Mini 774: Case Closed Mafia (One Truth Prevails!)

[Lindisfarne]

millar, what are your thoughts on the argument of lynching fire, even if he's town?

Would you prefer a no lynch over lynching him, if no other strong suspects arise?

[Inquisitor Vulcan Skorn]

Hey, sorry, I'm still here. School has been really hectic lately, but tomorrow is my last day of classes. I'm still reading up, amongst last minute assignments I'm given. I'll have a real post up soon.

[alexhans]

@Lindis: Yeah... but he never said I was scummy... he said:
SC is scum (and votes)
Alexhans is scum.
That looks pretty sure of himself to not know what to accuse me of later. And when I question him he votes me for misrep??? Come on... I think I'm entitled to require some content that expresses his reasons for his actions.

but I know that badgering him about it or his attitude won't speed things up at all

whatever. I want explanations.

[Firestarter]

V/LA till Sunday guys.

[StrangerCoug]

The day before deadline. OK...

[alexhans]

He is still first in the votecount if I'm not mistaken so it wouldn't be a good tactic if he were scum... However, your attempt to make him look scummy for just anything is noted.

[StrangerCoug]

I wasn't trying to paint him as scummy with that comment, but neither do I want him hammered before his return. He's the only person likely to be lynched at this point given the close deadline.

[alexhans]

Yes... but you fail to say so...

You just said

The day before deadline. OK...

and leave us to imagine what we want... Why don't you try to be a bit more clear as to the purpose of your sentences?

[StrangerCoug]

Will do. I'm sold by the Firestarter case (specifically with his hypocrisy), so if I can't rack up enough votes for Sajin I'll deal with him later and just vote FS.

[Korlash]

Where did I say we need to do a list at the end of the game? If I'm not mistaken, I was asking for a list for today. I stated my reasoning why earlier in this post.

I'm almost certain I meant end of day not end game. I appologize for that.

WAIT.

Sharing info is fine?

Sharing that info before night is stupid?

That same info, which you said before was fine, helps us in no way? Then why share it period. Your tactic sounds like everyone running around aimlessly with no communication between town. You don't want to share info, your post made that very clear. That is stupid.

"sharing info RIGHT before the night..." There are certain times when missing a single word cahnges everything. And I said "sharing info" is fine in general, where-as this one particular case of sharing info is not. I don't want to share info of a certain kind at a certain point. I'm a little tired of people like you making this accusation. That is a blatant misrepresentation of what I have said and is borderline twisting my words intentionally. I have corrected this false accusation many times already and I'm tired of people ignoring that. I'll do it one more time in a new and inovative way!

Take Rights of flourishing. It's a magic card that allows each player to play one additional land each turn AND draw one additional card as well. When you play it you gain the advantage on the land drop, providing you have one, however you allow your opponent to gain the early advantage of the draw because he will draw before you will.

Much like this, sharing info right before night gives us the small term effect of gaining any info out of it immediately if any is there. However the scum will gain the early advatage of using those lists to determine their nightkill AND to help set up tomorrow's and future lynches. During night we as town cannot discuss these lists, so they do us no good to say them right before going to night. Giving our lists at the end of the day has no added benefit for the town as giving them at the begining of the next day, but it does give advantages to the scum, and so it's obvious we shouldn't give them at the end of the day but at the start. I am in no way against sharing info, I'm against sharing info at a bad time making that info not only a danger tot he town but also partially worthless.

I appologize for anyone who doesn't get my magic reference but i don't care. I'm tired of this mis-rep constantly returning against me regardless of how I explain it so... yeah...

read earlier in this post, I said why I feel a list is helpful for catching scum. If you can't utilize that to find scum tells, then fine, I can't fault you if you play a different way than I; but I try to, you know, utilize as much information as possible to determine who is scum and who isn't.

You keep missing I too find lists helpful, my way is the exact same as yours only givin at a different time to maximise the usefulness of the lists. A list at the end of one day and at the start of the next both have roughly the same chance of finding scum. The only difference is my way is safer and has less risk.

Big whoop. I told you how a list can be used to find scumtells, depending on the timing. Threatening me with "anti-town" bs doesn't scare me in the slightest. If you think I'm scummy, vote.

That's a little odd to resort to daring me to call you scum. Am I to take it you mistook that statement as me calling you anti-town? Because that was not my intention. And I do not recall you arguing the timing issue because that has been my main point. Why is claiming at the end of a day better then at the begining again?

What? You've gone on about how its this HORRIBLE idea to post at the end of d1, and now you're admitting that it can have higher results of catching scum as well?

So in a nutshell, you're admitting its usefulness, but your fear of giving scum information is going to hold back gathering more evidence for town?

You're constant missing of words in my posts is giving me strange feelings about you. I said in certain situations you're would work better then mine. Let me give you a hypothetical.

1) We claim lists day one and a scum is stupid enough to out himself clearly. Your way is obviously better as it let us catch this scum a full day earlyier then mine would have.

2) A scum makes his list at the start of day 2. The night delay has caused his memory of this game to become a little fuzy making him slip up on his list. My way is obviously better as the elay caused the scum to slip up, where-as making it day 1 would have had his mind clear and fresh.

What are the chances of either of the above? The probability of both relys on the scum, meaning I don't put much bank in it. There are also certain scumtells your way is more likely to out while there are other tells mine are more likely to out. If te scum are more prone to making the tells yours show, then yours is obviously better.

We can argue this all you want. The only times your way is ever better then mine is in hypotheticals where the scum do a particular thing. Because I'm not willing to put any faith in that, i have to throw out your idea and go with mine which has non-hypotheticals in it's favor as well as it's own hypotheticals.

I see nothing scum-like in his claim, and find it believable, I DO agree with your point on him being a wasted investigation however. A wagon can be formed on anyone. We shouldn't lynch you now because you could have a wagon later on you (which can happen) I find that a moot point. Thank you for pointing out your reasoning more though.

The fact he claimed to have an english name yet mentioned a japanese name for Jimmy? The fact his flavor neglects his character's skills and focus's on his Husband and son instead? Forgive me for not seeing it likely a themed role would be "You're only here because of other people. You yourself are useless without them." And lets not forget the fact he admitted to pulling his claim off of a wiki. Why? He had his role in a pm, why resort to pulling it off another sorce of info?

[Battousai]

He is still first in the votecount if I'm not mistaken so it wouldn't be a good tactic if he were scum... However, your attempt to make him look scummy for just anything is noted.

Your attempt to make him look townie for just anything is noted.

But seriously, WIFOM completely. In fact scum could skip out while ahead to dodge any last minute questions and discussion, and to leave their vote on someone without having to explain why it was kept to deadline. I'm pretty sure it is a nulltell.

[Kairyuu]

I am finally free! I'm back and reading. I'm not sure if I can get a post out today, but when I do it will be full of nice shiny arguments and cases on all of you scummy people. Cheers!

[alexhans]

He is still first in the votecount if I'm not mistaken so it wouldn't be a good tactic if he were scum... However, your attempt to make him look scummy for just anything is noted.

Your attempt to make him look townie for just anything is noted.

But seriously, WIFOM completely. In fact scum could skip out while ahead to dodge any last minute questions and discussion, and to leave their vote on someone without having to explain why it was kept to deadline. I'm pretty sure it is a nulltell.

Guess I'm used to people lynching whoever answers less near deadline... especially if they have been so much in the spotlight.

@kor: I just wish that those who don't share are not killed tonight because that would make their info worthless.

[Sajin]

Will do. I'm sold by the Firestarter case (specifically with his hypocrisy), so if I can't rack up enough votes for Sajin I'll deal with him later and just vote FS.

I fail to see the logic in this statement when you attacked me for a very similar thing. Look who is being slightly hypocritical.

Is "racking up" votes code for bashing everyone up enough to dominate town discussion? Just curious.

I like my vote where it is, but I am willing to vote FS for today.

[alexhans]

even if youre 80 % sure he is town?

[Sajin]

20 percent=20 percent chance of killing scum.

NL=0 percent chance of killing scum.

[alexhans]

Who did ever say no lynch man? Are you more certain that SC is scum or that Fire is scum? If you think SC is scummier vote for SC regardless of how many votes Fire has... You musn't act taking others into account when voting. Vote for who you think is more scummy and no one is gonna will fault you if you give enough reasons.

[StrangerCoug]

Will do. I'm sold by the Firestarter case (specifically with his hypocrisy), so if I can't rack up enough votes for Sajin I'll deal with him later and just vote FS.

I fail to see the logic in this statement when you attacked me for a very similar thing. Look who is being slightly hypocritical.

Supporting the Firestarter case is not in and of itself scummy. It's your doing so when your percentages indicate you think he's more likely town than scum that I don't like about you (among other things that we have brought up). Seriously, you know better than to advocate a lynch you're only 20% sure of.

Is "racking up" votes code for bashing everyone up enough to dominate town discussion? Just curious.

Hell no. By racking up votes on somebody, I mean convincing enough people to vote for that person to make him or her a viable lynch. Since when have I been bashing everybody or suggesting that I may do so?

[Sajin]

Who did ever say no lynch man? Are you more certain that SC is scum or that Fire is scum? If you think SC is scummier vote for SC regardless of how many votes Fire has... You musn't act taking others into account when voting. Vote for who you think is more scummy and no one is gonna will fault you if you give enough reasons.

the deadline with many of us split in votes means a NL may be imminent. I am willing to switch my vote instead of forcing a nl to occur.

[StrangerCoug]

Actually, Sajin, the rules allow for deadline lynches here. Right now Firestarter is the vote leader, so if we're all stuck here Firestarter is still going to swing.

Happy scumday mod!

[Gorrad]

Thanks! Due to not wanting another replacement I'm giving Madeofphail a bit of lee time.

[madeofphail]

Mod: Would It be alright to ask for a running votecount on this page?

Sorry, I have AP Exams this week, so I'm a bit swamped

[Kairyuu]

Alright alexhans, here's your case.

I'm on page 6 and already afraid that there is gonna be a smart myslinch regarding Fire. I'm pretty positive that there is scum on that waggon. I'm not waiting till I finish my reading to tell you this because I'm afraid someone might hammer.

DONT DARE HAMMER!!!

If you do... I'll pursue you tomorrow till you're lynched...

Leave us replacements time to post and get answered.

If Fire is scum, then this is a damning post for sure. Also, threats of pressure are stupid, because if you threaten scum they could just kill you and be done with it. This sounds like you are looking for an excuse to go after anyone who ends the Day before you've set up your false connections.

Yeah... right. You are scared of me... If you must know... I'm really suspicious of you SC so start imagining what you're going to say when I come down on you.

This is totally OMGUS. SC questions you, so you say you're suspicious of him? Pfftt.

Your whole pushing both cases without commiting and trying to follow the trend of Fire without argumenting is gonna be hard to explain.

This may be a valid point. When I get to SC, if this holds then this may count in your favor.

You assumed that miller would be best to have around? (with all his pro town actions? [/sarcasm])

millar has played well. I have a pretty decent town read on him. So yeah, SC is right here. millar>Firestarter.

You know replacements are scum's worst enemy right? (unless they're scum, of course)

This is bullshit. Are you seriously trying to defend yourself with the fact that you're a replacement? You are at your own skill level regardless of whether you start a game or replace in.

So... Fosing me before I can question you is not gonna work. I already got you in my sight.

Overdefensive/OMGUS much?

Notice the afraid? You're stretching. I never said he was town.

I just had that fear

.

Thank you for confirming SC's point in the process of denying it.

A quicklynch can be disastrous and after your vote on page 6 it sure seemed going that way. Fosing me for the first thing I write? Is it because you know I've seen you as scum and think I may tunnelvission you or something?

You really seem to have your hackles up here. There is no reason to get so antsy over a simple FOS.

Yeah. I replaced you as scum therefore I know a bit of your thoughts processes. And maybe that would lead you to think I'm gonna suspect you. Anyway, I don't think I'm gonna pull meta on you. I should study more cases were you're town first.

What is the point of this statement? He suspected you for valid reasons and now you're claiming he's afraid of you? Pffft.

Wow... Usually what scum says when they don't know how to push a quicklynch when not every player is playing. I haven't posted my notes in 24 hs and you are already calling for a hammer? Aren't you a little bit interested in what I might have to say?

This reads as "OMG don't lynch my scumbuddy before I get a chance to shift the wagon!"

Patience. Content IS coming. There's no need to rush the vote if you're town. Scum are the only ones interested in keeping content talk to a minimum... Be pro-town.

Please note how much of a complete hypocrite you are. You were doing the EXACT SAME THING that I've been doing, and you have the nerve to call me out for it? PFFFTTT!!

And then you make, what, is that a case? On who? You pretty much rail on everyone voting Fire, but only accuse SC of being scummy, and for crap reasons. I'm liking Fire+alexhans scum and SC town more and more here.

Don't worry about me being anti town

What. The. Hell.

Now we get to your "long post," which is allll over the place. There is no cohesive argument in there. It's pretty much just you trying to fling as much crap on as many people as you can. Possibly trying to see what sticks so you can press further.

A few more posts chock full of crap slinging and buddying to batt and we get to the point where I got here. From there on I've said what I needed to say on you.

Also, note that you seem to have a problem with my attacking SC, even though YOU were all over him for most of the game. Pot kettle much?

Case enough for you?

@all: Based on observations from this post, I think that alexhans implicates Firestarter as scum, and since deadline lynch is almost assuredly going to be Fire, simply due to deadline, I will

unvote

vote: Firestarter

alexhans scum for tomorrow kthxbai

[StrangerCoug]

Minor FoS: Kairyuu

since that last sentence reeks a little of lining up lynches. Good case on alexhans, though.

And screw what I said in post #556. I think a number of us agree that Firestarter is probably scum, and it's better to be proactive than wait for Godot. I already said I'm sold, so I'll

unvote Sajin

and

vote Firestarter

. That's L-2 if I'm not mistaken.

Remember, Sajin: We will discuss this so-called "case" you have on me again.

[Sajin]

My case is mostly based on your reactions to my vote. So I am happy to discuss at any later date.