Kmd out? After all, all the votes in the RVS aren't very useful, and I believe that Kmd was just having fun. Secondly, if Kmd really does that every game, and it is anti-town, I don't see how that fits unless Kmd turns out to be scum in every game he's ever played in where he had voted ZazieR. It seems to me now that there are a few possibilities:

1) Korts was also having fun.
2) Korts just desperately wanted to find some clue to cling on to. (Then again, why the desperation?)
3) Korts and Kmd are scumbuddies and did this early on in the game as distancing.

and looking at it town/scum-wise...

1) Korts and Kmd are both town. I believe that this might be the most likely. Since I don't really know much about Korts's personality, he might just be the type who tries to eye every single little thing. Still, I don't think we should point out every letter in the RVS stage, since that will just provide a perfect wagon for the scum to push to a lynch.
2) Korts is town, Kmd is scum. There is a possibility that this is true, but here I don't think Korts's 'argument' really fits in, since he said Kmd does it every game. Still, it's a possibility.
3) Korts is scum, Kmd is town. From past experiences, I think that scum would like to create a huge wagon on a townie early in the game by exaggerating their movements to scummier than they already are, and in such a setup where every lynch is extremely crucial, I think this is a possibility worth considering.
4) Korts and Kmd are both scum. This is also likely, but very risky. Korts is making himself look rather scummy by doing this, and Kmd might be attracting unwanted attention to himself. Still, if it ended up working, it would be the perfect distancing tactic.

Thus, though I find possibility 3) and 4) quite likely, 1) is still the most likely for me, so I won't vote or FoS him. Still, IGMEOY, Korts, Kmd.

I WOULD LIKE OTHER PEOPLE TO CHIME IN NOW

Over here, this quote can be inferred two ways:

1) He is exasperated at the inactivity, thus he wants others to come in and contribute. This is pro-town.
2) He wants others to come in and help him in his debate against Kmd over a small matter. This is rather anti-town, but not absolutely.

So Korts: What were you referring to when you said that?

Kmd

: Actually, most I've said about him is already in the Korts section. I can't really tell much about him from the first page, since if he's town, it's perfectly fine to argue against Korts's flawed logic. If he was scum, he would also argue against Korts's flawed logic, but with a hint of desperation at such an early suspicion. If both Kmd and Korts are scum... well, they would have probably planned the conversation beforehand and we won't be able to infer anything.

sonicchaos1993

: After reading through a few of his posts, he seems to be giving off a pro-town vibe, thus for now I will

Unvote soni

. I will explain why.

I don't see all that much right now. Kmd and Korts seem to be making a big deal about the schtick vote.

Personally, I think we should be looking out for people who are really trying to get a lynch. Since the mafia's only weapon is the lynch, then the mafia members will most likely be trying to lynch whenever they can. Also, the setup as said in the Queue said that there would be 3 town/town pairs and 2 town/scum pairs, so if somebody is found scum, then their lover cannot be sucm also.

He tries to break up the fight between Korts and Kmd. Here there are also a few possibilities:

1) He's breaking up the fight because he knows well that it makes absolutely no sense. Pro-town and most likely, and this is why I unvoted him.
2) He is Korts's scumbuddy, and is trying to defend him from being lynched. Also, he voted Korts later on as distancing. This possibility doesn't make much sense, as if he's trying to break up the fight and protect Korts, his post won't have a sort-of "Korts, are you scum?" kind of feel to it.
3) He is scum while Korts and Kmd are Town, and since he's Kmd's lover, he doesn't want Kmd to get lynched, as it would result in his own death, and he doesn't want that. I also think this possibility is not very possible in this situation, as Kmd does not seem to be suspicious to anyone, and it is more likely for Korts to be suspected for his flawed logic.

These are the only possibilities, and 2) and 3)'s possibilities are very slim, so that's why I find him quite pro-town.

Oh and also:

@hohum: kirroah voted me.

Okay, Kirroha is spelt wrongly, but anyways...

He tells the mod about a mistake on his vote. If he were scum, there is absolutely no benefit in doing something like this, knowing that it most probably won't be noticed and would just increase his vote count by 1. He could always pretend not to see my vote, and still pass off as town. But he pointed out the vote. Either he is scum with a ridiculously high level of sportsmanship or town.

2. I don't want to die day 1.

He's honest. I doubt scum would like to reveal the fact that they don't want to die.

Percy

: To me, Percy is giving the greatest town vibe of all players present. Those long posts that he had made all perfectly explains his own opinions and who he finds scummy. It seems to me the moment I read - "His conscience is clean. He is not afraid of looking scummy or other people picking on his posts, because he knows he isn't scum." It just gives me that kind of feeling. Every post he had made seems to have all his thoughts well poured into them, without hiding anything. He just seems to want to try his very best to help the town. You all might think that my text here seems very cheesy, but that's seriously the feeling that I get from reading Percy's posts. No scumfeel at all. If he really turns out to be scum, I'll be very shocked.


... Yikes, my parents are returning home in a few minutes. I'll just summarize it for now; I'll post another one about the other players later.

So far I've spoken up about MiteyMouse, Korts, Kmd, sonicchaos, and Percy.

If I have to rank them according to scummy-> least scummy, it would be Korts, Kmd, Mitey, sonicchaos, Percy.

I haven't spoken about the DDD/ZazieR lover pairing yet, so I'll do it later.

[kirroha]

Um, Mod - Now I've unvoted soni. In the previous post.

[Korts]

Sorry Korts, but this is crap. I didn't take a strong view on any issue, because I don't have enough information to take a strong view (which includes my lack of serious voting). Instead, I asked questions and stated my opinion. The fact that I didn't charge out of the gate and agree with one of you 100% on page 2 doesn't even come close to a scumtell.

I didn't ask for your agreement out of the gate; but if exaggeration is necessary somewhere, it is most definitely in the early game. You need to take the most definitive stance when there is very little to go on, otherwise the game will flounder in uncertainty--which helps the scum.

MiteyMouse- I know I might be biased towards my sibling/lover/platonicfriend/whatever, but I guess this point might need to be addressed. Okay, since Mitey is my lover, I don't want her to get lynched, but I think it's kinda weird that she only random voted after Kmd said "Why no vote?" It seems to be some kind of "trying-to-fit-in" kind... Still, I don't really think she's scum, but it might be due to my biasness.

This is so wishy washy. And panicky. The first sentence reeks especially since I explained how every town player should naturally be biased

against

their lover.

To be fair, I was only trying to start a wagon on Mitey, but voting kirroha after this is a much better option.

unvote, vote: kirroha

bandwagon gogogo

Thus, though I find possibility 3) and 4) quite likely, 1) is still the most likely for me, so I won't vote or FoS him. Still, IGMEOY, Korts, Kmd.

wishy washy buddy uppy

Over here, this quote can be inferred two ways:

1) He is exasperated at the inactivity, thus he wants others to come in and contribute. This is pro-town.
2) He wants others to come in and help him in his debate against Kmd over a small matter. This is rather anti-town, but not absolutely.

So Korts: What were you referring to when you said that?

I was referring to the fact that Kmd and I were arguing on a nearly irrelevant point between ourselves and everyone else was sitting it out without a single comment.

He tells the mod about a mistake on his vote. If he were scum, there is absolutely no benefit in doing something like this, knowing that it most probably won't be noticed and would just increase his vote count by 1. He could always pretend not to see my vote, and still pass off as town. But he pointed out the vote. Either he is scum with a ridiculously high level of sportsmanship or town.

[...]

He's honest. I doubt scum would like to reveal the fact that they don't want to die.

Gives waaay too much credit to sonic.

Can we lynch the scum soonish?

[ZazieR]

Ok, first the schtick vote argument. In both of our cases it's a null tell. I most of the time vote someone I know. As Kevin is stalking me, it's no wonder he gets a lot of random votes from me. Apparently, the same goes for Kevin.
As for it being anti-town, I disagree. To me, it's just a vote. Though I wonder, why would it have been constructive if he had for example random voted you (

Korts

)

P.S. Korts, you don't have to be jealous Rofl has a reason to be jealous though, as you apparently found a new lover Does he know?

[ZazieR]

EBWOP
Korts, why didn't you point this out with my vote?

[ZazieR]

Vote Percy

For meta reasons.

[ZazieR]

To clarify: his post 30 is a good case of only information and not taking a stance. This was not the case in the games I've seen him as town (open 98 and twice in mafia 87). This however was the case in mini 751 (Suzumiya Haruhi Mafia modded by Tar).

[ZazieR]

it produces no information for the town if you were to vote for Zazier whether you're scum with her, scum without her, or town. Thus Kmd's first vote was not used to produce information, it was simply so that Kmd could be seen to be voting.

So, if I as third party role would vote Korts, what would that give as information?
And if Kevin would vote DDD as scum, what would that give as information?

I don't see how a random vote gives information, so please explain.

Korts has described it as anti-town, when I would say it's just not pro-town. Korts has voted Kmd as a result of this exchange. I believe this situation can be (mostly) resolved when Kmd votes for someone else; or, he could stubbornly cling to his vote on Zazier, and if he decides to do so, I'd like to hear more detailed reasons as to why this will produce good info for the town.

So you think someone isn't producing info for the town, and therefore you vote someone random? Makes lots of sense...

[ZazieR]

Post 37

You mean, the idea that came from Open 133? (if I'm correct) The thing is, this would work in a normal lovers set-up as one scum lynch will mean a win for the town. However, in this case, scum can buss. So I don't think it will work.

[ZazieR]

Sorry Korts, but this is crap. I didn't take a strong view on any issue, because I don't have enough information to take a strong view (which includes my lack of serious voting). Instead, I asked questions and stated my opinion. The fact that I didn't charge out of the gate and agree with one of you 100% on page 2 doesn't even come close to a scumtell.

You may have given your opinion, but you were still on the fence. You said Kmd's vote was not pro-town. That to me, is repeating Korts words, but only nicer. You clearly did not agree with Kevin's vote, yet you're saying that if he changes his vote, all will be forgiven. That's clearly not taking a stance.

However, I will note that if someone is pushing hard for their lover's lynch, then it's a good indication of their towniness. There's WIFOM involved, but it's also very dangerous for the scum to engage in this kind of attack as a bluff.

You've been here once (open 98). And this time, you (and Korts as well) are giving 'advice' to the scum. This makes lots of sense...

That's all I have to say about this post, for now.

[ZazieR]

Kirroha's post is really fence sitting. By claiming each option, she can easily explain why she changed her mind if she changes her mind. I see this more an action for scum to do.
Also, there's some WIFOM invloved. Especially in the part of Soccer.

Percy: To me, Percy is giving the greatest town vibe of all players present. Those long posts that he had made all perfectly explains his own opinions and who he finds scummy. It seems to me the moment I read - "His conscience is clean. He is not afraid of looking scummy or other people picking on his posts, because he knows he isn't scum." It just gives me that kind of feeling. Every post he had made seems to have all his thoughts well poured into them, without hiding anything. He just seems to want to try his very best to help the town. You all might think that my text here seems very cheesy, but that's seriously the feeling that I get from reading Percy's posts. No scumfeel at all. If he really turns out to be scum, I'll be very shocked.

ORLY? Then who does he see as scummy? Because so far, he's asked questions about nit picky things (Hypocrite?) has given his opinion of the Kmd - Korts discussion and has defended himself against the accusations from Kevin and Korts. I don't see anything where he tells us who he thinks is scummy. So please tell.

[ZazieR]

11. Once the game is over I will post links to each QT thread. If you have an issue with this please let me know.

DDD? Did you know about this? Perhaps we should ask the mod if he won't show the other players what we have talked about for the obvious things written in it...
Especially for those who aren't 'adults' yet

Jail bait?

Well, you should actually think about something else
(HINT: our convo yesterday)

Hey

baby

, how are you doing?

*shrug*